Breachin rounds

[lunicy]

I want to qualify all before I start:
Don't respond, just buy them. I am a tinkerer, and I want to make them.
Don't respond i don't need them. I don't need alot of things, I want them.
I start this way because another site didn't bother to answer my questions, but did "scold" me.

What is in breaching rounds? Has anyone made any?

I have messed with some and I know it's powdered something.

I want some just for the hell of it. Besides, I have a door on my shop that is getting replaced soon.....

[wills]

http://www.cqbsupply.com/doorbreaching.html

[steg]

Could be a slug of what we called Woolts metal, in the machine shop, it melts at around 158 degrees, and if you hit a chunk of it with a hammer a good portion of it would splatter, I think it's the same stuff they used to use in the old gallery 22 cal rounds?

[lunicy]

Could be a slug of what we called Woolts metal, in the machine shop, it melts at around 158 degrees, and if you hit a chunk of it with a hammer a good portion of it would splatter, I think it's the same stuff they used to use in the old gallery 22 cal rounds?

I cant find any info at all on woolts metal.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

could you use #12 shot and some glue like a rubber cement and pack it into forms then push from the form into a shot cup when it hardened

[heathydee]

Could be a slug of what we called Woolts metal, in the machine shop, it melts at around 158 degrees, and if you hit a chunk of it with a hammer a good portion of it would splatter, I think it's the same stuff they used to use in the old gallery 22 cal rounds?
Woods Metal ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood's_metal

[pincherpartner]

Did you see this on the Box O Truth? He has one cut apart.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot25.htm

[220swiftfn]

I would wonder if Zinc WW filings would work???? You'd have to hold it all together with a tight overwad card under your crimp......(hmmmmm...... I have a file......AND a bunch of zinc WW's!!!!!:idea::idea:




Dan

[UNIQUEDOT]

I saw a video once where they were testing all types of specialty shotshells and they said the breacher rounds were loaded with powdered soft lead.

[Y2K]

Would that be something like the "powdered lead" that is used for balancing semi tires inside the tire?

[acguy45]

I have tried some "white trash workshop" frangible shotgun shells recently using an idea off of youtube . Basically just take cheapy target field loads cut them open and take parafin wax / crayons. melt with the shot and put the mixture back in the shell and cap off with a layer of wax.
They were pretty accurate on paper for me at 30 yds. ( I didn't get a chance to try further). I was wanting to try some fun " reactive Targets like the video shows but the range on post would frown upon that.

Admin Note: the quarter on the target was not harmed. I added it for a size comparison.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfbrP7ujerE

[yovinny]

Most police and military use the Hatten round, made in England, about $15. a pop.
It's a powdered metal projectile and isent available for sale to civilians

It has issues, mostly from not fragmenting reliabily enough.
It's earned a rep for hurting lots of people, civilians on the other side from over penetration and operators from secondary projectiles.

I was involved in some testing a few years ago for a better breaching round, which was completely developed, tested and perfected.
Problem was in the funding, nobody wanted to invest the $$$ to tool up production without big contracts and the commitment for contracts just wasent there.
So it went exactly nowhere.

I cant say much more than that, except powdered metal isent the way to go.

[Combat Diver]

When I went thru my two month CQB course, we were issued Hatten rounds for our cut down 870s for ballistic breaching (we also did mechnical and explosive breaching). This was in 98. As yovinny stated they are powdered metal. Either Cheaper than Dirt or Sportsmans Guide had some for sale not to long ago. Might check there.

CD

[steg]

When I wrote Woolts metal I was spelling it phonetically. That's what the tool and die maker used to call it, It was used by melting it and geting inside measurements, I don't think it had any shrinkage at all. He used it to cast Shad darts when the boss was'nt around, then he would get me to paint and tie em up for him. He forgot a small box of em on his dash and ended up with some kind of Modern art when they melted together..................steg

I wish I would have kept some to cast a few slugs just for s---- and giggles

[steg]

healthydee, you found it, he just pronounced it with a "t"

[John in WI]

Some of the youtube vids on "wax slugs" were pretty amazing. Someone already described it. You cut the crimp off of some cheapo birdshot and mix the shot with melted wax and pour it back in the wad to harden.

What I don't like about it is that the wax could easily get warm enough to melt.

So I'm wondering if you could do a similar thing with shot, metal filings, or whatever else and instead of wax use some poly-resin (you can get Bondo brand fiberglass resin at any auto store). The resin is fairly brittle so would probably blow apart on impact.

I was thinking of something more along the lines of a long-distance frangible slug than up close breaching though. I'm half thinking of casting some into a wad, and letting the resin while inside of a hull (to make sure it doesn't open up with curing). And make sure that the TOTAL mass of the projectile was accounted for when figuring out a powder charge. It wouldn't need any blinding speed I don't think.

Anyway, I don't really like the frangible slug idea for pistols (the penetration is terrible), and don't really like the idea of birdshot for BG's. But dumping an ounce of lead shot--all in a nice tight package--onto a target would give you obscene energy transfer.

[UNIQUEDOT]

So I'm wondering if you could do a similar thing with shot, metal filings, or whatever else and instead of wax use some poly-resin (you can get Bondo brand fiberglass resin at any auto store).

Just remember when you're tinkering with stuff like this that the wad column must be able to freely start moving as soon as the expanding gases behind it attempt to push it. You don't want to use something that is going to glue the column to the hull. You can exceed maximum pressures in a shotgun just by adjusting your crimp too deep on an otherwise perfectly safe load so i would imagine that a wad column glued to the inside of the hull would raise pressures significantly.

[PanaDP]

Why not just a shot cup full of fine sand? You could wet pack it in with a light adhesive like 1 part wood glue in 10 parts water. That would make a sand slug that would completely come apart the instant it hit something, at least in theory.

[Mooseman]

I would try some #8 or #9 shot and use hot glue to form a frangible round slug in a mold made from tubing or pipe , then push it in place and recrimp the shotshell...should work awesome and not melt in normal hot climates. Match the weight with the original load by removing some of the shot for the weight of the glue.

Rich

[UNIQUEDOT]

Why not just a shot cup full of fine sand?

Sand would ruin the barrel of your shotgun quicker than anything else you could possibly shoot through it.

[odfairfaxsub]

you could use the same wads they use for steel, or other hardened loads a shotcup with no open pedals. if you leak a tiny bit of sand your toast tho when you shoot. try the tiniest shot you can find with wax bonding techniques that would do great

[John in WI]

" You don't want to use something that is going to glue the column to the hull. You can exceed maximum pressures in a shotgun just by adjusting your crimp too deep on an otherwise perfectly safe load so i would imagine that a wad column glued to the inside of the hull would raise pressures significantly"

That is a very real concern! I didn't explain my idea very well. I was thinking of casting the poly-resin in a wad with shot in a different hull (maybe spray it down with Pam or something so the resin won't stick), let it harden, and then remove it, verify the weight, and THEN place it over a powder charge.

I was thinking it should work something along the line of the Lee slugs--basically just a slug you fire from a shotcup.

But thanks for that important safety note. If you hard-glue the wad to the hull, or gunk up the cushion section, you could be asking for some catastrophic pressure.

[odfairfaxsub]

wax will not glue the wad to the shell

[429421Cowboy]

I have shot a fair number of wax slugs through my guns, i believe they would work great as a breeching round and i would hate to see what they might do to a live target. A standard trap load in wax will punch through 1/2" plywood at 75 yards in our tests, i have no doubts as to what it would do to a door lock or hinges. When my oldest brother was trained in the USAF he told me they used plain old unmodified no 8 shot to take any door off at the hinges or blow the strike plate out, he says they never had an issue with a shooter being harmed, obviously safety glasses would be a good idea, and over penatration would likely not be an issue with birdshot.

[Chicken Thief]

Go to the local machineshop and get some iron filings/shawings fron the big saw.
Pop the top on some 7/8oz trap loads and reseal after swapping contents.

[Greg5278]

Compressed lead was used for breaching rounds. Now alot of them are compressed Copper or copper Tin powder. Corbin sells the powder. It isn't Toxic. I would just compress some #12 or lead dust mixed with graphite powder in a cylinder, and use that. Defintely wear Eye protection, and probably Gloves if you shoot the into a Door.
G

[Geraldo]

I don't know what was in the ones we used, but it I were trying to handload an equivalent I would just use #12 shot and be done with it. LE uses manufactured breaching rounds because of liability, not because they do a better job than a shotshell.

[Lloyd Smale]

same OO buck im going to be using on the other side!

[Punisher422]

http://www.gunloads.com/castboolits/showthread.php?t=110109

I had the same idea and built some just for kicks. I used the dusty slag from smelting wheel weights and melted wax from a candle into when it was 1/3 full, 2/3 full, and then when it was all the way full. I used a light charge of Red Dot. It was fun, and I even loaded a couple of shells with small sprues and wax and got some interesting results. When I was melting wax into the shot cup I wrapped masking tape around the wad to keep the wax from running out and then removed it after it had cooled. I shot all of the rounds I had loaded since I really had no use for them other than knowing that it could be done. Also, after I had loaded some I asked several ex-military guys what they used to breach doors in Iraq and they all said 00 Buck out of a Mossberg 500.