HS-6 for the .38 special?

[John in WI]

I just finished loading some Lee LSWC 158 grain bullets over a charge of Bullseye. I haven't fired any of these reloads yet--or any home made cast boolits--so tomorrow should be a blast! I got 40 loaded, one by one, with a Lee Loader, and didn't set off any primers by accident so it was a good night.

I was looking around some more on the web, and saw on the Hodgdon site a non- +P 158 gr cast LSWC loads using HS-6

They list 5.7gr/928 fps up to 6.3gr/1010 fps (pressure=16,200CUP).

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with HS-6 for the .38 special?

I'm curious because it's listed ~100fps faster than the Bullseye load I'm trying tomorrow for the same pressure. Are there any drawbacks? (huge muzzle flash or extra-loud?)

[geargnasher]

Extra dirty. Enjoy!

Works fine for the .357 Mag at middle to top-end loadings.

Gear

[jwp475]

I just finished loading some Lee LSWC 158 grain bullets over a charge of Bullseye. I haven't fired any of these reloads yet--or any home made cast boolits--so tomorrow should be a blast! I got 40 loaded, one by one, with a Lee Loader, and didn't set off any primers by accident so it was a good night.

I was looking around some more on the web, and saw on the Hodgdon site a non- +P 158 gr cast LSWC loads using HS-6

They list 5.7gr/928 fps up to 6.3gr/1010 fps (pressure=16,200CUP).

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with HS-6 for the .38 special?

I'm curious because it's listed ~100fps faster than the Bullseye load I'm trying tomorrow for the same pressure. Are there any drawbacks? (huge muzzle flash or extra-loud?)




HS-6 is an excellent choice

[Lefty SRH]

I loaded some of the most accurate .38spl loads with HS-6. the most accurate was 5.6gr of HS-6 under a 160gr round nose boolit, the Lyman 358311. I shot them out of my Ruger GP100 in .357 magnum with XS sights. I tried 3 other charges and found that every .5gr higher the accuracy diminished which I found suprising. The one charge UNDER 5.6gr was accurate too.
The down side is not all the powder was burned which got under the star extractor when I ejected the spent cases while doing a speed load at a local match and locked up my gun. The cylinder wouldn't close and when it did the cylinder would not rotate.
I wanted to use the 5.6gr for my competition load but I cant because of the un-burned powder. I have switched to 231/HP-38 for competition with accuracy very close to the HS-6 load.
Load some up with HS-6 it may suprise you.

[Pepe Ray]

Lefty SRH;
Perhaps you should consider adjusting your shooting technique.
Try keeping your muzzle UP while punching the extracter. The powder will dump with the cases.
Pepe Ray

[L Ross]

What are you going to be shootin' at John? Is the extra 100 fps worth the extra expense of 2 grains of powder? Will the extra power gain you anything? Thousands of rounds of practice with a good load with Bullseye was how the PD tried to teach us to shoot groups smaller than a bulls derrierre in our Combat Masterpiece's. Then they turned us loose on the streets with S&W +P hollow points for social encounters.

Duke

[Frank]

LRoss:

Will the extra power gain you anything?
A slower powder like HS6 gives you long range accuracy. Add along an LBT style nose and you will get long range hunting performance. HP's expand too fast and penetration is shallow.

[John in WI]

Well, I guess at the end of the day I just want to push my LSWC at a speed that gives them decent expansion (my "tests" are going to be pretty crude--milk jugs and wet phone books). My alloy is pretty soft, so I am hoping that the slower (and milder recoiling?) Bullseye loads would be fast enough. But if not, I was thinking of HS-6 as a faster "Plan B"

The other thing I am interested in is a trick I recently learned where you put a sheet of paper or aluminum foil in the nose section of your mold before you fill it to create a "split tip". I cast a few of them the other day, but haven't tested them yet. Again--if the ~800fps from Bullseye is enough to get them to expand (out to maybe 15 yards), then I would call it a success. If not--maybe an extra 100fps would be the trick!

I was considering some Power Pistol, because out of +P loadings they are reporting around 1000fps. But I read a lot of reports of extreme noise and muzzle blast. I wouldn't mind, but I bought the old police Smith as a plinker/nightstand gun for my lady. She's likes shooting well enough, but if I start hitting her with excessive noise and recoil she's never going to want to go out to the range with me!

I don't mind spending the money for an extra couple of grains of powder because of the overall savings from casting and reloading. I am very new to reloading, and am just looking for some leads to find a winner that will play nice out of the Smith. "Combat accurate" enough, decent power...

[subsonic]

Longshot will give you the highest velocity while keeping pressures under SAAMI max.

.38spl SAAMI max pressures are pretty wimpified, even +P is pretty low. If you are shooting them from a modern gun that is also chambered in .357....

And as far as blast and flash - you will have the least blast and flash from a powder that has the lowest muzzle pressure - not counting reduced flash from flash suppressed powders.

IE, if you can get 800fps @ 12000psi or 25000psi, the 12000psi will be quieter and have less flash.

[Lefty SRH]

Lefty SRH;
Perhaps you should consider adjusting your shooting technique.
Try keeping your muzzle UP while punching the extracter. The powder will dump with the cases.
Pepe Ray

Muzzle straight up is how I dump the cases for a speedloader reload.

[Lefty SRH]

231 and Clays Universal are also good powders for .38spl. I'd pick 231 over the Clays Universal first though.

[geargnasher]

Longshot is good too, and burns just a tad cleaner than HS6 at .38 pressures. Once also has to consider blast out the cylinder gap affecting "perceived recoil". Power Pistol is a fantastic powder, but tends to make more muzzle and cylinder flash than some others in my experience. It will flat-out blind you at night, and really needs more pressure than normal .38 Special loads allow to burn cleanly. 231 and similar burn-rate powders are about the slowest, really clean powders to use in the .38, but if your focus is on muzzle energy and long-range accuracy, the fact that a powder burns dirty in the application shouldn't rule it out. Some of my most accurate loads in both pistols and rifles leave "mummies" in the bore and cases and a lot of soot.

Gear

[45FP]

I've been using longshot for 45 acp and 357 mag but didn't see any loads listed for 38 spl. Can you give some details Mr. geargnasher or subsonic?

[Frank]

45FP:

I've been using longshot for 45 acp and 357 mag but didn't see any loads listed for 38 spl. Can you give some details Mr. geargnasher or subsonic?
Hodgdon

[subsonic]

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

It's there, just punch in the stuff you're looking for.

[shooting on a shoestring]

I burned a pound of HS6 in .38s and .357s. It worked. However, I found it to be position sensitive. I got about 100 to 150 fps differences between muzzle up or muzzle down before firing. Bullseye and Herco have hardly measureable differences in the order of 20 fps. So, I didn't bother to buy anymore HS6.

[45FP]

It's there, just punch in the stuff you're looking for.

I had looked there before, no standard 38 spl loads only +p.
Loads are for a small 38 S&W that's not rated for +P from what I've been told/ read somewhere.

[Frank]

geargnasher:

Longshot is good too, and burns just a tad cleaner than HS6 at .38 pressures. Once also has to consider blast out the cylinder gap affecting "perceived recoil". Power Pistol is a fantastic powder, but tends to make more muzzle and cylinder flash than some others in my experience. It will flat-out blind you at night, and really needs more pressure than normal .38 Special loads allow to burn cleanly. 231 and similar burn-rate powders are about the slowest, really clean powders to use in the .38, but if your focus is on muzzle energy and long-range accuracy, the fact that a powder burns dirty in the application shouldn't rule it out. Some of my most accurate loads in both pistols and rifles leave "mummies" in the bore and cases and a lot of soot.
Good info. My Hodgdon shows Longshot providing the fastest velocities. One really good load for HS-6 is straight out of the Hornady manual. 125 grn XTP's and 8.1 grains of HS-6. It will hit in a small circle at 100 yards all day long. :coffeecom

[WARD O]

Maybe I missed it but I didn't notice any primer choice mentioned. Would HS-6 be better ignitied with a mag primer?

ward

[Frank]

Ward O:

Maybe I missed it but I didn't notice any primer choice mentioned. Would HS-6 be better ignitied with a mag primer?

ward
The Hornady manual uses WSP. If you try a mag primer, reduce the charge by 10%.

[nitro-express]

Maybe I missed it but I didn't notice any primer choice mentioned. Would HS-6 be better ignitied with a mag primer?

ward

HS-6 is best used with a mag primer, HS-6 will have unburned powder unless ignited with a mag primer. I use a CCI-550 most of the time, have also used a Federal 200. CCI formulates their mag primers with a hotter burning compound, some of the others use more of the same compound in their mag primers.

HS-6 also burns cleaner at the higher end of the pressure curve. Here's my take on that; it means that it works better nearer the top recommended load, with a tight crimp (or good neck tension). In a shotgun, a tight crimp and good wad pressure make it work better also. As far as absolute pressure I get a bit confused on this issue; HS-6 burns clean in a shotgun at < 10,000, in the 38 that may be a bit low, and in the 357 mag it probably needs 25,000. Therefore, I think, it's not really a pressure issue, it's a temperature issue. The increased case capacity of the 357 will cause the powder to burn at a lower temperature, increasing the pressure will increase the temperature (and they said we'd never use any of what we learned in high school in real life).

Hence; back to my primer choice, probably best to use a primer that is hot, in terms of temperature.

I have used HS-6 in the 357 mag, with 125 gr bullets, and it was accurate, and clean. Cases came out with a short burn mark on the neck. The following case was fired with HS-6, but not the above load, and it shows what I mean by "burn mark"

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg25/nitro-express/357HS6_zpsce3be488.jpg (http://s244.photobucket.com/user/nitro-express/media/357HS6_zpsce3be488.jpg.html)

I've not done much reloading for handguns, and I still have a bunch to learn. I've come to realize that there are many "burn" characteristics of different powders, and each can work a bit differently with different loads.

When the recipe is right, HS-6 makes fine ammo.

[Treetop]

The other thing I am interested in is a trick I recently learned where you put a sheet of paper or aluminum foil in the nose section of your mold before you fill it to create a "split tip". I cast a few of them the other day, but haven't tested them yet.

Never heard of this trick before, John. Is this to help the boolit expand or break into two pieces, or what?

I would like to hear a range report from you, after you try them... Thanks, Tt.

[Three44s]

I really like HS-6 in a multitude of cartridges.

It meters like SIN, and produces upper field load performance with reasonable recoil.

In general, it's best with magnum primers.

I submit that I inside flash hole debur (IFHD) all of my metallic cartridges and feel that HS-6 benefits from that practice. One poster mentioned position sensitivity ...... IFHD is likely helpful in that endeavor.

I have found HS-6 to be beneficial in 7.62X25, .38 spec., 9mm Luger, .357 mag., .41 mag, .44 mag and the .480 Ruger ....... in short, every handgun cart. I load save for .30 carbine and .380 auto and I have not tried it there yet.

I would hazzard a guess that standard .38 special loads may not be optimum for HS-6 but P+ ought to be ....... my .38 cases were being run in a .357 at that time.

Best regards

Three 44s

[Harry O]

I have been using more and more HS-6 lately. It is almost as versatile as Unique and it meters better. Yes, it is dirty, but so is Unique.

I have been using 6.2gr of HS-6 with a 150gr SAECO 150gr SWC in a .38 Special. When I ran out of those, I went to 6.0gr with a 170gr Keith 358429. Both loads/bullets are very accurate. Neither are position sensitive in .38 Special cases. They are at the top end of regular pressure loads to about midway into the +P loads, depending on the loading book.

[John in WI]

Never heard of this trick before, John. Is this to help the boolit expand or break into two pieces, or what?

I would like to hear a range report from you, after you try them... Thanks, Tt.

I played around with them last summer and had pretty good success. I think if I had some time for development I would be on to something. Here are some pictures of recovered boolits I got from my .38 fired into wet-pack phone books last summer:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?158125-will-tin-add-TOUGNESS-without-HARDNESS&highlight=split+tip

I wish I had some time to work on it this summer. I was hoping to figure out what combination of speed and lead hardness it would take to let the boolits open up, but not blow the nose of on impact. It turns out making them is very easy, and it doesn't seem to cause problems with accuracy at the ranges I was testing them.

[blackbike]

These split nose boolits sounds like a lot of fun to play with.
There is a lot to consider as you have found out.
But dont forget nose profile (split nose) meplat, rnfp, plane old round nose might just be the ticket.
Just a thought, bb