32 H&R - need some input please

[BigSlick]

Hi guys,

I am going to cast my first few Lee 311-100-2R today.

Here's a pic :

http://www.leeprecision.com/graphics/bullets/3111002r.gif

As you can see, this bullet appears to have two lube grooves and no crimp groove per se.

Should I seat this to my std 32 H&R OAL of 1.345 (which is ahead of the lube grooves) and roll crimp slightly just over the shoulder ? Crimp into the top lube groove ? Find some way to remove the bell from seating and utilize no crimp ?

I'm only using this mould because nobody has come forward with a 32-98 Keith GB mould for sale (hint, hint)[smilie=1: , and my RCBS 32-98 SWC is back ordered for another two weeks plus.

I have a few Meister 98gr SWC's left, but I want to run a can full so I'm good for the summer.

Any of you use this bullet with any success ? Lube one or both grooves ?

Thanks for the feedback ;)

'Slick
________
FERRARI 308 GTB HISTORY (http://www.ferrari-wiki.com/wiki/Ferrari_308_GTB)

[Bret4207]

Perfect candidate for the Lee Factory Crimp die. Crimp where you want with that die. I'd try lube in both and then just the lower and see which works better. If you want to try the roll crimp I'd stick in th eupper lube groove and try it.

[Harry O]

It depends somewhat on what you are going to shoot it in. I try to load it as long as possible, within the length of the cylinder. I have an RCBS 98gr RN-FP that I use in several guns. I have to seat it so that the front driving band is in the case, and crimp in front of it (on the curve of the bullet) in a 32-20 Colt PPS because of the short cylinder. That will hold the bullet firmly in a revolver, but will not work in a lever-action rifle.

If you have to crimp in a lube groove, you are depending on the neck tension to hold the bullet in place anyway. There is no real reason to crimp in that case. The .32 H&R case should have enough neck tension to hold it.

[BigSlick]

Shooting this in an SP101
________
APRILIA RSV1000R (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Aprilia_RSV1000R)

[Dale53]

BigSlick;
I shoot LOTS of .32 S&W L and .32 H&R's. I have used thousands of the Hornady HB Wadcutters. My current favorite is the GB 100 gr Keith. Hopefully, you can run one of those down. the RCBS is an equally good choice.

Now, to answer your question:
The Lee 311-100-2R should work just fine for you. If you have a taper crimp die I would seat it as long as I could without uncovering the lube grooves and lightly taper crimp (do not crimp heavy as you will reduce the size of the bullet inside the case to the detriment of accuracy). My choice, here, would be the Lee Factory Crimp die and crimp on the front band (lightly) if there is room or just ahead of (toward the nose) the front band. You can also do this with the normal crimp die.

There is little reason to crimp heavy in this case. The light weight bullet and light recoil does NOT require a heavy crimp (you will NOT have the bullet move from recoil). Further, a light crimp in this cartridge seems to shoot better (you might want to test that in your revolver to satisfy yourself).

Ed Harris shoots a lot of .32's and he suggests using unsized cases, seat unsized bullets in the unsized case (of course, decap and recap), charge the powder, and then use the Lee Factory Crimp die to bring the cartridge to factory dimensions and crimp the case. Unsized bullets are normally large enough that they will be tight enough in unsized cases to give enough bullet tension. You still bell the case normally and seat the bullet to normal depths. This method insures that you will not "oversize" the case and will work well. It is easy to try this and see if your gun likes this (mine seems to). Of course, the bullet is lubed with Lee Tumble LUbe before using.

Dale53

[Lloyd Smale]

Ill go against the grain and say ive never seen in my guns anyway were a light crimped or non crimped bullet outshot a bullet that has a good crimp. This even includes fast powders and 38 wad cutters. 32s to me have allways worked best with a good kick in the but and that means a good crimp to hold the bullet when the powder ignites. Ill even go so far with the 32s as to say that ive actually had better luck using mag primmers for accuracy in the 32 mags even with powders as fast as unique and power pistol. Any faster of a powder and it doesnt seem to matter. If it were me id go the lee factory crimp die route.

[KCSO]

I shoot this bullet and a the Lee soupcan in my Ruger Bisley. I crimp in the front grease groove on the RN and it works just fine. I also got super accuracy with a powder little used for the 32 and that was Green Dot. The soup can shoots just a close as the rn and seems to have plenty of punch for coyotes to 50 yards or so. This is my current limits for an iron sighted revolver on game. I did manage to shoot a 100 yard group under 5" with the Bisley and if my eyes were better I'll bet I culd shade 3" with that gun.

[Harry O]

Ill go against the grain and say ive never seen in my guns anyway were a light crimped or non crimped bullet outshot a bullet that has a good crimp.


I guess every lead bullet I shoot has at least a light crimp. With lead bullets, you have to bell the mouth or it will shave lead when the bullet is seated. That bell must be at least turned straight, and in most cases, I probably go a little bit beyond that. I did a lot of testing some years ago in S&W K-frames, with lightly loaded wadcutters and a fast powder and fount that very little crimp beat a heavy crimp hands down for me.

The only times I have seen a heavy crimp help in the accuracy department was when I had a hard to burn powder (like XMP5744) or a hard to ignite powder (some of the slower magnum powders) or a large case (larger than a 30-06). Sometimes a slightly heavier crimp worked better than a light one when the brass was so old that it could not be consistently sized back (it got so hard that springback was a problem), but even then, it was not really a heavy crimp. Naturally, a heavy crimp is also needed for heavily recoiling guns, but a .32 (even if it is called a "Magnum") does not have a heavy recoil.

[Lloyd Smale]

Harry i wont comment on rifles with cast because theres alot of people here with more knowlege then me on rifle loading. You have to keep in mind that every gun is different and responds to different loading techniques but ive got alot of data accumulated for handgun loading and for the most part ive never seen a good crimp hurt anything with a cast bullet for accuracy in a handgun and in alot of cases ive seen it improve with a good crimp. What started me testing was my ppc gun. For years i shot wadcutters out of it uncrimped because i was told that was the best way. I tried crimping them once and my group size was about cut in half. I then did a pile of testing on all the handguns i had at that time and it turned out that not a one of them did well with no crimp and a good portion of them did better with a heavy crimp and recoil level of the cartridge had nothing to do with it. It isnt that the bullet jump crimp was what it helped. What i found is that in most cases powder burned more effeciently. It about allways increased velocities and made for cleaner burning and gave me better accuracy. I havent done any testing lately as i just routinely crimp everything now. At least handgun wise.

[9.3X62AL]

The only fly in the ointment I've seen using the Lee RN is as-cast diameter.......both of my molds won't get to .312". My 32 Magnums have needed boolits at .313"-.314" to shoot well. I have a 32 Pocket Positive 6" (32 S&W Long) with .312" throats and .311" grooves, and it dotes on this boolit. Same story with a now-departed Colt PPS in 32-20.......its tighter throats and grooves got along with this boolit very well.

In both cases, I lubed both grooves and turned a light roll crimp toward the boolit ogive.

FWIW, this boolit goes GREAT work in both 30 Luger and 30 Mauser/7.62 x 25.

[Harry O]

What started me testing was my ppc gun. For years i shot wadcutters out of it uncrimped because i was told that was the best way. I tried crimping them once and my group size was about cut in half. I then did a pile of testing on all the handguns i had at that time and it turned out that not a one of them did well with no crimp and a good portion of them did better with a heavy crimp and recoil level of the cartridge had nothing to do with it.

I guess our test results are different. Not the first time I have seen that happen (particularly with cast bullets) and it won't be the last time. That is why I sometimes wonder about people who are ready to fight (verbally speaking) about something or another they've seen and anyone who says anything else is a low-down-dirty-liar. I report what I have done and anyone else can take it or leave it.

My PPC is an old style Bill Davis Grade V (back when the barrels were slab sided instead of rounded) built on a S&W Model 10. It eventually got loose enough (even though I use fairly light wadcutter loads in it) that I sent it back for him to rebuild about 12-15 years ago. What's yours?

[Newtire]

Amen brother Harry...I beweib in the crimp too.