Attempt to make a Taper Crimper on my new Lathe

[DoctorBill]

I have a Thread in this section of Cast Boolits called,
"My First Attempt at a "D-Bit" Bullet Mold"
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=1678832#post1678832

In that thread (which was kicked out of Paper Patch Bullets by a couple of the
residents of that section), I made a couple of Aluminum Bullet molds the hard way.
I used a Drill Press and a newly made D-Bit.

I then was talked into buying a 9 inch Lathe and started a whole new approach
to this hobby.
I now want to learn how to use the new Lathe and to make accoutrements for
my Paper Patch Black Powder Cartridge rifles.

As a second project, I want to learn how to make a Taper Crimping Tool with this new Lathe.

For me it is like when they tried to make an Atomic Bomb for the first time.
The knew nothing and had to try a bunch of new methods and learn quite a lot.

I know next to diddly squat about using this new Lathe.

So I will be asking for advice and maybe even taking that advice - although I
cannot guarantee I will...I know I'll get conflicting opinions and make some of you
angry when I don't follow your words of wisdom.

I would appreciate any help I can get. Sarcasm is not required.

So the first thing is to come up with a design.

I have a machinist friend, Gary, who made a Taper Crimping Tool for me
for an 1873 Martini-Henry 577-450 rifle.

I watched him do it, so I know just enough to hurt myself at some point !

That is Gary's Taper Crimping Tool on the bottom right.
http://www.mynetimages.com/5fc82e4683.jpg

I am now off to a Graphics program to design it.
Have to start with some goal in mind - not just chuck up a round bar stock and start cutting.

If anyone conversant in making these crimpers can chime it - God Bless you !

As I remember, Gary drilled into some steel round stock to some point, then used a cutting
tool to ream out the first part of the inside up to the inner shoulder.
He threaded the tool and knurled the end.

I do not remember how he cut the taper at the top.
I do remember he was VERY careful in doing it since even a thousandth too much cutting
would have ruined it.

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

So - I want to make something like this.

http://www.mynetimages.com/877d655b74.jpg

I have to learn how to bore out the inside of this tool.

How long should it be ?

I have to learn how to thread - it should thread into my LEE
press.

Biggest problem - how do I bore a very shallow taper ? !
...and not screw it up by making too large a diameter - top or bottom
of the taper.

What type of steel should I start with ?
Don't think Aluminum would work - too soft.
Doesn't need to be harder than the hinges of Hell, however.
I won't be making all that many cartridges.

Wish I had taken shop in High School ! I wanted to be a Chemist then.

This ought to be interesting....I wonder how many attempts it will take ?

DoctorBill

[Bent Ramrod]

Do you have a copy of "How To Run A Lathe" by South Bend Lathe Co? Or a copy of "Manual of Lathe Operation" by Atlas Press Co? Either of these books will get you started on turning, boring and threading operations on the lathe. There are sections on how to grind the tools for these operations as well. I think Lindsey Publications publishes at least the first book. The second ought to be available from the Clausing in Kalamazoo, MI. Best of all would be to see if your local Community College has a Machine Tool Operation course available. I hung on in the local one here for six years; if they hadn't phased the courses out, I'd still be taking them.

You can set tapers on your compound rest with a test bar and a couple of dial indicators, but buying a machine tool is like buying a Barbie doll--the accessorizing never ends. A bevel protractor, some hole gauges, micrometer, thread micrometer, thread gauge, dial caliper, etc., etc. all would be handy for the crimper you want to make.

Don't give up. The late great Rudy Kouhoupt started out as a chemist and changed directions to become a modelmaker and master machinist, and writer on the subjects. I myself started out on the same false path and now at this late date am trying to catch up to my true destiny. It's never too late!:mrgreen:

[DoctorBill]

Bent Ramrod - Yes. I have the Manual of Lathe Operation" by Atlas Press Co on a CD.
Also bought "How to Run a Lathe" on CD.

Been reading them.

Wish I could take that course - kinda like having sex after reading a book about it.
Not the same.
Women won't hurt you like a Lathe can if you do it wrong....

I am afraid of it - the Lathe that is.

Women too, BTW....cost more than Lathes do. In the long run.

I got a lot out of watching my friend Gary work on his Lathe.

But he wails and I go REEEEAL slow...it scares me.
I've caught myself leaving the Key in the Chuck.
Bending over the spinning chuck.
Almost ran the tool into the work too fast....get impatient.

But I'm getting better at it. Excuses....excuses....

DoctorBill

[Frank46]

Check out machine supply houses like MSC, Travers Tool, Enco. See if they have any 7/8"x14tpi
threaded rod. Comes in 3 foot lengths. Usually not expensive. This will give you plenty of stuff to practice with and if you goof up one just cut off another piece and start over. Machines and polishes well. Frank

[DoctorBill]

Frank 46 - OMG ! Never thought to start off with a threaded Rod !
Kinda bypasses me learning to thread...but what the heck !
Thanks for the suggestion ! THAT'S why I like coming here !

I'm looking thru the ENCO and Grizzly Catalogs for parting off holders.

Grizzly sells "kits" for mini-lathes that have all the stuff (+) that I need,
(p 641 2012 catalog plus middle p 637) while ENCO does not....strange.

ENCO's prices are 10x Grizzly's !

Rather buy ENCO - no state sales tax for me.

DoctorBill

Edited in 4/18.....I ordered the above said threaded rod from ENCO !
Along with 8 oz of "Layout Fluid" a "Carbide Finishing Stick"
and a saw blade for my band saw.

Then I ordered a "parting Tool Holder" from Grizzly for $11.50 and a
second HSS parting off Blade for $5.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Cut-Off-Holder-w-Blade-3-1-2-/H2970?utm_source=google&utm_medium=productlisting&utm_campaign=google%2Bproducts


ENCO wants $75 for their cheapest small one !

My Lathe Tool Post is so small that even with the smallest Part-Off
tool, I need to grind it down. Bottom of toolpost to work center is only 5/16"
(0.313").

Grizzly has a nice 17-Piece Quick Change Tool Post Set (T10166) for $130.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/17-Piece-Quick-Change-Tool-Post-Set/T10166?utm_source=google&utm_medium=productlisting&utm_campaign=google%2Bproducts
Ordered one !

It is for small 'Toy' Lathes like mine.
I would hope the center bolt will fit the holder in the above set.
Might have to make a new center bolt on this very Lathe...

These Catalogs are like a Toy Catalog to a Kid - for me !
I want all them thar goodies !

[DoctorBill]

My ENCO 9"x20 Lathe broke !

I was turning a 1 inch steel rod.
Just started up the Lathe after I had been turning the rod to reduce the diameter
when I heard a snap or a thud.

Wasn't sure what had happened - the Lathe kept turning...so I turned it off.

Looked all around - nothing - so I turned it back on.

Then I noticed the Leadscrew was not turning.

Looked at the gears in the transmission, the belt, - ????

Long story short - the "Keyed Bushing" between the two big gears in the "Quadrant Assembly" shattered.

http://www.mynetimages.com/8c2f1c3713.jpg

This is the Keyed Bushing that makes both Big Gears turn together.

http://www.mynetimages.com/8a38dff3ec.jpg

This Keyed Bushing holds the two gears together so they turn simultaneously
and transmit power to the Leadscrew thru the transmission.

Here is the shaft and bushing together w/o the two gears.
http://www.mynetimages.com/cde17c7b0c.jpg

No idea why it broke, but that event boogered up three teeth on the
plastic gear between the Spindle and the Leadscrew.

Has anyone ever had something like this happen before ?
No idea why that bushing broke.
My friend Gary thinks it looks like it is a formed and sintered steel piece.

E-Mailed ENCO to see if they cover it in the one year warranty -
(the Keyed Bushing and the Plastic Gear)
they answered that the Warranty Department will call me....

DoctorBill

PS - Rcvd the threaded 7/8x14 tpi metal rod from ENCO.

[2Tite]

Depending on what cartridge case you want to make the taper crimp die for.......You may be back to making a d-bit "reamer". Some cases make take one larger than you want to make but you can taper the d-bit "reamer" on the lathe to suit. Perhaps a combination of boring and reamer will get you to where you want to be..........

[dragonrider]

You can bore it but making a reamer will give you a much better finish that will be much easier to polish. Make the reamer first, then drill, bore and ream the die. One thing about makeing the reamer is you will be able to see what you will end up with without have to peer into a hole and work blind so to speak.
Bummer about the lathe.

[DoctorBill]

Yes...I like the "Reamer" idea...to me it seems like a much more elegant solution.

DoctorBill

[longbow]

+1 on what dragonrider said.

I was going to suggest the same thing. After all you now have a means to make a D reamer... at least after the lathe is repaired.

Any relatively high carbon steel can be used. Annealed (heat red and cool slowly) turn to shape, polish, cut in half to the centerline (D bit), hone the flat face, heat red and quench, polish, heat until a straw colour. That should cut steel fine when done.

Alternately you might just case harden using something like Kasenite.

I have used medium to high carbon steel for D bits and in one case I case hardened a piece of misidentified steel that would not heat treat hard enough. Automotive head bolts work well if you can get the right size but steel rod should be readily available in high carbon grades.

Agreed, bummer about the lathe.

Longbow

[DoctorBill]

The Lathe still runs fine - just no turning leadscrew.

http://www.mynetimages.com/a0aa2a1ac8.jpg

I am waiting for ENCO's Warranty Dept to call me.

Been turning a one inch rolled steel (Iron) rod down to 0.875 from the one inch
just to get some experience on the Lathe.

It is too large to go into my spindle, so it is held by the Chuck only and GARY
suggested I drill each end enough to insert the LIVE CENTER -
which I did.

I will still have a go at making a Taper Crimper Tool out of the steel, even
though I now have 7/8x14 threaded rod available.

Might make one with each starting material.

I'm using Gary's Ground tool and it cuts fine, but I get a rough rod with
ridges on it.

No matter how slow I go, it still has a rough ridged surface.

http://www.mynetimages.com/4eb5879608.jpg

BuckShot ! - You might recognize that Live Center !

DoctorBill

[buyobuyo]

If you're running the lathe by hand, you most likely not going to get a smooth finish. Or at least, I can't get a smooth finish by hand that way. You want to let the lathe do the feeding and go slow. Increasing your RPM would also help.

[DoctorBill]

I switched to a 1/2" Carbide Bit that BuckShot sent to me.
Had to grind down the bottom of the entire bit's length to center the bit
on the work.

http://www.mynetimages.com/5746f292e0.jpg

My 4x4 ToolPost is small and the bit was about 40 thousands too high.
Probably should let Gary mill the bottom of the ToolPost so that 1/2" bits
all set at the right height "out of the box."

I will increase the RPMs also.

QUESTION:
Both This Carbide and Gary's HSS Cutting Bit cut when going toward the HeadStock
(Yellow arrow)
But cut a LOT MORE when I reverse the direction away from the HeadStock
(Blue arrow) w/o changing the depth at all. i.e. Same Depth !

Doesn't matter how slow I go, same thing always happens....seems odd to me.

Can anyone tell me why that happens ? 'splain it to me ?

DoctorBill

PS - Upped the rpms to the next inner pulley slot and the bar is now smoooooth !
Lord - how obvious ! Experience ! I feel foolish.
Still keep cutting much more off when I go back vs going toward the Headstock,
Could something be loose ? Checked everything....

A Thought - Does this have something to do with the slop (backlash) in the Carriage ?
Pushing the bit vs pulling the bit ?
Gary tells me that I can't do anything about carriage backlash. All his machines have it to
some extent.

It would be nice if one could lock the Carriage Position during cuts.

[dragonrider]

Carbide vs high speed steel, what you are experiencing is from spring back, you are getting more spring from the carbide tool because carbide is not as sharp as high speed steel. One can get high speed steel to be very sharp, not so with carbide because it is brittle and the edge breaks down, it will only get so sharp, not like steel. So because of the duller edge of the carbide tool it is pushing harder on your tool post, crosslide, and the workpiece also. The benifit of carbide is higher speeds and longer life and many times a better finish when everything is working right. On your machine I would suggest you not use carbide as it requires more horsepower than high speed steel tools.

[Chicken Thief]

A round tip is the "only" thing that will give a fine finish in one go.

http://www.glanze.co.uk/acatalog/Lathe_Profiling_Tools.html

[DoctorBill]

Believing in "Experimention" myself, I tried something.

If the heavier cutting occurring on the travel away from the HeadStock
(to the right) were due to the backlash "Slop" in my Carriage, then were
I to push the carriage toward me from the rear of the Carriage while going
to the right, the cutting I see while going away from the HeadStock would stop occurring.

IT DID !

So this oddball business is due entirely to the back and forth Carriage movement - about 1mm slop.

If this is "Normal" ....hmmmm.....

I don't like it.

Maybe I can devise a way to clamp the Carriage down after I set the cut depth.

DoctorBill

[Bent Ramrod]

Generally, carbide does better with rapid feeds and fairly heavy cuts. However, your small lathe will probably not tolerate much of either (that may be what cracked your bushing in the first place). So you will have to find the happy medium through that sadistic taskmaster "Experience." Order a couple extra bushings and anything else that looks fragile once the Warranty people get hold of you.

What you are seeing going back and forth is springing of your tool, carriage, the round stock you are turning and the bed ways of the lathe itself as the tool presses into the work and makes the cut. Remember the old bromide about the 98-lb woman in heels pressing down at thousands of pounds per square inch because of the leverage and geometry. That is what you are doing with the point of that tool.

The reason you are cutting well on the back stroke is the angle of the tool is more extreme, giving a long lead in on the cut, therefore less pressure pushing the work away from the edge of the tool. Get used to this; it is inevitable with a small machine. You will have to "take the spring out of the work," i.e., make a separate pass on the work without advancing the tool, probably every twenty thousandths depth you go. Keep checking with your micrometer to see what your final size gets to be after the tool stops cutting. This is how a machinist "learns" his machine.

I usually take a .005" cut at the slowest carriage feed on steel with my 6" x 21" Atlas although I have gone deeper if the steel is soft and the tool is sharp. This is with High Speed Steel, rather than carbide, which I seldom use. I would suggest you do the same (or less) until you figure out what the lathe can stand up to.

Chicken Thief is right about a rounded tool making for a good finish. Your lathe books should show the shapes of a knife tool for roughing and a rounded tool for finishing. You may have to change tools to get the finish you want after taking the work down to close to size. You may even have to learn to file the spinning work (and endure the disgusted snorts of your friend Gary) to get the size and finish close and then continue polishing with emery and crocus to get it exact. You may wind up wondering how these skilled mechanics and tool-and-die people make it look so easy and quick.

Don't ask me how I know this:mrgreen:.

[DoctorBill]

In just about all endeavors, if you ask five people how to do something,
you'll get five different answers and each one will do battle if you disagree
with them.

"...rapid feeds and fairly heavy cuts. ....that may be what cracked your bushing in the first place"
You have no idea how opposite to what you said I am going !

I am taking minimum cuts and going slow as a snail.

This machine scares the puck out of me !

It took me a couple of days to get used to the noises it made at the lowest
speed that I could run it at (used Aluminum stock).

I just changed it up in speed by one belt position.
It makes a whole new set of noises now.
I've stopped several times and am going to go back and check the lubrication
points in the manual.

I expect it to explode in my face at any time !
Will the bit crack off and send it flying into my face ?
I saw Gary feed too heavily and his machine jammed to a stop.
I'm waiting for that to happen to me...I'm taking about 0.002" cuts as
slow as a snail.
Gary takes what must be 7 or 9 thousands cuts and traverses fast !

I am scared to stand close enough to watch him !

My Lathe has a 3/4 HP motor. Uses a "100" ToolPost or AXA size - I believe.

The Carbide tip seems to work well so far at my very modest feed speed.
I am now pulling the Carriage back toward me when I reverse my direction and
I get little or no "Extra Cutting".

Someday, I'll be giving advice to some rookie (God Help him!) and I'll
swear that this is how it is done !

BTW - I almost have this rolled iron rod down to 0.875 (7/8") diameter....3.5" long.
Has taken me two days with a lot of off time staring at it.

DoctorBill

[Longwood]

Geeeez Bill
I could have sworn a member sent you a bunch of aluminum to practice and learn with so you would not break your new toy.

[DoctorBill]

Why do you assume that I myself broke my new toy ?

Actually, I don't think it is possible that I did anything to affect that Keyed Bushing
in the Quadrant Assembly.

Maybe the "T-Nut" was loose and those Gears were wobbling.
Could that have done it ?
I didn't notice how that was put together until the bushing broke.

Gary tells me normal Lathes use a two key bushing there.

I have been wondering whether or not I could cut a bushing and then hand cut a
keyway with a file and thus make my own Keyed Bushing !

Was that bushing made with sintered metal for some reason other than economy ?

DoctorBill

[Longwood]

Was that bushing made with sintered metal for some reason other than economy ?

DoctorBill


The piece that broke, is probably made as the weak link.
Some lathes use a tapered pin that will break before the operator can cause major damage.

Also,,, back off on the tool instead of dragging it back across the work. Most lathes will drag the tools going back if you don't back it off. Use a dial indicator to get the tool back to where you want the next cut to be.

How is reading the books before you try something new, working out for you?

[Longwood]

My teachers were constantly handing out reading assignments.
I hated them.

I could never read a whole paragraph of boring gooply goop without my mind wandering to designing a boat or figuring out how to dam the creek so we had a place to float one.

[DoctorBill]

The book I am reading shows all the equipment and generally how to use it.

Nothing specific so far that applies to what I am doing.

I suspect that I need to take a hands on course and use a Lathe while an
instructor looks on.

Mostly I need to get over being afraid I'll break something.

After that bushing broke - through no fault of my own - I am even more
worried.

I should try 'backing off' and only going right to left.

This CD I am reading (How To Use A Lathe) refers to cutting speeds and an Appendix
but it has no appendix.

Has an equation (4 x SFM) / Diameter = RPM

I'll have to go onto the Internet to find that information.

Just found this:
http://its.fvtc.edu/machshop2/speeds/rpmcalc.htm

Big problem - I wouldn't know one Steel from another, nor alloys, nor Aluminum's nor
squat...

Just assuming that I need 400 SFM for this Rolled Iron Rod with Carbid bits, then
that works out to 1777 RPM for an 0.9 indh diameter rod.
That is essentially the top rpms of my machine !
At 300 rpms it seems to scream !

I now see why I should use HSS at 500 rpm

DoctorBill

[Longwood]

Taking a class is an excellent idea.
I should do it myself.

Make something out of aluminum.
Buy some brass or use some of the stock I sent too make something a lot smaller than the material diameter, so you get some experience removing metal..
You will be amazed at how much easier, and much more fun, aluminum or brass is to machine than steel.

[DoctorBill]

I did make a mold out of Aluminum. I agree about ease of machining.
But, that was my previous Thread.

The idea was to start a new project.
Which this is.

In Steel of what ever alloy this is:
http://www.mynetimages.com/e63bd7dd5b.jpg
Why - why not ? - something to practice on - available here - inexpensive.

Gary said Cold Rolled (if I remember correctly) - it has a hard crust around it.

Need to figure out the cutting speed for it from the chart
http://its.fvtc.edu/machshop2/speeds/rpmcalc.htm

Am I correct in reading the chart - around 120 to 180 fpm if using HSS tools ?

DoctorBill

[R.M.]

Hot rolled. CRS doesn't have the scale.

[DoctorBill]

If Hot Rolled, then a cutting speed of ~ 160 sfm for HSS tools ?

Plain Carbon Steel ? What do you call this stuff - besides Hot Rolled ?

I removed the scale with a file and a grinder and Gary says
I can use Muriatic Acid, if I want to.
The grinder is faster and much more convenient....

My Lathe is going 300 rpm which for my 0.9" dia rod is ~ 68 sfm. Yes ?

The CD Book, "How to Rrun a Lathe" says there is a wide range for cutting,
so it would seem that I shouldn't go nuts over what speed I use.
i.e. Don't lose sleep over it....

DoctorBill

[R.M.]

Sounds slow to me. Just use carbide to cut the scale off. Then you can use the HSS tool.

[nanuk]

I played with a guy's lathe one day, trying to make an insert to indicate off, to align a barrel so I could recut the start of a chamber, then rechamber, as my 'Smith reamed it way off center

I was using a brass bolt, some 8" long, and 5/8" diameter.

he forgot to mention I should center drill and use a center to hold it.. it was SOOOO springy, that I was unable to reduce it without a taper. No follow rest (?) to use on this lathe

[DoctorBill]

Showed the Quadrant Gears, the Broken Bushing and the spindle they all
spin on to my friend Gary.

He thinks I should either make or buy a solid bushing (Where ?) that fits and then clamp the
two gears together and drill two holes where shown (in the photo) and
put roll pins in there.

http://www.mynetimages.com/5a8fa9aaa5.jpg

I was wondering - if the bushing is supposed to be of a 'break away' sort
of thing, why not use some large dia Aluminum Wire instead of the roll pins ?

ENCO is replacing the bushing and plastic gear on the one year warranty,
but it will take a while for them to obtain the parts...

I also received and am adapting a 'Quick Change Tool Post' from Grizzly
($130) to my Compound.
http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/t10166_m.pdf

Will need to use the Lathe to make a new bolt for the center to fit it.

http://www.mynetimages.com/f003c29572.jpg

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

I determined that I could adapt my new Quick Change Tool Post to my Lathe's
Carriage Tool Post bolt by drilling and tapping a 9/16" bolt from the hardware store.

My Tool Post Bolt is 8mm x 1.25 (it is actually 7.6mm x 1.25 !) and 1.3" of threaded part.
I can use the 9/16th bolt as an internally threaded rod to screw down over my Toolpost
bolt and then put a nut on the 9/16th Bolt to hold the Quick Change Tool Post on my
Compound.

http://www.mynetimages.com/98f089fcae.jpg

I cut the 9/16ths x 6" bolt and drilled it out on the Lathe to 1.3" deep with a TiN Drill Bit..

Went fine.

Then came trying to Tap the 8mm x 1.25 hole with a Harbor Freight Tap.

Just stripped the tap like it was made of Aluminum ! See close-up below.

http://www.mynetimages.com/da40fcf273.jpg

Have to go to ACE Hardware and spend some cash on a good, hard 'Merican made Tap...

DoctorBill

[Longwood]

[QUOTE=DoctorBill;

I was wondering - if the bushing is supposed to be of a 'break away' sort
of thing, why not use some large dia Aluminum Wire instead of the roll pins ?

Yes,,
WEAK LINK
That is what it means.

[Longwood]

Then came trying to Tap the 8mm x 1.25 hole with a Harbor Freight Tap.

Just stripped the tap like it was made of Aluminum ! See close-up below.

Have to go to ACE Hardware and spend some cash on a good, hard 'Merican made Tap...

DoctorBill

Anneal the heat treated bolt.
Or, start over with a piece of material you can work with then harden it.

[DoctorBill]

I wondered about heating the bolt, but then I know so little about that sort of thing,
that I figured I'd really booger it all up. It cut easily on my Bandsaw and drilled easily.
It can't be all that hard. I've seen HARD METAL and this ain't it.

Gary is off doing 976 of his own things that I hate to bother him.
The weather is finally becoming nice and he is always outside fixing a forklift
or outboard motor or some machine. I think he had Cabin Fever !

Taps that strip away the cutting edges on a simple bolt that drilled out easily can't
be worth much !

Not like I run the tap in with a lathe like Gary does, either.

This tap just folded and ran like France.....and an 8mm tap is substantial.

Are Chinese Taps only good for tapping into butter ?

DoctorBill

[dragonrider]

Bill does your compound have a T-nut slot in it??? If so why can you not redrill the t-nut that holds the tool post to 9/16 for the bolt that you have???

[Swede44mag]

I am with you Doctor Bill I have used cheap taps in the past and they just don't cut it (pun intended).
Buy a better quality tap and let us know how it worked out.

I am looking into buying a 'Quick Change Tool Post' for my Atlas lathe.
I made a tool post in metal shop but did not make it adjustable for height.
I would also like to have one with a boring bar capability.

It has been interesting reading your posts if a person pays attention they can always learn some good tips.

[DoctorBill]

My compound does not have a "T-Slot" Bolt to hold the post.

It is a Bolt with a round head press fit up into the Compound Base.

http://www.mynetimages.com/f96dac0863_th.jpg (http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/f96dac0863) Thumbnail Image - Click for Large Version of diagram.

Gary wondered what it was and pushed it out using an Arbor Press.
He then pressed it back in. There is a "Roll Pin" in the Round Bolt Head to
keep it tight. Part numbers 8 and 18 in the diagram.

The Bolt itself is only 2.8" long with 2.3" protruding up from the Compound Base.

I could cut that 9/16ths bolt head into a round head and drill out the Compound Base,
to upsize it, but if that base got boogered or didn't work out for some reason, I'd have to buy
a new Compound from ENCO and their replacement parts come at a dear price !

They want $11 for that Bushing and $45 for that 80 tooth plastic gear if I were
to want extra ones.

As some of you said - this Lathe is a Money Pit !

So - I am trying to adapt this new Quick Change Tool Post (Size 100) to
my Lathe w/o altering the Compound in any way.

It should work fine - it isn't a Big Brutish Industrial Steel Cutter....just a
little 9" hobby Lathe.

DoctorBill

[HollowPoint]

Why do you assume that I myself broke my new toy ?

Actually, I don't think it is possible that I did anything to affect that Keyed Bushing
in the Quadrant Assembly.

Maybe the "T-Nut" was loose and those Gears were wobbling.
Could that have done it ?
I didn't notice how that was put together until the bushing broke.

Gary tells me normal Lathes use a two key bushing there.

I have been wondering whether or not I could cut a bushing and then hand cut a
keyway with a file and thus make my own Keyed Bushing !

Was that bushing made with sintered metal for some reason other than economy ?

DoctorBill



Most experienced lathe users and owners will base their answers or responses on the type of lathes they're accustomed to using.

When a question of a broken part comes up their generalized answers makes sense from the perspective of their particular machine but, these 9x19 lathes aren't the machines they're used to using.

Some of the small parts on these machines aren't made of cast iron; or steel for that matter. They're made of some kind of cheap alloy that doesn't take much to break, crack or shear off.

I mentioned a while back that a small part on my Cross-Slide Broke. I ended up making a new one myself out of better materials. This might be an option for DrBill.

The point of all of this is that you don't necessarily have to do anything wrong for one of these weaker parts to go bad on you. "SH!T Happens" and they break all by themselves.

I got an email from Grizzly telling me that the part that had broken on me was still on back-order and they didn't know when they expected to get more of them. This was over three months ago.

This tells me that I'm not the only one who's experienced problems with that particular part. This may be the case with the part that the Good Dr. is now having to deal with.




HollowPoint

[DoctorBill]

Thank You - HollowPoint !

Everyone I talk to about this "happening" seems to try to make me feel
like I myself did something bad ! Even the ENCO Warranty guy on the phone.

It gets to the point where you even start to think you DID do something wrong !

Like a Cop questioning you and looking skeptical...you start to feel guilty of SOMETHING !

I, personally, being a nice humble fellow who wouldn't hurt a fly, was beginning
to think I boogered the Lathe somehow....

Yes...possibly that scintered bushing was cracked when it was placed on the shaft.

Maybe....but I am innocent as the day is long !

Really...I don't care any more. Wracked my brains trying to figure out what
I (the bad guy) did to break it.

Even Gary seems skeptical when I talk to him about it....

Well....I will fix it and it will be stronger and better than when I got it.

Take that !

Time for a bowl of Chili and a beer ! The food of the Gods !

I like my chili soupy...Nalley's with Tabasco.
http://www.mynetimages.com/dbe1aed3ec.jpg

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

I want to share something Gary did today that made my jaw drop !

Bought two 9/16 4140 Hardened Steel Bolts with nuts and washers.

I did as described earlier and took it to ask Gary some questions.
He tapped the rod with a "Gun Tap" - two sided spiral point ?
Zip - Zip - All done ! Explained AGAIN about heat treatment.

While we were talking he casually fixed the threads on both bolts w/o ANY tools
whatsoever and did it in less that 2 minutes !

When you buy bolts in a store, the threads are usually boogered up because they've been
banged around in shipment or handling. The nut usually hangs up part way along the bolt.

I always used to put the nut in a vice and tightened the bolt into the nut to let the nut reform the
threads. No....no.....

While we discussed this and that, he tapped on the nuts and within seconds the nut threaded
onto the bolts all the way !

I stopped him and asked, "What the Hell ! How did you DO THAT !" He grins at me and explains
something a fellow showed him years ago. You need no tools and can do it quickly.

He turned the nut onto the bolt and when he got to a part where it turned hard or got stuck, he
rotated the bolt so the boogered up part was facing up.

Then he tapped the nut lightly with the other bolt cap. Done !
He turned the nut again until it bound and repeated the above...

The NUT threads reformed the bent screw threads by being tapped down onto the bent bolt threads !
Pushed the threads back into place ! Light tap or two. Done ! No tools... OMG !

http://www.mynetimages.com/465cf368f8.jpg

Try it ! Go slap a bolt's threads on something hard and see how quickly you can fix the threads with
the Bolt's own nut !

He said he's fixed boogered up keyways on the front end of crankshafts (where the vibration damper goes)
when the owner was ready to go buy a new crankshaft.

Gently tapping with a punch and a light tap hammer.
Push the malleable metal back to where it belongs...easy as pie !

Same with boogered up screws from old GUNS.
Put the screw in something with a hole in it and start gently tapping the bent
screw head metal back toward the slot. Easy.

Then tap the screwdriver blade into the slot to push the metal back into place if you went a bit too far.
FIXED - Looks nearly new (polish it now).

OMG ! This guy is amazing. Mr. Wizard of Tools (all you old guys know who Mr. Wizard was !
Don Herbert. In the 1950's on live TV. He is on You Tube. He got me interested in Science.).

Now - all you old, experienced machinists....don't go posting a reply telling me you learned this when
you were five years old !

I am 69 and I NEVER, EVER saw this done before.

It was like magic ! No tools required and you could do it in an outhouse or on some deserted
old dirt road, in the rain, whilst drunk...if you could see the bolt that is.

I came home and tried it myself on an old bolt.
Worked great in my outhouse after I had 8 beers....then I dropped it in the hole by accident.
Oh well - it did work ! I won't go retrieve the bolt to prove it though !

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

I finished adapting the Grizzly Quick Change Tool Post to my ENCO
9"x20" Bench Lathe.

My tool post stud to which I attach the tool holders held either a "Four Way
Tool Post" or a crude but effective swivel clamp.

I wanted to adapt a $130 Grizzly Quick Change Tool Post (QCTP) to my Compound.

Why - 'cause it is Cool, man !

So here are the parts I made to do it.

http://www.mynetimages.com/e89765b1ee.jpg

My Tool Post is held on by a 10mm based steel rod stud of nominal 8mm metric
threaded rod at the top.
My TP Stud is not a "T-Slot" set up.
See photo.

The Grizzly QCTP has a 14mm hole in it to hold the QCTP to the compound
with a 14mm threaded rod.
It thus has a 14mm hole in the base.
Above that is a long sleeve of 14.8mm ID to 22.4mm OD and is 61.2mm long.
That is the way it is made....

I made a 10mm ID 14mm OD Bushing to fit the base of my TP Stud into
the base of the Grizzly QCTP.

Then I drilled and tapped a 9/16ths bolt to screw onto my TP Stud to hold
the Grizzly QCTP to my compound.

All this is shown above and here is the finished product, below.

http://www.mynetimages.com/14d2607fa3.jpg

Again - My TP Stud is not a "T-Slot" set up.

Maybe some of you with one of these smaller Lathe's might like to have a
QCTP that doesn't cost $500....
http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/t10166_m.pdf

DoctorBill

[dragonrider]

Well done Bill, looks good.

[Longwood]

That looks good Bill.
That holder will sure make things quicker.
I love how it can get the tools right where you need them with a simple adjustment. Especially when boring.

The surgeon said I could go ahead and shoot with the broken clavicle, so I shot a bunch of bullets from the two smokeless powder paper patch 45-70 molds, I made, over the last few days, and am pretty pleased.
The only problem I had was with the long Malcolm scope that the rear mount does not work on. There is no elevation adjuster,, how ridiculous to make a buyer have to buy it as an accessory.
I get to make some parts or spend $40+, whichever I prefer.
Now comes the fun part, hitting sometimes one minute, then missing for no sensible reason, the next.
Working up loads can be very frustrating, but fun at the same time.:violin:

[DoctorBill]

LongWood - Isn't a Clavicle a Musical Instrument ?

You must be very talented to be able to play a musical instrument while shooting a rifle !

I like the fact that with this QCTP, I can adjust the height of my bits simply
by raising them to the correct height and turning the handle to tighten it up.

Now I could shim the bits to the proper height when the tool holder is on the
Post, so that it can simply be dropped into place and be correct.

But, If I want to change tools, I have to phart around again with the shims.

But being a lazy, old SOB, I don't like to do that....Pull out the dead center and line
everything up, etc. etc.

Then yesterday I saw something on the Internet while cruising around
trying to learn anything I could about the Lathe.

http://www.sherline.com/accessor.htm#latheacc which has this link in it:
http://www.sherline.com/3009inst.htm

Hell...what a great idea !

So, I freshly sharpened a Wood Pencil, put it in my Chuck and rotated it by hand
to make sure the tip was in the center, then took an Aluminum Block
and scribed a line by sliding the block across my flat carriage on the pencil tip.

Made this:
http://www.mynetimages.com/95205a70c6.jpg

Nothing but an Aluminum Block with a pencil line marked on it.
If the Carriage is wiped off, I simply sight the Bit tip to the pencil line and
turn the Post Handle tight.

The Bit is now on the Center Line....

No shimming - no pharting around.....ain't life neat !

DoctorBill

Question - can I use Aluminum for a Bushing for those two Quadrant Gears ?
They won't be turning fast nor with much torque load on them.
At least, temporarily. Don't have any Bronze around....
Would NYLON work ? I'd think so....
My replacement Bushing won't be here for several weeks.

[john hayslip]

Let's face it. Carbide takes a powerful lathe and an uninterrupted cut for best results. Unless I'm trying to cut really hard metal I usually try to use High Speed (HS) tooling. Arthur R Warner Co., P.O. Box 1 Latrobe, Pa 15650 arwarnerco.com 724-539-9229 makes inserts of HS and sell the tool holders for them too. I just found them a couple of months ago but so far have had very good luck with their products. Really like their cut off blade too. I believe they'd have a tool holder that fits your QCTP. You can get various rounded tips on their inserts and it looks as though you get 6 usable tips per insert.

Micro-mark, a hobbyist tool company sells a lathe similar to yours and has many relatively inexpensive accessories to it - including a digital readout. (micro-mark.com) I've had good results in my dealings with them and enjoy reading their catalog. They have a set of already ground HS tools for many different uses.

Instead of just heating steel red-hot to harden it - heat it until it goes non-magnetic (as tested with a magnet) which will be in the red range. The point where it goes non-magnetic is where steel has a phase change and hardening can occur. No use heating it any hotter as it will do more harm than good.

AGI (American Gunsmithing Institute) has a lengthy course on the lathe and also one on the mill too. Not cheap but if they're anywhere near the quality of the rest of their products they are well worth it. If memory serves me correctly they are taught by Darrel Holland who does the spring kits for the Remington 700 trigger (which I really like) that Brownell's sells.

[Longwood]

Some of the tool posts have a screw, with a lock nut, down through them for adjusting. Very handy

You can use a nice sharp tool tip, set at the exact height you want, to scribe the line in the block so it does not slowly disappear.

I would think aluminum would work just fine for the bushing.
Make one then if it fails, I can send you enough bronze to make one.
I suspect the tiny teeth on the gear will let go before an aluminum bushing.

If you are going to machine aluminum, look up how to grind the tools. The proper rake angle can make a lot of difference.

[DoctorBill]

I actually made a 'pretty' Aluminum Bushing for these Quadrant Gears to keep them aligned.

http://www.mynetimages.com/f65a2b86df.jpg

Not too damned shabby !

Think I'll have a beer to celebrate....

I believe that I will try for a NYLON Bushing later on.....Not Bronze.

My only problem....the center ID is 10.0mm and I don't have metric drills.
I used a 13/32" which is a tad too large.

Suppose I could have used a 25/64" and honed it bigger....
I'll see how this works. I'll use GRAPHITE to lube it or Lithium Grease (Both mixed?).

Edited in later: Finished it....

http://www.mynetimages.com/84e5462cb4.jpg

Two holes thru both gears lined up with the Aluminum Bushing and the key hole slot, also.

Aluminum wire tapped in tight and spread with a punch.

Labeled because I did not have the where-with-all to do it symmetrically.

&$@^ %#& &^$@ *& - came out a mm too short !

In my haste to cut it off, I encroached on the length I had measured and now
the bolt that holds all to the T-Slot squishes the gears and won't permit them
to rotate....Dirty-rotton-shaderapin'-blasted-fladerapper !

LESSON - make it longer - you can cut off excess. Make it too short - Duh ?

But THAT squeezing of the bushing is a good reason not to use Aluminum...!
..or Plastic, even. Has to squeeze the bushing pretty hard.
Bronze or sintered steel or even Brass is called for...Bugger !

Oh well ...... it was practice on the Lathe. Came out looking nice.

I'll go mow the Lawn...at least I can do THAT OK.

DoctorBill

[Chicken Thief]

For my center height measue i made this:

Height adjustable.
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Til%20andre/R0010869.jpg
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Til%20andre/R0010871.jpg

[DoctorBill]

Hot Damn, Chicken Thief, I like your method even better !

BTW - How many times have you stuck yourself with that point ?

I will soon be off to make one ! Thanks for the picture....

Maybe now I can get back to working on my Taper Crimp Tool....

DoctorBill

[R.M.]

Bill take a look here.
http://www.hardinge.com/usr/PDF/tooling/1318.PDF
Page 32, Adjustable Tool Setting Gage

[DoctorBill]

Holy Mackerel !

My friend Gary just called.

I had told him by E-Mail that my bushing was too short and it allowed the Gears
to be squished between the holding bolt ends.

He said that that cannot happen if it is set up as I described it.

By God - he is right !

http://www.mynetimages.com/81945fcbf7.jpg

AND....AND....He said that that is perhaps the reason why the original part broke !

The Old Sintered Steel Broken Bushing is 0.625 long and the Axle Bolt is
0.609 long where it holds the Gears !

So - the Bushing was being crushed by the Axle Nut used to hold the Axle
Bolt in the T-Slot on the right !

http://www.mynetimages.com/e7769e16f4.jpg

When I get the replacement Bushing, if it is longer than the Axle Bolt Center
Section, I need to grind it's length down to where it won't be crushed.

Ha ! The Chinese screwed up ! They made the Bushing too long.

ENCO is going to have an ongoing Warranty Problem with this Lathe if all
those Quadrant Gear Key Bushings are too long ! Which I would assume they are...

I E-Mailed the Warranty guy and explained this to him...can't say they weren't warned.

By tightening the T-Bolt down so it wouldn't wobble, one crushes the Bushing !

And Gary fingered that out from my photos and explanations...

Why didn't you guys finger that out ?

I assembled it again and my Bushing works great !

Gary even said I should slip a piece of felt into the now empty keyway slot
and put oil in it to keep the Bushing oiled all the time !
The Aluminum should not go dry that way and should be OK.

Do you see ! This Gary is a genius ! He should be given an Honorary PhD
in Machining....

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

Question for all you's Machinist guys.

Are the Tool Fixtures that slide into the Quick Change Tool Holders standardized ?

http://www.mynetimages.com/2d9be4515d.jpg

Grizzly doesn't even know - they don't have "parts" for it...clerks !

I would assume (***-u-me) that mine are either "Series 100" or "AXA" sized as
seen in some catalogs (smallest size), but Grizzly is of no help !

If I measured them, no catalog gives the dimensions in any case.

Not measured correctly with dowels (no idea how to do that!) but here is something...
http://www.mynetimages.com/96895af71d.jpg

They may all be "proprietary" - individual to that manufacturer - yes ?

I like the way people sell things....here it is, take it as is or go away.

Whine !

DoctorBill

These people have low priced ones...
http://www.cdcotools.com/index.php

[C.F.Plinker]

I can't answer your question but the folks at Little Machine Shop probably can. In looking at their catalog, the holders for the 0XA, AXA, and BXA tool posts (all made by Tormach) have different catalog numbers so my guess is that a holder made for one model of toolpost will not work on another model.

http://littlemachineshop.com/

[DoctorBill]

From what I have been reading Aloris started all this and everyone copied it.

I cannot find actual dimension anywhere - anybody ? !

I could spend the $20 for one just to find out if it fits from
http://www.cdcotools.com/index.php
but that seems a piss poor way to determine it !

Edited in Later (5-2):
Grizzly says these are for Series 100. They should say that in their future Catalogs !
Think I'll by three of them from CDCO Machinery for $8 each instead of $20 each....
http://www.cdcotools.com/index.php

Edited in 5-7-2012 Rcvd from CDCO Machinery 3 for $38 instead of $74 (shipping $14).
They fit just fine - Series 100 (AXA).
http://www.mynetimages.com/ea51e05492.jpg

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

Just for FYI.

The 80 tooth Plastic Gear is the same for the Grizzly G4000, my ENCO 9"x20
and the JET BD920. (From the Yahoo 9x20 group)

Grizzly sells that gear in Metal for $18 (P4000119A) - I backordered one.

This place has the Plastic Gear in stock for $40 (Part No 1014)
http://www.waltermeier.com/us/en/splash.html
specifically - https://parts.maam.waltermeier.com/Parts.aspx?part=1014

Just thought this information might be of use to someone....

I am continuing on with my Taper Crimping Tool.

I 'think' I figured out the threading gearing, set it up and engraved some lines in a
plastic rod with turning the spindle by hand. Looks like it made a 14 tpi groove....

The Lathe has the gears set now for 8 thru 14 tpi.

My 'homemade' bushing is too loose to try running the Lathe by it's motor, so
I am awaiting the replacement bushing before trying actual threading. I'm Chicken !

I also need to grind a thread cutting bit. 60° - right ?

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

How many reading this thread have a Chinese Lathe ?

ENCO doesn't have the parts I need 'in stock' - they say they'll have to obtain them.

Grizzly doesn't have the gear in stock - coming in June....

Is this "Normal" ?

Maybe people shouldn't buy theses Lathes because Chinese Factories don't
make much (any ?) effort to support their products.

ENCO, Grizzly, Jet, Harbor Freight should have a good stock of replacement
parts on hand and it appears that they do not.

If we have to wait months with the Lathe idle or are forced to make broken parts
ourselves, then it should be widely known to the buying public.

Most low cost tools are 'throw away', but a $1,000 Lathe is just too going far.

Just poor business practice.

DoctorBill

[C.F.Plinker]

How many reading this thread have a Chinese Lathe ?

ENCO doesn't have the parts I need 'in stock' - they say they'll have to obtain them.

Grizzly doesn't have the gear in stock - coming in June....

ENCO, Grizzly, Jet, Harbor Freight should have a good stock of replacement
parts on hand and it appears that they do not.

Most low cost tools are 'throw away', but a $1,000 Lathe is just too going far.

DoctorBill

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1106&category=

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3450&category=

The plastic gear is $7.20 and the metal gear is $21.95. Neither listing says that it is out of stock.

[Longwood]

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1106&category=

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3450&category=

The plastic gear is $7.20 and the metal gear is $21.95. Neither listing says that it is out of stock.

While you are there Bill, check out their belt drive in replacement parts.

I just ordered a quick change tool post set and one of those DRO gadgets that I plan on using with very strong magnets so I can move it from place to place.

Do you still have the four jaw chuck that was not made correctly?
If you do, do you want to sell it?

[DoctorBill]

LongWood -

"check out their belt drive in replacement parts."
I got a belt from KAMAN bearings - a Gates Belt for $11.

"Do you still have the four jaw chuck that was not made correctly?
If you do, do you want to sell it?"

My friend Gary says he can fix it quite easily - so I plan to keep it.

Sorry....

I have contacted "Walter Meier" a JET supplier, Harbor Freight, and Grizzly for the
Bushing for the Quadrant Gears.

The Metal (instead of Plastic) gear in on order from Grizzly...

It sure puts the kibosh on ordering Chinese Machines from places like ENCO
when they are known for not having replacement parts in stock and people
have to wait for months to get those parts (if ever !)...

Why would anyone buy from them if their reputation is bad ?
I certainly didn't expect this !

Edited in later - Just now ordered the Quadrant Gear Bushing from Walter Meier
for $9 (in stock).
https://parts.maam.waltermeier.com/Default.aspx ......a somewhat obtuse web site.
It is for the JET BD920 Lathe - let's hope they are the same !


DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

After pharting around with Life, obtaining Lathe Parts, A Relative visiting,
teaching Chemistry, having back problems and this and that.....

I am back to working on the Taper Crimping Tool.

Using the "Mild Hot Rolled Rod" I cut down the diameter to 0.875" and
that portion is ready for threading (when I get my Quadrant Gears Bushing
from Walter Meier - a JET Dealer.......May 14th !).

I am now drilling out (0.500") the wider portion to allow the 45-70 Cartridge to enter
the Taper Crimper Tool to a depth of 1.4" before getting to the taper portion.

http://www.mynetimages.com/033c7b8184.jpg.

I am waiting for Gary 'the Machinist' to have a look at my Lathe.

I think the Leadscrew turns kinda hard compared to all the other things in the Headstock.

Don't understand why the Leadscrew and the gears in the transmission would turn hard when
the selection lever is down (not engaged).

Wondering if something in the Apron is too tight....everything is well oiled !

BTW - I am going to acid etch 1, 2 and 3 into the Lathe Chuck to number the jaws so that
I can put anything back into the Chuck exactly like it was when I took it out. Nitric Acid.
Cut out the number from paper towel paper, lay it out on the Chuck metal and just wet the paper
with the acid. Won't take long and will look good. That last part is important....

I scratched a mark on both ends of the Taper Crimper to align that with the number one Chuck Jaw.

I'm having fun....this is a blast ! The Lathe is less and less intimidating to me of late.

Gary had one of these (15th Ed) - ordered this one from e-bay.
I personally didn't want all the "Modern" CNC stuff in the new ones - old fashioned, I guess....

http://www.mynetimages.com/1d239c031c.jpg

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

Almost there !

Turned the outside. Hot Rolled "Mild" Steel.

Drilled the inside. 0.500" bottom - 29/64ths top.

Now to Taper the inside top end
and
Thread the outside (when I get my bushing for the Quadrant Gears).

http://www.mynetimages.com/003fafa203.jpg
FOUR photos cut and pasted together with different views using PHOTOSHOP.

This Lathe Business is fun and interesting but a back zapper !

DoctorBill

[Chicken Thief]

May i suggest something?

Make a "standard" 7/8"-14 threaded bushing that takes incerts and secure them with a set screw.
That way making a new incerts is way less work and experiments are bur a breeze.

[DoctorBill]

Chicken Thief -

A most interesting idea !

Perhaps I will try it sometime.

Interesting - the ideas people come up with....

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

I am almost finished with the Taper Crimper Tool....

Here I am very, very carefully boring the Taper.

The angle is less than one degree. I tried using a dial indicator
while traversing the Compound to get an idea of where to set it.
http://www.mynetimages.com/38652d9509.jpg

I ground a "Tool" from 1/4" HSS to look like things I saw on the
Internet. Long Story Short - it did work !
It is not a pretty sight, however....
http://www.mynetimages.com/fd1fe03651.jpg

Here it is without threads.
I had to shorten it in order to keep the Internal Boring Tool as short as feasible.

Monday I am supposed to get a JET Bushing from
Walter Meier. I hope it fits my ENCO machine.
http://www.mynetimages.com/064d2866f3.jpg

DoctorBill

[Buckshot]

..............DoctorBill, in all that junk I sent you were some drill blanks. These make outstanding boring bars themselves. It's pretty pbvious that the front clearance is pretty much already there. All it takes to use one as a form tool is light grinding on the cutting edge side, to allow the created edge to cut.

http://www.fototime.com/1A2CF5D48D44712/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/822F5471FA0DC35/standard.jpg

This one has more grinding then required, had it been used in a larger hole. This is a form tool used for making a swage die. The drawing obviously is not to scale as it shows the cavity MUCH larger then the tool, but it's like that for clearities sake. Rigidity requires metal, and the more metal there is in cross section, the better off you are. It follows that a round boring bar in a round hole is going to give you that.

http://www.fototime.com/811E61A8FA7F4C5/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/44F25A73466923B/standard.jpg

LEFT: This one was ground to create a flat bottomed hole. RIGHT: This is a home made boring bar, and uses a drill blank as a bit. I believe I also sent along a bunch of long extension bits. You can cut the shanks off to use as cutting bits, small boring bars, and form tools.

http://www.fototime.com/CEDC98E134CF0F2/standard.jpg

Here's that home made boring bar again. In this instance a drill bit shank has been ground to cut threads and is sticking out the opposite side of the bar. Since this turret head is only spaced off the faceplate a 1/4", I didn't want to have to deal with disengageing the half nuts while watching a dial indicator. Instead the spindle turns in reverse with the tool feeding out.

http://www.fototime.com/707B9410AE70036/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/45CD03553B4765E/standard.jpg

You can make up these square holders for the drill shank boring bars. This one is just a piece of keystock. This one was split with a hacksaw but a slitting saw makes a neater cut. Regardless, it works. The drill blanks and drill bit shanks make great grooveing tools for snap rings, E clips and O rings.

http://www.fototime.com/CE15995FD55CC09/standard.jpg

My facing tool is a 1/4" drill blank in once of those square blocks. The end is ground with backrake but no siderake. It has (as you can see) been ground with a 1/8" radius. Done this way it will work with the spindle running in either direction and gives a very nice finish.

.............Buckshot

[DoctorBill]

BuckShot -

I thought of using the round drill blanks, but not having much knowledge
of grinding bits, at this stage, I opted for bits I had seen on the Internet.

Grinding bits looks to be an art by itself...and I have a lot to learn.

I wanted to make a D-Bit, but my friend Gary said that for Steel, I would want
a small cutting surface.

A large cutting surface, like a D-Bit, would chatter and maybe grab the work.

Aluminum is OK, but not hard stuff.

In any case, I went REALLY slow and cut at most about 0.002" per run.
I was very worried that the bit would grab the work inside and break something really violently.
Didn't happen, but I kept visualizing what could happen.
I'm still scared of this thing !

I almost overshot, Too !

I have to remember that for every thousand'ths I cut, I get two thousand'ths
off the diameter of any rod I am working on - Inside or outside !

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

After a long odyssey of learning the Gears on my ENCO Lathe and practice
threading Aluminum Rod, I am finally ready to thread my Taper Crimping Tool -
then comes some reloading !

Here is a 7/8" x 14 TPI Aluminum Rod next to what I compared it to.
It fits the LEE Nut and into my LEE Presses just fine.
http://www.mynetimages.com/51ae5593e3.jpg

Except now, after deburring my Leadscrew, the Carriage seems to bind up.

Looks like I will have to disassemble it to see what gives.
Probably has metal chips in the works, but we'll see.

Lathes must be like women - needing constant attention and fussing with !

DoctorBill

[HollowPoint]

Hi Dr. B:

I've been following your ordeal with this new lathe of yours on the yahoo forum as well as on this website.

It grieves me to hear that you seem to be encountering one obstacle after another. I too, experienced a few problems with my Grizzly G4000 but, most of my problems were due to my lack of experience with this particular lathe.

I've had my lathe long enough that eventually I'll have to start making replacement parts to take the place of worn-out parts. Other than the part I mentioned in one of my previous posts, that has yet to happen though.

If or when I do have to start making my own parts for this lathe, the frustrating thing will be that alot of those replacement parts have to be turned. (turned on a metal lathe) It's hard to make replacement parts for my metal lathe if my metal lathe is not running due to worn parts that need replacing.

I made my first replacement part a couple of months ago with my CNC hobby mill. So far it's been working like a champ. Almost like I knew what I was doing.

My initial attempts at threading turned out like absolute KaKa. The guys over on the yahoo 9x19 lathe forum were real life savers. With their help I was able to re-barrel my old Enfield rifle.

It turned out that I was using the correct gears but, I had them in the wrong positions. I was inadvertently cutting metric threads rather than the thread pitch I should have been cutting.

It's a good thing I was using practice materials before I cut into my hundred-dollar barrel blank.

I'm glad to see that you're moving forward and slowly traversing that learning curve associated with these bench-top lathes. I wish you all the best with your future projects.

HollowPoint

[DoctorBill]

"It grieves me to hear that you seem to be encountering one obstacle after another."

Don't be too worried.
I put all my problems on one forum or another so that others who have the same problems
can learn from my mistakes, problems and fixes - for what it is worth to anyone.

BTW - I took my Apron-Carriage apart today (5/21), lubed it and reassembled it.
Now it works like "Nominal"....the way it is supposed to.
Don't know what was wrong, but now it's right.
Onward.

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

Well...I'll be damned !

I actually did it !

http://www.mynetimages.com/540bdc835a.jpg

I finished the Taper Crimper Tool without screwing it up !

I almost did, though. The threads are rather crude looking.

Lost track of the turns on the Carriage Wheel when I got going too fast.

Whew !

It fits in my LEE and RCBS Presses.

OK - I shot off 40 rounds of 45-70 Last week, so now I can test this
Tool on some new Paper Patch reloads and my home brew PP bullets.

I love my H&R 1873 Springfield Trapdoor 45-70 Reproduction !

Nice shooting rifle.

Just have to figure out how to secure the Creedmore Rear Sight better
that I have it.

I guess that brings this thread to a conclusion.

No use posting anything about other projects....since I am now an expert. lol

DoctorBill

PS - My Carriage is back to making the grinding sound.
I believe it to be the Rack - It must move. Readjust and lock it down.
See if that stops it.

[smokeywolf]

DoctorBill,

If that is your first go at single-pointing a thread, your doing better than most machinists who are on their 6th or 7th try. A wire brush and/or ScotchBrite pad will smooth your thread surfaces out a little.
Also, I recall an entry regarding procuring tooling for your lathe. The tooling is often more critical than the machine (lathe, mill, drill press) itself. Buy the best quality you can afford. Watch fleaBay for solid carbide boring bars. Criterion boring bars are also worth having. PTD "Precision Twist Drill" or Chicago LaTrobe are pretty good drills. Your boring tool (form cutter) that you ground for your mold was a good first effort. I think Buckshot suggested grinding the drill blank he sent you. He's right on track! Drill and reamer blanks are extremely handy for grinding into boring bars, form tools, and punches for punching out shim stock or any material that might be used for making say, gas checks. I use them sometimes just to clamp an indicator on.

Regards,

smokeywolf

[R.M.]

Bill, I've been following this from the start, and I applaud you for your success on your first project.
Being in the trade for over 40 years, I think I'm qualified to give a bit of advise.
When turning a piece like that, start with about twice the material than you need. Hang the whole part out of the chuck, and leave it there during all the operations. You'll get better concentrically, with less effort.
To clean up the threads a bit, take a triangular file, and roll over the crest of the threads. It won't affect the fit of the threads if everything is cut right.
Again, well done.

[HollowPoint]

Well done Dr. Bill:

You are an inspiration to many. You've now earned your Doctorate
in 9x19 metal-latheology.

HollowPoint

[DoctorBill]

"When turning a piece like that, start with about twice the material than you need.
Hang the whole part out of the chuck, and leave it there during all the operations.
You'll get better concentrically, with less effort."

Oh yes !

That was a lesson well learned !

All the while I was doing the threading, I was wishing that I had cut the
piece off to size AFTERWARD !

Live and learn as my machinist friend Gary says.

One seems to learn by making misteaks....

Gary has told me a lot of things which I just didn't hear because they
didn't mean anything to me at the time.

Now I remember them....too late. But maybe not.

I plan to 'wire brush' the threads to 'dress them up'.

The term to dress up a tool has new meaning to me now.

So...what's next ?

Think I'll buy one of those 3 gallon Air Compressors from Harbor-Freight
next week.
They go on sale for $39 and I have three 20% off coupons in my wallet.

I could use a motorized wheel buffer, too - buffer one side - wire brush wheel on
the other side.

Learn to weld better than the hideous messes I make now.

Maybe I can make an artificial heart for when I get into my 80's...
if I live that long.

My Compound flexes a tad...thinking of buying a $55 compound holder
made for these 9x20 lathes.
My Compound is held by two T-Nut bolts.
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4135&category=1963256897

Anyone bought one of these ? Comments ?

DoctorBill

[smokeywolf]

DoctorBill,

Not familiar with this part or kit. Smallest lathe I've spent time in front of (a lot of time) is a Hardinge HLV (tool room lathe). The lathe that resides in my machine shop/tool crib/storage/gunsmithing/reloading/etc. room is a 17 x 40 gap-bed engine lathe. Not much rigidity problems.
Are there any locks (clamp screws that lock your slides) on your carriage, cross-slide, or compound?
I don't recall seeing any evidence of cutting oils in your pictures. What did you use on your O-1 steel?

[DoctorBill]

No carriage clamps on this machine.

I tried something that my friend Gary suggested - rubbed candle wax on the work !
That really made it go easier !

Then just for the grins of it, I added some drops of ATF, also.
That also worked.

I know you can buy any number of things as cutting oils.

That comes later when/if I really get into producing a lot of work.

Here is my machine:
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=893-1273

DoctorBill

[bearcove]

If you want a short cut take a die that is smaller inside than you want to ream. Aneal it then cut with your reamer. It might not last forever if not hardened but it will be close.

[smokeywolf]

DoctorBill,

Waxes work relatively well, but steels machine better with oils. Purified lard oil for steel, Crisco and waxes work well for aluminum. If you choose to purchase dedicated cutting fluids, consider A-9 for aluminum, and Moly Dee for ferrous steels.
Although it is cost prohibitive, in a pinch I've used Rapid Tap. Lubricity is minimal, but volatility is great for carrying away the heat.

smokeywolf

[Buckshot]

............Dr Bill, just wanted to let you know, I've not made a mistake yet. However I HAVE made lots of parts for stuff that hasn't been invented yet. :popcorn:

To add some suggestions to what smokeywolf mentioned for cutting. I use old time stinky dark sulferized cutting oil when cutting threads, either single pointing or with a die. If you're pushing it (the thread cutting) it WILL smoke, so have a fan behind you. :-)

http://www.fototime.com/BA6361C20C96D6A/standard.jpg

If I'm threading from a 'set point' on multiple parts, or if there is a feature, I'll run the spindle in reverse and thread from the backside. That way the tool runs off the end of the part, and not INTO a shoulder etc :shock:

For aluminum I use WD-40, but I don't do much with aluminum.

.............Buckshot

[DoctorBill]

The only mistake I've made so far is leaving the Key in the Chuck and
turning the Lathe on....

Went flying, luckily. Didn't hit the Ways !

Right now I am in the process of making a Spindle Hand Crank to manually
thread with.
I've tried using the Leadscrew and gears, but they are just too damned
fast for me.
No time to react for a 'beginner' like me !

I found a Used (beat up) Aluminum Machine (Lathe ?) Hand Wheel at a local Machine Shop
(Bixby Machine Tools) for $5.......7.5" (19 cm) with a hole for a handle.

Here is what I have done so far.
Using a 1/2" Black threaded Water Pipe and a Flange which I faced and cut down in diameter.

http://www.mynetimages.com/f2e6291b6f.jpg

http://www.mynetimages.com/31c4044460.jpg

http://www.mynetimages.com/2de50b1fb9.jpg

http://www.mynetimages.com/7603f0c53a.jpg

Here I am turning some Hot Rolled Mild Steel to construct the "Ram" that will
be forced into the internal end of the pipe to expand the slotted portion to
hold the pipe inside the Spindle.
http://www.mynetimages.com/f4030e4e82.jpg

I can't figure out how to make a very slight (1° to 2°) Taper on the rod.
I wanted to make a slight but long taper - maybe a 3 inches long....threaded inside.
0.625" one side up to 0.635" on the other end by 3 inches long.

A LONG, slight Taper will make more of the flanges contact the inside of the spindle.

The Tail Stock holding the Live Center gets in the way of the Compound holding the tool.
Even if it didn't get in the way, its travel is too short !

My thought is...I'll have to use a file and file down one side on a slight taper.
Maybe make steps with the tool then file that into a taper....not much metal to remove.
I'm too ignorant of Lathes to know any other method.

DoctorBill

PS - THAT is YOUR live center, Buckshot ! I use it all the time !

[dragonrider]

Have you tried offsetting the tailstock to cut the taper???

[DoctorBill]

I don't understand the offset Tailstock business !

That requires the Faceplate and Dogs, does it not ?

How can you spin a rod out of alignment with the Chuck ?

DoctorBill

[dragonrider]

A dog yes, faceplate no. I don't know about your lathe but most lathe tailstocks are adjustable from side to side. To make a taper one can move the tailstock to one side or the other depending on which way you want the taper to go. You can use your chuck to hold a piece of scrap stock, turn a sixty degree point on it, and that is your center. attach a dog which can be anything that will drive the piece by resting against one of the chuck jaws. Now you just you just turn your taper as you would a straight piece. This link will give you a good idea of how it's done.
http://www.technologystudent.com/equip1/mlathe3.htm

[HollowPoint]

That's good work DrBill:

When I started learning how to thread with these small lathes I ran into the same problems you have. I just couldn't engage the threading lever fast enough to get my threading tool to fall into the same groove every time.

I thought about making one of these hand cranks until I came across an internet link that explained Step by Step how to cut threads with the 9x19 metal lathes. For a straight uninterrupted run of threads, the info supplied by that "link" really worked out great.

Now I'm revisiting the idea of making a fixture like yours to cut threads where a shoulder is involved. When your part has a shoulder that the threads have to butt right up against, I think that your hand crank set up would be the way to go. At least for me.

I'll have to rummage around my junk parts out back to see if I have any thing I can use.

HollowPoint

[DoctorBill]

The Crank Wheel with or without a handle is your choice and whatever
you can find to use.

The Crank Spindle or Rod can be a pipe or turned metal rod.

If Pipe, then probably what I did.

If turned Rod, then you'd probably go with the bicycle handlebar clamp
with the 45° or 30° cut on the rod with a long screw to tighten it.

Some guys drill & tap the Belt pulley and put on a simple crank.

Inelegant, modifies the pulley and I prefer to have a wheel to turn by hand
for the finer work.

The Internet is FULL of links to various and sundry Lathe hand cranks. (Google).

I decided to make a short 2.5" threaded taper and just cut a taper on the
end of this rod while still in the Chuck.

I have drilled it out with a 15/64th drill, then drilled half way in with a 5/16ths
preparatory to tapping it for a 3/8ths by 16 bolt half way thru.

http://www.mynetimages.com/ccd4149e89.jpg

Then I will taper it, cut it off, flip it over and drill 1/2 thru with a 13/32" drill.

The bolt will thread on the threads and if it goes past them, it will be free to go on.

That way I can pull it in as far as I want w/o having to thread the entire taper.

http://www.mynetimages.com/7b42c8eb94.jpg

My only problem is that I don't know exactly what max vs min taper to cut.

Guessing right now. "Improvise, Adapt, Overcome" -Gunnery Sgt. Tom Highway.

If it is too big, I may file the slits on the pipe so they lay flat inside the spindle.

I will either make a set screwed bushing for inside near the crank or spot weld a
washer there so that when I loosen the bolt, the taper is forced back out
w/o the bolt coming back out the Crank Wheel end.

I won't have to tap out the taper like some folks do.....

DoctorBill

[Longwood]

The part the tool holder is bolted to will turn. Right?
If it will, set it at one degree and feed it manually, with the silver knob we can't quite see, to make the taper, instead of the feed.
If that is not enough taper, set it at two degrees and make another cut to see if it is more to your liking.
It is not set in stone, you can make the taper about any length you want.

[DoctorBill]

Yes - that is the Compound set to ~ 2° (more or less).

It does not travel very far....

Yes, I know not to traverse - I would just be cutting the rod lengthwise...
which I have been doing.

(As an aside - how do I get the slowest Feed Speed out of this Lathe ?)

The Compound hold down clamp is loosie goosie as far as exactly where the two T-Nuts will go.

Setting a good exact angle is a joke with this set up !

http://www.mynetimages.com/a2f2425d88.jpg

LittleMachineShop sells a 4 bolt Compound Hold-down for this Lathe for $55.
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4135&category=1963256897

I am sorely tempted to buy it so I can set angles better and have the compound be more stable.

Like I've heard said - a Lathe is a money pit....

DoctorBill

[Longwood]

I could not tell how your lathe was made by what you were showing us until the last photo.
You may need to tighten the gibs a tiny bit if the compound is loose. Trying to set them with no tight spots, on these cheap lathes, is not always possible without some way scraping.

[Longwood]

[QUOTE=DoctorBill;1731382]


(As an aside - how do I get the slowest Feed Speed out of this Lathe ?)[/B][/I]


Simple,,, start at motor with smallest pulley/gear to biggest to smallest to biggest etc etc,

[Longwood]

For the last 20+ years, I have been using a five inch piece of round stock with a square ground on the end that I can use to turn the chuck by hand.
Cost,,, maybe two bits,,, time to make,,, maybe five minutes...:kidding:

[DoctorBill]

Longwood....

? ? ?

Pictures ?

[DoctorBill]

Almost there.

http://www.mynetimages.com/432a509656.jpg

The Internal Pipe Ram is finished. Doesn't look pretty, but it is what I diagrammed previously.

I will have to drill it and insert a small pin into the taper such that the Ram
can't spin when I tighten the bolt - will ride in a slot in the pipe.

Hadn't thought of that before....'modifications to the plan'.

Edited In Later Today:

Finished !

http://www.mynetimages.com/92cc1b7db4.jpg

http://www.mynetimages.com/fffee7c088.jpg

http://www.mynetimages.com/deee62d0e5.jpg

Had to make an End Bushing for the bolt.

Works great. THAT was fun ! Total cost - about $10.

Now I need a project that requires threading !

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

I have been visiting a Yahoo Group called the 9"x20" Lathe Group.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/9x20Lathe/

On there, someone posted a link to a LATHE ACCIDENT which makes me
VERY VERY respectful of my new ENCO Lathe !

I am going to post the link below - but be warned...it is HIDEOUS if you have not seen it.

I know we are all "Big Boys" here, but this may give you nightmares.

http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=41444

I wonder if that poor guy even had time to know what hit him ?

Imagine seeing that happening and having to run over there to turn the Lathe off !

DoctorBill

PS - I have ordered a LEE Mold which I plan to bore out for a Paper Patched Bullet.
Lee will leave off the handles (not crimp the pins down) if you ask them.
Now I just have to learn how to get a 4 jaw chuck to hold an item at 90°
and
to find the center of a previously made hole !

[bearcove]

Yeah when his shirt/jacket started to wrap he went OH SHI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Buckshot]

PS - I have ordered a LEE Mold which I plan to bore out for a Paper Patched Bullet.
Lee will leave off the handles (not crimp the pins down) if you ask them.
Now I just have to learn how to get a 4 jaw chuck to hold an item at 90°
and to find the center of a previously made hole ![/QUOTE]

http://www.fototime.com/2235C21F3A083BE/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/4E82C710D2AEAC9/standard.jpg

Using a TI (in a ho-made holder) to center a cavity. Your book, "How to run a lathe" should have that info too.

............Buckshot

[DoctorBill]

I received the LEE Mold with the handle pins left uncrimped.
Just ask them and they'll do that !

Ready to bore the existing holes out to make a .445 cal Paper Patch
Bullet cavity about 1.2 inches deep.

I found out that placing a block into a 4-Jaw Chuck does not mean it is
automatically held with the face parallel to the Chuck Face !

So I designed and made this simple set up tool to help get any block's
face parallel to the Chuck Face - 90° to a Drill.

http://www.mynetimages.com/63b96b773b.jpg

I chose Epoxy Steel versus a wire welder because it give me time to make sure
the Metal plate (Old Hack Saw Blade) is positioned flat to the Chuck Face.
Also, I can take it apart if need be.

I will use this Home Made Center Finder to set up the existing cavities centered for boring.

http://www.mynetimages.com/2ec9c1c8a9.jpg

DoctorBill

PS - I make my own 'Epoxy Steel' by adding Powdered Aluminum to the Epoxy as I
am mixing it up.
Powdered Aluminum - just add paint thinner to 8 oz of Aluminum Paint - let the Aluminum
settle out, decant & wash & settle 3x with more paint thinner - decant & let dry.

[Buckshot]

I will use this Home Made Center Finder to set up the existing cavities centered for boring.

http://www.mynetimages.com/2ec9c1c8a9.jpg

DoctorBill

...........That's a dial indicator, no? I may be totaly discombobulated here as to what you're trying to accomplish, but two things. One is that a dial indicatior (DI) is made to have the load on it's probe loaded PARALLEL to the probe's axis. A test indicator (TI) is designed to have the load PERPENDICULAR to the probe. Or in other words the DI's probe works 'In & out', pretty much on outside OD's. The TI's probe works on a pivot, and may swing in an arc, up and down or side to side depending on your point of reference. It will work on ID's and OD's alike.

Do you plan on having that screw head riding on an OUTSIDE surface, or will the DI be held upright with the offset screwhead riding inside a bore?

...............Buckshot

[DoctorBill]

Dial Indicator in use to find center of cavity in a Bullet Mold Block.

I don't know how else to describe it, Buckshot !

http://www.mynetimages.com/513b9d9080.jpg

Seems to be working - cost me zip to make.

I might actually change the screw at 45° to a small piano wire with the
end rounded off - maybe bent to shape.

Now I can re-bore the cavity to what I want using drills and my "D-Bit"
previously described.

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

Lee 0.312 Double Cavity Mold - the Handle Pins were not crimped in by request.

Widened the 0.312 cal Cavity up to the shoulder of the D-Bit ogive with a drill.

http://www.mynetimages.com/98ff97d941.jpg

Used my old 0.438 D-Bit to scrape out the cavity - did the last part using my hand crank
for control & 'feel'.

http://www.mynetimages.com/7b003677d4.jpg

A quick pour yielded a 406 grain paper patch bullet with a nice round nose.

http://www.mynetimages.com/6fe2f70308.jpg

I will save the second Cavity for some different bullet shape.

More to come later - pictures of good bullets from a hot mold....

DoctorBill

[Longwood]

Looking good Bill.:-)
It appears your "Online Apprenticeship" is coming along nicely.:kidding:

A short drill, may work a little better

[DoctorBill]

Ya, every new project is scary until I actually 'do it'.

Having a Lathe sure is nice !

I think I will form a 'snub nosed' D-Bit for the second bullet in that mold....
and yes, some Screw (Short) Drills would be nice to have.

Someone here did one.
I'll have to find that shape and post it, although I kinda like bullet shape
number three below...

http://www.mynetimages.com/907d494b68.jpg

Don't know...should do some reloadin' an shootin' now !

Edited in Later:
Here is the shape (Rojelio's) -
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/rojelio0/imag016212.jpg

DoctorBill

[Longwood]

Ya, every new project is scary until I actually 'do it'.

Having a Lathe sure is nice !

I think I will form a 'snub nosed' D-Bit for the second bullet in that mold.

Someone here did one.
I'll have to find that shape and post it, although I kinda like bullet shape
number three below...
Don't know...should do some reloadin' an shootin' now !

DoctorBill

You can also mill on your lathe with a simple attachment. Then you can work with weights by milling the top of your experiments.

[DoctorBill]

On the 9x20 Lathe Yahoo Group,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/9x20Lathe/
I have read that by the time you get that all set up, you might as well
buy a Mini-Milling Machine for around $600...

New or 'used'.

Hmmmmm.

DoctorBill

[Longwood]

On the 9x20 Lathe Yahoo Group,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/9x20Lathe/
I have read that by the time you get that all set up, you might as well
buy a Mini-Milling Machine for around $600...

New or 'used'.

Hmmmmm.

DoctorBill

They sell the attachments used also.
You can then use them on a machine that you already know the quirks of.
I see them on ebay a lot but the vices often get sold separately and the vice has more demand and seems. to sell high.
Mine is an older one but a good one and I can set it up in about 5 minutes then put it in a draw when I am done with it.
I saw one at a road side sale, a few weeks ago, that had a badly chewed vice but it was nice and tight still.

[Buckshot]

..............Dr.B, A gentle suggestion. You might want to think about splitting this portion of your thread off and re-naming it. You're now doing something different with your lathe. A new project, and it probably would attract so more posters. Just a thought.

Those boolits in your post #102, the ones pictured numbered 1-4 are for a Whitworth ML'ing rifle, and intended to mechanically fit the bore.

http://www.fototime.com/0AF53E3DEEEAD3F/standard.jpg

I have one (Parker-Hale repro), 100x as many conicals were fired from them then the 'shaped' slugs.

Longwood,
You can also mill on your lathe with a simple attachment. Then you can work with weights by milling the top of your experiments.

Ah now, don't you know those things are dangerous!?

http://www.fototime.com/D0D7C3047FBF5E8/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/E5745333F6A7CCE/standard.jpg

I had a dual toolpost cross slide and used that to mount a Palmgren toolpost milling vice.

http://www.fototime.com/6AF3BE634A683B4/standard.jpg

It's all I had before I got my turret mill and I did a LOT of stuff with it. So long as you work within it's envelope they do a fine job, and when you need a slot and you have to use a lathe they're a lifesaver. Sure you can creatively cobble something else up to get it done, but they sure make it simpler. If you think you might be interested in it (it's now excess to my needs :-)) shoot me a PM.

Dr. B, you might want to buy yourself a piece of ground flat stock, say 3/16" x 1.5". A piece 18" long will give you twice the material you need. Cut 4 suitably sized lengths to use between the chuck jaws and the mould blocks. It will keep the jaws from marking the blocks. You can also leave the 2 jaws bearing on the sides of the blocks snugger, while you use the jaws bearing on the ends to traverse the blocks for boring consecutive cavities. The blocks will slide easier between them then with the jaws bearing.

Also the plates on either end will be extra beneficial in spreading their load, instead of javing the jaws bearing directly on/across the parting line. Looks like your setup did a fine job. Good job! Looks like you're on your way.

...............Buckshot

[DoctorBill]

Tomayto - Tomaahhtow.

I wondered about a new thread.....

There are more opinions than hairs on your head. Take your pick !

I am going to a Craig's List Garage sale tomorrow morning with a Milling Machine for sale.....

In the end it is the cost or price that talks the loudest.

I wonder what is in store for me ?

All these new things I have to learn !
I wish I had done them when I was 40 instead of near 70 ! Am I too old ?

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

Buckshot - From what I have been reading about my Chinese 9x20 Lathe,
I wonder if my Saddle and Cross Slide is strong enough to mount a vice
on for milling ?

I bought a Steel 90° Block with the intentions of mounting a Drill Vice

http://www.mynetimages.com/393b99dfc6.jpg

and also bought a cross vice from Harbor Freight to use with my Drill Press.

http://www.mynetimages.com/1884d42b70.jpg

I just don't know.

DoctorBill

PS - Splitting this part off - Don't know how.
Anyway this Mold part is pretty much done with.

[Buckshot]

Buckshot - From what I have been reading about my Chinese 9x20 Lathe,
I wonder if my Saddle and Cross Slide is strong enough to mount a vice
on for milling ?

I bought a Steel 90° Block with the intentions of mounting a Drill Vice

.............You have those nice "T" slots in your cross slide with which to mount your angle plate. So far as your cross slide's strength goes, I'm sure it would be just fine as you won't be doing any heavy (or even moderate) milling with it. If you did need a deep and/or wide slot, you'd simply do it in steps.

So far as being almost 70, as long as you're willing to you can still learn.

................Buckshot

[DoctorBill]

I would like to ask you fellows in the know.....

Would this be worth buying for the price asked ?

http://spokane.craigslist.org/tls/3126354385.html

DoctorBill

PS - "So far as being almost 70, as long as you're willing to you can still learn."
The flesh is willing, the brain is.....what was I going to say ?
Time for my nap.....

[smokeywolf]

I would suggest you put that $425 toward something a little bigger and more rigid. I'm afraid the lack of rigidity of a machine like that will be very frustrating to you when trying to produce a good finish on anything other than aluminum or soft brass.
I would hold out for a used Bridgeport or Bridgeport clone. Yes, it will probably cost you $1800 or better, but the jobs you can do on it are limited more by your knowledge, patience, and imagine than by the machine.

smokeywolf

[dragonrider]

I would also say no,

[Longwood]

It would be a fairly decent home shop press. I would be hard pressed to pay over $300.
A milling machine? Not quite,,, but it would do light stuff fairly well. By "Light stuff", I mean stuff like we do a lot of. Small shallow cuts with little end mills and you could do some nice stuff with it. Buckshot's aluminum and brass point was right on.
A Brideport or even a used Chinese mill would be a lot better as you learn to use it for bigger and better things.

Have you had a chance to do any tests with bullets from the molds you made.
I loaded up some hard, large diameter, bullets then some soft, small diameter bullets, that have a small flat on the nose from the molds I made last year and will shoot them in a day or two.
Looking forward to the tests and the results. It will be my second attempt at paper patched and after a year here, I know what I am doing this time.

[DoctorBill]

OK - I shall pass it over.

Just wanted some opinions before I went off half-cocked.

As to shooting - I have shot some of the cast PP bullets.
Not many - not enough to judge them yet.

I was all ready to shoot up a storm this summer, but the heat is killing me.

Long story short - not much shooting - or anything else.
Just becoming an old, sweaty phart.

DoctorBill

[HollowPoint]

When I first started looking into buying a mill and lathe I was limited as far as funds and the room to put machinery in.

I ended up buying a Harbor freight Mini mill and a mini mill. I bought each of them with a 20 percent off coupon. I learned on them while I saved up to buy the 9x19 lathe I have now. I sold the mini lathe and used the money from that to buy new tooling for the slightly larger lathe I bought from Grizzly.

I still have and use the mini mill. It's more than adequate for the stuff I use it for. You just have to take smaller bites out of you metal stock that's all.

Since acquiring my CNC hobby mill I use the Harbor Freight mini mill more as a drill press than anything else. There's time when using the mini mill is a whole lot faster than setting up the CNC mill for one-off small stuff.

It's always nice when you can afford bigger and better machines but, not everyone can. I was happy with the cheaper Harbor freight stuff to get me started. I'm still glad to have the mini mill.

HollowPoint

[smokeywolf]

Wish I'd been actively reloading and a member of Cast Boolits 10 years ago. I sold off 6 mills, 7 lathes, 3 surface grinders, 1 cylindrical grinder, 4 pedestal grinders, numerous surface and lapping plates, a Rockwell hardness tester with diamonds for "C" scale and balls for Brinell.
As an example, one of the mills was a Bridgeport clone (Summit) with probably less than 20 thousand hours on it. It went out the door for $450 dollars. Most of the lathes went for around $800 dollars.

DoctorBill,
Watch your newspaper classifieds for machine shops going out of business. All that machinery and tooling I sold off was out of the Sony Pictures Studio Machine Shop.