Project possibility

[joeb33050]

If you machinist guys are looking for a new project, here's one. I'm told to push the ball down with the same pressure on the powder on my muzzle loader, else the ball will shoot to a different place. I find this a little difficult.
I can imagine a gizmo on my loading rod that hooks on and is adjustable so that the gizmo hits the muzzle just when the powder-ball column is the right height; and stops the loading rod from going any further. A loading-rod-stopper-device. A block of wood with a hole drilled in it for the loading rod, to the proper depth, would do it, but wouldn't be adjustable. If the block of wood had a screw in the hole from the top, it would be adjustable. Can you begin to see why I don't post here very often?
Anybody?
joe brennan

[45 2.1]

Not the same thing as you were told.

[tommag]

I remember reading about a device that I think was called the Kadooty that was used to ensure consistant pressure on the ramrod. I beleive it had a spring in it and you pushed the rod until the spring compressed fully.

[redneckdan]

you're after pressure not OAL. You need some sort or pressure measurement system in order to assure than compression is equal every time. Some sort of alibrated spring system like a lee hardness tester might work, on up to digital peizo electric stuff.

[floodgate]

Think: "Linear Torque Wrench"!

floodgate

[utk]

you're after pressure not OAL. You need some sort or pressure measurement system in order to assure than compression is equal every time. Some sort of alibrated spring system like a lee hardness tester might work, on up to digital peizo electric stuff.

I don´t know much about muzzleloaders (yet, but I´m learning) so I deleted my earlier proposal above.

Instead, what do you think of this:
There are "automatic center punches" or whatever they´re called. No hammer required. You press on the top and when enough pressure is applied some internal mechanism releases and smacks the poined end.
This could perhaps be compared to a linear torque wrench?

[MT Gianni]

If it is difficult to push with the same pressure as the bullet goes down the bore it could be due to machining differences in the bbl. Shooting it helpd to smooth these out as well as working on foot positioning and technique to maintain even psi. Just avoiding starting and stopping helps. Gianni.

[twotoescharlie]

Hey JoeB,

keep working at it (your muzzleloader) after a while you will get the hang of it and it will just feel natural loading it. It may take a while but it will come to you.

TTC

[Scrounger]

I got a project for some of you guys with too much time and energy... Build a Ballistic Pendulem. That was how people figured out velocities before the "Electronic Age" which really only started about 50 years ago. It would be neat to build the pendulem and test it side by side with today's chronographs. Probably enough meat there for a magazine or internet story. You could find plans easy enough and you could scrounge everything you need in the dump without buying anything. And you'd be the only kid on the block who has one....

http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~phy-demo/demo-txt/1m40-40.html

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.sci-spot.com/images/Ballistic/pendulum.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.sci-spot.com/Mechanical/ballistic.htm&h=372&w=500&sz=48&hl=en&sig2=MMm3WdVk0PrPJBRiTJ_TVA&start=7&um=1&tbnid=Q0j7mO6EtgHjVM:&tbnh=97&tbnw=130&ei=XmUVRuilDqfoiQHFh-ynBw&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dballistic%2Bpendulum%2Bphoto%26svnum% 3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DGGIH,GGIH:2007-04,GGIH:en%26sa%3DN

[waksupi]

Sam Fadala and Jim O'Meara did some pressure loading tests about 25 years or so ago. They used a regular bathroom scale, and used the same amount of pressure, with the rifle on the scale, to load each shot. Don't remember the results, aside from Jim said it was a pain in the butt to load like that. I don't remember if the test was published or not. I'll ask Jim when I talk to him.

[Ricochet]

The problem I see with the constant pressure method is that the force needed to push the boolit down on the powder constantly changes as the bore condition does. I think the constant volume method that the originally posted device suggestion would produce should be more consistent than measuring for constant pressure. Constant seating pressure could be like continually and somewhat randomly varying your seating depth in cartridge loading.

[Buckshot]

.............Powder fouling in the breech can alter the charge height, however projectile pressure on the charge can be consistant regardless of the charge height.

You could make that fairly simply. And yes there was the Kadooty tool. A cylinder closed on one end containing a spring. Another similar cylinder inside the first to compress the spring. Mill a window in the outside cylinder and scribe a witness mark. On the inside sliding cylinder have a scale which shows through the window and there ya go.

You do have to finalize some details like capturing the sliding cylinder inside the outer cylinder (or sleeve), and a means to 'key' it so it doesn't rotate.

................Buckshot

[Bret4207]

Someplace years ago I saw a drawing or photo of a ballistic pendulum that was pretty much a hunk of steel on a ball bearing axle with a pencil hooked to it. You shot the steel "target", the thing swung on the bearings and the pencil made a mark on a paper "graph". Then there was some sort of math equation you did using the bullet weight to figure velocity and foot lbs energy. Way over my limited math skills, but interesting.

[Duckiller]

I believe the American Rifleman had an article, with plans and necessary calculations, on building and using a ballistic pendulum. Good sense and limited finances prevented me from building one. It was MASSIVE and the weight of the pendulum changed every time it was used. Calcs were not that simple to a young man that had not yet met hand crank Monroes or Friedens. This was in the 50's when I was still in high school. $10.00 computers that fit in your shirt pocket and electronic cronos have made life MUCH simpler.

[shooter575]

[QUOTE=Scrounger;169188]I got a project for some of you guys with too much time and energy... Build a Ballistic Pendulem. That was how people figured out velocities before the "Electronic Age" which really only started about 50 years ago. It would be neat to build the pendulem and test it side by side with today's chronographs. Probably enough meat there for a magazine or internet story. You could find plans easy enough and you could scrounge everything you need in the dump without buying anything. And you'd be the only kid on the block who has one....

Scrounger,The Ballistic Pendulem just measured the ME. For MV I saw pics of a civil war era chronograph, It was two huge discs of cardboard on a axel spaced 10 feet apart.It would rotate at a constant speed.After a round passed through both discs the degree diffrence was figured that gave time inbetween discs. This was all done with quill and ink.
Stick with a electronic version.

[Scrounger]

If you have energy and bullet weight, you can compute velocity. Correct, the ballistic pendulum measured energy (at that point, not at the muzzle); but using the weight of the bullet, you could compute the velocity at which it impacted. Another huge dose of math would give you the muzzle velocity. Of course you had to know the BC of the bullet; Don't know it? No problem; get readings from your ballistic pendulum at two different ranges, say 50 and 100 yards; the different readings would allow you to compute the two velocities, determine the bullet BC, and then compute the muzzle velocities. You are most definitely right, stick with the modern chronograph unless you got a bad case of masochism.

[Scrounger]

Yes, I see how that Civil War version would work. I could do the math but I wouldn't want to... About the first chronograph I remember seeing was a friend's Ohler, their first model. It had the sensors on a rod to shoot over, of course but the rest of it was sure different. There was a box with a 4 position switch and a ten position switch; You set the switch to the 4 different positions in order and rotated the ten position switch from one to zero. At one of the ten positions, a light would come on, and you wrote down that number. Doing this in all 4 position settings of the other switch gave you a four digit number that you looked up on their chart to get the actual velocity. The 4 digit number of course was the fraction of a second that the bullet was between the sensors. You could dispense with their chart and use division to get the velocity, 1/xxxx. Modern chronographs are so much better, aren't they?