Brass mold problems.

[nfg]

Anyone have any problems with using alloys other than WW in Brass molds...such as mixed Linotype or other high Tin alloys? I want a Brass mold for a 20 ga/0.625, 700-800 gr truncated cone bullet but got scared off with the possiblity of the Tin soldering to the Brass mold if it was overheated.

Anyone use Brass molds and not have any problems?

Thanks

[Dave C.]

Clean your new mold. Bring it up to casting temp with WW.
Let it cool. Do this a few times and you will grow a native oxide on
the surface of the mold that will prevent the mold blocks from
being soldered to each other. Brass must be very clean to solder.
The chances of it happening by acident are slim to none and slim
left town.

Dave C.

[geargnasher]

+1 Dave. For best results, scrub the mould really well with hot water, dish soap, and a toothbrush, rinse, then heat cycle at least three times (Get SWMBO's permission to use her kitchen oven if nothing else, 400 degrees for 15 minutes on a dollar store cookie sheet), pull it out and let it air cool to room temp, repeat.

Gear

[nfg]

Thanks Dave, Gear...I will "bite the bullet" and order the mold. Been at this shooting game a LONG time, but I know bupkus about casting. I do shoot a lot of "store bought" 45-50 cal and I need to try something "new and different to me" now.

I have bullet caster in my area who sells his bullets at gun shows, doing the actual casting while I gather up the needed casting equipment. He has a 1/3 Lino, 1/3 WW, 1/3 hi-lead alloy mix that has maybe 1% Tin final mixture. He has cast me 50 - 700 gr truncated, 50% Mep bullets that are coming out ~665 gr, and is doing an additional 250 I will pick up at next weekend's gun show.

The as cast bullets have NO accuracy at all...jut 4-6" patterns at 15 yds. I turned 15 down to 600 gr and 70% Mep and with 6 rounds on target so far, those nose bobbed bullets are staying inside 2" at 15 yds, one 3 shot group was 7/8" CC, with just one powder and 2 different amounts at ~1800fs...not really all that good, and WAY too stout for deer/bear but OK for just beginning load development and to see how plastic cases do in the NEF USH. I may need to go to a heavier, longer bullet, larger Mep and shorter nose to get good accuracy.

He has several brass molds and says they are doing fine and produce beautiful bullets but the mold maker is adament about Tin and Brass...so the mold maker is the man, I have no reason to doubt him.

The question is...WHO do I believe and how much...both know their jobs...I've been crawiling the net for at least a year trying to learn something about this game and haven't come across any glaring comments concerning Brass, Tin, alloy mix and "soldering" problems...We newbies are a bit gunshy until we find out some things only actually nibble rather than chow down.

Thanks again

[captaint]

nfg - There a LOT of brass molds out there, especially since the last few years and I've not heard of anyone soldering one yet. I am curious about one thing. You mentioned 20ga slugs - of some sort. Why would you want them that hard?? Apologies - after reading again, apparently YOU aren't necessarily using Lino and WW's for YOUR alloy. What gear said - use the mold a while - don't overheat things and enjoy. Mike

[nfg]

There's where the confusion comes in...CNC machines have been around many years, the cost difference between Brass and AL molds makes it seem ludicrous to buy an AL mold just to save 10 bucks and 360 Brass machines so nice. The fact that Brass is heavier and holds the heat much better makes chumpchanging a few dollars seem very bad economics....but I don't know the "rest of the story" yet.

My "CasterMan" makes all kinds of sizes and weights of bullets, has easy access to Lino, WW, and other sources of lead/alloys so his mix is more for rifle and pistol bullets...he adjusts to a BHN of 16 then makes fairly large runs of ingots for consistency over time.

This 20 ga shooter is a poor mans ~80% 600 Nitro Express wannabee...a 620 HellBoy from Accurate Arms 12GaFH thread...I also rechambered a 12ga USH to handle the modified 50 BMG brass cases and 3.5" plastics. You reach the maximum hunting/comfort recoil stopping point WAY before you reach max velo with these two beasts.

I just finished loading up the buttstock and forend with lead shot and hard soldering the forearm mount, today, to keep it from shearing off...that shearing off happened to me with an NEF BC 45-70 I rechambered to 45-120. I installed a solid walnut aftermarket forearm with 1.5 lbs of added lead and the second time I fired a 500 gr midrange 45-70 the whole shebang parted company in 3 different directions...me, the rifle and the forearm.

My 12 ga weighs 14# with an aftermarket forearm and thumbhole stock and has the capacity to get over 20#, but this 20 ga only got to 11# with the factory buttstock and forearm, but I can easily hit 15# if I mill out a large oval and leave a hole for the through bolt.

Actually the bullets I've recovered from my "sandbox" and those I fired into lodgepole pine rounds have expanded to over .750" back to the first grease groove at 15 yd impact velos of 1600-~1800fs which is about the same amount of upset some of the 12ga 500-750 gr slugs I bought way back from Greg, Gardner and Precision shooting into the same mediums.

From what I'm understanding, WW or almost pure lead will probably upset more at the velo's I expect to normally shoot...1400-1700fs...lead is like firewood...close wood is good wood no matter WHAT tree it comes from...and "CasterMan's" lead is close and works.

I'm picking up WW from the junkies in town everytime I go in and I will also buy lead ingots from my "CasterMan", if and when I actually start doing my own work...I've already checked with EVERY tire shop in town and they all either have a local buyer or an outoftowner that grabs up every WW that hits the floor. I've also noticed that two of the tire shops save and reuse their WW's...the ecomony is grabbing everyone by the tail.

[turbo1889]

I have soldered a brass mold. I was using an alloy that had over 10% tin content.

Don't use anything with more then 5% tin and you will be just fine. The only reason you would be using anything with more then 5% tin anyway is if you were working with a fairly exotic alloy. There are a few exotic alloys I have mixed up with very high tin content when I was trying to figure out how to make an alloy that was extremely hard while at the same time not being brittle. And when I say extremely hard I'm talking way harder then the 16-BHN number you mentioned, more towards something in the 30-BHN range which is also known as brittle as glass territory unless you make a crazy exotic 5-part alloy using a blend of tin, copper, antimony, and arsenic added to the lead base such that you end up with something that is only a little more then half lead by the time your done. So unless you are doing something along those lines don't worry about it.

[HARRYMPOPE]

I have a few Eagans and a couple NEI's that are brass and have only used Linotype in some of them.Never had a problem in the 15 years i have had them.

George

[.30/30 Guy]

I have 3 Eagan brass molds. I am using linotype in them with no problems. The longer I use the molds the better they cast.

[shotman]

Kroil then you can use pure tin

[nfg]

Thanks all...I feel much relieved I'm not about to toss a C-note in the fire.

Problem with lead is you can't "surface" harden and keep the middle soft. In the old days I would surface harden drill bits, punches, chisels etc but keep the center softer...no brittleness and they cut well and lasted a long time.

I haven't seen many alloy "recipes" with Tin contents over ~5%, all I've seen so far run from 1 to 5%, but I think those recipes are the more average use mixes.

Shot man...expand on the Kroil thing...I use lots of Kroil, buy it by the gallon, for cleaning my better barrels and mix it in with my lub/rust preventative slick'um, and it's not bad on my bald head.:rolleyes:

What/where/ how does the Kroil work on the Brass molds?

30/30 Guy...is that straight Linotype?... and what cals/bullet weights are you casting for?

Thanks

[.30/30 Guy]

I am using what is almost straight linotype. I capture the boolits with rubber mulch and then add some lino to the remelt.

All of my brass molds are .30 caliber with weights from 160 to 177 grains.

I rotate two molds using a Pro Melt bottom pour furnace controled by a PID at 680 degrees.

[nfg]

Thanks 30/30 Guy...

What do you shoot those bullets in...bolt, lever, Schutzen...and how's the accuracy? I have several old military rifles I would like to shoot more and have been thinking about cast lead bullets. I don't have enough to do now....hahahahahahaha.

That rubber mulch use thingy sounds interesting...it's amazing what uses can be found for recycled "stuff".

[.30/30 Guy]

nfg:

Primary rifle is a model 1885 Winchester Hi-Wall rebarreled to .30/30. For 2011 I was averaging about 1 1/8" at 100 yards.

also shooting:
Remington 788 in .30/30
Savage 1899 in .30/30
Savage 219 in .30/30
Marlin 1936 in .30/30
Kessler Martini in .30/30
Merrill Sportsman single shot pistol in .30/30

[nfg]

Whooooeeeee...you LIKE the 30-30 for sure and certain!!!!!

I've had a few over the years...First a Win 94 that took my second deer and 30 odd years later an NEF what wouldn't shoot **** and finally a Marlin 336, but I turned that into a 356 Win...I keep looking for a 30-30 barrel for my Marlin switchbarrel to add to the other 3...a 356 Win, a 444 Marlin and a 458 American...or another NEF that hopefully will shoot straight.

[Dale53]

Back to the original question - tin bearing alloys and brass.

Keep the molten lead temperature and the mould temperature at reasonable levels and it will NOT be a problem.

After using iron moulds for fifty years I finally managed to solder an IRON mould. I was experimenting with dipping a large block iron single cavity precision mould in the molten metal to pre-heat it (as per the makers directions). I actually left a bit of "solder" in the cavity. The solution, after some thought, was to heat the block up and wipe the "solder" out with a piece of rough burlap.

I'll not be trying that again. The problem was not pre-heating by putting the mould in the molten metal. The problem was I got the mould entirely too hot by leaving a corner in there entirely too long. A bullet mould whether of aluminum, iron, or brass needs to be kept at around 450 degrees. The molten metal will be at around 700 degrees. That temperature difference is what allows the bullets to harden and drop from the mould. When the mould is the same temperature as the melt, THAT'S when the problem develops.

So, brass is NOT a problem unless you get the mould too hot. Don't get the mould too hot!

I have been pre-heating with a hot plate and heat the mould until it is "just not quite" as hot as need be. One or two casts and I am in business.

FWIW
Dale53

[Lloyd Smale]

I bought my first brass molds from rob applegate over 15 years ago and have never had a problem with them. Only downside is they are heavy and tend to hold heat a bit more then steal so you have to cast a little slower.

[nfg]

Thanks Dale, Lloyd.

Everywhere I read I'm finding out that "HEAT IS YOUR ENEMY, HEAT IS YOUR FRIEND"...catch 22 to the max and I'm LISTENING with big ears.

This "trying to teach and old dog new tricks" is giving me big, chartreuse spots in front of my eyes...hahahahahahaha.

I'm heading to town today to pick up a couple of electric hot plates and more lead...the local junky has a large container of "Micro" WW all 3 oz and another of 2 oz sinkers, two blocks of 4" x 4 " x 12-14" lead I can hardly pick up, a downrigger weight about 4" dia and 16" long that glued my feet to the floor, plus a container of battery clamps with steel nuts...I think 3-500 lbs of lead will keep me busy for a few years even casting 500-800 gr bullets. :shock::bigsmyl2:[smilie=w: