Visiting with Dave Corbin

[frank martinez]

I will be going up to Oregon This weekend to visit with Dave Corbin. My friend Bill McBride of Star Manufacturing needs to have one of his Hydro Presses upgraded so I asked to go along. Bill has been making bullets for me for some of my larger rifles, 11.2, .404, 470 and .620
I will be talking with him about dies and supplies. We were already told there is a 24 month lag on some new designs we had asked about making. I am hoping he will have some dies available for a couple of my really heavy Big Bore rifles.
If there are some questions you might have I will gladly ask with these proviso=
Do not plan to ask any ludicrous, derogatory or demeaning questions.

I am going to ask permission to take some photos which I will share.
I am hoping to talk about securing a direct line for help and information. Bill already talks with him at least once and twice a month but after 30 plus years of working together I am sure they have the communication down to a code of some sort.
Frank

[gabe123]

If Mr. Corbin allows it, pictures would be fantastic.

[Sasquatch-1]

How about asking if he could post a basic how to video for his "S" press and dies for the beginner. Nothing elaborate. Just something that shows the basic and proper use of his tools.

[Reload3006]

he sells a video... I have it its ok. but not worth the money I spent on it.

[Sasquatch-1]

he sells a video... I have it its ok. but not worth the money I spent on it.

You would think with the money he charges for his stuff he could at least post a free how to video. Might even increase sales if people knew exactly what they needed and how to use it before they bought it. As I said before, just the basics, he does not have to give up any secrets.

I'll get the secrets here.

[PbHurler]

Dave's a really nice guy,
I was shown his facilities in 1990, Richard was still there at the time. I got to see the prototype run of the auto-strip feeder for the Hydro Press used to punch "coins" for jacket making.

You said you'd not ask any demeaning, derogatory questions, but if Dave asks YOU how you think things could be improved;

I'm curious as to if Corbins' web-purchase page couldn't be updated to show the current stock levels of products. Seems, items are listed, but you have no idea as to whether or not they are in stock, or are a 3-year to be scheduled to be run item.

I'd also like to see the availability to check the status of previous orders. I realize I'm small potatoes compared to some of whom his clients might be, but Dave is a computer "guru" as well.
I ordered (I think) 2 years ago, a jacket making die set for my Series 2 S-Press, and am still "patiently" waiting.

Oh yeah, enjoy you visit. Can you say kid in a candy store?

[Dakine]

I'd like to echo PbHurler and if he solicits advice, please tell him that potential customers are unable to understand his products and availability. The product reviews I read are very good, it's a shame that he would lose business on something that is so easily fixed as a dodgy web presence (and this is a common theme in the otherwise favorable reviews).

I was ready to hit the "buy" button but trying to navigate his site was too much hassle, if I have that much trouble trying to order, what should I expect if I need technical support after it arrives???

Enjoy the show, I bet it will be really cool to see their operation!

-Dak

[frank martinez]

What a great visit and an honor to meet MR. Corbin, his wife and crew. The shop is so full of machinery it would take forever to try and describe it all. I did take some photos which were of the shop and some instruction being given by Dave and his crew at different times. I am not posting any photos of the guys actually working on projects by request. My friend Bill and I were treated like guests in the home of very generous individuals. All the guys answered all the questions I was able to throw at them and although I am new at this I learned a tremendous amount about the process and the business as well as a great deal on the new theory of die making and bullet design. Yes they are up to date on the newest ideas out there about how bullets should be made.
We had taken one of Bill's hydro presses in for repair and it didn't take more than a few minutes of troubleshooting for the crew to affect the repairs required and to upgrade the press. I should mention Bill's press was purchased in 1984 and this is the first time it had been in for repair. That, after making hundreds of thousands of bullets mostly for .375 and larger bullets. That includes lots of .620 bullets in the 900 grain range and running jackets at .065 thickness. Most of those are brass tube and copper tube.
We had a very good demonstration of die making and I had the chance to see how many times the die was checked while drilling on the turret lathe before it ever made it to the lapping set-up. I was offered the chance to check the die with something similar to a dental pick and I could not even feel the ridges made during the reamer process. Once it was perfect- to my mind- the guys moved it to the lapping process and started smoothing the inside of the die. And then they started the polishing. It is amazing how many times they stopped to check on quality before it ever made it to quality control.
Once that was finished it went to the press and multiple bullets were made. Not a single mark, edge or blemish. Really slick.
We had a chance to see the handles being made got a look at some of the csp-2 presses being assembled and got a look at one of the presses being set up to load Vulcan 20mm brass as well as a set up for 50 bmg loading.
My friend Bill got his hands on a new prototype press that I cannot explain but which offered a dual action motion which generated near hydro pressure. Really very nice.
I had a chance to talk with Dave about the need for ordering simplification and he knew there was a delay there but the order assembly room was so full of variations of similar tooling that he felt it would take him two years of training to get two people up to speed on the process. Since he was already working the equivalent of two full time jobs doing that very thing he didn't think he could spare the time to do more with the online service. He is also selling lots of merchandise out the front door which is open for business and while we were there several customers came in from the local area and a couple of guys there from Colorado and southern California. Hi wife at the front desk said it was like that all the time and we still got a first class treatment and straight forward thorough answers to our questions.
After buying my dies and paying for the repairs I had a chance to talk with Dave about is top-break pistol collection and we took a look at his collection of swagging presses that was beyond the drool factor for us both.

I asked about the how-to video but Dave felt that with the number of videos on You tube, his time was better spent keeping up with the problems of supply and quality of items being purchased for the continuation of the die making and press making business. His business suffered like the rest of the gun business with a lack of quality steel, brass, and electronics that the rest of the world has. His wife agreed and told me not to bring it up again. Yes Ma'm.
Dave is a born teacher and luckily he has passed it on to his crew. They were all well versed in what they needed to do and why. As I said, our questions were thoroughly answered.

My suggestions on ordering. Write down everything you want to do do and then call. Those wondering about in stock items will know right now. If you want something he did not have at least you are in the queue right now. I went in thinking I knew exactly what I wanted and found that Dave had kits set up to do what I wanted better and for less. I had already read one of his first books and went ahead and bought the rest of his set --- cheap for the info included-- and he was generous enough to sign them for me.

A while back I recall some discussion on canalure tools and talked with him about using it for adding grooves to lead bullets. Suggestion, he has a two groove tool for lead bullets. Makes it easy to swage a few rather than caste and add a couple grease grooves and start loading. Very nice.

I am going to upload a few photos tomorrow but wanted to get this info out there more quickly.
I had a great visit and although the dies he offers are expensive he is the only source for some items I want having to do with rifle bullet swagging. Oh, yeah, I did talk about the problem of the long delay in getting items and was told they had been improving recently down from a 36 month backlog to a 24 month delay and that if someone in front of you had also ordered that item you could get it as quickly as the guy who had to wait awhile. If they have to make one, they make as many as they need plus one.
His set up does not allow for a newbie to walk in and start. One gentleman I spoke with met Dave at a gunshow and after talking a bit he was invited to come over and take a look at the business. This guy had been a machinist for 20 plus years and suffered through the changes in the business caused by CNC, EDM, ????? and how ever many other changes machinists are having to learn these days. After two steps into the shop he simply exclaimed "I'm Home". Another gentleman had been there 12 years after an equal number of years in another machine shop. The fellow who did the evaluation and repair of the Hydro press went through the electronics wiring without referring to a schematic or the boards everyone uses these days. He too had been there a number of years without thought of change.
It takes a great owner to hire the best and keep them.
Frank

[DukeInFlorida]

Nice write up. Thank you for taking the time to post it.

Maybe I'm different, but I kind of thought Dave's shop was virtually a one man thing. It's nice to know that he has several helpers making stuff flow out the door.

I disagree with some of his manufacturing philosophy (designed to make it easier for him, but with the long lead times, tends to piss off the customers who waited a long time to have someone else get their stuff faster)

Considering the mind set (general unhappiness) of the customer base for the excessive long lead times, he should set scheduling such that the customer happiness comes before his scheduling benefits. Since all of the stuff he does is custom anyways, and that one extra of everything tends to go out the door right off, he's never really building inventory. So, make each order on a FIFO (First in First OUT) basis.

Looking fiorward to eeing your pictures. Thanks again for taking the time to post this.

[gabe123]

It is nice to know that the general public can go to his shop and buy direct. I never would have thought that it would be possible to do that.

Thank you Frank, for putting in the time and effort to share all the information . Looking forward to seeing some pictures.

Gabe

[Jammer Six]

Sounds like he's too busy for me.

His wife really told a paying customer not to bring something up again?

[frank martinez]

Sounds like he's too busy for me.

His wife really told a paying customer not to bring something up again?

It was with tongue-in-cheek and meant to save Dave who I bet would do everything he possibly could to help his customers understand.
It was more important for me to know that he had given it serious thought and even had quote from professional outfits to produce the product.
His shop is as busy as any small business owner trying to deliver a quality product at a living wage. Anyone who knows small business is aware that the owner works twice as much for less than his employees are paid more because he wants only quality associated with his name and not because he expects to grow fat and sassy rich.

Here are some photos of the shop.
Some very interesting presses from the past. There were also some very old and original machines. Like a Herters' that nearly gave me a hernia just looking.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/frankmartinez/davecorbin013.jpg

A machinists dream!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/frankmartinez/davecorbin008.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/frankmartinez/davecorbin007.jpg

Presses waiting to pack and ship. Notice the press with the 20 mm Vulcan brass
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/frankmartinez/davecorbin005.jpg

And waiting for assembly
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/frankmartinez/davecorbin024.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/frankmartinez/davecorbin023.jpg

Bill receiving instruction
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/frankmartinez/davecorbin017.jpg

Instruction on die making theory
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/frankmartinez/davecorbin028.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/frankmartinez/davecorbin027.jpg


Bill McBride of Star Manufacturing, Dave Corbin- Swage Zar, Frank Martinez Newbie with the Wizards
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/frankmartinez/davecorbin025.jpg

[sewerman68]

Several years ago, when I was first begining to cast my own boolits, I ran across an article in an old handloading digest my casting mentor had given me on corbin dies. I was interested to say the least, but had a lot of questions, there was a phone number at the end of the article for Corbin dies so, I called it and Mr. Corbin answered the phone!, He cheerfully and even enthusiastically answered my questions for at least 30 minutes. I still haven't scraped together the cheese for the set up we talked about but you can believe he earned my business when I do that day.

[MIBULLETS]

Thank you Frank for posting this, wish I could have been there with you. While I have never met Dave, I have talked to him many times. Each time I come away with the same respect it sounds like you have. While he is back logged and has long delivery times, he does make a good product. By the size of the back log, I would say there are quite a few people who would agree.

[frank martinez]

He did mention they had been attacking the problem with enthusiasm. He has cut the 3 year wait down to 24 months in less than a year and he hopes to get even better this year.
Frank

[mrwhite]

Thanks for posting this.
Very interesting.

[taminsong]

frank,

I am interested in the cannelure tool for lead bullets, please post a pic, I wish you got one!
Thanks for nice write up, and for the photos also!

[frank martinez]

frank,

I am interested in the cannelure tool for lead bullets, please post a pic, I wish you got one!
Thanks for nice write up, and for the photos also!

Bill did buy one. I will try to get a photo when I visit his shop.
Frank

[ofreen]

I first talked to Dave Corbin on the phone almost 30 years ago when I bought my first swaging equipment from him. It was a lengthy conversation and I felt guilty about taking up his time, but he didn't mind. Several times over the years I've called about one thing or another and he'd answer the phone. J.D. Jones is another like that. I talked with Jones a few times over the years, one time over an hour when I called SSK to order a barrel. When he found out I was in Kotzebue it lead to a long conversation. Pretty cool, but I always wondered how those guys got any work done.

[Sgt Petro]

Thanks Frank!

[clodhopper]

Hey Frank, or anybody here. In the picture of all the presses, what is the model of press sixth from the left? yeah the one that is higest up the wall?
I have two like it, purchased from an estste and want to know the name/ model #
Thanks for any information.

[frank martinez]

Sorry I am not any help with that one. I meant to ask Dave but we were working hard to get so much information I forgot before leaving. He must have gotten twenty phone calls before we left the front office.
Frank

[clodhopper]

Thanks Frank, somebody might recogonize it.
I have been trolling through back pages of the swaging thread to learn about the other tools I got in a package deal.
I have one of the bronze/AL horozontal presses also.

[MIBULLETS]

If you are talking about the one that is a little higher and the handle is pointing out at us some, then that is a Series II press. It was the predecessor to the current S Press. It will accept Corbin M dies and S dies. It can also be upgraded to be a S Press by Corbin. I have a S Press and am very happy with it.

[clodhopper]

Thanks MIBULLETS.

[Edward429451]

Everything you want to know about swaging bullets and operation of their dies and presses, is all in the two books. Corbin Handbook of Bullet Swaging, and Rediscover Swaging!

There's not a lot to it really. You adjust your dies up and down for weight, and use different nose punches for styles of bullets. You can flip them upside down and make FMJs too! Then there's thin or thick jackets for hunting or fraging. :bigsmyl2:

[Dakine]

Everything you want to know about swaging bullets and operation of their dies and presses, is all in the two books. Corbin Handbook of Bullet Swaging, and Rediscover Swaging!

There's not a lot to it really. You adjust your dies up and down for weight, and use different nose punches for styles of bullets. You can flip them upside down and make FMJs too! Then there's thin or thick jackets for hunting or fraging. :bigsmyl2:

neat, thanks! I'll go look and see what amazon wants for those books :)

[Dakine]

uhm actually never mind, 1 of the books is 40 dollars used (new is not available), and the other is 100 used but not in stock. Regrettably I'll pass :(

[clodhopper]

You can get the book on CD from Corbin for $9.50.
I would very much prefer a paper copy I can hold in my hand, read during wasted time waiting for something to happen, and take right to my reloading room.

[MIBULLETS]

Corbin does have the handbook and a few others free for downloading....

http://www.swage.com/ebooks.htm

[khamill2000]

Hey Frank, or anybody here. In the picture of all the presses, what is the model of press sixth from the left? yeah the one that is higest up the wall?
I have two like it, purchased from an estste and want to know the name/ model #
Thanks for any information.

Looks like a CSP1

http://www.corbins.com/csp-1.htm

[clodhopper]

Looks like a CSP1

http://www.corbins.com/csp-1.htm

Yeah they look similar, but if you could see the two presses laying on my garage floor, the slight diffrences would take a sharp eye to pick out.
The bottom link is rounded where the handle is screwed in. The press sixth in line is squared. The nuts on the top are crown nuts while the nuts on the CSP-1 are plain ole nuts.

[khamill2000]

Yeah they look similar, but if you could see the two presses laying on my garage floor, the slight diffrences would take a sharp eye to pick out.
The bottom link is rounded where the handle is screwed in. The press sixth in line is squared. The nuts on the top are crown nuts while the nuts on the CSP-1 are plain ole nuts.

The one he uses in his video has minor differences than the one I bought from him. Do you suppose that it's possible that he made minor changes to his press during the years that he has been producing them?

[clodhopper]

Yes he did, as MIBULLETS mentioned in post 27.
The sixth press looks very much like my press, but the current CSP-1 has minor differences.

[gitano]

Nice write up. Thank you for taking the time to post it.

I disagree with some of his manufacturing philosophy (designed to make it easier for him, but with the long lead times, tends to piss off the customers who waited a long time to have someone else get their stuff faster)

Considering the mind set (general unhappiness) of the customer base for the excessive long lead times, he should set scheduling such that the customer happiness comes before his scheduling benefits. Since all of the stuff he does is custom anyways, and that one extra of everything tends to go out the door right off, he's never really building inventory. So, make each order on a FIFO (First in First OUT) basis.

Thanks again for taking the time to post this.

Ditto. I have spoken with him several times on the phone, and he is truly helpful. But...

I also have some serious heartburn with his willingness to tell people that he has an item IN STOCK AND READY TO SHIP when they CALL about availability, THEN AFTER THE ORDER IS PLACED, tell that it's NOT IN STOCK and they have to wait TWO YEARS to get it. If that had happened once, it MIGHT be understandable, but it has happened THREE TIMES! That's inexcusable.

He's a "nice guy" when you meet him and when he's on the phone, but his business practices are "bad", pure and simple.

Paul

[khamill2000]

Yes he did, as MIBULLETS mentioned in post 27.
The sixth press looks very much like my press, but the current CSP-1 has minor differences.

I understand. Must have missed that post. Thank you

[Jammer Six]

He's a "nice guy" when you meet him and when he's on the phone, but his business practices are "bad", pure and simple.

Unfortunately, I agree.

I hope that the new competition coming online (BTSniper and others, right here on our forum) will either change this or eat his lunch.

It's a brutal answer, but it's a brutal game.

[frnkeore]

Dave is a friend and I live 5 miles from his shop. He is a very nice and friendly guy. Not fake in any since of the word.

He over works himself, all the time and also is in the forefront of the local pistol club and range. He's at every gun show, promoting the club (not his business) trying to keep the membership up. He spent MANY hours a couple of years ago fighting the DEQ over the lead disposal of our pistol traps at the indoor range and was instrumental in keeping them from shutting us down.

You won't find a more genuine person than Dave.

No grass ever grows under Dave's feet.

Frank

[Jammer Six]

Frank, I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise.

We're talking about his business practices, from the only perspective that many of us have.

And speaking strictly about his business practices, strictly from a customer's perspective, he's made some poor choices.

If he made different choices, he could do more business, and make more money.

That's all we're saying.

[mdenz3]

He makes everything on manual machines? No wonder he has a two year wait.

[frank martinez]

As I mentioned earlier I don't really believe he is out to get rich doing this. He really does love the business and the creation of new and better ways of doing things. There is a point at which the one-person business overwhelms the "person" and grows beyond the ability to keep up. I know, I had one for 35 years. I finally retired before I began to hate it. I hope it doesn't overwhelm Dave as I am just getting into it and would hate to see it end. Frankly there aren't any other businesses out there ready to fill the void.
I spoke with one of the gentlemen on the line about the lack of cnc, edm and other auto systems and they did have some experince with the failure of cnc. I must not be as easy as it seems because there are tons of students being pumped out with cnc training and few if any turning that expertise into making swage equipment. There were some attempts at making presses with cnc but for some reaso they don't seem to function as well and Manual cut presses.
Frank

[mdenz3]

As with manual machines the CNC will work as well at the operator. I run a machine and have several CNC machines that I know could produce most of those parts as good or better than a manual. The very critical inside parts of the dies may lend themselves more to manual machines, but there is no reason not to be blanking out the non-critical dimensions in a fraction of the time on a CNC.

I may need to give Dave a call...

[Jammer Six]

Oh, we agree. Every word that he says, every action that he takes, and every page of his website screams that he's not trying to get rich out of this.

I don't think there's any question there.

[frank martinez]

As with manual machines the CNC will work as well at the operator. I run a machine and have several CNC machines that I know could produce most of those parts as good or better than a manual. The very critical inside parts of the dies may lend themselves more to manual machines, but there is no reason not to be blanking out the non-critical dimensions in a fraction of the time on a CNC.

I may need to give Dave a call...
I kinda think the real time is in the hands on work or checking and re-checking the work to make sure the die is a precise unit.
I think it would be great to see more of the simple parts and pieces being made. I know it was mentioned that some of the parts for some of the presses were being ruffed and then finished by the Corbin crew. We all know that as soon as that starts happening time-lines get out of control because of waiting for others to do their work. I used to have the same issues when sending parts out for painting and when I would send components out for customizing. There was always the time added for shipping and the time lost waiting for the ?other" guy to do his part.
Like I said, I went there thinking I could get what I wanted but my thoughts did not match the needs and I am glad Dave took the time to explain it all and not just send me away with stuff that didn't do what I wanted. I got put on the wait list but that is better than staring at a package of stuff that would never work.
Frank

[Reload3006]

I have always found Dave Corbin to be a very amiable person. And he knows what he is doing. I however opted to go with his brothers gear because of 1 price 2 lead time Most of the things Dave Corbin sells was designed by his brother Richard. and Richard is making just as good quality with almost half the cost and a third the wait time. I do have some Corbin MFg stuff too there is no better cannelure or knurling tool on the market. I also have a mighty mite press. I just believe that today there are better options and as of yet Dave hasn't decided he needs to compete... but then again with a 3 year wait maybe he doesn't feel like he has to compete.

[frnkeore]

"but then again with a 3 year wait maybe he doesn't feel like he has to compete. "

Yes, most business would LOVE to have the back orders that Dave has :)

"and Richard is making just as good quality with almost half the cost and a third the wait time."

I also know Richard (he is one of the BEST OH shots that there ever was) and he set up and ran the machine shop that Dave has but, Richard doesn't have the people skills that his brother has. I haven't been to Richards shop but, I would bet that it's very much like Dave's. Make Richard upset by trying to tell him what to do and you'll be lucky to ever do business with him.

They both know there business very, very well.

Frank