45 Colt - ready to start casting

[AK Caster]

Been a long time lurker here and been buying alloy and equipment for years. Recently purchased a Ruger Bisley and am looking for a RedHawk in 45 Colt.
Have a pretty good supply of Lyman #2 and would like to start casting with it.

Would like to run a boolit of about 300-320 grains to 1,200-1,250 fps. I am prepared to send the cylinder out to have the throats uniformly sized if needed.

Need some advice on which mold to buy to get started.
Gas checked or not?

[rexherring]

So far I've liked my Lee 300 gr FP gas checked boolits. H-110 or W 296 should work great. I don't have a chrono but an older Handloader magazine showed them using 20 - 22 grs of those powders at about 1350 fps. I haven't tried mine that hot yet in my Blackhawk but the Bisley was said to handle it fine. As in most reloads, start a little reduced and work up.

[DanWalker]

18.5 grains of 2400 will get you there with the LEE boolit. It's a top load for a Blackhawk. not a whole lot of fun to shoot in an aluminum gripframe gun for me. It will kill anything that you wnat to point it at though. Penetrations is NOT a problem with this boolit.

[geargnasher]

+1 on using 2400 for top-end heavies, and the Lee gas-check boolit is a good one, although a plain-based design cast of appropriately tough alloy will do the job jut fine.

If you haven't already, check out the sticky thread titled something about "beginner's guide to revolver accuracy" in the classics/stickies section, and also From Ingot to Target at the Los Angeles Silhouette Club website, that should get you on track to check your gun out for cylinder throat dimensions and possible barrel restrictions.

Gear

[AK Caster]

Thanks guys. Today shot the 45 Bisley for the first time with 250 gr Nosler jacketed bullets and 20 grains of 296. Followed it up with 300 gr Hornady XTP mags with 21 grains of 296. Both were more accurate than I am. And now since I know she is a shooter with jacketed bullets it is time to get the melting pot out.

[RobS]

Those throats are probably on the small side for the bore, most are, especially if you are going to shot cast boolits. You can send it out or if you plan on having more 45 Colts then after your second cylinder it's almost a wash when you buy the reamer from Brownells. Reaming the throats is very easy to do; good cutting oil and allow the reamer to do the work (don't force the cut) and it's done in about 20 minutes or so.

[AK Caster]

Sure, the throats might be small, most likely they are. But I think it is prudent to shoot some casts the way they are before plunking down any money. I might get lucky.

What about this RCBS mold2-Cavity Bullet Mold 45-300-SWC 45 Caliber (452 Diameter) 300 Grain Semi-Wadcutter Gas Check?

[RobS]

AK

you are correct, measure the cylinder throats, give it a test spin and see what happens. Some do get lucky.

45-300-SWC gas check:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=47053&highlight=45-300-SWC
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=124227&highlight=45-300-SWC

I never shot the 45-300-SWC but I had one made that was very similar which droped heavier and had a bit wider front drive band, wider meplat (75%) and a nose length at .380. It shot pretty accurately with a good charge of H110.

[newton]

I got lucky. I figured I was going to have to do the ream job until I just finally put a slug into the throat and was blown away that they were all right around .4525". If I had not bought the gun new I would have said that someone had reamed them. But it was a new gun, the test shot was dated 12/2009.

Slug the throat, that is where you need to begin. For me it was tough to hammer a piece of lead into my cylinder, but I realized that shooting one in it was a lot more force then I was generating.

[41mag]

Well to be honest, I have a Redhawk in the 7.5" Hunter model. I have shot the Lee 300 RFGC through it as well as several others which shot excellent.

This all said, the top two for accuracy in mine have been the Lee 255gr RF PB which throws 260grs on the money with my alloy, and the MP version of the 45-270 SAA poured from isotope core alloy. These two have shot equally well out to 50yds giving groups under 2" pretty easily from a rest. I do admit that I am not pushing them but to around 1200fps. Even so here in the middle is one group I shot using the 270 SAA this past week at 50yds,
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Shooting/Cast%20Boolit%20Loading%20and%20Shooting/0411120923a.jpg

The holes in the top are from my 44 while trying to find a load with 2400. I did find something that shot a bit better than that mess but not nearly as well as the 45 or 41 did. In fact I liked the load for the 45 enough that I went ahead and loaded up 50 of them to play with next trip out to the range.

[MtGun44]

GCs are not needed at pistol velocities. Will they work? Yes, of course. Are they really
needed? IME, not at all. extra cost and hassle, IMO.

Bill

[AK Caster]

GCs are not needed at pistol velocities. Will they work? Yes, of course. Are they really
needed? IME, not at all. extra cost and hassle, IMO.

Bill

Is this still true if you are shooting a 350 grain boolit out of a S&W 500 at approximately 1,650 fps?

Last night I ordered the RCBS mold, approximately 300 grain GC version. Will see how my first batch turns out casting with Lyman #2 which I have in great supply.

[218bee]

The RCBS 45-270-SAA shoots real well in MY old Blackhawk.
2400 is a good powder.
Just my .02

[44man]

Is this still true if you are shooting a 350 grain boolit out of a S&W 500 at approximately 1,650 fps?

Last night I ordered the RCBS mold, approximately 300 grain GC version. Will see how my first batch turns out casting with Lyman #2 which I have in great supply.
Actually, most guns do very well with a tough PB.
Now a 300 gr from the .45 Colt is great but I think you will find it does not like to be shot so fast. I shoot many heavy boolits and the .45 seems to be best at about 1160 fps to 1200 max. You just need to test.
From the .500 S&W, 350 gr is kind of light. I use 440 gr from the .500 JRH at about 1350 fps. This boolit shoots well from the S&W too. You do not need such high velocity, the .500 in about any form is so deadly on game it is crazy.
I will not deter you if you shoot long range and want flat trajectory but it is still a revolver and at normal hunting distance, you do not need it. Drop to 200 yards is very low with a heavy boolit. With a 75 yard setting, drop is around 18" at 200.
The surprise is the .44 with a 330 gr boolit, it is 35"at 200. At 100 it is not worth thinking about, they hit within an inch or so.
The .500 with a 350 gr that fast can make a deer red mist but penetration on very large game can be poor.
I never advocate velocity, only accuracy first. ME never kills, only boolit work inside the animal.
I made a big mistake last season when I fooled a deer to walk to me. I shot her facing me at 30 yards with the JRH, 440 gr hard cast. Hit in the neck, destroyed a shoulder and bones, blew the lungs, liver, stomach and most of the intestines to green mush before boolit exit. Nuts, what a mess! :veryconfu
I have heated discussions about using a chronograph to work loads. Never look for pure velocity. Even small SD's and small velocity ranges does not mean your boolit is a match to velocity and twist, it only means the powder is burning right but you can be many fps from what your boolit and gun likes.
If you get accuracy, please don't worry about a few hundred FPS. Then make sure your boolit works at the velocity you have and change it to do work inside animals.
A .45 at 900 fps can do better then the same boolit at 1600 fps. The other way around too, it depends on your alloy. Next will be animal size. How I wish I could make a chart but I am not smart enough.

[jkpq45]

I have a single cavity Lee 340gr RNFP mold with handles sitting around doing nothing... and a few dozen cast boolits out of it as well. Might be the ticket for ya--then again, might be too big of a projectile!

[AK Caster]

Actually, most guns do very well with a tough PB.
Now a 300 gr from the .45 Colt is great but I think you will find it does not like to be shot so fast. I shoot many heavy boolits and the .45 seems to be best at about 1160 fps to 1200 max. You just need to test.
From the .500 S&W, 350 gr is kind of light. I use 440 gr from the .500 JRH at about 1350 fps. This boolit shoots well from the S&W too. You do not need such high velocity, the .500 in about any form is so deadly on game it is crazy.
I will not deter you if you shoot long range and want flat trajectory but it is still a revolver and at normal hunting distance, you do not need it. Drop to 200 yards is very low with a heavy boolit. With a 75 yard setting, drop is around 18" at 200.
The surprise is the .44 with a 330 gr boolit, it is 35"at 200. At 100 it is not worth thinking about, they hit within an inch or so.
The .500 with a 350 gr that fast can make a deer red mist but penetration on very large game can be poor.
I never advocate velocity, only accuracy first. ME never kills, only boolit work inside the animal.
I made a big mistake last season when I fooled a deer to walk to me. I shot her facing me at 30 yards with the JRH, 440 gr hard cast. Hit in the neck, destroyed a shoulder and bones, blew the lungs, liver, stomach and most of the intestines to green mush before boolit exit. Nuts, what a mess! :veryconfu
I have heated discussions about using a chronograph to work loads. Never look for pure velocity. Even small SD's and small velocity ranges does not mean your boolit is a match to velocity and twist, it only means the powder is burning right but you can be many fps from what your boolit and gun likes.
If you get accuracy, please don't worry about a few hundred FPS. Then make sure your boolit works at the velocity you have and change it to do work inside animals.
A .45 at 900 fps can do better then the same boolit at 1600 fps. The other way around too, it depends on your alloy. Next will be animal size. How I wish I could make a chart but I am not smart enough.

Am sure you know a lot more than I do about cast bullets in revolvers. So, none of the bullets you shoot out of your revolvers ever wear gas checks?

[bigboredad]

I have a single cavity Lee 340gr RNFP mold with handles sitting around doing nothing... and a few dozen cast boolits out of it as well. Might be the ticket for ya--then again, might be too big of a projectile!

That is a excellent bullet. I use that sized to .454 and just today I shot it ay 25 yards with a load of 17.5gr. of enforcerit went under 2 inches which for me is a good day. I also don't use gas checks and the above load leaves the barrels very clean at least mine. I have used this bullet in 5 different blackhawks from 900 to above 1200 and the only problem with accuracy is usually me. oh and I did make the mistake once of using to soft of a bullet.

[44man]

Am sure you know a lot more than I do about cast bullets in revolvers. So, none of the bullets you shoot out of your revolvers ever wear gas checks?
Once I started to make my own molds, I did make many with a GC.
Then I studied what they actually do and found a revolver does not need them, just make the boolit tougher.
Now if you need softer lead for deer because you are shooting too fast, a GC helps. My 45-70 at 1632 fps is too fast with hard lead and pokes holes in deer like a pointy stick. When I soften, I need the check. I do shoot hard PB out of the 45-70 BFR at over 1600 fps but not for deer.
I found if you stay at around 1300-1350 fps, there is no need for soft lead and the .44, .475 and .500 JRH all kill deer like crazy with huge internal damage.
The GC really does help with softer alloys.
But do not fear them with any boolit, they never do any harm except to your wallet.
Now going to the .45 Colt with a heavy boolit at 1160 fps, it would be better to soften again so a GC again will be best. For just target, no need at all, just harden a PB.
I have killed many deer with a hard boolit in the .45, it works but just takes a little longer for them to die, closer shots better.
The slower hard boolit is much better then a hard boolit too fast.
Best for too fast would be a soft nose and hard base.
We are not that far from work done with jacketed bullets. One size does not fit all! Animal size also bears heavy on choice. Alloy is so important.
If you want to shoot softer lead, use a GC. A wonderful invention made for that purpose.
I would dearly like to shoot pure lead from my revolvers but it is not to be with smokeless powders.

[Frank]

Over 1400 fps starts to become gas check territory. A hard bullet can give impressive performance like a GC up to 1600 fps, but there are more fliers.

[AK Caster]

Perhaps as my experiences increase with cast boolits I'll experiment with non gas checked versions. The 45 Bisley Ruger was bought to use as the "guiena pig" into this new area for me.
Heavy, hard, and slow works fine with me as any critter I might shoot should be reasonably close (under 75 yards).

My way of thinking is for the first time or two a GC bullet will help keep me out of trouble until my knowledge increases. Should be able to start casting the end of the week and will run out a 100 or so then play with the RCBS sizer (bought a .452 die) and see what happens.
I'll be pretty happy with no leading, reasonably good accuracy, and 1,100-1,150 fps with an end result.

[Frank]

If you really want 1200-1250 fps, you'll need an LBT style mold to have the extra powder room for more velocity.

[RobS]

Perhaps as my experiences increase with cast boolits I'll experiment with non gas checked versions. The 45 Bisley Ruger was bought to use as the "guiena pig" into this new area for me.
Heavy, hard, and slow works fine with me as any critter I might shoot should be reasonably close (under 75 yards).

My way of thinking is for the first time or two a GC bullet will help keep me out of trouble until my knowledge increases. Should be able to start casting the end of the week and will run out a 100 or so then play with the RCBS sizer (bought a .452 die) and see what happens. I'll be pretty happy with no leading, reasonably good accuracy, and 1,100-1,150 fps with an end result.

Don't forget about age hardening if you are using alloys with antimony in them. Casting from aircooled wheel weight alloy or similar for example is still quite soft the next day and if you load them up and push hard the next day the boolits may skid the rifling and not provide good accuracy. If you haven't read much on age hardening it's spoke about several times around the forum and would be good to read up on and add as another bit of knowledge to shooting cast.

[AK Caster]

Thanks for the tips. Will not be using wheel weights. I find it easier and less hassle to simply order the alloy I want that is why I have a nice supply of Lyman #2.
Doubt I'll be shooting any of the boolits I cast for at least 3-4 days after they are sized/lubed. Will I have any hardening problems with the Lyman #2?

[RobS]

Yep, Lyman #2 is 90% lead, 5% tin, and 5% antimony with a brinell hardness of about 15 BHN and this alloy will age harden due to the animony. It's not just about shooting the boolits before they age harden but with them being quite soft just after being cast they can even swage down when seating/crimping in the reloading process. I usually wait 3 or 4 days to a week before I load/shoot air cooled, antimony base boolits.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_3_alloySelectionMetallurgy.ht m

some additional reading:

http://www.lasc.us/castbulletnotes.htm