Anyone have a good source for CNC tooling?

[happy7]

So those who are making molds. Where do you get the custom tooling for cutting the cavities? I know some people make their own, but that is beyond me. I got a quote from one place. $2000 for six! There has to be some cheaper places.

[turbo1889]

I'm not a machinist myself but know enough to tell you that it might help if you told people what kind of machine tool you are going to use to cut the mold cavity with and thus exactly what kind of tooling you are looking for.

If you have a CNC milling machine and are going to use it to cut your mold cavities your tooling requirements are significantly different then if you are using a CNC lathe. And there is more then one method being used for each and different tooling for the different methods.

[LEADHOPPER]

PM Sent

[zuke]

Tried EBAY yet?

[bwgdog]

Have you checked with Pacific Tool-Been having myreamers made by them for years-First Class!

[Cap'n Morgan]

The beauty of making molds on a CNC machine is, that you can use generic tooling for various calibers and lengths. If your machine can do helical interpolation, a couple of different nose profile tools and a grooving cutter will get you a long way. If it will only do two axis interpolation, your boolit designs will be a little more restricted, but not much. If you're interested I'll try and make a "how to" post of the general principles of programming for multi-tooling mold cutting.

[40Super]

You get to learn "M" and "G" codes now, that is some fun stuff. Kind of a second language. G12 and G13 codes are the ones for circular interpolation ,then add the Z axis moves.

[theperfessor]

Could be differences in machines, but the ones I've run use G02 and G03 for circular interpolation. Not trying to be picky here.

[40Super]

Ya,the G02 and G03 are a circular interpolation clockwise/counterclockwise,On the Haas mill anyway G12 and G13 are circular movements also. The G03 and G02 are used on the Lathe.

[theperfessor]

Yes, there are a lot of "dialects" with CNC code. A lot of the unassigned G codes are macros that are interpreted quite differently from brand to brand.

[40Super]

Even in the same brand.Our mill has different functions with the same code as the lathes. And most codes can do 2,3,4 different cycles,depending on how the line is worded or what setting is used.All them macros. Like G71 is used for O.D. turning or I.D. turning,the only difference is the X start point, Litterally if you are just .001" on the wrong side, CRASH!!!!

[happy7]

I will not be doing the machining, but have found a machine shop that will do some for me. I just need to come up with the tooling.

I will get some information from the machine shop and monday as to what kind of machine they have.

[MSGO-Hammer]

Even in the same brand.Our mill has different functions with the same code as the lathes. And most codes can do 2,3,4 different cycles,depending on how the line is worded or what setting is used.All them macros. Like G71 is used for O.D. turning or I.D. turning,the only difference is the X start point, Litterally if you are just .001" on the wrong side, CRASH!!!!

And what a racket it makes!

[40Super]

The only bad boo boo I did was with a 5/8 square stock in the lathe. I was making some small spindles and barpulling after parting, I put in a new length and it was about 6 inches longer than I was running,I didn't feel like taking it out and cutting it down so I just turned the rpm's down by 30 to 40%. Not enough:mad: When it went to face the part off,the rpm's ramped higher than I thought it would and the part of rod that was hanging out bent over from centrifigal force. Talk about starting a bowel movement!!
Didn't damage much,just the coolant catch box on the back. I had to bend up a new one.:oops::oops:
I caught a few mistakes by when graphing the program out and carefull proofing it on the first parts.

[turbo1889]

Dang I want a CNC lathe of my own !!!

I've been browsing through the tooling available at Grainger(.com) which is by no means the cheapest and usually you can find the exact same thing they have somewhere else for a lot cheaper but I love their search engine system which lets me really narrow down a huge selection by every little detail.

I'm beginning to see a whole lot of different boolit designs in my head. Internal groove cutting tools and internal thread cutting tools to cut the main body of the boolit with all its lube and crimp grooves. Boring bar cutting tools for cutting the nose ogive. And then finally, if you don't want a flat on the nose the diameter of the boring bar you could use either a ball end mill cutter (chucked in tight and centered) to form the very tip of the nose for a rounded nose tip or use a tapered or sharp tip angle drill bit to form a pointed nose boolit depending on how pointed you wanted it to be.

I'm also beginning to really understand how cutting depth and the diameter of the hole are so closely connected. Sure you can get an internal thread cutting tool with a maximum depth of cut that is 1.500" allowing you to make one very long bullet body and a boring bar with even more depth of cut to form the nose ogive beyond but your hole diameter must be at least 3/8" to get it all inside and you will end up with a big flat on the end of the nose due to the larger diameter that a longer boring bar has. Want to drop down to a 1/4" diameter hole, well your practical max depth just dropped down to 1.000" at least for the first cutting tool to form the main boolit body with the lube grooves and such. On the other hand I can also see how it does seem to be possible to cut very small diameter boolits with a CNC lathe like 25 and 22 caliber you just have a lot less depth of cut with the cutting tools that will fit in those smaller holes. Heck, I'm surprised that the guys who cut custom CNC lathe bored molds (Accurate and Mountain) are willing to go all the way down to a 0.18" diameter boring bar that gives us that small of a flat on the nose on a boolit that is longer then an inch. A boring tool that was 0.23" instead of 0.18" seems to be a lot more common in cutting depths longer then an inch and is probably significantly stiffer.

[40Super]

It is more of a shaped cutter than a boring bar. One edge is ground to the shape of the bullet and you feed the X axis to final dia. Hole is roughed out with a drill sized smaller than min dia of bullet.

[turbo1889]

It is more of a shaped cutter than a boring bar. One edge is ground to the shape of the bullet and you feed the X axis to final dia. Hole is roughed out with a drill sized smaller than min dia of bullet.

That is one way of doing it; and I am familiar with that method.

There is, however, another method well suited to those adapt at writing computer code (something I once did a long time ago back in the DOS operating system days). The hole is as you mentioned is first roughed out undersized with a regular old simple drill bit then an off the shelf single point cutting tool usually some kind of internal groove or thread cutting tool is used to trace out the main body of the boolit with all its lube grooves, body bands, crimp grooves, and possibly a gas check shank carefully cut with that single point cutting tool where the CNC code is used to make the tip of the cutting tool trace out the desired shape. Then you change tools to an off the shelf boring bar that is used to trace out the nose shape with CNC down to the flat on the tip of the nose which can be as small as the cutting diameter of the boring bar. And then finally if you don't want a flat on the nose you can cut out that flat with a shaped tool to form the very tip of the nose. All done with off the shelf tooling just using CNC code to make simple cutting tools cut complex shapes. Even the final tool to form the tip of the nose can be an off the shelf cutting tool such as a 3/16" ball end mill cutter if you are willing to accept that shape as the very tip of your boolit design (and it doesn't make a bad choice for many medium to large caliber rifle boolits).

It is my understanding that both Accurate Molds and Mountain Molds uses this heavily coded CNC lathe cutting technique (minus cutting a tip profile other then a simple 0.18" or larger meplat flat on the nose) and they have written their own coding interfaces that lets them turn a drawing of a boolit into an actual CNC program to cut the cavity fairly simply and most of the work in actual code writing is in the program they have each written that they just plug the numbers into for each different boolit design desired.

I don't know the exact code language these CNC machines use but I could learn it. I learned how to write stuff in the old numbered line "If/Then" computer languages that was pretty cool back in its day and had some pretty heavy code in it including some game engines that were pumping 3D wire-frame graphics with back-ground simple Newtonian physics engines to give "real feel" that I built completely from scratch myself just fooling around when I was in high-school so I think I could learn how to write CNC code if I put my mind to it.

So many things I would love to do, so little time, so little money. :cry: :cry:

[40Super]

Ya I know the code,I use it every day at work, just when getting that small and sticking out an inch, chatter becomes a real issue, along with tool deflection.There are mini b-bar cutters made of solid carbide(Kennametal is one that makes them, can buy them through MSC/J&L Industrial Supply) that would probably work. I usually avoid sticking small tools out more than 3x their diameter.Way too many issues and can be inconsistant(a bad thing when you want several cavities exactly the same) .
With an Autocad or Solid Works drawing it can be run through a conversion software like Master Cam or Espirit, that converts the drawing to CNC code, or it can be done old school, by hand.

[turbo1889]

Well, 40Super, you know more then I do about this stuff since I'm just a drool-er when it comes to this stuff so far and you are an actual do-er. But to throw an actual example out:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/MICRO-100-Boring-Bar-16T047

It is too big to cut anything much smaller then 35-cal boolit molds but from what little I know I think you could trace out some real nice boolit shapes with CNC code even with just it alone single tool cut no second boring bar tool for the nose if you were willing to limit yourself to big flat wide flat nose boolits. Perfect for making up a bunch of big thumper revolver boolit molds.

[40Super]

Thats what the Kennametals are like.With some custum grinding on the nose shape and a little relief grinding for clearance along the backbone of the bar it could be made to work(Aluminum or brass would be best for chatter and finish). With (maybe)2 of those cutters, a person should be able to get the nose a little smaller also if you ground the cutter end to the finish profile and when the code was written, it could be used like a spoon-bit to finish the nose. Thats kind of the fun with hand writing the code, you can make the machine do almost anything,as long as your math is good.