Black powder bullet?

[Beagle333]

I was digging in a box today and came across a tiny glass jar with a bullet in it. The jar has "1866" written in small letters on the label in ink. This bullet is obviously a rimfire, and measures 0.406 by my caliper. Somebody gave it to me many years ago and I just unearthed it today while looking for a sizing die that I had misplaced. Wouldn't it be a black powder bullet if it actually was from 1866? I think it would be neat. :mrgreen: It couldn't hold more than 10-15 grains of powder in there though? I have no clue what the headstamp (the letter "M") means. There is not any other writing on the jar.
Here is a pic. (Link to more pics is below)
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/Bullet/DSC03259.jpg

And here is a link to more pics of the same bullet.
http://s613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/Bullet/

[wgr]

41 cal. rim fire

[Boerrancher]

41 cal. rim fire

Wasn't that an old Spencer round?

Best wishes,

Joe

[nicholst55]

IIRC, the old Remington Derringers were chambered for this cartridge. Skeeter Skelton wrote about their lack of penetration a couple of times. Seems like they were a favorite backup gun among lawmen at one time. He wrote about saving his money to buy one, and scrounging to find ammo. He test-fired the gun at a phone pole, and was rewarded by the sight of the bullet protruding from the wood.

[Beagle333]

I checked my copy of Charles R. Suydam's book, "The American Cartridge: An illustrated study of the rim fire cartridge in the United States". On page 90 appear photos of 4 cartridges nearly identical to yours identified as a ".41 Derringer" round (aka ".41 Short Rimfire"). It was identied as having a: .405-.407" bullet dia, a .460-.468" rim dia, a case length of .453-.493", a .870-.924" cartridge overall length, case mouth dia of .405-.406", head dia of .405-.406". Range of measurements reflect products from different manufacturers and different shaped bullets giving different overall length. If these measurements are close...then .41 Derringer/.41 Short Rimfire should be correct. Original loadings ranged from 10 to 13 grains of blackpowder and typically a bullet of 130 grains. Head stamp is not referenced in Suydam's book.
A different reference: "The Cartridge Guide" by Ian V. Hogg, identifies several "M" head stamps, the most likely being one by a gunsmith: P.J. Medicus of NY, NY. Medicus only used this headstamp on .41 Short Rimfire/.41 Derringer. 2 other European manufacturers used "M" as well. Medicus contracted with Remington-UMC to make cases. Should be of reasonable collector value.

Not as great as if it had been from 1866, but still pretty neat. 8-)