Proper crimping?

[**oneshot**]

I am new to handgun reloading. I noticed after shooting my handloads that the crimp was still present in the brass, not as harsh but it was still there. I'm looking for some pictures or really good references as to the proper crimp.

I'm going to load a few test rounds in the morning with graduations in the crimp and see if I get bullet movement.

Thanks
Tom

Sorry,
I'm loading for a 41 Rem Mag in a Ruger Blackhawk. I'm using H110 and WLP primers. Remington brass (winchester brass is my next batch since they carry it locally in stock) I've loaded three different bullets: Remington 200gr hollow point, Remington 210gr softpoint, and Hornady 210gr XTP's. I adjusted my dies with each bullet to get proper seating and length. I fired several loads with each bullet and noticed the crimp after I resized and went to trim they were very snug on the pilot. All were new brass, sized and trimmed to length.

As I said, I'm new to handgun reloading and this may be normal and/or nothing to worry about.

Thanks again
Tom

[454PB]

You don't say what cartridges you're loading, but my crimp intensifies as the pressure and recoil increase. If the crimp is still visible, you are either using very thick walled brass, or the pressure is too low to iron out the crimp. In my magnum handguns, I crimp heavily, and do it as a seperate operation from boolit seating. As long as you don't damage the boolit or brass, there is no such thing as too much crimp IMHO. If you are loading mild .38 specials, you only need enough crimp to prevent boolit movement in recoil.

[MT Gianni]

I think you are on the right track. When you shoot a couple of rounds and open the cylinder seeing movement then you haven't got enough crimp. Obviously heavy bullets and faster loads insrease the need to crimp tighter. Gianni.

[pumpguy]

I would say 454 and Gianni have it exactly right. The only drawback I could think of would be case life. If you crimp really deep and then flare before seating, you might stress the brass some. I have not run into this, but, I would watch for it. Somebody here who loads a lot more than me would probably be able to tell you if this is really a concern.

[versifier]

Yes, you do get neck splits on revolver cases from working the brass, but that's the cost of doing business. They don't last for as many loading with heavy loads as other kinds do in different actions. (Cast boolit shooters need to watch for it in rifle cases for the same reason and anneal them when necessary, though I've never heard of doing it for handgun cases.) But more than just for keeping the boolit from backing out of the case under recoil, crimping allows the powder burn to build sufficient pressure before the boolit exits the case and jumps across the cylinder gap through the forcing cone and into the barrel. To see how it affects accuracy and velocity, try this experiment: Load up a box of a load with known performance, but don't apply any crimp. Single load them in the revolver, chrono and measure group sizes. Compare the results to those of the same load crimped. I think it will be a real eye opener - it was for me when I did it many years ago with .357mags and my trusty S&W m19. Even now with my single shot .357 Contender there is a noticable difference in accuracy and ES between crimped and uncrimped loads. I notice the same thing when using fast powders in rifle cases, too. Most of them shoot better for me with a Factory Crimp.

[44man]

If you want to see an "overdone" crimp, look at .454 factory loads. They almost ruin the brass for reloading. If done that hard with a cast boolit, it would size the boolit coming out.
Since I depend on case tension more then crimp, even my 460 gr boolit loads in the .475 only use a moderate crimp, make that a "decent" crimp. I have left one round in a chamber for 16 shots and the boolit didn't move.
It is a balance between enough crimp and not enough. There is not any reason to get the crimp so hard that it ruins brass or boolits. If boolits move under recoil, the crimp needs tightened a little or case tension needs improved, or both.
I don't know any way to explain how much to crimp, in writing, it has to be seen.

[dubber123]

I believe that case neck tension is probably more important than crimp. I have a .475 Linebaugh that puts a 440 out at almost 1,350fps. and I use a very moderate crimp. I was using heavier, but lightened it up significantly after noticing the bullets didn't move at all. Not only do they still not move, I actually saw a small gain in velocity. I believe this is due to the great neck tension my Hornady dies provide. My brother has to use a very heavy crimp in his 500, and it still pulls bullets even with less recoil. I think the expander ball needs reducing.

[Dale53]

I have been made a "believer" in significant case neck tension in heavy revolver loads. Years ago, when the .44 magnum was fairly new, I got my first Model 24 S&W .44 Special. I loaded it with great pleasure for several years with Unique as the propellant. I was using a OLD set of Pacific dies (.44 Special). Then ball powders came upon the scene and I decided to load some heavy .44 special loads using Win 296. I loaded up a box and went shooting. Nearly every other shot I would get a "blooper" and actually had a couple of bullets fail to clear the barrel. Boy, was I embarrassed. I did some checking and discovered that the full length sizing die was not sizing the case down enough for proper case neck tension. I went for a set of RCBS Carbide .44 Magnum dies. This INDEED greatly increased case neck tension and TOTALLY eliminated the bloopers. Before I "graduated" to the new dies, I tried increasing the crimp and it made absolutely NO difference in ignition. Still had "bloopers". Increasing the case neck tension was THE answer.

Elmer Keith mentioned his views on case neck tension (totally agreed with my findings) in his little book written in 1936. I just followed his lead. Elmer sure knew what he was talking about (AGAIN:) ).

FWIW

Dale53