Nm m14

[MGySgt]

I have an oppurtunity to pick up a National Match M14 with one matching Mag.

Any idea as to where I can find information about this particular M14?

[Larry Gibson]

A real M14?

Larry Gibson

[Doc Highwall]

Who made it?

[MGySgt]

It states on the top of the receiver:

US Rifle
7.62 MM M14 NM

The Receiver is an Armscorp Baltimore MD

[oneokie]

Parts gun with aftermarket reciever.

[MGySgt]

Any idea how much it is worth?

[garym1a2]

M14 or M1a depends on the quality of the build. With match M1A's you could have a $200 barrell or a $600 one. A $50 stock or a $500 stock. The barrell could be new or have the throat shot out. It all the parts are TRW and good condition you maybe worth some money. I think true M14s are class 3.
Any idea how much it is worth?

[MGySgt]

Class 3????????

[MGySgt]

No not all M-14's were selective fire. The ones I carried a LONG time ago did not have the selector switchs.

The Select Fire M-14 was to be a replacement for the BAR. In the USMC only one of four in a fire team had a select fire M-14 (the Automatic Rifleman) the rest had semi auto M-14's.

The stock on this one has been replace by a fiberglass stock that has been glass beded. No Selective fire hole.

[Haggway]

The semi M14's in your squad would have had the selector removed from the rifle. If the reciver is marked as such it can still be considerd a class 3 weapon by the BATFE. If the area on the reciver has been milled so a selector can not be replaced, then you may have one of the Mil surplus rifles that were made up from an older reciver.

[oneokie]

No not all M-14's were selective fire. The ones I carried a LONG time ago did not have the selector switchs.

The Select Fire M-14 was to be a replacement for the BAR. In the USMC only one of four in a fire team had a select fire M-14 (the Automatic Rifleman) the rest had semi auto M-14's.

The stock on this one has been replace by a fiberglass stock that has been glass beded. No Selective fire hole.

The hole in the stock for the selector switch does not mean it is a semi. There is an ear on the bottom of the reciever that holds the selector switch for SA or FA.
If there is no ear on the bottom of the reciever, it is a semi only.

Being as it is an Armscor reciever, it probably does not have the ear.

[Hip's Ax]

There were a lot of match rifles built on Armscorp receivers. If it is a good Armscorp reciever you should have a good rifle there. I believe the recievers were made in China some time ago. I've heard the service rifle smiths say about half the Armscorp's were good, and half bad.

I would have the rifle checked out by a well known M1A match rifle smith.

What is it worth? I have a NM M1A built on a LRB lugged receiver and had it built about 7 years ago. The rifle alone cost me $3200 to have built. Not sure what a used Armscorp would be worth but a good NM M1A is never cheap.

Be aware that if you shoot often the rifle has to go back to the smith about once a year with a bucket full of money to keep it shooting 1 MOA groups.

[MGySgt]

I have the rifle here and shot 20 rounds for functioning only.

Shot fine, cycled fine.

Have to remember how to take it down . Been a long time since I field stripped one!

If I take it, I will probably work up a load, load a bunch of ammo for it and make into a safe queen! Until the race riots when he looses this fall.

Drew

[Larry Gibson]

I have the rifle here and shot 20 rounds for functioning only.

Shot fine, cycled fine.

Have to remember how to take it down . Been a long time since I field stripped one!

If I take it, I will probably work up a load, load a bunch of ammo for it and make into a safe queen! Until the race riots when he looses this fall.

Drew

Yours is an M1A so no need to worry about the class 3. Armscorp sold complete rifles and recievers seperately. No way to know which is which. Assembly disassembly is slightly different that with an actual M14. After the barrel/reciever group is removed from the stock there is no diconector assembly to remove 1st and then the oprod pulled half way back and rotated out through a slot in the guide rail on the right side. With the M1A the oprod is pulled to rear and lifted up and out of the quide slot and then rotated to the right and out. Other than that it's pretty much the same as an M14. If it is a bedded NM M1A I wouldn't take the barreled/reciever group out of the stock unless absolutely necessary. Just clean and lube with the bolt locked back.

If you don't have dies yet get the RCBS regular (the SB dies are not necessary) X-dies. You will not have to trim the cases and case life will double or triple.

Larry Gibson

[MGySgt]

Thanks Larry but OOPS - I already pulled it from the stock once - I won't do that again.

Like I said earlier - it shot good. Have to wait until this weekend to bench rest it with some LC 93 Match ammo. I will record groups afterwards.

I already have standard dies for my Ruger GSR. Hornady New Dimension dies.

Drew

[Larry Gibson]

I already have standard dies for my Ruger GSR. Hornady New Dimension dies.

Adjust the Hornady FL die so it sizes the case just enough for easy closing of the bolt on it's own. Watch for incipient case head seperation between the 3rd and 5th firing......you'll be lucky with any case life beyond that unless you get the X-die. The X-die will pay for itself in case life if you plan on shooting that M1A much.

Larry Gibson

[MGySgt]

I want this as a shooter - not really into formal target shooting. Probably won't shoot it much after I get a load worked up for it.

2 in at 100 (or slightly larger) will do me fine!

[gew98]

I have seen civilian versions of the M14 from dog quality to way up there very expensive . I've got a buddy wantint to sell his NIB springfield M1A "international Match" for $1800. He's not put even 10 rounds through it in the years he has had it. To me that's way top end price , but below retail for something like this.
Very Very few reweld M14's receivers were allowed to be owned after the Gov't put a stop to them. I only know one buddy with a legal REAL M14 receiver he had built into a rifle , and he has the exemption paperwork to prove it.

[MGySgt]

As someone already stated - it is a Parts gun built on an after market receiver. This weekend is RAIN - don't know if I will get a chance to bench it or not.

We shall see.

[HangFireW8]

There were a lot of match rifles built on Armscorp receivers. If it is a good Armscorp reciever you should have a good rifle there. I believe the recievers were made in China some time ago. I've heard the service rifle smiths say about half the Armscorp's were good, and half bad.

If it says Armscorp it was made in Baltimore, MD. You may be thinking of Norinco's M14's. As you said, some receivers gauge good and some do not.

Here's one quick history:

http://m14forum.com/m14/110784-armscorp-america.html



I would have the rifle checked out by a well known M1A match rifle smith.


Fulton Armory would be a good choice. :)

HF

[Larry Gibson]

Uh, this "Larry" knows the Armscorp recieiver/rifles were not made by Norinco......in China.

Larry Gibson

[Bob S]

As someone already stated - it is a Parts gun built on an after market receiver. This weekend is RAIN - don't know if I will get a chance to bench it or not.

We shall see.

Where are you in VA and where do you shoot?

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[MGySgt]

Where are you in VA and where do you shoot?
.

I live between Fredericksburg and Richmond - I shoot on my back yard range. Easy 100 yards if I want more I have to move back by the house.

Of course I have the intermeadiate distances to 100.

I have 4 steel targets and one paper stand target.

Drew

[HangFireW8]

Uh, this "Larry" knows the Armscorp recieiver/rifles were not made by Norinco......in China.

Larry Gibson

Sorry, Larry... I was on tapatalk at the time and got my attributions all wrong! :-(

HF

[Larry Gibson]

No problem.....**it happens:drinks:

Larry Gibson

[MGySgt]

I decided to go ahead and get the M-14. Shot it off he bench last night - eyes are what they use to be. 2 touching - 1 about an inch away. Need to shoot it some more and get use to it.

I may take it out of the stock and get another one. That stock is HEAVY. It is fiberglass painted camo - not really my cup of tea if you know what I mean.

It is what I wanted - a shooter. I don't shoot comp any more but I do like to shoot. When I was looking 4 years ago for my AR - I did look at the M1A's and they were over twice what I have in this - I like it and I will be keeping it.

It is a shooter!

[Hip's Ax]

If it says Armscorp it was made in Baltimore, MD. You may be thinking of Norinco's M14's. As you said, some receivers gauge good and some do not

Yep, I was wrong. I was thinking Polytech.

[Hip's Ax]

I may take it out of the stock and get another one. That stock is HEAVY. It is fiberglass painted camo - not really my cup of tea if you know what I mean.

That may be a McMillan stock and they are expensive. Can you post a pic? If it is you can auction it and get a pretty penny for it. New ones are about $500 or so.

[MGySgt]

Where would it be maked? I think it would be marked some place.

[Just Duke]

Where would it be maked? I think it would be marked some place.

It would not be marked anywhere.
Nation Match is a configuration.
The upgrades can be made to any M-14 or M1A (a registered trade make name of Springfield Armory) by these changes;
National Match Barrel twist rate suited more toward the heavier 168 grainer in medium or heavy.
National Match Front Sight Blade
National Match Rear Sight with finer increment adjustments including the rotating hood which changes 1/2 MOA when rotated.
Gas cylinder Unitzed to the front barrel band via screw and glue.
Glass Bedding of the receiver and trigger guard.
Curling over the ears on the barrel band so the handguard does not rattle.
National Match Oprod Spring Guide. This replaces the flat rod with a cylindrical rod to help eliminate spring binding.
Opening chamber of Flash Hider so bullets clear while raining.
Handguard sanded down to clear top of stock.


Here's three I threw together for myself 6 years ago.

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/vicferrari/images/firearms/Birch%20stocks/Rifles/010_03A.jpg

DMR Upgrades - Springfield Armory M1A National Match Rifles. Medium weight NM barrel. NM sights .Unitized gas cylinders by Huey Gunner (NY), operating rod spring guides by Sadlak Industries (CT), and stock hardware phosphate coated. USGI birch NM stocks pillar bedded (glass bedded) in Brownells Steel Bed, stock hardware finished with Brownell's baking lacquer and stocks painted with Centurion brand automotive paint. All of the M1A rifles pictured shoot ragged hole groups at 100 yards.




Featured on Different's website and book;
http://www.imageseek.com


THE VIDEO

http://s40.photobucket.com/albums/e234/ChrisitoBandito/?action=view&current=DSCN5122.mp4

[Just Duke]

Where would it be maked? I think it would be marked some place.


Feel free to give me a jingle. :bigsmyl2:

I have a plethora of New In Wrapper Checkmate Ind. M-14 Magazines I keep around for trading towards M-14 parts. Like camouflage stocks. ;)
I have a real nice laminate stock and a really nice wood stock. ;)

[MGySgt]

Duke I was inquiring about the stock and where it was marked.

My M-14 is marked NM M-14 on the receiver where the SN is. I know it is NOT the common M-14 that I shot back in the 70's for Qual. They shot decent.

I fired 2 3 round groups with this one on Friday night - both with 2 touching and one slighly out. The ones I use to shoot would not that!

I was referring to the stock and if it was a McMilan or not.

[Just Duke]

Duke I was inquiring about the stock and where it was marked.

My M-14 is marked NM M-14 on the receiver where the SN is. I know it is NOT the common M-14 that I shot back in the 70's for Qual. They shot decent.

I fired 2 3 round groups with this one on Friday night - both with 2 touching and one slighly out. The ones I use to shoot would not that!

I was referring to the stock and if it was a McMilan or not.

PM sent for a jingle.
They don't mark the McMillan's anywhere.
What makes it a NM stock is;
Forend will be twice as thick as the GI stock.
The wrist will be thicker.
The two holes in the butt of the stock will not be drilled for the cleaning kit and gas cylinder wrench.
Also once the rifle is glass bedded to the stock the only rifle that will fit it correctly (without breaking the ears off the trigger guard or the legs off the receiver while closing) is that rifle. No other rifle will interchange with it unless you go back and cut 1/8" out off all bedding where the metal touches the stock and then rebedding the stock and trigger guard with Brownells Steel Bed or Accraglass. I prefer Steel Bed myself as it has ground stainless steel mixed in with it.
You can email me pics and I'll post them if you don't have the means?

[MGySgt]

That is it - no holes for the tools and thicker stock from front to back.

With the extra weight the rifle is a ***** cat to shoot.

I can post picks later today.

[Just Duke]

With the extra weight the rifle is a ***** cat to shoot.



Copy that. Check out my video. http://cdn.m14forum.com/images/smilies/DI5.jpg

[Just Duke]

Here's a current build. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=150692

Here's a laminated stock.
http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/LEVERACTIONSHOOTERS/M14/LaminatedstockBothsmall.jpg

[MGySgt]

Beautiful stock - There is just something about the laminated stocks that make them look grat on a rifle.

Drew

[Lance Boyle]

The McM's are very nice stocks. I have one in the M3A pattern (saddle cheek piece and full pistol grip), you're right, they aren't light. All that glue and resin has weight, the laminate woods are also heavy as they're about half glue! (I'm exagerating a bit).

for a handy woods utility gun, I like the USGI fiberglass stocks, they're thinner at the wrist and lighter than most stocks, and they have molded in checkering. Those McM's don't always have molded in grip texture, if not they kind of suck to carry around with smooth surfaces that are over sized especially if you have small hands like myself.

Most of the McM's have molded in camo that's in the gelcoat as opposed to surface paint, it'd be glossy. They do paint them on request for a price. That and anyone can paint one. One quick way to see if it's molded in camo is look at the joint line on the comb or down the forend, if the camo doesn't mate up from side to side it's likely laid up as two seperate halves before joinging on a stock.

Personally I wouldn't touch a thing if your rifle groups like that. If you swap in a plain GI stock you'll likely go back to 2 or 4 inch accuracy. Stock fit is huge for accuracy!!!! A bedded wood stock is probably the twin or near twin to the bedded glass though.

[Just Duke]

The McM's are very nice stocks. I have one in the M3A pattern (saddle cheek piece and full pistol grip), you're right, they aren't light. All that glue and resin has weight, the laminate woods are also heavy as they're about half glue! (I'm exagerating a bit).

for a handy woods utility gun, I like the USGI fiberglass stocks, they're thinner at the wrist and lighter than most stocks, and they have molded in checkering. Those McM's don't always have molded in grip texture, if not they kind of suck to carry around with smooth surfaces that are over sized especially if you have small hands like myself.

Most of the McM's have molded in camo that's in the gelcoat as opposed to surface paint, it'd be glossy. They do paint them on request for a price. That and anyone can paint one. One quick way to see if it's molded in camo is look at the joint line on the comb or down the forend, if the camo doesn't mate up from side to side it's likely laid up as two seperate halves before joinging on a stock.

Personally I wouldn't touch a thing if your rifle groups like that. If you swap in a plain GI stock you'll likely go back to 2 or 4 inch accuracy. Stock fit is huge for accuracy!!!! A bedded wood stock is probably the twin or near twin to the bedded glass though.

The Super Match with the McMillan stock weighs 12 pounds dead nuts on the money.
The McMillan stock by itself weighs 5 pounds.

[MGySgt]

Joint lines don't match, I just checked - also no gripsion on the stock. I can not image carring that in the jungles where everything is wet and slimy after a few hours (some times minutes)

I would like to get my hands on some ball ammo just to see what it will do with it. The current stuff I have is all match ammo.

[Just Duke]

Yours should have this same camo pattern.

This was one of my McMillan Stock ventures. The rifle came from Walmart. HERE (http://50caliberforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=alaskanbigboreboltguns&action=display&thread=1969)
The stock took 40 hours to glass bed. I almost sent it back when it arrived. :groner:

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd255/EBRSOPMODS/ULTRAMAG/3382.jpg

[Combat Diver]

I've used the same TRW M14 NM in Kenya, Iraq and All Army Matches. One perk of being a MSG in SF is that you get the pick out of the arms room when you want :)

Here's my son and I in Baghdad in 04'
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/P1000225.JPG

They are great shooting rifles when you get them tuned. Lots of standard M14s in EBR stocks in Astan last year.

CD

[Just Duke]

Joint lines don't match, I just checked - also no gripsion on the stock. I can not image carring that in the jungles where everything is wet and slimy after a few hours (some times minutes)

I would like to get my hands on some ball ammo just to see what it will do with it. The current stuff I have is all match ammo.

The rate of twist for your rifle is not conducive to ball ammo. i.e. 147 - 150 grain. The rate of twist would be for a heavier projectile like the 168 grain SMK or 168 grain A-Max.

[MGySgt]

Very similar - but no Tan colors. I will take some pictures during lunch.

Work is the pits when it gets in the way of your hobbies!

[Just Duke]

Very similar - but no Tan colors.

That's actually a light green color. The picture posted was taken with a 35MM film camera which I still have no clue how to operate. I have since acquired a digital 35MM SLR and a Digital Video camera which I vaguely know how to operate also.

[MGySgt]

No Pictures - Everything comes out too dark - have to find a bright light that will bring out the colors.

[Hip's Ax]

Does your stock look like this?

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/577/577268.jpg

[Just Duke]

or like cat? Not my stocks though

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b180/gruntmedik/Gun%20porn/IMG_1807.jpg

[MGySgt]

Like the ones Duke posted. Not enough sun here today to take the pics out side. At least not when I wasn't in Teleconferences! :(

[MGySgt]

Sun was nice and bright today so I thought I would try again to take some pictures.

Here is what came out!

[Just Duke]

How's that's


http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/LEVERACTIONSHOOTERS/GARAND/PEPPER1.jpg


http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/LEVERACTIONSHOOTERS/GARAND/PEPPER2.jpg

[MGySgt]

UH - You forgot the front swing swivel!

But it sure is purty!

[Just Duke]

UH - You forgot the front swing swivel!

But it sure is purty!

I'll get that on tonight. ;)

[Just Duke]

Here's one I just finished.


http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/LEVERACTIONSHOOTERS/M14/DSC_0184.jpg

http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/LEVERACTIONSHOOTERS/M14/DSC_0185.jpg

http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/LEVERACTIONSHOOTERS/M14/DSC_0188.jpg

[MGySgt]

Good looking what looks like a Mil Spec scock. The ones I used never looked that good!

[madsenshooter]

I put a Springfield Armory M1A in a stock similar to Dukes, but heavier and with more green to it, a Fajen stock I think. Had to sell it back in the 90s for college money. I recently found out there were early M1As made in TX, before the company in IL. Mine would have been a TX made M1A as the serial number was one thousand something. Another one that got away. Shot great even though the throat was getting long.

[oneokie]

Those are referred to as the Devine guns.

[madsenshooter]

Interesting. It didn't have any TX markings on it. Had a TRW bolt, a GI NM barrel, a heavy homemade op rod spring guide. It was in a junk aftermarket plastic sporter stock before I put it in the laminated stock. The dealer refunded enough of the purchase price to buy the laminated stock because I wasn't happy with the accuracy of the rifle. The TX connection is something I only recently found, despite spending many hours with my nose in back issues of American Rifleman while going to college. Darn it, wonder where it's at now?

[Just Duke]

I have that stock. :bigsmyl2:


Rare Virgin M-14 Fajen Super Match Walnut Stock and Matching Super Match Handguard.

http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/LEVERACTIONSHOOTERS/S1/SM3.jpg

http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/LEVERACTIONSHOOTERS/S1/SM7.jpg

http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/LEVERACTIONSHOOTERS/S1/SM1.jpg