Confusion on what I would need to swage

[Muddydogs]

So I am very interested in this hole swaging deal. I do a little casting so have some understanding of that process but am a little confused as to what I need for swaging.

I am interested in swaging .40 165 grain bullets and .223 55 grain bullets.

First question I have is will my old Rock Chucker press handle swaging with BT Sniper dies?

I think I am looking at BT's one step .40 die with the hollow point and XTP punch. It appears that I need to purchase a die, and XTP punch as well as a expander die?

I am lost on the BT 223 set up. I see some dies listed but then this or that isn't included.

Guess I am looking for some info on what I need to get started and what additions are nice to have but not necessity to start out.

Thanks guys.

[GRUMPA]

First off welcome to the money pit.

I'm somewhat new to the whole sagging game myself but I think I learn on the faster side. The 9mm to 40 is really simple to do, and I also do the 40cal to 45 as well and that one takes some time to almost master.

I use the RCBS RCII press for all of my swagging so far without an issue. I did stock up on pure lead though and for some strange reason just over 150lbs of this stuff just isn't enough for me. I do have WW lead but I would rather use pure lead.

As far as the 223 set up goes someone else is going to have to chime in on that part.

And now I'm on the hunt for a good (used) digi-scale so I don't have to use my beam scale to weigh out my cases, that takes me a gawd awful amount of time to do.

[BT Sniper]

The 40 cal swage die I offer is a great set up for anyone getting into swaging, very easy to use and inexpensive in relitive terms. The bullets they make from 9mm brass shoot and perform very well. In my opinion everyone should be making and shooting a 40 cal it is so simple.

I am having a lot of fun with the 22 cal dies too. Took the bullets out ground squirrel shooting this weekend and they perfromed very well. At the range I was getting some very impressive groups too. Most under .5 MOA. These 22lr jacketed bullets are capible of some very good accuracy if you ask me.

I'll post a sepperate thread on the 22 cal dies with what I have to offer. I can offer everything you need which will include the 4 die set (derim, core swage, core seat and point form die, either 6s or 9s ogive) as well as the autoejector for a package price around $800. I think you will find that is a pretty resonable offer since it will get you everything you need and allow you to use any decent reloading press without any modifcations AT ALL! No press to buy or alter just insert the dies and base punches in any decent press, attach the simple autoeject and your good to go!

In compare the 40 cal die can be had for $300 all set to go or $400 with teh XTP option.

Welcome to the sight. Everything you need to know can be found here.

Good shooting

Brian

[wallenba]

Confused? ME TOO! I go to the Corbin website and it is so busy to the eye and the text digresses back and forth. The parts list does not seem to reflect by components named in the descriptive areas. I just give up and leave.
It might just be me. I have always been a visually oriented person. I understand things much better after watching, THEN reading.

[runfiverun]

in most sets there are steps to follow.
in a 22 set.
you de-rim the cases with a punch and a die by pushing the cases through it.

you need a core of some sort, and the next die is to swage this into the same weight and size.
you can skip that step if your cores are within a couple of tenths of a grain for general shooting.

you have another die for core seating.
this puts the core into the jaxket and compresses it.

a point forming die is next it makes the nose shape.

and some use a final sizing die to make sure the bullets are the same diameter.

bt's one step dies use a core seater [with a notcher insert if wanted]
and a forming die,
that bumps up the bullets diameter and forms the nose.

if you have your core weight set properly, and don't want a notch, you can put the core in the case and swage into shape in just the point forming die.
hence the one step designation.

[Utah Shooter]

Well I thought that I could help answer a couple of questions but it seems as though they have been pretty well answered.

Welcome aboard and if you wanna see some of the equipment or a chat on the phone it appears that I am pretty close to you.

[Lizard333]

Nothing against BT but I went with RCE for my swaging setup. About 1400$ got the walnut hill press and a set of 223 dies to make a flat base 55gn HP or a 62g FMJ. This included the jacket maker that makes jackets out of 22LR cases. In fact, I am going to Buying a set of BTs dies to use 40 cal brass and make 44 mag bullets. I'll be using an old RCBS press.

This site has the most helpful people. Keep reading and asking questions. You'll get there. Nothing money won't fix!! ;)

[Muddydogs]

Wow $800 for 223 and $400 for .40? While I enjoy reloading and realize that it will never save me money I just don't see the worth of swaging. I didn't realize that it was that much to get going. I can purchase 8000 223 bullets for the cost of dies an I suspect with a mold for cores and a few other items I could probably buy 10,000 223 bullets which is a lot of bullets. While the .40 is better I suspect that I could purchase at least 6000 FMJ rounds for the cost of dies, core mold and other items. Nothing against swaging as I understand the need to keep the hands and mind busy and I still might get into the .40 cal swaging but I just don't see spending that kind of money to spend hours turning out bullets. Guess I will get a little more involved in casting. Thanks for the info guys.

[BT Sniper]

That is the exact response I have seen for years reguarding the cost. No problem but it is sad to see those interested get turned off at the idea of swaging simply becasue of the cost of the "22 cal" die set. I think Corbin must have done a pretty good job of marketing to get everyone interested in the idea of "free" 22 cal bullets only to have them turned away by the price. The 22 cal from 22lr brass is not difficult at all to make but does take a bit of tallent to make a good set of dies. The initial sticker shock of the 22 cal set might seem high but ask anyone that has tried to make them how much effort goes into these dies. The initial cost factor is why I started offering the 40 cal one step swage die. It is even less without the XTP notch die, heck skip my universal die and expander you get a base price of $225 and can use a 40 cal expander die to prep thh 9mm brass with. How much will a shooter spend in a year on bullets? Most recover teh cost of the 40 cal die in the first month or two of making bullets.

It is a hobby. Try to find someone near by that swages bullets that might let you make a couple. Most of us, and even those that are just getting into swaging for the first time, do it because it is a lot of fun and rewarding on a personal level. To be able to make and shoot bullets no one else does is a pretty good feeling. The first time you see a perfect JHP bullet magicaly pop out of a swage die might make you feel different about the time, effort and costs involved.

Still I say good shooting and I welcome anyone to give swaging a try, you might just like it :)

BT


p.s. Hope I didn't come across harsh, I certainly didn't intend to. It is just a comon story of many that are interested in this great hobby but turned off by the cost of the "22 cal" set of dies. Seen it happen a lot in the last 4 years on this sight and frequently going further back on other sights. I got to say though for anyone interested just ask around about the simplicity of the 40 cal one step die and the bullets it makes from scrap 9mm brass.

[runfiverun]

they are tools and do more than just the one thing.
i use my 44 one step die, to take 375 cast boolits and make 280 gr gas check 44 rn flat hollow points.
250 gr jaxketed flat nose or hollow points,or pre programmed notched cut jaxket [or cast] hollow points, 315 gr jaxketeds for my 44 and 445 super mag, and 350 gr same things.
i hollowpoint my 240 gr rnfp's, and cut the nose to fragment on my 429421's.

with my 223 set i re-shape my cast boolits to a shorter flatter nose with a larger diameter partial bore ride, and more bearing surface in the bbl, so i can push it faster.
i also use it to hollow point these same boolits for better explosiveness on varmints.
it also makes the lead softer through the swaging and sizing .
i am in effect pushing lead that's softer than ww alloy well over 2700 fps by making it fit my rifles better.
i also make jaxketed hollowpoints that weigh over 60 grs but are shorter than a 55 gr bullet so i can shoot them in a slow twist bbl with accuracy.

i also don't suffer from component availability i can always make what i want when i want it.
up the weight,lower it,harder core,bonded,softer core ,initiate expansion,control it.
whatever i need.

[Sasquatch-1]

If you want a cheap start to see if you like the HOBBY check with C & H 4D and see how long it is taking to get their single die set. The last I checked it was running under $90.00.

Another source is Hawk's Precission Bullets. I got their single die set for .44 cal. The single die set ran me $170.00 and included a semi wadcutter, wadcutter and round nose point form punch along with bases to make flat based bullets , which would include jacketed, and one to make a gas check bullet that uses a zinc washer that he sells. The round nose punch CANNOT be used to make an ogive jacket.

Andy at Hawk's gives very good custermer serviceon his products.

Now, from personnel experience I have broken a RC4 link while swaging. The general consensous was that the link was defective from the factory. RCBS replaced it with no questions ask but since then I have obtained a Corbin S press and the difference is amazing.

[Muddydogs]

p.s. Hope I didn't come across harsh, I certainly didn't intend to. It is just a common story of many that are interested in this great hobby but turned off by the cost of the "22 cal" set of dies. Seen it happen a lot in the last 4 years on this sight and frequently going further back on other sights. I got to say though for anyone interested just ask around about the simplicity of the 40 cal one step die and the bullets it makes from scrap 9mm brass.

No you didn't and I hope I didn't come across bashing your dies or anything like that. I have had more then one hobby turn into selling stuff (foam hunting decoys and duck call lanyards) and I understand how hard it is to make a great product and compete with the big boys that make a zillion items and do most of it over seas. Not to say you are over priced or anything like that as I understand that design, development and production of the custom dies you make for a small buyer base takes a lot of time and money. Heck you will probably never see a true profit off this venture if you keep putting money back into research and development. You do have to admit that for the casual shooter which is all but a small group of hard core individuals that for the price one can purchase a lot of bullets.

I am all into this hobby called reloading, I reload metallic and shot shell as well as cast my own slugs, pistol bullets and muzzle loader lead. This is why swaging has caught my attention as its just one more item I can play around with. I knew I was saving all that 9mm brass I picked up while scrounging for 40 and 45 brass for a reason.

I have had an offer to contact a fellow swager here in Utah which I plan to do and get some more info about the process.

Some of my reluctance could be my all or nothing approach to most things I do and I think subconsciously I am afraid that the wife will divorce me or shoot me if I get involved in swaging. She just doesn't understand buying a firearm just so I can reload for it. Wonder what firearms would be a fun challenge to swage bullets for?

[DukeInFlorida]

Not to turn this thread into a political debate, but..............

***IF*** the gov't ever bans the sale of bullets... or, if the SHTF, and the store can't sell or ship you any bullets........... whatcha gonna do?? Become zombie food?

I am going to keep on reloading. I have a way to make cast and jacketed bullets to my hearts content, and will shoot guns until they pry my cold dead hands....... you get the picture.

Boolit casting molds are an investment for the future. Reloading presses, dies, etc, are also an investment. And, in the exact same way, swaging die sets are an investment.

If you shoot 50 rounds a year, just buy ammo at the store.

If you shoot a LOT (I shoot about 30,000 rounds per year) or want to shoot a lot, buy reloading gear, casting molds, and swaging die sets.

[GRUMPA]

Muddy,

The ONLY reasons I got into swagging was:

1) I wanted to have the ability to make something from nothing

2) I wanted to eliminate the middleman

3) I don't want to be dependent on anyone for what I need ( within reason)

4) And WHEN not IF things are hard to come by either by price or other means I can make more.

Cost for me takes a back seat to the issue, it's being able to create what you want that's high on my list of priorities.

Casting has it's appealing points, so does swagging, it just depends on how a person views it.

[Lizard333]

Let Obama try to put a serial number on the back of ANYTHING I shoot. Sorry Duke, it is political.

I do this for the freedom. Plus, how cool is it when show someone a bullet, or boolit, that you made with your own two hands. Not many can say they can. I can!

[Muddydogs]

I have thought about the political side as well and lets just say with casting equipment bullets are not my limiting factor. Powder and primers always seam to be the down fall for me. I do like the idea of swaging and will probably start heading that way. You guys are a hard lot when it comes to questioning cost. Kinda nice to see a internet forum were everyone is on the same page and there isn't a lot of bickering, you guys put up a great unified front. If nothing else I need to take up casting so I can continue to hang out here. Only forum I have been on for a couple days where I have gotten a couple offers for personal help from the local area guys, heck I have been on forums for years and never had offers to help. Truth be told I am usually the one offering to help so I guess this is my kinda place.

When the wife shoots me I am blaming you guys so just be warned. Good thing she is a understanding lady.

[Lizard333]

I'll take the blame. My wife has been blaming me for years. How bad can it be ;)

[Reload3006]

I have invested a considerable sum of money in swaging equipment. I did it because in BOs first year of office I thought I would go hunting and if I didn't reload I would not have because there was no ammo of any kind to buy at least for the guns I had. I was lucky enough to have had a few .308 bullets that i could load up if I had not I would have been sitting home during deer season. That convinced me that I was going to get what I needed to make my own. And I have.

[clodhopper]

All political stuff aside, I'm looking forward to when Brian gets caught up enough to answer my PMs so I can start investing.
I still want to know if his swaging die set can be used in a corbin S press.
And if the jacket reducing die comes with a punch, or do I need to order a punch to go along with it.

[Utah Shooter]

He always seems pretty busy. Check around though. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

[BT Sniper]

Well let's see if I can get the short, quick answer. All my dies work in any decent press that accepts standard 7/8-14 threaded dies and shell holder style base punches.

All my dies come with necessary base punches included in price.

I'll certainly try my best to get everyone's PM's answered as soon as I can.

Thanks

BT

[BulletFactory]

I don't have a .223 (yet), but really don't want to be dependent upon other types of brass either, in an ammo shortage, you're not going to be finding other calibers lying about to make the bullets you need.

I want to make my own .308 bullets though. Preferably out of copper pipe. People will always need copper pipe, and its not likely to be banned any time soon. What equipment will I need to make a flat base .30 with a weight between 135 and 150 grains? I too get a little confused at the Corbin site.

I would love to load for the .40, its on the horizon, but for now, I'll cast for it until I get the .308 set up.

[olafhardt]

The Lord came to me in a dream and told me if I ever ran out of boolits I would die. So I took up reloading.

[Lizard333]

funny, I think I had the same dream......:swagemine:

[GRUMPA]

For posts #23-#24......[smilie=l:

[khamill2000]

I still want to know if his swaging die set can be used in a corbin S press.


Yes it can

[MIBULLETS]

They definately can be used in an S press, but you use them like reloading dies with out the punch holder.

[clodhopper]

But my corbin press has a threaded ram.
I have three corbin presses, bought used with no guidence on operation. Two S type and a silver press.

[Sasquatch-1]

But my corbin press has a threaded ram.
I have three corbin presses, bought used with no guidence on operation. Two S type and a silver press.

You can buy the shell holder adapter from Corbin that threads in just like the swaging dies.. Don't know how much. I was lucky, mine came with one.

[MIBULLETS]

The S press should have come with a reloading adapter that screws into the ram. This adapter is slotted to accept shell holders or swaging punches.

[clodhopper]

Thanks for the responses. I did get a bunch of dies in a package deal, but the dies are all marked odd sizes like .304 .273 .332. Two dies are marked 30cal PP and 45 cal PP. I need to look for the reloading adapter to see if I have one or two.
The guy (now passed away) who had these tools was making axulirary cartridges to fit centerfire rifles for quietly taking small game at close range.
He supplied a dummy shell that held a .22 lr cartridge and lead bullets that set on the .22 bullet, near as I can tell the lead bullets were undersize to allow for some expansion into the rifleing when launched.
The base punches have the profile of diffirent .22 bullets. Roundnose, roundnose HP, truncated cone HP.
I know what the paper patch bullets are all about, but can only see me useing the 30 cal.
Really want to make long, sleek, 22 bullets in the 75 gr range. useing 22 mag and 17 hmr brass for jackets

[DragoonDrake]

I have a quick question. Can you use these 22lr swaged bullets in a AR-15?

[Reload3006]

i have a quick question. Can you use these 22lr swaged bullets in a ar-15?

yes!!!!!!!!

[rasto]

Mudydogs if you want to get into .223 swaging try to contact Danr.
He is producing the complete die set for reasonable price.
My price for the 4pcs set was 300$ 1/2 year ago and so far I am satisfied.
I would never buy it for 800$ as well sry.