Swiss or KIK in a 45 2 7/8

[M-Tecs]

I need recommendations for a 2 7/8” (45/110) using black powder. I am switching to a 45 2 7/8” from a 45/70 for 600 to 1,000 yard black powder cartridge. I love everything about Swiss except for the price. I had been using Swiss FFG in the 45/70. I was hoping to get acceptable result with a lower cost powder.

A 25 pound case of KIK is $325.00 and a 25 pound case of Swiss is $557.50.

I have been hearing good things about KIK. For the 45/110 using KIK do I want F1 or 1.5F? Does screening help KIK with accuracy & consistency? How has KIK been working for long cartridge?

Since the 45/110 is new to me what grade of Swiss do you recommend, F1 or 1.5F?

Other options are Goex and Schuetzen.

Thanks:drinks:

[PanaDP]

There's some discussion of KIK powder relative to swiss here (http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18989)you may be interested in.

[GuzziRider]

Hi M-Tecs,
Long time 45-110 shooter here. I recomend the 1f in any brand you choose. It works best in the long case. I use Goex myself and have tried the Swiss but couldn't see enough diffrence to make the extra cost worth it. I can't comment on KIK as I have not tried it. The 110 is a bit punishing to shoot all day but I have stuck with mine for a long time as it does get the job done out past 600 yards no matter what the conditions are.

[Dan Cash]

If you can get some KIK I think you will be pleased. I recently got some to compare with GOEX and find the KIK a very superior propellant.

[Don McDowell]

My only real experience with the 110 is watching a few folks shoot it, and shooting a few rounds thru their rifles.
Now with that said, 1.5 KIK has been working very well in 2 rifles .1f goex is working well in a couple of others, and 1.5 Swiss has been reported as doing well in another. And 1f goex express has set a couple of records, but alas it's not available until maybe in 2013 again.
Order up a 5 lb lot from Powder Inc. That way if it doesn't work for you you don't have a case of the stuff laying around.Or have him split up a 10 lb lot with a little of everything and start load testing.

[John Boy]

Now with that said, 1.5 KIK has been working very well in 2 rifles

The new KIK 1.5F is really a tight sieve ratio of FFg grade with some FFFg grade powder

KIK 1.5Fg (Lot 3910)
12- Mesh - Trace
14 Mesh - Trace
20 Mesh – 95.87%
30 mesh – 4.13%
40 mesh – Trace

[Don McDowell]

Don't know about the sieve ratios etc, but I do know that both of Dick Savages 110's running paper patch bullets shoot very well with it. One of them uses 105 grs and the other seems to think 106 grs is where it needs to be.

[montana_charlie]

Going by the screen ratios posted in the past by John Boy, the granule size of KIK Fg is very similar to Goex Cartridge.

Goex Cartridge – (05-37) 02OC07B
12 mesh – 0.62% retained
14 mesh – 0.03% retained
20 mesh – 97.54% retained
30 mesh – 01.70% retained
Through – 0.11%

KIK Fg (Lot 3910 - 2010 vintage)
12 Mesh – Trace
14 Mesh - Trace
20 Mesh – 99.99%
30 Mesh – Trace


CM

[Don McDowell]

Just looking at it it looks a bit like Cartridge the powder kernels themselves are a bit thinner than Cartridge. It's a little faster than Cartridge and a whole bunch cleaner burning.

[semtav]

If it was me, Id get a half case of Swiss 1F, and a couple pounds of several other powders you want to try. Work up your best load with Swiss 1F, then see if you can even come close to that load with any other powder.

[John Boy]

Just looking at it it looks a bit like Cartridge the powder kernels themselves are a bit thinner than Cartridge. It's a little faster than Cartridge and a whole bunch cleaner burning.
Charlie - add: KIK charcoal is Alder Buckthorn and CTG is yellow maple. Plus when I examined the KIK Fg foul, the minimal amount of micron sized unburned charcoal was real fine while I have seen long slivers of charcoal in CTG.
Also, the KIK grains are more shiny than CTG. Says to me that KIK is polished longer than CTG which compresses the grains better than CTG. In addition, CTG grains are angular and KIK is more rounded.

I'm not slamming Goex CTG because it's the only grade of their powder that I have made good reloads from. In fact when it was discontinued, I cleaned out all the CTG from my local supplier that he had in the magazine.

[montana_charlie]

Charlie - add: KIK charcoal is Alder Buckthorn and CTG is yellow maple.
The quote you replied to was from McDowell.
I only mentioned the similarity in granule size ...

CM