shopping list for a newbie

[Dakine]

Hello, I am hoping that some of you might be able to take a look and offer any suggestions on the list of stuff I'm looking at buying to get started in casting and swaging. Any thoughts on better/different brands? Any huge holes that I need to add tools for?

I am thinking on starting easy and cheaply (relatively speaking) with the .40 cal single stage die. Then after a couple months, I'd like to also make my own bullets for .223, .308, .45 and probably last on my list for now would be .338 Lapua Mag, that will be way down the road... (presumably a year or longer)

Press, I'm probably looking at either Lee or Sea Girt. Will the Lee do the job and live a long healthy productive life? or does swaging mean more pressure than normal reloading and it would chew up this press? The two presses I have now are not going to be useable for this... one is a progressive and the other is a very inexpensive Lee starter press for $30 that I use to decap all my brass before tumbling.

$94 Lee Classic Cast Press
$275 Sea Girt

Dies, CH or BT, and if BT then I'd probably want to get the XTP notch insert too

$300 -$450 depending on brand, and the XTP notch

Casting, there's other brands for sure, do they offer better features or reliability than Lee? Is the price comparable? I have been saving and tumbling my 9mm brass so I'm fine on that, but I havent done any reloading for it yet so I need at least the sizer die right? And the 2 boolit mold I thought might serve me for now, or would I be better off buying a 6 cavity mold now and call it a day?

All Lee brand tools, from Natchezss website
Lee 90009 $50 Production Pot IV
Lee 90026 $4 Lead Ladle
Lee 90029 $9.50 Ingot Mold
Lee 90464 $16.50 .356 124 gr Round Nose Double Cavity Mold (includes handles)
Lee 90548 $17.50 Carbide Sizer Die 9mm Luger

$97.50 casting

Since I need practically everything for this, my start up costs are probably a little higher than other peoples who've already been doing some of this, like the casting for example. And I could skip or delay buying all the casting equipment if I want to buy someone's finished product, but since I want to do the casting, and was actually planning on doing that before I learned anything about swaging, I figure might as well just buy my own gear and do it myself...

I think my only concerns are doing the casting safely and making sure hot lead doesn't get on anything except the bullet molds, and doing the swaging correctly and not chipping, breaking or in any other way damaging the dies or press.

Have I missed anything?

Thanks in advance for any opinions or advice!
-Dak

[SeabeeMan]

I can't speak for the swaging aspect (I'll be following this as I'm interested in getting into that myself) but I'll be the first to comment on the casting.

Are you buying alloy already in ingot form or smelted wheel weights from somebody? If so, they should drop into your lead pot and you might be able to forgo the ladle and ingot mold, unless you plan on draining the pot after each casting session.

If you are planning on smelting some other raw source of lead/alloy, DO NOT do it in your pot. The previous owner of my production pot did that and it took hours with a die grinder and torch to clean that thing out (done with a respirator and in a fume hood, of course) and get it to quit leaking. So if you are starting from wheel weights, sinkers, or something else like that, plan on a dutch oven, a camp stove or turkey fryer burner, some mini muffin pans, or some other similar things to allow you to get the stuff into usable form.

Don't forget bullet lube as well. If you are going to tumble lube, I started with the bottle of Lee Alox that came with the die. If that isn't a tumble lube mold or you had something else in mind, you will need to get set up for pan lubing or press lubing. I started off with tumble lubing the same bullets and casting with almost the same set-up, and am just now moving on to a Lyman 450 to lube my 30 cal bullets.

[Reload3006]

If a Swaging press is what your looking for then IMO the Seagirt press is the way to go. However if a Swaging/reloading press is something to consider then the Walnut hill is a fine tool that easily does both. The Lee Classic cast will accommodate a lot of swaging duties for you but if I were you I would send it to BT and have him do a linkage update on it. The frame of the Classic cast is more than adequate to swage with but the linkage is sorely lacking. I dont know much about BTs Dies but he does have a good reputation and competitive prices in comparison.
As far as casting is concerned again you get what you pay for. You can get by with the Lee stuff a lot of people do. with decent results. But most upgrade later on. Personally IMO its less expensive to hurt for a little while and pay more to start than pay a little now and a lot more later.

[Dakine]

I can't speak for the swaging aspect (I'll be following this as I'm interested in getting into that myself) but I'll be the first to comment on the casting.

Are you buying alloy already in ingot form or smelted wheel weights from somebody? If so, they should drop into your lead pot and you might be able to forgo the ladle and ingot mold, unless you plan on draining the pot after each casting session.

If you are planning on smelting some other raw source of lead/alloy, DO NOT do it in your pot. The previous owner of my production pot did that and it took hours with a die grinder and torch to clean that thing out (done with a respirator and in a fume hood, of course) and get it to quit leaking. So if you are starting from wheel weights, sinkers, or something else like that, plan on a dutch oven, a camp stove or turkey fryer burner, some mini muffin pans, or some other similar things to allow you to get the stuff into usable form.

Don't forget bullet lube as well. If you are going to tumble lube, I started with the bottle of Lee Alox that came with the die. If that isn't a tumble lube mold or you had something else in mind, you will need to get set up for pan lubing or press lubing. I started off with tumble lubing the same bullets and casting with almost the same set-up, and am just now moving on to a Lyman 450 to lube my 30 cal bullets.

Thanks Rich, that's definitely good to keep in mind, I hadn't considered running into trouble smelting lead and what the other alloys could do to my pot. I am within a few miles of a few different recycling places so my plan was to just buy some lead from them next time I bring in bottles and cans. Sounds like I need to think up a workable solution for that.

I'll look into lube as well, I'll need something else besides the case lubes I already have for running brass through sizing dies I guess...

[Dakine]

If a Swaging press is what your looking for then IMO the Seagirt press is the way to go. However if a Swaging/reloading press is something to consider then the Walnut hill is a fine tool that easily does both. The Lee Classic cast will accommodate a lot of swaging duties for you but if I were you I would send it to BT and have him do a linkage update on it. The frame of the Classic cast is more than adequate to swage with but the linkage is sorely lacking. I dont know much about BTs Dies but he does have a good reputation and competitive prices in comparison.
As far as casting is concerned again you get what you pay for. You can get by with the Lee stuff a lot of people do. with decent results. But most upgrade later on. Personally IMO its less expensive to hurt for a little while and pay more to start than pay a little now and a lot more later.

Thanks Reload3006, while I'm certainly not against throwing some work BT's way to upgrade the Lee Classic Cast, shipping a 16lb. press around and paying to do the upgrade seems like it would burn up a sizable chunk of any "savings" from buying it. Looks like Sea Girt is pulling into a strong lead.

The press just needs to be for swaging, I have a Hornady, and a buddy that I am doing reloading and other projects with has a Forster co-ax so I think this is going to be Sea Girt.

I'll look into other casting brands, are there any particular manufacturers that stand out as a superior product?

[BT Sniper]

No need to ship the press, upgrading the Lee Classic Cast is easy enough I think anyone can do it. Only takes driling a couple extra holes and volia, you get more then twice the leverage.


I have purchased atleast 6 of these presses from the Lee factory outlet store for $74 each. I wanted to have extras so I didn't have to swap dies so often. Now it seems they raised the price $22 in the last month or so. Not quite the steel of a bargin it used to be but still a very good press once modified even at the new $96 price tag.

I'm not fimilar with the sea girt press but you can never have enough power when swaging. Any decent reloading press "as is" will work well for bullets up to the 40 cal in my opinion. Above 40 cal extra leverage helps for sure by either moding a press or getting one dedicated to swaging. Might look at the CH champion press too. I haven't used one yet but there are a few here that have. I can offer the press for $270 plus actual shipping.

BT

[BT Sniper]

Lets see if I can help out a bit on your shopping list.

I like the Lee 20# bottom pore lead pot. I can't imagine using a ladel to pour the lead in the mold, I'm sure there are plenty that do but I like the bottom pore much better and I've tried the ladel technique as well.

The two cavity molds from Lee work OK but the 6 cavity are WAY BETTER! Even though you have to buy the handels once you have one set of handels they are easy to exchange with all and any of the lee 6 cavity molds. Not to mention it is A LOT faster to cast boolits this way. I casted thousands with the 2 caivity before I got the 6, now I don't know how I managed without the 6 cavity mold.

A lot of us use cheap muffin pans for lead ingots and it works perfectly, lots of info can be found on that here.

Skip the 2 caivity, ladel and 9mm sizing die IMOP. The cast boolits from a 120 grain lee 6 cavity will work perfect as is. Get the 120 grain mold for 40 cal bullets from 9mm brass! Much better results.

I offer both improved CH dies and my own custom BTSniper dies. Both work perfect.

Your lee starter press will work great for preping the brass (expanding and XTP notching if you so desire). I use the same cheap press for this task.

I did look at the RCE Sea Girt press and I got to say I think it looks like a good/great press for swaging bullets. I am positive I could set up a customer with a perfect set of dies to work in it. Probably cost about $25-$40 extra for the larger 7/8-14 threaded base punch but it looks like it might just be a perfect set up IMOP. Might even be able to attach an auto eject of some sort to it? Actually I'm 99% sure I could attach an auto eject to it.

So......

$275 RCE Sea Girt press
$300 BTSniper Improved CH 40 cal die and my universal die with case prep expanding mandrel
$100 optional XTP insert for universal die
$40 larger 7/8-14 threaded base punch
$?? Lee 20# bottom pore lead pot
$?? Lee 120 grain .356 6 cavity mold
$?? Lee handels

Then all you need is lead and 9mm brass. This looks to me like a very good way to go and looks like it would be all you need to make severial life times of 40 cal bullets from 9mm brass.

BT

p.s. matter of fact I might have to look into the sea grit press myself :)

Good shooting and swage On! Hope this helps a little.

BT

[midnight]

I am new to this money pit of swaging too. I picked up a CH swage-o-matic with a 44cal SWC die to make half jacketed bullets, just to see how it worked. I've now jumped in feet first. Richard Corbin e-mailed me today that my new Walnut Hill press ships tomorrow. I have a 22LR derim die and did a few hundred yesterday. I also have collected about 500 5.7x 28 brass & a small chop saw to shorten them. I think I will next get dies for .224 bullets & then dies to make the 30 cal jackets & bullets. Brian, what dies do I need to make jackets & bullets from the 5.7x28 brass? I do have a self-cleaning oven which hopefully will take care of annealing. Maybe copper tubing jackets are in my future too. I think BT & I will be having a few conversations soon.

Bob

[MIBULLETS]

The Sea Girt is a great press, but it can not be converted to a reloading stroke like the Walnut Hill. The ram stroke on a swaging press is shorter. So, if you plan on using reloading die type style dies like BT's or others that may not be the press for you. It is really made specifically for swaging dies that screw into the ram and not the top of the press. If you are seriously considering it, I would talk to Richard Corbin specifically about using that style of dies in it just to be sure.

If BT makes you a special base punch then it will probably work fine, It will just need to be a bit longer than the normal ones I'm guessing.

[BT Sniper]

How much space is there between the top of the ram and the top of the press with the sea girt press when the ram is at the top of the stroke?

Yep 7/8-14 base punches would not be a problem, I'm just curious how long it would have to be. What length of travel does the ram have? There are threaded shell holders that I could make work too but a threaded base punch would be just as easy.

BT

[Dakine]

Thanks BT!

So based on MIBULLETS comments about the Sea Girt, would the part that you make be caliber interchangeable for other die sets?

The Sea Girt and Walnut Hill look so similar I didn't think it would add a wrinkle, but I just went and looked at Corbin's page on his S press, and I see now that an adjustment is required to change from a 4in to a 2in stroke depending on if doing swaging or reloading.

Thanks again to all for the comments and suggestions, this is a tremendous help getting the proper kit list assembled!

[BT Sniper]

Basicaly I would make a 7/8-14 bolt with a 1/2-20tpi inner thread. Then you could simply swap the 1/2" threaded bases punches for desired caliber leaving the 7/8 bolt in the ram top. I think it might just work pretty darn slick.

What we need to know from someone that might have one is just how much grap is there between the top of the press and the bottom of the top plate when the ram is at full stroke. I would be curious to know how much travel the ram stroke has too.

BT

[Dakine]

Great! hopefully someone that has the Sea Girt will be able to post that info, but if not, I'll try to call RCE tomorrow and I'm sure they can provide it.

[Reload3006]

the seagirt is the same as the walnuthill both top and ram is 7/8-14 so you could easily make or get a reducer bushing for the ram in 7/8-14 to 1/2-20

[MIBULLETS]

I do not have a Sea Girt but I am guessing maybe it has a 3" stroke, but I would ask Richard when you talk to him. Usually the swaging stroke is half of the reloading stroke. So, for example, if my 3" guess is right, you might have to add 2 to 3" max to the punch.

This is only a guess on my part!

[midnight]

Richard told me the Sea Girt used to be a special order item but it is selling so well he has begun to stock them. My Walnut Hill ships out today so soon I will be able to report on the swaging and reloading strokes. He said he is building an even larger press called the #3 which will swage 2in BMG bullets. He should have them ready by July sometime. He seemed a little ticked off about rumors on this forum about long wait times. A couple weeks ago He said he could ship me a Walnut Hill that day if I wanted. If I wanted 6 he could ship me 6 of them. I believe the Walnut Hill comes with an adapter for 7/8x14 dies. I'll know more soon.

Bob

[newb23]

midnight did he say what kind of price he was going to put on the #3? i also want to start swaging but i am debating on getting a walnut hill or just use my lee classic cast and rcbs rock chucker. if the #3 is like the walnut hill only bigger and better i will wait and get one of those. especially if its big enough to extrude lead wire.

[midnight]

I'm trying to remember what Richard said since I already deleted the email. The best I can remember the #3 will be a little more than the Walnut Hill (maybe $100). Thats not bad when you consider the BMG kit for the Walnut hill is $95. I just got my Walnut Hill yesterday and am still figuring out how to use it since its operation is so different from a reloading press. I ordered the "S" die adapter since I have a set of dies I think are "S" dies. I figured out how to mount the internal punch in the punch holder and am trying to figure out how to mount the external punch in the ram. with the 2 threaded adapters, 3 bushings, 2 steel bars and 1 cross pin it's a little confusing. I might have "M" dies since the internal punch is threaded 7/8x14. I'l try to post a pic of the dies I have. Maybe someone will know what they are.

Bob

[Reload3006]

ok the punch on top of your pic is your internal punch it goes inside your die and the die screws into the ram of your press. the punch in the middle of your picture is the external punch and affixes to your punch holder that screws into the top of your press.
maybe this will help some
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSqR2lC1-Hw

[midnight]

Thanks, I had it backasswards. Now I guess I'll have to talk to BT about some dies. The only dies I have now are the ones in the above picture, a 22LR derim, and a swage-o-matic with a 44SWC die. Using half jackets I swaged some SWCs from 358315 & 358318 rifle bullets. A lot of exposed lead but I coated them with 45-45-10 & we'll see how they shoot. I trimmed & annealed about a 1000 5.7x28s today. Hope BT can tell me what I need for dies to turn them into bullets.

Bob

[BT Sniper]

Bob,

I'll be putting quite a few 30 cal dies together very soon. Post an inquire for me in my BTSniper tools sticky and I'll get you all the info you need.

Good shooting

Brian

[midnight]

For newb23, I found the deleted email from Richard Corbin. He said the price of the #3 press would be $550. He also said he hoped to start putting some together the end of July.

Bob