Pistol/revolver primer pocket cleaning

[DrCaveman]

Howdy

My frequency of mis-fires due to primers not going off has increased lately, to the point where I had 2 failures out of about 200 rounds fired in 38 spl, and about the same numbers in 45 acp.

Both the 38 spl failures were using Fed small pistol, and the 45 acp were using CCI large pistol.

In my previous 38 shooting, I have had a few failures with CCI small pistol primers when using my smith model 19. Never a problem with my rugers, but it was today.

As for the 45, I have had about 2 FTF over maybe 2500 rounds. Today I had 2 out of less than 200.

Since I try to be very careful about positive primer seating, and visually check each round as it is completed, I don't think that I am failing to fully seat them. Of course, I could be wrong.

What I am thinking is that the pockets have become fouled enough that in some instances this is preventing proper ignition.

My reload procedure is: lightly clean my fired cases using liquid solution (spent primers still in case), then run them through my sizing/decapping die, and prime. Then the rest. This means that no, I do not ream my primer pockets nor remove primers prior to cleaning.

I am simply NOT going to begin removing primers prior to case cleaning every time. Nor will I stop my process to ream out the pockets in the quarter second between primer removal and installation.

Sorry for my attitude, but I hear of plenty people who claim to never clean their handgun case primer pockets. I am plenty willing to do all the proper case prep with rifle rounds, but not simple ol' 38 spl or 45 acp.

For those who have experienced this, do you think I am on the right track? Or is my problem indicative of a separate issue with my gun or reloading practices?

I am in the backyard right now, de-priming a bucket of 38 cases, and I'm gonna ream the pockets to see if it helps. Maybe I need to clean the pockets every 10 reloads or something?

Thanks!

[462]

Your procedures and experiences differ substantially from mine. I've always cleaned all primer pockets and have always run a finger over a newly-seated primer. I have experienced only one primer that failed to ignite -- a Winchester large pistol.

[22lover]

Same here. I always clean the primer pockets. Cheap but effective little $2 Lee tool. Doesn't take long to go through a whole mess of brass.

[geargnasher]

I'm sorry, but I'm unfamiliar with this concept :bigsmyl2:

Gear

[Rockchucker]

I have never cleaned a pistol primer pocket, and never had a primer that didn't fire. Guess I will now that I said that, maybe not.

[emrah]

I don't think I've ever cleaned out a primer pocket. Ever.

Emrah

[429421Cowboy]

I clean them every 2 or 3 loadings, never had one fail to fire. I don't spend time reaming primer pockets but i do clean them, they can start to look downright nasty after awhile, and it would seem like consistant seating and an unobstructed flash hole would be hard to attain.

[jmsj]

When I process my brass I look at the primer pockets. If they are extra sooty or have a lot junk in them I clean them if not I go ahead and load them.
I have been doing it this way for 25+ years and rarely have a FTF. I Know that I have had FTF's in the past but I can't remember the last time I had one.
Good luck, jmsj

[marvelshooter]

I don't think I've ever cleaned out a primer pocket. Ever.

Emrah
That makes at least two of us.

[Alan in Vermont]

Make that three.

[rond]

I load most of my handgun calibers on a progressive press, cleaning the primer pockets would defeat the purpose of the progressive press. No problems with primer ignition.

[shooter93]

Interesting...I clean primer pockets every time in everything. In the many yrs. I've been loading I had 2 ftf that were primer related...cci's....and have never used them since. It may seem going to far but I don't load "plinker or practice ammo" and then serious ammo. I never have a round in a firearm that I wouldn't trust my life to. It could still happen ofcourse but I like to eliminate as many possiblities as I can.

[tomme boy]

Sounds more like weak springs or a trigger job has been done and lower spring rates were used. Or a firing pin protrousion is a little short.

I have loaded some 45acp brass over 25 times until I lost count. Never once cleaned the primer pocket. Never had one not go off.

[btroj]

I think I have had maybe 5 or 10 misfired primers ever.
Makes me wonder of the primers are fully seated or if the firing pin strike is light.

[RayinNH]

I use the same tool as 22lover. Works great to scrape the fouling out...Ray

[Cherokee]

I always clean primer pockets. I use CCI primers. Only FTF's I've had (a few) were all because of light strikes from DA revolver with light trigger. That's my experience. It's probably the guns, check the springs.

[Bwana]

Since I don't like to assume and can only go by what you post I have a question about this part of your procedure: "My reload procedure is: lightly clean my fired cases using liquid solution (spent primers still in case), then run them through my sizing/decapping die, and prime. Then the rest. This means that no, I do not ream my primer pockets nor remove primers prior to cleaning."
You don't mention any drying so that makes me wonder if maybe some moisture may still be in the primer pocket or case and it contaminates your primer.

[Alchemist]

Since I don't like to assume and can only go by what you post I have a question about this part of your procedure: "My reload procedure is: lightly clean my fired cases using liquid solution (spent primers still in case), then run them through my sizing/decapping die, and prime. Then the rest. This means that no, I do not ream my primer pockets nor remove primers prior to cleaning."
You don't mention any drying so that makes me wonder if maybe some moisture may still be in the primer pocket or case and it contaminates your primer.

Precisely the point I was going to make. If you use a liquid case cleaner, it works best if you decap the cases before soaking them. Ample time for the cases to dry thoroughly should help your situation.

A Lee decapping die doesn't cost much, is rugged as all get-out and will make decapping a piece o' cake.

As far as scraping the primer residue out of cases during normal reloading...I don't do it as a matter of routine. I only decap and clean as a separate step on really cruddy brass.

[slide]

I have cleaned primer pockets before but like you I find it a pain. Generally I don't clean them.

[GRUMPA]

I de-prime and clean them in stainless media so the primer pockets look like new. I have had so far 3 out of 25 rounds with FTF and when I take them apart the priming compound falls right out of the flash hole, I'm talking with the primer still seated.

That's from a lot I just bought and I just bought 10k of them. I don't know if I should call the company I bought them from for a replacement, or contact CCI directly and see what they have to say. Most of the times I've called about defects in quality right away they assume it something you did and not what they did.

[captain-03]

I'm sorry, but I'm unfamiliar with this concept :bigsmyl2:

Gear\

Same here ..............

[Bullet Caster]

I always clean my primer pockets. It only takes a few seconds to stick a q-tip in the hole and give her a twist. Just another step in the reloading process. I've never had a failure to fire. BC

[zuke]

SS media clean's my primer pocket's.

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy356/zuke_bucket/DSCF1256.jpg

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy356/zuke_bucket/DSCF1257.jpg

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy356/zuke_bucket/DSCF1258.jpg

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy356/zuke_bucket/DSCF1259.jpg

[fecmech]

Back in the 70's I ran a National Guard company pistol team for a few years. I accumulated about 3,000 Military .38 cases and about the same number of WW wadcutter cases that I have been loading ever since (along with a few thousand oddballs). Many of these cases have been loaded 20 maybe 30 times, I just don't know how many but I've shot a lot of .38's in 40 years. I'm down to about half that number now due to splits, cracks etc but I've never cleaned a primer pocket one. I make sure primers are seated correctly and that's it. I'm sure I've had a properly seated primer fail to fire but I quite honestly don't ever remember it happening. Now shotshell primers, I've had a number of them fail over the years but not pistol primers.

[DrCaveman]

Hey, thanks for all the responses. Just goes to show that reloading techniques are as varied as BBQ methods, and everybody's technique is best and works great.

To clarify a few things:

I do thoroughly dry the cases after cleaning in liquid solution. I guess I would not bet my mother's life that 100% of them are 100% dry after the short low temp oven bake, but I give them a look-over and put em back in the oven if I see moisture. Anyway I will try to be more methodical in that step.

I clean the pockets using the Lee tool shown. Perhaps 'ream' implied a power-tool operation, but that is not the case for me. I know it doesn't take that much effort, except when I have to pull the case from my press, clean, and re-insert case back into press to continue that stage. This messes up the rate of production to an unacceptable level for me.

I used the sizer-decapper die with my hand held press (pretty sweet by the way! Mobile loading without a hammer!) and it wasn't too time consuming. I still resented not being able to bump the primer feed with my thumb, drop the lever, and have a primed case, ready for powder with another raising of the arm.

I experienced the FTF's in a Ruger gp100 (unmodified) and also a CZ97 (45 acp, bought new). I would be disappointed if the springs were already weakened, but I must admit that I have been running some pretty hot loads through the GP. I really didn't think that weakened hammer springs would be a result of hot loads, but might this be?

As for the CZ 97, I love her when she works, but has definitely been a finicky b!tch when it comes to reloading. Too short, or wrong shape nose, and it doesn't feed right...pops a wheelie out the top of the slide or slams into feed ramp. Too long and it usually won't go into battery without a nice loving thump on the backside. I decided to stop doing the thump after a couple rounds.

FWIW, one FTF with the 45 occurred using a light (and well proven) load of ramshot competition. The other was with a 'hardball equivalent' load of 6.5 gr unique. I didnt like the second load and do not recommend it. The gun was doing funny things, like mashing cases.

Fortunately I have found that the cast lee boolits I make fall nicely in the middle, and function great! TL452-230-2r and 452-255-rf. I was surprised the 255 was long enough to feed properly (COL ends up quite short based on crimp groove and my chamber requirements) but it works.

Now, to pull the 200 rounds of commercial cast boolits I loaded up too long, and melt the suckers down so I can make ones that work!

Still not sure where I am at with the primer pockets, but I will try this batch of cleaned pockets and see how it goes.

Gear & captain, you at least clean some rifle case primer pockets, right?

[DrCaveman]

Zuke

Gorgeous cases, but what about performance? And sorry for the ignorance/closed mindedness, but what is SS media? Stainless steel, I presume. Normal tumbler?

[soldierbilly1]

I have never cleaned a pistol primer pocket, and never had a primer that didn't fire. Guess I will now that I said that, maybe not.

Similarly, I have done thousands of pistol rounds, never had one misfire yet. Neve cleaned one pocket yet, only rifle rounds. Yes, I use Fed small pistol primers.
Maybe your pistola and not the technique?
billy boy

ETA: did you try firing these failed rounds in another gun of the same caliber? just curious. Or, re-striking it in the same gun? Hard primers?

[DrCaveman]

Bwana and alchemist

The more I think about it, I am pretty sure that the only FTF I have experienced (except those occurring in my model 19) have begun happening since I started 'cleaning' my cases after each shooting. You may have hit the nail on the head, even though I thought that I was drying them sufficiently.

Next batch of reloads will have two special groups: 1) cases deprimed and cleaned after cleaning. And 2) cases totally uncleaned, used as-is.

Third group will be normal, lightly cleaned case, no special attention to primer.

Cleaning cases may have just conveniently knocked itself out of my routine.

[williamwaco]

I clean primer pockets only for bench rest testing of bolt action rifles with > 20x scopes.

I have not cleaned a pistol primer pocket in 55 years.

The only failures to fire I experience occur with very old Smiths with worn out mainsprings.
Sometimes this can be fixed by increasing the tension but the only real fix is to replace the spring.

If you are a new reloader, test your primer seating by setting the newly primed case base down on a flat piece of glass ( or other surface known to be flat ) if the primer is not seated flush, the case will wobble. You can detect protruding primers that are not visible by this method.




.

[geargnasher]

SS media in a citric acid/water solution combined with the proper tumbler has to be the #1 best way to clean scroungy brass. When I get the rest of my shop finished I'm going to build one and put it by the wash-up sink.

I do clean primer pockets, and my preferred tool out of many is either the Lee tool or an ordinary, flathead pocket screwdriver. The only ones I clean, however, are rifle cases, and only because sometimes the primers don't seat exactly flush if I don't.

I've saved most of the primers I've ever fired except for maybe 8K or so that I've lost in IDPA competitions in the past, and I have nearly a 5-gallon bucket full. In 20 years of reloading, I have had exactly one FTF, and that was in a de-tuned .44 Smith with WLPs. Second strike fired it, and a quick tweak of the hammer spring pressure corrected it for all subsequent shots.

No doubt it's better to clean the pockets every time on every case, but really, in my world it has not made an actual difference in the pistol stuff either way.

Gear

[prs]

I use a wet tumbler, Thumbler's model B, citric acid, detergent, and water. Just eonugh liquid to cover the brass. Let it tumble a fre hours and the brass is clean, out side, inside, and when I deprime the pockets are clean too. Didna need any stainless steel bits and didna need to deprime before washing. I do let them dry thoroughly before running through the case feeder.

prs

[DrCaveman]

It sounds like I need to re-visit some advice regarding mainspring replacement on my model 19.

I will try the glass-surface method to better decide if I am seating them fully. But am I wrong or would most incomplete seatings be ignited by a second hammer drop, assuming proper spring health? I kinda thought that the first hammer strike seated the primer, then the second strike allowed the primer to do its magic.

I only experienced that phenomenon within my first few hundred rounds loaded while I was learning the basics of reloading, and chickening out on the pressure I applied while seating primers. Since then, no misfire has fired from a second strike from the same gun.

maybe my guns need a deeper cleaning. I can take out the guts of the GP100 and usually find some muck but I'm not sure how much deeper I can break down the CZ97. Oh well, good time to learn.

[tomme boy]

One other thing, does the revolver have a transfer bar? Maybe something is going on with that causing it to misfire.

[Shooter6br]

I always clean rifle primer pockets.Old benchrest habit.Pistol almost never

[44deerslayer]

My dad taught me to clean all primer pockets . I ve had 2 that didnt go off on an old S&w 29 the firing pin was broken oh and a lot of 22 lately.

[ku4hx]

I stopped cleaning pistol primer pockets 25-30 years ago. Of the tens of thousands of rounds I've fired during that time, I've had two (2) primer failures. Both of those were because of missing anvil.

Once the live primers were removed, both had no anvil and both went boom when covered and struck with a hammer on the concrete floor.

[tgator]

DrCaveman

Find somebody with a 625 to help you "unload" those long .45s. You will enjoy more than pulling them and may end up having one around for auto "seconds"!


Tim

[44man]

It is easy to make a de-capper and I have made many for friends. We would remove primers when done with a BPCR relay and toss the empties in a jug of soapy water.
I still use them for my 45-70 revolver because the pin has been removed from my size die.
I use the brush shown if pockets are dirty but I don't think pistol or even rifle pockets need cleaned but I do for BP.
I have never seen residue build up in pockets, it always looks the same.
For some strange reason my 45-70 revolver cases never get dirty, don't need tumbled and pockets are clean. I think it is the 4759 powder.
In 58 years of loading something, I have never had one of my loads FTF. I have had factory loads and .22's fail. Today, .22's are the worst.
I have a factory loaded .500 S&W in my hand right now that FTF with two strikes on the primer.
I have to wonder if most FTF episodes are from seating primers too hard after they bottom and cracking the compound????

[kenyerian]

I'm fairly particular about cleaning brass but I did have a FTF a couple of weeks ago with a 357 Ruger BlackHawk that does have a strong hammer spring. it was a Winchester primer. I tried it twice and it still didn't go ang so I tore it down the next day. From everything I could tell the primer was just harder than the rest of them. Very small indentation on it compared to the rest of that lot.

[captaint]

Doc,
If I were you, I would just size & deprime, then clean in the liquid. I mean, why not?? I'm thinking as long as you continue to not clean primer pockets, you're going to have failures. I have never loaded any ammo without cleaning primer pockets. I hate it - but I do it anyway. And this is one more reason I don't have a progressive press. Maybe I don't shoot as much as some of you guys. Just my .02. enjoy Mike

[Moonie]

I resisted for a long time but over the weekend (for my birthday this week) I ordered a tumbler and SS media. I got tired of the dirty media in my vibrating case cleaner and the brass coming out dull. Besides my young girls will get a kick out of polishing rocks as well, win/win.

I guess from now on I'll be cleaning primer pockets, used to do it for rifles many years ago, don't think I've ever cleaned pistol pockets.

[45-70 Chevroner]

Precisely the point I was going to make. If you use a liquid case cleaner, it works best if you decap the cases before soaking them. Ample time for the cases to dry thoroughly should help your situation.

A Lee decapping die doesn't cost much, is rugged as all get-out and will make decapping a piece o' cake.

As far as scraping the primer residue out of cases during normal reloading...I don't do it as a matter of routine. I only decap and clean as a separate step on really cruddy brass.

+ 1 for Alchemist: I use liquid cleaner on really dirty range brass but I always punch the primers out with a lee universal deprimer and after words I let them dry in the sun until I know they are dry. It you leave the primers in while cleaning with liquid you more than likley will have moisture problems and FTF's. Two FTF in 200 rounds, "not ecceptable", 2 in 2500 "acceptable". I have had quite a few FTF's over about 45 years, some my falt, some the guns falt and some the manufactures falt.

[Bwana]

I clean primer pockets only for bench rest testing of bolt action rifles with > 20x scopes.
I have not cleaned a pistol primer pocket in 55 years.
The only failures to fire I experience occur with very old Smiths with worn out mainsprings.
Sometimes this can be fixed by increasing the tension but the only real fix is to replace the spring.
If you are a new reloader, test your primer seating by setting the newly primed case base down on a flat piece of glass ( or other surface known to be flat ) if the primer is not seated flush, the case will wobble. You can detect protruding primers that are not visible by this method.
.

Seating flush with the bottom of the case does not ensure proper seating. Proper seating entails firmly seating to the bottom of the primer pocket.

Kenyerian wrote:
"I'm fairly particular about cleaning brass but I did have a FTF a couple of weeks ago with a 357 Ruger BlackHawk that does have a strong hammer spring. it was a Winchester primer. I tried it twice and it still didn't go ang so I tore it down the next day. From everything I could tell the primer was just harder than the rest of them. Very small indentation on it compared to the rest of that lot."

I open a Winchester SPM primer box the other day and it dragged on something while sliding the top off. It was a loose primer anvil. None of the primers in the tray was missing its anvil so I will be looking for one missing an anvil in the rest of that 1000 ct box. "Take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves." A quote from one of my Drill Sergeants 39 years ago.

[soldierbilly1]

Dr Caveman: did you second strike, re-fire those primers in those guns? did you later do a post mortem on the two rounds?
Please let us know your findings. I recently had a minor flood in my basement and 10 308 rounds (ordinary reloads) were completely submerged inside a plastic cartridge MTM box for three days. I took them out to the range ... all hit right where they were pointed, no FTF's.
I have wet primers in the past, and even inadvertently put lube on them ... they all fired.
I still think these fails are gun related.
Please let us know...
billy boy

[hanover67]

While primers are the reloading component we have the least control over as opposed to cases, bullets and powder charges, I am always amazed at how reliable they are - they almost always go off. The only FTF's I've had in recent memory were gun-related. I have a 1923 era Colt Army Special .32-20 and a couple of times an FTF occurred. I was using Winchester small rifle primers. I fired them again and they did go off. The gun has a loose, hammer-mounted firing pin and I think it just didn't go through the frame properly. I always clean my primer pockets, even for revolver cartridges.

[mpmarty]

On the CZ my experience is that there is a "safety" gizmo in the underside of the slide that blocks the firing pin unless it is shoved up by the trigger bar. Removing this has always cured misfires in my CZs and the very similar Witness pistols.

[DrCaveman]

Soldier Billy-

I definitely tried a second strike with each misfire. The indent on the primer got bigger, but no bang.

Here is my attempt at a post mortem. Pic below is a close up of one of the "bad" primers.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_226994f8cc9c63e1d7.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4834)

Pic below here is the primer pocket which it came from. Yeah, kinda dirty, but frankly not as dirty as the average one which I have been scraping out for the last couple of days. And those other ones shot fine.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_226994f8cc9c6583d2.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4835)

For comparison, here are four randomly selected primers which shot just fine. Same load, same cases, same session, same treatment, same gun. The one on the left looks awfully clean compared to the others, eh?
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_226994f8cc9c678435.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4836)

Im getting even more confused by all of this, but the one thing I havent done yet is a full breakdown of the GP100. May be telling.

Does any of this help with diagnosis?

[Shuz]

I load most of my handgun calibers on a progressive press, cleaning the primer pockets would defeat the purpose of the progressive press. No problems with primer ignition.

Plus 1

[44man]

Sometimes a weak hammer spring does not set off a primer but cracks away the compound so a second strike does not work.
There must be compound between the anvil and cup.
Every single revolver I own has over power hammer springs.
Ruger springs take a set and I had to change them every year shooting IHMSA because accuracy would drop. I now use Wolff springs only.

[DrCaveman]

44man-

When you say Ruger springs take a set, are you saying that factory standard strength springs simply don't get the job done? On top of that, you had to replace the Ruger-made over power springs annually?

So, I trust that the Wolff springs do not have to be replaced very often, if at all?

Oh yeah, I cleaned the Ruger very thoroughly, and there was no buildup within the trigger mechanism or inside the frame which I could suspect affected hammer spring strength. It was pretty clean when I opened it, actually.

[DrCaveman]

44man, again-

At the Wolff webpage, there is no offering for over powered Ruger hammer springs. Just under.

They claim 14 lb is factory. What are you using and where did you get it? Maybe I just need a new factory-level spring but I'd like to know what options there are.

[DrCaveman]

And brownell's is no more helpful.

[44man]

Ruger just makes one spring power depending on which gun.
I have had them shorten as much as 3/4" over time and the first indication was a drop in accuracy.
Go online right to Wolff springs, I use a 26# variable in my SBH and BFR's.
They are pretty cheap.

[Huntducks]

Pistol deprime Vib. clean that's it.

Varmit rifle do same.

Big game clean primer pockets with RCBS case master just a habit.

In 54 years of loading I doubt if I have had 1 primer that didn't go bang on fairly fresh primers and 4-5 on old primers like 30+ years that I use on plinking rounds.

[44man]

44man, again-

At the Wolff webpage, there is no offering for over powered Ruger hammer springs. Just under.

They claim 14 lb is factory. What are you using and where did you get it? Maybe I just need a new factory-level spring but I'd like to know what options there are.
Search more, they are there. You can buy a 3 pack, 24, 25 and 26# springs. You can even get 28# for rifle primers.
Factory is actually 22 to 23# for a BH, SBH.

[gefiltephish]

My first thought was also a weak main spring. I've recently had to go through the lighter spring arrangement for the women folk and have seen first hand what too light a spring and/or too little preload can do.

[gefiltephish]

From the Wolff site:

Hammer springs for the GP-100 series are the same as for the Super Redhawk and the SP-101 series revolvers.

Reduced Power...: 9, 10, 11 and 12 Lb.
Factory Standard.: 14 Lb.
Extra Power.........: None Available

[Lizard333]

The only primer pockets that get cleaned are on the brass that gets lubed before resizing. This is mainly rifle brass.

The exception is my 44 mag brass. It gets lubed and resized before I tumble because reloading it in my Dillon 550 is to much of a chore. Eliminating that step makes for a much more enjoyable reloading session. My shoulder is way more appreciative.

Your GP100 shouldn't give you to much of a problem with a light primer strike. Of the four I own, I have had no such issues. Is your pistol new?? Either way I would call ruger. The have awesome customer service and will send you a replacement spring for free. Just give them a call and tell them what's up.

[ShooterAZ]

I don't think I've ever cleaned out a primer pocket. Ever.

Emrah

That makes at least three of us. Primers, by their rather explosive nature, are self cleaning. I did it when I first started reloading 30+ years ago...don't waste your time. Try some Federal primers....your problem will probably go away.

[leadshooter5]

I never clean primer pockets on pistol brass. The only endemic ftf's have been with one S&W with a VERY light trigger, and on any S&W revolver with Wolf small pistol primers. The Wolfs work fine in any semi-auto I have, just not the flat spring S&W's. Being Russian, the primer cups are probably cast iron.

[DrCaveman]

Search more, they are there. You can buy a 3 pack, 24, 25 and 26# springs. You can even get 28# for rifle primers.
Factory is actually 22 to 23# for a BH, SBH.

I guess I neglected to mention that I am shooting a gp100. Gefiltphish stated in post #57 what I found. Do you have another source of springs, or is your experience just with Blackhawks?

[DrCaveman]

The only primer pockets that get cleaned are on the brass that gets lubed before resizing. This is mainly rifle brass.

The exception is my 44 mag brass. It gets lubed and resized before I tumble because reloading it in my Dillon 550 is to much of a chore. Eliminating that step makes for a much more enjoyable reloading session. My shoulder is way more appreciative.

Your GP100 shouldn't give you to much of a problem with a light primer strike. Of the four I own, I have had no such issues. Is your pistol new?? Either way I would call ruger. The have awesome customer service and will send you a replacement spring for free. Just give them a call and tell them what's up.

I bought it used, though i could not see any evidence of it having been fired. Good clean up job, I guess, and a tough gun. Would they still provide this awesome service to a second owner?

[DrCaveman]

That makes at least three of us. Primers, by their rather explosive nature, are self cleaning. I did it when I first started reloading 30+ years ago...don't waste your time. Try some Federal primers....your problem will probably go away.

The primers pictured are all Federal. I made the switch for good in my 38 spl hand loads after my smith refused to consistenly set off the CCI.

Now, as for the 45 (no primers pictured in this thread), those were the same CCI that have performed nearly flawlessly for me before now. Frankly I cannot pin the problems with the 45 directly on the primers, there were many things going wrong. Let's take that out of the discussion, and I'll just focus on fixing my gp100.

[Lizard333]

I bought it used, though i could not see any evidence of it having been fired. Good clean up job, I guess, and a tough gun. Would they still provide this awesome service to a second owner?

Give em a call. They are awesome. You got nothing to lose and everything to gain.

[williamwaco]

It sounds like I need to re-visit some advice regarding mainspring replacement on my model 19.

I will try the glass-surface method to better decide if I am seating them fully. But am I wrong or would most incomplete seatings be ignited by a second hammer drop, assuming proper spring health? I kinda thought that the first hammer strike seated the primer, then the second strike allowed the primer to do its magic.

I only experienced that phenomenon within my first few hundred rounds loaded while I was learning the basics of reloading, and chickening out on the pressure I applied while seating primers. Since then, no misfire has fired from a second strike from the same gun.

maybe my guns need a deeper cleaning. I can take out the guts of the GP100 and usually find some muck but I'm not sure how much deeper I can break down the CZ97. Oh well, good time to learn.

I have replaced around half a dozen main springs on S&W K frame revolvers over the years. It happens on old guns, say > 20 years or on guns that are shot a lot.

I have two model 19s right now. Both are quite old and both have the problem. If it fails to fire on the first strike, it will not fire after three or four. I can move it to another revolver and it will then fire first time.


.

[DrCaveman]

Williamwaco

My m19 serial puts it as made in the late 70's, it is a -3. I have only had it a few years, and have put probably 1500 38 spl rounds through it, and probably 250 mag loads.

Sounds like it might be time for a new spring. Dunno how many times I have to hear this before I just hit 'purchase now' on my screen. Buying things is so easy now, but I still always debate it for a ridiculous amount of time.

[soldierbilly1]

I just re-processed about 150 cases. I used a kinetic bullet puller and about 8/40 of the Win SP primers failed to ignite! All the Federal primers lit off well.
It took 8 -11 whacks with the puller to get the FWC's off. Did this compromise the primers?
thanks
billy boy

[gwilliams2]

That makes at least three of us. Primers, by their rather explosive nature, are self cleaning. I did it when I first started reloading 30+ years ago...don't waste your time. Try some Federal primers....your problem will probably go away.

That makes at least 4... I've never cleaned a pocket, did have a batch of Winchester SP primers that 2 or 3 out of every hundred just wouldn't go bang once. I don't buy Winchester primers anymore...

[Shiloh]

I don't think I've ever cleaned out a primer pocket. Ever.

Emrah

Never on pistol brass for me. Rifle pockets?? Yes.

Shiloh

[MikeS]

While speaking of primers, are the Tula LP primers much hotter than CCI? I just recently got a Tanfoglio GT41 (in 41AE caliber) and I've been loading 5.2gr of Unique with a 170gr cast boolit, and when using Tula primers they're getting flattened out like a load that too hot, and some of the primers are actually getting a hole punched in them from the firing pin. When I tried some CCI LP primers I didn't have either problem. I've been using the Tula primers without incident in 45ACP both with a Smith 22-4, and a Taurus PT1911, it's just with the GT41 that I have any problem. From everything I've found, 5.2gr of Unique isn't too hot for the 41AE, so it's not like I'm shooting a load that's even borderline hot!

[Char-Gar]

I have been loading handgun ammo for well over 50 years and 350,000 rounds and have never cleaned a primer pocket nor have problems like the OP.

What few FTF I have had, could be traced to a light hammer strike or the occasional bad primer.

[matdental]

What I am thinking is that the pockets have become fouled enough that in some instances this is preventing proper ignition.

My reload procedure is: lightly clean my fired cases using liquid solution (spent primers still in case), then run them through my sizing/decapping die, and prime. Then the rest. This means that no, I do not ream my primer pockets nor remove primers prior to cleaning.
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DRCaveman:

I am a fanatic on clean brass, but fail to understand the point.
What does a dirty primer pocket have to do with primers not firing? They ether fire, or not fire...Everything else is e-relevant, and down-stream. Ignition, and burning happens after the primer pops.
If the primer is struck and fires, but the flash hole prevents ignition, you would hear and feel the primer ignite. Even a primer with no powder will kick the bullet out of the case...
If the primer is properly seated, and properly struck, and nothing happens, that is an inert primer, or...if you will....a Dud....
Also I can’t imagine a normal flash hole so obstructed not to allow any kind of ignition, ignition delay, or otherwise... My guess is that the liquid cleaner is still wet in the primer pockets when you are seating the primers.

Wayne

[tenx]

Quit cleaning primer pockets 30 years ago. I put newly loaded ammo bullet down in a plastic box and run my finger over the primer feeling for seating depth. Also I don't touch primers with my hands/fingers when reloading, dump them in a primer flip tray, load the primer tube and load. Don't seem to recall having any misfires.

[Muddydogs]

Its not the no cleaning of primer pockets or your springs, its cleaning them in liquid with the old primers still in place. If you are going to use liquid deprime first, if you don't want to deprime first then tumble in dry media. This is happening in 2 weapons so the chance that both springs are bad is slim. As stated above by many posters there are a lot of us that don't clean pistol primer pockets and have loaded the same cases many times with no problems, I myself use CCI primers and have 10 firings on some .40 brass that I have never looked inside the primer pocket. Brass goes from gun to tumbler to LnL AP where its loaded.

Its usually the simplest answer in the end.

[mdi]

Perhaps a liquid cleaner is the culprit. Liquid gets into the flash hole and makes a "mud" out of the primer residue. Mud dries hard and prohibits new primer from seating completely. Hey, just a thought...

[ColColt]

I clean cases after every range visit whether I shot 50 or 300 in the Lyman Turbo 1200. Then, every pocket gets cleaned with the Lyman Primer Pocket Cleaning tool. I've used CCI primers since 1969 and never with rifle or pistol large or small have any failed.

Everyone does things differently as testified on the various posts. If I started having trouble as mentioned I'd look to a different source than the primer if I did the above. The mainspring sounds suspect to me. I have had a few FTF with the 45ACP due to not seating the primer completely flush or below but that was my fault, not the primer. I'd never use a liquid cleaner but that's me. Corncob media has always done the job.

[Lizard333]

While speaking of primers, are the Tula LP primers much hotter than CCI? I just recently got a Tanfoglio GT41 (in 41AE caliber) and I've been loading 5.2gr of Unique with a 170gr cast boolit, and when using Tula primers they're getting flattened out like a load that too hot, and some of the primers are actually getting a hole punched in them from the firing pin. When I tried some CCI LP primers I didn't have either problem. I've been using the Tula primers without incident in 45ACP both with a Smith 22-4, and a Taurus PT1911, it's just with the GT41 that I have any problem. From everything I've found, 5.2gr of Unique isn't too hot for the 41AE, so it's not like I'm shooting a load that's even borderline hot!

It sounds like the material the Tula primers are made out is a thinner. Hence the reason you poking holes in them and why they are more flat with your standard load. A chrony would prove this but I suspect this is your culprit.

[Bigslug]

I seriously doubt you're going to have failure to ignite because of a little bit of crud in the flash hole. Primers make a fairly substantial bang that can push a bullet well down the bore all by themselves - a few lumps of carbon in the way are just going to get blasted up into the powder charge.

Primer pocket uniforming and cleaning is something that is typically done for the most consistent ignition and lock/barrel time possible in order to create match-winning accuracy. It's also worth considering if you are worried about a high primer situation creating an out-of-battery slam fire in certain autoloaders. As far as making sure your powder actually burns - I don't think it's gonna help. Your problems are most likely from the primers themselves - no explosive, not enough explosive, no anvil, poorly installed anvil, overly thick primer cup. . .things of that ilk.

[joec]

I also use a Progressive press but still deprime my dirty brass before cleaning it regardless. I also use the Lee Primer pocket tool the other mentioned as it does the job all all of the pistol ammo I load. Federal primers also seem to be the easiest to fire since it doesn't take much. The only time I've had a problem with a primer is one put in wrong or not deep enough (factory ammo). I've used Remington, CCI, Wolf for the most part and do avoid federal.

[DrCaveman]

I seriously doubt you're going to have failure to ignite because of a little bit of crud in the flash hole. Primers make a fairly substantial bang that can push a bullet well down the bore all by themselves - a few lumps of carbon in the way are just going to get blasted up into the powder charge.

Primer pocket uniforming and cleaning is something that is typically done for the most consistent ignition and lock/barrel time possible in order to create match-winning accuracy. It's also worth considering if you are worried about a high primer situation creating an out-of-battery slam fire in certain autoloaders. As far as making sure your powder actually burns - I don't think it's gonna help. Your problems are most likely from the primers themselves - no explosive, not enough explosive, no anvil, poorly installed anvil, overly thick primer cup. . .things of that ilk.

Bigslug

Are you suggesting simply that the primers were defective? That is certainly the conclusion that I immediately came to, since I thought I had assembled the cartridges properly. But humility came into effect when I received many replies suggesting I hadn't let the cases dry sufficiently or that my guns' springs were to blame.

I have also come to my own hypothesis that I may have been mashing some primers during seating. I have taken it a little easier on the primer seating step since then.

I feel like my failure rate exceeds that which would be acceptable from a primer manufacturer, but maybe there are bad lots.

I guess the only way to suss this possibility out is to shoot more. Dang I wish I had a range out back of my house. Those pesky neighbors and city ordinances.

[Cadillo]

I have always cleaned the primer pockets on my rifle ammo since I started about 1970. I never did clean pistol cartridge primer pockets until I began using SS media about two years ago. I do it because I now routinely decap all cases by hand prior to cleaning. This gives me a chance to look for dinged mouths, splits, etc, and to sort by headstamp when desired.

Because the cases are deprimed before going into the water solution, I am assured that the pockets are not only clean, but most importantly thoroughly dry before the introduction of new primers. Keeping spent primers and the carbon normally found in uncleaned primer pockets off the loading bench keeps my Dillon presses and workbench very very clean.

This works best for me, but due to the time required to decap in a separate step, it is not for everyone.

There is a big difference in primers. All of my handguns are tuned, and I will not let a CCI pistol primer into my loading room. They are just too hard. I use WW, Remington, and Federal to very good effect. I have used CCI small rifle primers in my AR-15, which has a very hard hammer strike, and have had no problems.

I'm sure that there are devoted users of CCI pistol primers, and I'm very happy that you are pleased with their performance. I won't try to dissuade you and, will not be convinced that they are of any use to me.