Black Powder Revolver Advice Needed

[farmall666]

looking to get a black powder revolver so my son can do some cowboy action style shooting. Nothing competitive, just some close range steel plates on our own range.
Looking at the pietta 1858's.
Can't decide between 44 or 36 caliber.
My son is 14, very experienced rifle and shotgun, but new to pistol shooting.
I want a gun he can enjoy shooting without a lot of recoil so he can learn without getting beat up too bad.
How much difference in recoil between the 36 and 44 cal guns?
Can I load charges in the 44 light enough for him to learn on and work up to more powerful loads as he grows or is the 36 cal more suitable??
I have no black powder experience and would appreciate any advice any of you could give.

[JerseyJD]

The 36s may be a bit weak for knockdowns. I have been using 58 Remmies 44 caliber with 25 grns 2f Diamondback bp and the recoil is not bad at all. You could use less powder and even some filler for lighter loads to start. Given the advise of others, I put on Treso nipples and use Remington 10 caps which are getting hard to find. Lots of fun and lots of work at matches.

[Lefty SRH]

I always felt like the .44s felt like model .38spl as far a recoil is concerned.

[Dumpy]

I have the model 1858 in 44 cal. I like it mainly because of the ease I can take the cylinder out to put in a newly charged one. I use a separate loading stand for the cylinder only loading. I use remington caps, They tend to fit on much easier than the cci on my pistol. Which is a remington model. I load with 25 grains of triple 7 fffg powder Maximum load is 28 grains.My 19 old daughter started shooting it last month and thinks it is so Cool to shoot. She has hardly any gun experience let alone pistol experience. I can't keep it loaded fast enough to suit her. I think I have created a monster. She can't wait for me to take her shooting every week. I only started shooting BP last year and usually seek all the advise I can digest. I shoot just for fun. I make my own pads,bullets etc. I only buy caps and powder. I hope that answers you question.

[405]

Since the original Rem NMAs were 44- I'd go with the 44. 36 in an 1858 just doesn't sound right. The 36 belongs in the Colt 51.

Either caliber you choose will require diligent cleaning and maintenance. The 44 will be no harder to clean and maybe even a little easier. You can load the 44 down to whatever level you like- just as long as the ball gets out the muzzle. You certainly can't load the 36 up beyond what the cylinder will hold! Neither one will have bad recoil.

[higgins]

My Pietta .44 Colt 1860 slugs .446 in the bore and the chambers I slugged were .447; smaller than the nominal .451 or .454 diameters for .44 revolvers. I slugged them after .454 balls were excessively difficult to seat. I looked on forums here and elsewhere and found that it was not that unusual for Pietta chambers and barrels to vary from accepted diameters. Before you buy a mold or a bunch of balls, slug your chambers and barrel so you'll get a ball size that seals the chambers adequately, but isn't too difficult to load. Read up on loading and shooting percussion revolvers before you shoot it. It's not too difficult, but there are more factors to consider than you're used to with modern revolvers. I think you'll find a percussion revolver a lot of fun.

[PanaDP]

Don't neglect the single action army and all of its clones. Those are loads of fun loaded as intended with BP and are more versatile than cap and ball revolvers since you can more easily use different bullets.

[Alan]

looking to get a black powder revolver so my son can do some cowboy action style shooting. Nothing competitive, just some close range steel plates on our own range.
Looking at the pietta 1858's.
Can't decide between 44 or 36 caliber.
My son is 14, very experienced rifle and shotgun, but new to pistol shooting.
I want a gun he can enjoy shooting without a lot of recoil so he can learn without getting beat up too bad.
How much difference in recoil between the 36 and 44 cal guns?
Can I load charges in the 44 light enough for him to learn on and work up to more powerful loads as he grows or is the 36 cal more suitable??
I have no black powder experience and would appreciate any advice any of you could give.

I'm going against the tide here, so par for the course. My vote would be the .36's. Frankly, loading down .44's very far is a pain, if you go below about 25 grs. Back off on the .36 load and it kicks like a .22. Load it all the way up and it is like a .38 Spl WC.

The Remington is the magnum of the .36's. It will hold at least 5 more gr. of powder than the Colts, and while the dimensions are somewhat off from Remington's .36 Belt Revolver, pretty much all repro's vary in some way from the originals. I have 4 .44's, 3 Piettas and a Uberti. I have 2 Remmy .36's, and 3 '61 Colt Navies. Generally the Remmy's will shoot a little low, and require the front sight to be filed, which is all to the good. Unlike the '51's and '60's I've shot, the '61's hit to POA elevation wise. Nearly all fixed sighted revolvers hit 1-2" to the left for me, no matter how straight I try to align my hand on the grip.

My Pietta Navies like .380 balls, my Uberties like .375. As a general rule, my most accurate load, and it is very soft shooting in the Colts, is all the Goex 2F I can fit in the cylinder and fit a lubed felt wad down on the powder so that the wad does not touch the ball when it just sits in the chamber mouth. In the Remington, it is about 5 gr. below that level. You will have to experiment a bit to get this right. Generally, the Remmy's have enough travel in the rammer to still seat the ball very firmly against the wad. If they don't, then use 2 felt wads. Don't use petroleum greases for the lube. You can try the packaged wads, but I had better luck buying a sheet from durofelt.com and using a 3/8" hollow punch. one sheet of their felt will make THOUSANDS of .36 or .44 wads. They even have the right felt listed at the top of their products page. They are VERY popular w/ the black powder crowd.

Warning: there is no cure for the addiction you are about to create. There are only....treatments.:bigsmyl2:

[Omnivore]

I'll add to what Alan said. You cna get a Remington .36 and if you want more "knock-down" power, you can load it with heavier "conical" bullets. Lee makes a decent conical mold. The Piettas 1858s, at least in 44 caliber, don't have enough room under the ram to load conicals until you Dremel out the frame. The Ubertis should have enough room as shipped.

I think if I had it to do over again, I'd start with either a '61 Colt Navy, or a '58 Remington Navy (36). Just plain ease of use probably indicates the Remngton.

[troy_mclure]

i picked up a eoroarms new model army .44 for $75 at a flee market. its great shooter and easy to shoot.

both gals i shoot with are recoil shy, and they love to shoot it. i load it with 25gr of pyrodex rs under a felt wad.

[405]

Interesting comments on recoil. Actually the felt recoil between the two calibers using the same charge of FFF blackpowder is very similar using RB. The higher velocity of the 36 cancels its lower mass (weight). The ft lbs energy at muzzle are similar between the two calibers using same powder charges. Easy to use a felt wad and a light 20 gr charge under a RB in 44 cal.

Plus, still just doesn't "feel" right putting little holes in a larger, stronger framed gun like the 1858. :)

top- Remington NMA (1858) 44 cal
bot- Colt 1851 36 cal

[Hellgate]

The 36 Remmies will kick less not only due to the smaller ball/bullet but because they are basically 44 sized frames & cylinders drilled down to 36s so they are almost as heavy as the 8" barelled 44s. The 36s are cheaper to shoot, hold more powder and conicals will give them more knockdown.
The 44s don't really kick that much and can be loaded down with corn meal/cream of wheat or beefed up to 35grs powder & ball or 30grs & 200gr conical. I find recoil only an issue with the 200gr conicals. The LEE CB has easily fit in every make of Remington I have shot them in: Pietta, Uberti, & Euroarms.

I have both calibers of Remington and haven't shot a knockdown in about 2 years (I like KDs). So far no problems with people calling hits on the 36s. If you already have the gear for 44s then get another 44. Same goes for the 36s.

[Bullet Caster]

I love my Pietta 1860 SAA
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_211414efb8083c3396.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3148)
in .44 cal. What a hoot to shoot. Don't even need to be loaded down. I always try to get as much powder (3fg) in the chamber as I can. Then crush the ball down on the powder and lube it up with Crisco and I'm good to go. BC

[farmall666]

Thanks for all the replies.
From the info given, I think he would be happy with either caliber.
His birthday is in a couple weeks. I think I will just take him to the gun store and let him pick out the one he likes the best. I will let you know which he chooses.
Once we get set up we definitely want to start casting our own balls and would like to try making some powder also.

[Omnivore]

...I will just take him to the gun store and let him pick out the one he likes the best.

Excellent idea. He can try them in his hands.

[Good Cheer]

Absolutely best idea. His musculature, his eye and his taste all matter!

[Leslie Sapp]

As far as recoil, just about every one in my family big enough to walk has shot my .44 Colt Walker replica. The weight of the gun pretty much soaks up most of the recoil, even with heavy loads.
I was 4-H shooting sports instructor for many years. Most of the issues with kids stem from their lack of upper body strength. If he is able to support the gun, he should be able to shoot most any moderately loaded pistol or shotgun. For example, we started 6 yr olds out with a .22 rifle, but did not let them take up shotgun until they were 10. Not because of the added recoil, but because we had found that most kids were at least 10 before they were strong enough to shoulder and control a shotgun.