Cartridge bullet in a cap and ball revolver.

[Skinny 1950]

I have a Uberti 1873 SAA revolver .44 cal. cap and ball revolver as well as a Uberti 1873 SAA .45 Colt. The .44 takes a .454 ball and the .45 Colt uses a .452 ...200 grain RNFP flat based two groove bullet.
I am wondering if I can use the .452 bullet instead of the .454 ball in the .44 SAA ??
The powder is Goex FFFG for the cap and ball and Unique in the .45 Colt.
I just got the cap and ball revolver a couple of days ago and haven't tried it with balls yet so there may be no need to use the bullets. If the balls prove inaccurate I was thinking of trying the bullets.

[nicholst55]

The reason that oversized balls are used in C&B revolvers is to give you a gas seal at the chamber mouth - that's why they always shave lead when seated.. Check to see if your .452 bullet will do this. Starting a conical bullet of any type straight in the chamber mouth is always a challenge with C&B revolvers. Starting the bullet anything other than perfectly straight is going to cause inaccuracy.

A lot of folks have found that round balls give superior accuracy to conicals in their C&B revolvers, in addition to being much easier to load. Be interested to see how this works out for you.

[Skinny 1950]

Sorry I got the spelling wrong the first time.
I have a .36 cal 1851 repro that I tried conical boolits in and as you said they were hard to load ie: nearly impossible without reshaping the base which I think reduced the accuracy which was why I wanted to use them in the first place.
I am guessing here but if I modify the base of flat boolits this will affect accuracy???

[Mike Brooks]

My C&B guns shoot as well or better than my cartridge guns. No need to not use RB.

[montana_charlie]

Sorry I got the spelling wrong the first time.
I have a .36 cal 1851 repro
Are you saying that when you asked your question about a "Uberti 1873 SAA revolver .44 cal. cap and ball revolver" that it was spelled wrong ... and that your actual question deals with a .36 caliber 1851 Colt reproduction?

If that is the new understanding, what was your question, again?

CM

[Bent Ramrod]

On the chance that you do have a .44 instead of a .36:

I bought one of those 1873 SAA cap-and-ball revolvers hoping to use it as a test bed for the .45 boolit moulds I'd accumulated.

First thing I did was bend the lever on the little cylinder-loading tool. Most cylindro-conical pistol boolits require a fair amount of force to get in those chambers. :o You aren't just swaging off a little ring of lead anymore! When I got that lever beefed up enough to work, I found that most of the .45's cut down the already limited powder space and they were, as stated, hard to seat straight.

If you can find a good example of the obsolete Ideal 450229, it should have a slight rebate on the aft end, just enough to start it straight into the cylinder. Otherwise, you will need to form a rebate with your sizer/lubricator, using a .439" die, if you can find one.

I like that cap-and-ball SAA, but it (and the C&B replicas in general) is really at its best with round balls. I chronographed the RBs vs the conicals and the RBs got higher velocity, just as good (or better) accuracy, and a lot less hassle in loading.

[Skinny 1950]

I spelled Boolits wrong on my initial post.
I will try the RB this weekend and if they aren't accurate I will try to re-size the boolits and see if they work better, thanks all for the information.

[bunkysdad]

What about the Lee conical bullet molds for cap & ball revolvers? They have a slightly smaller base to ease straight loading, and a double lube groove. I have been considering buying one in .456 for my Old Army.

[Good Cheer]

The way I do it is to size the boolit to just slip into the chamber and leave the front band big to seal off just like a round ball. Remember that if you go that route you are driving pressures way, way up. You can easily damage your revolver with excessive charges, hardened projectiles and especially with substitutes for black powder.
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/wandconicals.jpg

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Note: you need to cast them out of pure lead for any hope of success. Velocity will be terribly low, and pressures will rise markedly.

Rich

[edsmith]

I was given one of those 1873 cap n balls, it is now a 45 long colt.

[Bullet Caster]

Just my 2 cents worth. Why do ya think that they call 'em cap 'n' ball revolvers? I've only ever shot round balls out of my Pietta 1860 SAA .44 cal. and it was plenty accurate. Enough to not want to shoot conicals. Here's mine:http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_211414efb8083c3396.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3148)This thing is a real shooter. Just wish I had a mould for it. BC

[Good Cheer]

Here are some pictures to show how the original boolits were made. I've always thought it was a darn shame there wasn't a .40 bore percussion revolver that a long cylinder for conicals and a nice charge.

http://www.civilwaroutpost.com/m7/BU13--colt-army-44-revolver-bullet.html

http://www.shilohrelics.com/cgi-bin/Display_Item.asp?98706

http://www.hdwt.net/bullets/lot13-6.jpg

http://www.joshuasattic.com/search/search.asp?category=DugBullPistol|22&submit=submit

The reason I size conicals to fit the cylinder is the same as why it's done for cartridge revolvers. You're reloading and you need to make the boolit fit the gun. In the pictures you can see how on original boolits the bases were made to slip into the cylinder. When you make your own you can do it with precision.

[fryboy]

i cant say about the lee 36 cal but the 44 cal conical rocks ! mushrooms good and shoots well from every one i have tried it in ( in a pinch and if you dont mind the mess or lube with tumble lube - they fit in a 45 acp and do decent as long as cast from soft lead )

[TommyT]

I've been casting a Lee 155 grain .452 in soft lead for years and using in my Pietta 1858 Reminton. It gives a good tight fit and won me a few awards at N-SSA skirmishes in the past.

[lreed]

Hello: The Ruger Old Army will shoot very well with .45 acp cast boolets, sized to snug fit the chambers,of course this isn't a traditional cap&ball pistol. In my opinion lack of powder space would be a limiting factor for using modern cast in the old style revolvers--- low velocity. lreed

[bunkysdad]

Awesome information. I am going to look at this some more.

[BIG BEAR]

I was given one of those 1873 cap n balls, it is now a 45 long colt.

I shoot r.b. in my r.o.a, but shoot a sized.454" LEE r.e.a.l. pure lead bullet as well over 30 gr. fffg. tried 25 and 35 gr, but 30 seems to work best. My KIRST 45 colt cylinder is coming home from ARIZONA by months end. looking forward to all the possible combinations of powder and loads. :bigsmyl2:

[edsmith]

I have a R&D conversion in 45lc for my roa and love it. you can try all kinds of loads and boolits, I shoot .457 round ball, lee 200gr. rnfp and 255gr. rnfp. I also epoxied a 1/2" x 1/8"piece of alu. in the screwdriver slot so I did not have to use a screwdriver to turn the cylinder pin latch.

[Springfield]

If you want to cast our own bullets for a C&B and don't want to use balls for some reason(I prefer them, myself) you can buy rebated bullet moulds from www.biglube.com They are made for the task and will be less troublesome than using regular plain base cast bullets. I have the original 44 caliber mould, haven't bought the 36 cal mould as I have no guns in that caliber.

[Skinny 1950]

Just finished cleaning the gun after a day at the range,the round balls worked great even better than the .45 Colt cartridges with the 200 grain RNFP boolit. I am going to stick to the round balls for now.
Took some pictures at the range:

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/Skinny1950/NewgunsApril92011006-1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/Skinny1950/RangeApril162011Revolvingcarbine009.jpg

25 grains of Goex FFFG and some cornmeal filler

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/Skinny1950/RangeApril162011Revolvingcarbine004.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/Skinny1950/RangeApril162011Revolvingcarbine005.jpg

Under the loading stand

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/Skinny1950/RangeApril162011Revolvingcarbine007.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/Skinny1950/RangeApril162011Revolvingcarbine003.jpg

[af2fb751]

Nice pictures, Skinny!

I tried regular cartridge boolits, but never as easy or accurate as the round ball. On the other end of the cylinder, I put in ready cap-fitted nipples. Not wanting any mischief from loose fitting caps and the risks that entails, I seat the #10's with the press. When at the range, I swap out the cap-less nipples for these.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v48/Aeisir/Reloading%20Tech/DSC_1323perccap3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v48/Aeisir/Reloading%20Tech/DSC_1322perccap25.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v48/Aeisir/Reloading%20Tech/DSC_1321perccap2.jpg

[Dan Cash]

I feed a Ruger Old Army a 200 grain Lyman bullet that is a slip fit in the chambers. Seated properly, compressing the powder charge, the bullet is swaged or bumped up to seal the chamber. Accuracy is superb. Never had any luck with the rebated or heeled bullets and shaving lead rings. Myth and superstition travel with black powder but no need to be enchanted by the two.

[Simonpie]

Just for reference, here's a photo of a .36 mould with both round ball and bullet. Note that the heel of the bullet is reduced so it falls into the cylinder, then it has room to rotate under the loading lever. As I recall, it shot better with balls.http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_181624f8e163a0db16.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4843)

[LUBEDUDE]

I've shot .454's in the Ruger Old Army as well, however they were 180 gr. hard cast, over 30 gr of fff. Worked great.

[Skinny 1950]

Simonpie ..you are right here is a picture of a mould for an 1849 Pocket Colt .31 cal that I have,much the same as yours the base of the boolit is smaller....never noticed that before.

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/Skinny1950/1849MoldPocketColt001.jpg

[LUBEDUDE]

Af2 - using the press to seat caps seems extreme. Cap and ball is pretty basic. You can safely and firmly seat your caps, if you have the correct size and nipple by just using a piece of dowel rod or deer antler. As I'm sure you know, never use your fingers.

[Bent Ramrod]

I always put the cylinder back into the gun before capping. The idea of a loaded, capped cylinder slipping out of my well-lubricated hands and falling on concrete or a rock gives me the vapors.

If I was a Pony Express rider and anticipating being in harm's way, having a ready-to-go cylinder loose would be in order, but not at a range or for casual plinking.

Skinny, that loading tool is very impressive. Did you make it yourself? With that one you could probably seat a Paul Jones boolit in that cylinder.:mrgreen:

[af2fb751]

Af2 - using the press to seat caps seems extreme. Cap and ball is pretty basic. You can safely and firmly seat your caps, if you have the correct size and nipple by just using a piece of dowel rod or deer antler. As I'm sure you know, never use your fingers.

Yeah, it's a bit over the top. After 34 years of capping the normal way, I tried this and like it. When I'm at the table in my shooting lane, I spin the capped nipples on; it's fast and easier now for me than fumbling with those little things and not always getting a good seat. Usually I'm lucky and have someone shooting 50 BMG in the next lane which doesn't help with seating caps the normal way. In all those years I haven't had a cap discharge when it shouldn't, at least with this new fangled method seating them just isn't much of a worry.

[Hang Fire]

Best accuracy for a boolit in my Pietta 58 Remy for C&B and a Kirst .45 LC cylinder. Is this special order Saeco three cavity, bevel base two lube groove, 185 grain SWC cast 1:20. I picked it up used in local gun shop for 30 bucks with handles. ($250.00 new) It shoots a little high with the Kirst cylinder, but is POA and POI dead on with 34 grains Graf”s 2F BP in the C&B cylinders.

[Skinny 1950]

Skinny, that loading tool is very impressive. Did you make it yourself? With that one you could probably seat a Paul Jones boolit in that cylinder.:mrgreen:

The loading press was made buy the guy that I bought the gun off of. The wood has collapsed under the cylinder so I am going to beef it up with a brass plate.
I like this method of loading...more like mass production than loading each chamber one at a time.

[greywolf444]

I just traded 1873BP away for something newer to play with. It was fun to shoot and always felt real good in the hand.

I stuck to using roundballs and the accuracy was very good. On a good day I could put 4-5 out of 6 into a soda can at 50 yds. (Back when my eyes were younger.)

I made a" speedloader" out of a full moon clip and some 10mm brass. Put the powder in a butter dish and scoop all six 10mm's full. PUT COVER BACK ONTO THE POWDER!!!. Place inverted cylinder over moon clip and flip over. Then proceed with the bullets on the loading stand. Even made a little tray which would hold six balls right there for easy handling. I had another moon clip with 40 s&w cases in it for a lighter load. I used 3fg holy black only and she shot great. I wiped a little pan lube across to mouths of the cylinders and wiped some onto the cylinder pin. Cornmeal and cream of wheat seemed to improve accuracy a little but I rarely bothered with it.

Put an old toothbrush in your kit, you're gonna need it to get into all the nooks and crannies.

[TXGunNut]

My C&B guns shoot as well or better than my cartridge guns. No need to not use RB.


Balls are what a C&B revolver is all about. Cheap, easy, pleasant to shoot. Moulds are even cheap and pure lead is as close as a supply of stick-on wheelweights.