Ruger 3 screw flat tops?

[quasi]

I have just purchased sight unseen a Ruger Blackhawk 3 screw flat top .44 mag.It has not arrived yet . Why are these guns so highly written of in firearms literature?

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Rare means they didn’t sell too well. Frankly they were good guns but lacked the kind of strength Bill wanted in his .44 Magnums. The recoil with factory loads and factory grips is very unpleasant in these guns. Boolit casters like the 3 screws now because we can drive a Keith boolit at a healthy velocity, say 1100 fps out of pistol that feels like a sixgun, without the unnecessary weight associated with heavier, stronger guns that are comfortable to shoot with hotter ammo. The Keith boolit doesn’t really benefit from being driven fast that 1100 fps. Ruger re-tooled and quit the old model and made the new model on a larger frame with that transfer bar. The 3 screws became history.

An old gunsmith told me an idiot put 6 beans in the wheel of his 3 screw and put the gun on the dash of his pick up. He took a corner and of course the gun fired. The guy lost or almost lost his leg. Ruger lost the lawsuit and paid big money, mainly because they didn’t have the deep pockets of the other main handgun manufacturers. So Ruger went with the idiot-proof transfer bar. What’s that boolits master saz says them making a better idiot?

Check to see if your model has had the factory conversation to a transfer bar, that will reduce it’s value. Any gun shipped to Ruger gets the conversion even if the customer does not want it. What barrel length did you get? The 7 ½” barrel length fetches lots of money, I’ve seen one at a gunshow for $2,000.00. The 6 ½” is more common and can be had for less denaro.

[Tracy]

Rare means they didn’t sell too well. Frankly they were good guns but lacked the kind of strength Bill wanted in his .44 Magnums. The recoil with factory loads and factory grips is very unpleasant in these guns. Boolit casters like the 3 screws now because we can drive a Keith boolit at a healthy velocity, say 1100 fps out of pistol that feels like a sixgun, without the unnecessary weight associated with heavier, stronger guns that are comfortable to shoot with hotter ammo. The Keith boolit doesn’t really benefit from being driven fast that 1100 fps. Ruger re-tooled and quit the old model and made the new model on a larger frame with that transfer bar. The 3 screws became history.

Actually Ruger only made a few .44s on the smaller frame. He gave one to Elmer Keith, who told him it wouldn't stand full .44 Mag pressures. The second or third one blew up, and Ruger discontinued it immediately and started making a large frame. The Flat-Tops that are out there, as well as the three-screw Super Blackhawks, have the same size frame as the later New Model Blackhawks. After the first few .44 Magnums in 1956, two frame sizes of the Blackhawk were produced: the .357 Magnum and .30 Carbine models were on the original Colt-sized frame, and all big bores (.41 and .44 Magnums and, in the last year of the three-screw, the .45 Colt) were on the large frame. When the New Model came out, Ruger only made it on the large frame, and dropped the smaller frame. So, not to worry: that flat-top .44 is the same size and strength as a New Model.

[Piedmont]

The three screw .44 mag has a cylinder diameter just as large as a Super Blackhawk which means it is just as strong. Might recoil a bit more since it is lighter, but it is just as strong.

[44man]

The flat top was my first .44 back in 1956. It was a great and very accurate gun. Factory loads back then were very HOT.
Just load five without the transfer bar.
Ruger will alter the gun free and also return the original parts so you do not lose value. You can go back and forth. No need because the Ruger transfer bar was the greatest single advance ever for the single action.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Currently I own a 3 screw Super Blackhawk which I had a new carbon steel Ruger Old Army grip frame fitted. This pistol is superior to any of the 3 Smith and Wesson .44 mags I’ve owned, sold, and do not regret having sold. I also favor this SBH over the New Model SBH which I purchased and sold years ago.
The transfer bar is a fine addition to a single action revolver for people who have cars with extension cords and curb proximity warning devices. My Ruger gets shot but not nearly as much as my Colts which get far more range time. The counter-sunk chambers drive me nuts and the chambers are so tight I have to seat the RCBS Keith boolit over the driving band just to get the cartridges to chamber.
It is my understanding that when Ruger fits a transfer bar to a 3 screw they internally mill the receiver which reduces its resale value.

I prefer the trouble free Colt and can drive the Keith boolit nearly as fast with the Colt as I can with the Ruger. The Ruger is only superior on the range days when I fire a relatively high round count at 150 yard and beyond targets. In that arena, the Ruger is superior, but I have never carried my Ruger on daily bases around town or when packing a rifle.

[Char-Gar]

The quality of Ruger sixguns were high in the early days. After a period of time model changes and manufacturing methods reduced the quality in some folks minds. The 3 screw Rugers used the same basic action as the Colt SAA, but with coil springs.

The 3 screw FT 44 magnum was introduced almost the same time as the Smith and Wesson 44 Magnum. Story goes that some folks bought scrap brass from Remington and found a few of the then experimental 44 magnum cases in the lot. These ended up in Bill Ruger's hands and from them, he developed the pistol in question and hit the ground running with his 44 Magnum sixguns.

If one can stand the new lockwork and the transfer bar safety, the currently produced Flat Tops Ruger SA and fully equal in quality to the older sixguns. I have on of the early 3 screw Super Blackhaws and it is a dandy. Elmer Keith was quite taken with them and called them "Ruger Dragoons", for some superficial resemblences to the old Colt Dragoon revolvers.

[DeadWoodDan]

also manf. date of 1964. First 6 banger :Fire: so i had a little learning curve to get through, but not that bad. Not a safe queen, BUT i had looked at less closer to home with no luck. You will enjoy, just educate yourself and NEVER keep them loaded; always keep an empty chamber. the first week i had to discover myself what all the gossip was about. It will go bang very easily.

DWD

[contender1]

Welcome to the wonderful world of serious OM Rugers.
I have been a serious collector of Ruger SA's for many years. Some of the above info isn't quite right. Let me see if I can help a little. (I own several OM Flattops, both in 357 & in 44 mag.)
The reason the old Flattops are so highly regarded is they have become harder & harder to find at reasonable prices. That, and the fact that they are quite pleasant to shoot. The OM action is a simple & smooth feeling action from the factory.
The original Flattops were first introduced in 1955 by Ruger in 357 mag. Then in 1956 they came out with the 44 mag. Yes, some brass somehow found it's way to Bill and he quickly got into production the 44 mag version of the Blackhawk.
Well, the grip design, coupled with the sharp recoil of the 44 mag caused some to complain a bit. So, in 1959, they introduced the Super Blackhawk design. Very notable in the squared off gripframe. They also added the first type of mainframe with the protective "ears" for the rear sight assy.
To cut costs & simplify the manufacturing process, Ruger discontinued the Flattop mainframe in 1963. So, the 44 mag Flattop was made from 1956 until 1963. They were offered in 6-1/2" barrels, (the most common) 7-1/2" & 10" barrels.
To collectors, these earlier guns are a bit more desirable due to the configuration of the model. Smaller gripframe, flat topstrap, fluted cylinder to name the main features.
When the Flattops were discontinued, the only 44 mag was the Super Blackhawk. In the OM it only came in 7-1/2" barrels. (Except for a VERY few experimental guns.)
The next major change came about in 1973 with the introduction of the New Model, which has the safety transfer bar. It allows the safe carry of 6 rounds in the cylinder. With that introduction, Ruger discontinued all OM models. Old Models are easily noticed by the 3 screws in the side of the mainframe, whereas the NM's have 2 pins. But to those of us who prefer the OM's the total action design change made the NM's feel a bit "rougher." Nowhere as smooth & slick handling. Yes, they were safer, but not as sweet to shoot.
So, ALL OM Ruger SA's are written about & revered due to how good they feel when shooting. Simpler actions, easier to slick up, and as long as you are smart enough to "load one, skip one, load four, cock fully & carefully lower the hammer" you will enjoy the best feeling in a SA ever.

The next innovation was the offering of the "upgrade" of the OM's to the safety transfer bar system. This was done a few years after the NM's came out. Bill felt as if too many folks were not learning how to properly carry & use a SA gun. The design of the upgrade was NOT a result of a lawsuit.
HOWEVER, after Ruger designed the upgrade, a person was injured, and he sued Ruger. It is the ONLY lawsuit Sturm, Ruger & Co ever lost. The judge is quoted as saying; "Ruger knew they had a defective product BECAUSE they designed the upgrade." (This info comes directly from the Stockholders report at that time.) It was AFTER the loss of that lawsuit, that Ruger started putting that stupid "warning" rollmark on their guns. So, thank the stupid gun owner who didn't know how to properly load & carry a SA, coupled with a stupid judge and the lawyers who allowed this to proceed for the "billboard" on Ruger firearms.

Now to kill another rumor.
Ruger does NOT alter the mainframe in any way when a gun is returned for the transfer bar upgrade. And unless the original parts are unservicable, Ruger will return the OM parts. They WILL mark the mainframe on the bottom, which is hidden when the gun is assembled, with a circled "R". That way, if somebody else does something stupid, and tries to sue Ruger. They will present the HUGE ad campaign where they offer the upgrade for FREE. Plus, if a gun has been upgraded, and then returned to it's original state, (which is easily done,) and then something happens, they can PROVE they are not liable.
To collectors, there is NO value lost if a gun has been upgraded, UNLESS the original parts are not with the gun. The few collectors who have sent an OM gun back to Ruger for any reason will remove the OM parts in advance knowing that Ruger will automatically install the transfer bar parts. That way they make sure they get to keep the OM parts.

And a side note. The OM 45 Colts were made for 3 years, 1971, 1972, & into 1973. Very desirable guns to those of us who like OM Rugers. I do own a few,,,! :D

So, when you get the OM Flattop, enjoy it, keep the loads safe by following the books, and you will smile when you first cock it. Just remember, to keep it from getting the dreaded "turn line" around the cylinder, when you go to half-cock for loading or checking it, ALWAYS go to full cock before lowering the hammer.

If you want to learn a lot more about Rugers, check out; www.rugerforum.com
(I'm "contender" over there.)

[44man]

Contender1, great info and a perfect explanation.
I never had much money and parted with the flat top to buy other and have been sorry ever since.
Then I started IHMSA and bought a 10" SBH. Too much creep and a hard trigger pull but an easy fix. I got carried away going to a 1-1/2# trigger that pushes my finger forward. Not good with the transfer bar that can drop so I made a longer transfer bar out of tool steel, hardened and heat treated it. 63,000 rounds later, it still feels the same and I won Ohio state with 79 out of 80, my fault when I missed the last ram. I would not pass inspection at the nationals because of forward trigger push. But it never fails in any way and has killed a ton of deer.
Now I love the BFR's, an oversize Ruger, castings made by Pine Tree but Badger barrels used and put together with more precision. I have made longer transfer bars for a few so I can get triggers super, down to 19 oz.
I will forever feel Ruger made the bars too short.
The OM could not be worked the same to make a better trigger. Metal must NEVER be removed from the hammer. I used to soft solder brass shim stock to the hammer to rid them of creep. If you remove any metal from a Colt type action, the trigger can drop into the safety or half cock notch.
You can make a NM with a better trigger.
Your eyes would get very large when you squeeze one of my triggers!

[Silver Jack Hammer]

contender1, what a wealth of info, thanks so much! Is it correct that my SBH 3 screw has the same frame dimensions as a flat top except an added set of ears on the side of the rear sight? That my 3 screw SBH is the same as a flat top except for a higher gloss finish and a non-fluted cylinder? This would be news to me.

I have a pair of 3 screw BH’s in .357 non flattop in .357. I can’t imagine Bill Ruger selling a .44 Mag to the general population on that frame, I think it’s too tiny. A friend of mine converted one to .44 Special, it’s a nice gun but he spent lots of money and waited a long time. He favors it over his Colt’s but I favor my Colt’s more.

[MtGun44]

IME, the smaller grip doesn't make the recoil as comfortable for heavy loads. The 'Dragoon' SBH grip seems
to work a lot better for me, I own both kinds.

Bill

[pietro]

BTW - Just because the top of the frame of a .44 Mag is flat, doesn't necessarily mean it's a "Flat Top".

A LOT of folks don't really know the real thing, and presume an OM/3-screw Blackhawk or Super Blackhawk is a Flat Top just because the top of the frame in front of the rear sight's protective ears is dead flat.

Real Flat Tops have their rear sight body's inletted flush with the surface of the top of the frame,

http://www.neaca.com/images/Ruger%20OM%2044%20Flat%20Top%206%20.JPG

and NO protective integral "ears" on both sides of the sight body.

http://www.gunblast.com/images/Hamm_SuperBlackhawk/Thumbs/A53DSC00.jpg


.

[Char-Gar]

IME, the smaller grip doesn't make the recoil as comfortable for heavy loads. The 'Dragoon' SBH grip seems
to work a lot better for me, I own both kinds.

Bill

Count me among the folks who prefer the SBH "Dragoon" grips over the standard BH grips as well. I am using a new model SBH grip frame as a paper weight on my desk, waiting for the right project to come along.

[Wolfer]

Count me among the folks who prefer the SBH "Dragoon" grips over the standard BH grips as well. I am using a new model SBH grip frame as a paper weight on my desk, waiting for the right project to come along.

I agree. I have the Lipseys 44 spl and mostly shoot Skeeters load and its fine.
Six shots with Elmer's load and my fingers are getting sore.

[kenyerian]

I've had several of the old 3 screw rugers over the years and have enjoyed everyone of them.
Still have my single six 22 that I bought in 1968. my grandson and I put several rounds through it last night.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I bought a Ruger 44 mag flat top from a friend in 1983. He had taken it in leau of a 200 dollar debt. It had a small frame with Colt size grips. It was equiped with steel Micro rear sight. It was in the 7xxx serial number range. I really liked it and only sold it because we needed collage tuition funds. I also owned a current model 44 mag of the dragoon style. A coworker wanted it so much he offered me a three screw 357 and 50 bucks to get it. I couldn't make that trade fast enough. I still have that one. I also have a Colt single action made in the early '30s. I measured the depth of the Colt frame compared to the Ruger 357 and was surprised that the Colt is slightly deeper. I measured them where the barrel joins the frame. In the late '50s I saw a small frame Ruger 44 mag in a gun shop that was missing the top half of the cylinder and the top strap was folded over the barrel. Kieth pegged that one right. I own three Ruger pistols and two of his rifles. I hope Bill Ruger has a special place in Heaven. He was a great man and a great American.

[newrugersafan]

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d162/stobbem053/DSC01995.jpg

As contender stated the 357 Flat Top has a smaller cylinder frame than the 44 Flat Top. The grip frame is the same on both pre 1963 Flat Tops. The Super Black Hawk shares the same frame size as the early 44 Flat Top, the "improvements" to the Super Black Hawk are the ears around the rear sight, grip frame and non fluted cylinder.

[jblee10]

contender1, great read! 44man, I've remove material from colt style hammers. Just make sure the full cock notch is "higher" than the half cock notch. I've seen hammers with lots of room to play with. In my eye the best trigger in all guns is the single action colt style with good hard surfaces and good angles. My Great Western Arms has a great trigger with lots of engagement.

[contender1]

Glad to add a little Ruger info & history.
To answer Silver Jack Hammer's questions about mainframe sizes & the differences. In general, yes, the mainframes of both guns are the same in the 44 mags. The protected rear sights, and the non-fluted cylinders are the give-aways, as is the dragoon gripframe. However, over the years, and having handled & owned MANY Rugers, I have occasionally measured the frames to see if there were any differences. I have seen Flattops be a bit bigger than a Super I was comparing it to, as well as seeing a Super be a bit bigger than a Flattop, in SOME areas. I think that those differences come from the final casting & polishing done to the frames.
Just for the heck of it, I went to my safe & pulled out an OM Super I've owned for at least 25-30 years, and a new to me Flattop 44 in 10". (BKH-40)As it turned out both of them have the same length cylinders. The topstrap of the Flattop is .228 thick at the front, next to the barrel, while the Super mics at .252. It was the only dimension that was different between the two guns.

I also have several 357 cal Rugers. Some are Flattops, & some are protected ears OM's. In fact, just this week I added a kinda hard to find 357/9mm OM convertable to my stable. It's one of the non-prefix earliest convertables. Yes, those frames are smaller than the 44 mags.

And as stated above, it's a common mistake among folks who are not quite up to speed on Rugers to think they have the "rarer" Flattops when they actually have a protected rear sight OM. It's especially common for someone to think they have a flattop Single-Six when all they have is a non-adjustable Single-Six. (As opposed to the Super Single-Six.)

I do display shows with the Ruger Collectors Association. My display is used often as it's fun. It's titled; "Ruger Handgun Collecting Terminology 101." I highlight many of the common different terms we collectors use to distinguish the differences in Ruger handguns. I don't win much within the collectors bunch, but I've won "Best Educational Display" a couple of times from the gun show promoter. I'm always busy talking to folks about their guns!

BTW; nice bunch of Flattops there newrugersafan!

[jmjmaintenance]

New to the forum!
I have a serial# starting with 19*** 357 black hawk type 2 I believe its 4 5/8 barrel great condition. How do I tell if its been factory updated and whats it worth?

[44man]

It is hard to tell value. Ruger has made so many changes and made so many collectable guns over the years it can drive a guy nuts.
Updated will have a transfer bar.
The best thing about early Rugers was the Micro sight. Ears, no ears, the worst thing they did was to use a cheaper sight. Guns have all been good.
Aluminum grip frames were finally made from steel but for a collector, original is worth more.
Ruger will stop production and years later bring them back. The Bearcat and the Hunter. Then the flat top.

[454PB]

I've posted this pic before, it's a 10" Flat top that was factory converted to the transfer bar system, but I have all the parts that were replaced. It has a strange feel to those of us used to the heavier Rugers like me. I started my love for Rugers with a SBH back in 1973.

This gun was used in a homocide and was held as evidence for about three years before it was returned to the guy I bought it from.

https://i.imgur.com/QKnLDAC.jpg

[Martin 1940 D28]

I bought a three screw Ruger 44 magnum Blackhawk in 1963, fired it three times then traded it off. Today I'm looking for one in my waning years, much smarter and casting my own and reloading with 7.5 grains of Unique, knuckles are still in good shape. Jay

[fivefang]

Contender 1, good reading, my 6.5"3 screw#11114, IT SAW A STEADY DIET OF 215 GR. Thompson gc.OVER 27.5 GR 2400 YES I DID CRACK THE CYL BUT NOT WITH LOAD MENTIONED, NOW I HAVE A 7.5" 3SCREW FT. FOND MEMORIES, fIVEFANG

[quasi]

gee I forgot all about this thread. I can't believe it is 5 years old. It is a 7 1/2" barrel, I will see if I have a picture to post.

[keyhole]

just to add my thoughts to this thread...
I am a shooter, not a collector, of the OM Rugers. After having owned and shot one each in .357, .41 Mag, and .30 carbine, I looked for a .44 Mag 3-screw. A few years ago I picked up a .44 Mag with serial no. 7xxx, which I understand means it was made in 1958. Not to offend anyone with differing taste, but to me the unfluted cylinder and square back trigger guard don't look quite right. To my eyes, the original FT version, with fluted cylinder and round trigger guard, has the right look. I realize this is all a matter of taste and respect anyone who feels differently. I do not know the history of my gun, but it has the crispest trigger pull of any single action I have ever fired. Maybe it was worked on by someone- I don't know. I have fairly large hands and curl my little finger under the trigger guard, yet find it very comfortable to shoot, including max loads of H110 and Lyman 429244 gas check.

[contender1]

An old thread to be sure,,, but still has good thoughts.

The old Ruger Flattops are desirable to many. Some of us,, as collectors,,, chase the old ones in excellent shape & with the boxes & such. When we find used,, but good condition ones,,, we buy them to shoot,,, or if in a rarer variation, (such as the 7-1/2" & 10" 44 mags,) we get them until we can upgrade our collections with better specimens. And the true shooters,,, we enjoy as well.
To many, the "improved" 44 mag,, with the Dragoon g/f, & square backed trigger guard,,, wasn't an improvement. But,,, overall, to others,, it was.
The Ruger FT 44 mag was rushed into the market,,, built on the same frame size as the 357. Sadly,, many have suffered failures to where they become paperweights. A steady diet of heavy loads, over time,, caused issues for some. The Super Blackhawk addressed some of the strength concerns,,, as well as allowed for the changes that handgunners of that era convinced old Bill were needed to make the gun better.
Some like them, some cuss them.
I have found,, that for shooter guns,, a proper set of grips that fit each shooters hands to be the best way to compromise the handling issues some experience. Knuckle busting,,, not fun but it doesn't happen to everyone.
With modern ammo, newer powders,, and worst of all,,, inexperienced reloaders many fine old guns are damaged or destroyed. I'm amazed at the number of folks who get on the internet looking for load data,,, WITHOUT going to the companies who print the manuals,,, do the testing,,, and make sure things are safe for the shooter & the guns. To me,,, one of the most important things on my loading bench are my manuals.

With proper, safe loads,,, even the old workhorses, such as the FT's are FINE shooters.

I own an example of all of the OM 3 screw SA revolvers. (With exceptions for the many sub-variations out there,) From the 22's, on to the 45's. I have shooters & collectors. I also own many NM SA Rugers,, and in my hands,, the OM actions are much nicer than the NM ones, as issued.
But both can be super sweet if properly tuned.

[keyhole]

Mine is definitely in the "shooter" category. I believe it is unaltered but it has noticeable holster wear and scratches here and there. It is fed almost exclusively a diet of 429421 and 9.0 gr Unique. It will survive me and then get passed on to someone who appreciates these old single actions.

[keyhole]

As stated, it is definitely a shooter, not a collector piece. The grips do have nice figure to them. But it shows nearly 60 years of handling and holster carry. The old girl still shoots just fine if I do my part.
208926

Here are a couple of cherry-picked targets. One on the left is 25 rds at 55' using 429421 and 9.0 gr Unique. Right hand target is 29 rds of 429244 g/c with 22.3 gr H110. Both targets were fired offhand using 2 hands.
208927 208928

[wildcatter]

I thought I would add a little copy paste to go with contender1 excellent history, he does know his Ruger's, but I did not read every post in this thread, just wonder if there was any mention of the New Model 44 special, Flat Top frame size?

Here is a copy & Paste for reference on the smaller frame dimensions of the 357 size frame if anyone would be interested.
208931

[kidmma]

I recently bought an OMSBH. Made about 1971. worn a bit, but has a great trigger. It got a Magnaport job along the way.
It was just under $400.