Casting balls

[joeb33050]

I'm trying to cast pure? lead balls .490" diameter in a Lee 2 cavity mold. I've got the lead over 800 degrees, and am havinfg a devil of a time getting the balls to be "good". There are wrinkles and imperfections in many, from horrible to slightly bad. I've cast with the mold smoked with a match, will try a candle.
1. Do slight imperfections matter at 50 yards?
2. Any hints about how to cast good balls?
I've never had much luck casting pure lead bullets, tried again the other day with no luck.
Thanks;
joe brennan

[Ricochet]

All right, I guess I'll skip the jokes about fiberglass vs. plaster casts.

You've got to get that mould way hotter. Stick it in the molten lead for a while before you start. It needs to be hot enough to start smoking the lube off the blocks.

And you've got to get all the oil the mould came coated with OFF the inner surface of the cavities. It'll burn off after you've cast 100 or so, but you can save time by cleaning it up before starting.

[Onlymenotu]

Having perfect balls (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=13115)[smilie=1: :roll:

[mooman76]

Small imperfections won't matter at 50 y.

[versifier]

DON'T SMOKE THE MOULD WITH A CANDLE!!!!!! It will leave a residue that will make things impossible and is a real bitch to clean out. Don't ask. [smilie=1: Use a Bic (butane) lighter. Like Riccochet said, your mould temperture is too low. Stick the bottom of the closed mould into the molten lead for 1-2 minutes before you start casting. Yes, the metal needs to be good and hot, too, but aluminum moulds can lose heat quickly - they don't hold it anywhere near as well as steel ones do. A few small wrinkles are no big deal, but if they start looking like corduroy then they won't fly as well. A deer wouldn't know the difference, but you could probably measure it.

[RugerFan]

Those small-ish Lee 2 cavity aluminum blocks shed heat pretty fast, so a quick casting tempo is in order as well.

I have a Lyman steel .490 RB mold you could borrow if you want to try something different.

[Bent Ramrod]

I struggled with dimpled and creased castings out of Lee ball moulds for a long time. The .32 size was particularly aggravating. Then one day instead of holding the dipper and mould horizontal, turning vertical, etc., etc., I held the mould vertical and poured out of the dipper sideways like it was a gravy ladle, or a Lee ladle. The balls filled out perfectly.

I have no idea why this works. All I can guess is that the inner spherical cavity holds air better than the cylindroconical cavity of a regular bullet and the swirl of lead from this sideways method of casting drives the air out of the mould better. It doesn't work well with cylindrical bullets, but it's great with round balls.

[joeb33050]

I've got all the everything off the mold, have cast ~400 balls, have ~200 sort-of-good kept.
I put the mold in the lead first, per Lee instructions.
I think the mold is hot, the metal is way over 800 degrees and I cast fast.
I'll try the butane lighter, not the candle.
Bent Ramrod, I'll try that technique next time.
Ruger Fan-Thanks, does the Lyman mold make better balls easier? I may take you up on your offer later.
Thanks to all, this is just what I needed to give me things to try next time.
joe brennan

[RugerFan]

I've got all the everything off the mold, have cast ~400 balls, have ~200 sort-of-good kept.
I put the mold in the lead first, per Lee instructions.
I think the mold is hot, the metal is way over 800 degrees and I cast fast.
I'll try the butane lighter, not the candle.
Bent Ramrod, I'll try that technique next time.
Ruger Fan-Thanks, does the Lyman mold make better balls easier? I may take you up on your offer later.
Thanks to all, this is just what I needed to give me things to try next time.
joe brennan

Easier? Since I had no problem with the Lee mold (using a Lee bottom pour pot), I can't say it was easier. Both worked well for me. Certainly the steel Lyman mold held the heat better though.

[Ricochet]

I think the mold is hot, the metal is way over 800 degrees and I cast fast.
It takes a LOT of fast casting to heat up Lee blocks. You might have 60-80 wrinkled balls to throw away. Preheat those blocks. Dip 'em in the lead. It's the Lee way.

[opcon4]

hell my balls stay wrinkled...oh wrong balls

[Ricochet]

Have you tried dipping them in the lead pot?

[homefront]

About two weeks ago I started casting for my .54 T/C. I bought a new .530 Lee ball mould (single cavity) and cleaned the heck out of it with dish detergent/hot water, followed by an alcohol scrub (not me, the mould!). I then gave it two coats of Rapine bullet mould prep, and after lunch started casting.
I preheated the mould by resting its' bottom in the lead (x-ray room wall lead, 700 degrees as per Lyman casting thermometer) for about a minute, and from that point every ball came out shiny and round. I dropped them into a bucket of water, working steadily, but not rushing.
I'm a casting novice, but I have to wonder if you have some zinc in your mix?

[Guido4198]

What's your experience/rationale for water dropping muzzleloader balls...???
I've always wanted mine dead soft.
Have you ( or anyone) done a side-by-side range comparison..??

[madcaster]

Just drop muzzleloader balls and bullets into a cardboard box or onto an old cotton towel!
Use dead soft lead,the palm of your hand will love you for it when it comes time to seat your balls!

[joeb33050]

I got a butane grill lighter with the long neck, per VERSIFIER, and easily smoked the mold. Yesterday I cast using BENT RAMROD's technique of pouring the lead in the mold with the mold upright-held the mold on top of the pot rim and poured the lead in the holes.
Got mostly perfect shiny balls, at 840 degrees with ?pure? lead.
Thanks to all, this problem is sol ved!
(I was going to try the solder next, Maven, but didn't need it.)
joe brennan

[Maven]

joeb, Glad you're getting good results without having to add solder! Funny thing about casting Pb (ostensibly pure) RB's is how hot the molten metal must be to get good castings. You may find that after a dozen or so perfect RB's that you can lower the temp. to a more reasonable 800 deg.

[50 Caliber]

I mold 495's with a lee mold and had the same problem until got a hot plate to heat the mold on while waiting for the pot to heat up, I use the pots on high all the time and dont get frosted or wrinkled any more.

[BAGTIC]

I have cast round balls in a lot of LEE moulds from size .312 upwards and never had any problems but I use a bottom pour pot.

[hunter64]

I had the same problem until I turned the heat up and let the mold sit on top of the lead for at least 2 minutes before starting to cast. I put a pie plate under the mold and when I pour I let the lead fill the mold and then keep pouring for about 1/2 sec or so. I keep the pot full all the time to make sure that the speed of the lead coming out is quick and doesn't vary much. It usually takes one or two casts and then away we go with good balls for the next 30 or so and then I add more lead and the sprue run off back to the pot, keep the mold in the lead and away we go again. You can have 100 balls poured in a short amount of time.

[piwo]

I don't even fill my mould up with the pure plumbers lead till it hits 900 F. I cast between 900 aned 975F and it's the range I get EXCELLENT results. I'm using lead pipes my plumber cousin provides for me, and anything at lower temps just don't cut it for me. I know others may not agree... but if you have a lead thermometer, try some in the range of 900-975. ALSO, heat that mould up and leave a lavish amount of material on top of the sprue cutter....... If it hardens in les then 4-5 seconds, the mould probably ain't hot enough.. I'm no pro here, but these are my experiences casting large round ball, and since I adopted this routine, my results are MORE then satisfying........

[44man]

Dropping pure lead in cold water will not harden them and it makes casting faster and easier because you don't have to fool with space on towels. Works great when space is small.

[Rattus58]

Dropping pure lead in cold water will not harden them and it makes casting faster and easier because you don't have to fool with space on towels. Works great when space is small.

Are you sure about that?

I'm of the distinct impression that dropping bullets into water hardens them significantly... in fact

Treatment Brinell Hardness
Air cooled normally 16
Quenched directly from mold 28
Heat treated and quenched 36

this is from 92% lead, but I cannot see that the principle would not be the same even with pure lead.

Aloha... :cool:

[MT Gianni]

It takes arsenic to quench an alloy. With pure leaad you get wet, pure lead. gianni

[Rattus58]

Why does it take arsenic to quench an alloy? I thought it took water to quench an alloy?

Why cannot pure lead be hardened with cold water as an alloy can?

Aloha... :cool:

[MT Gianni]

It has something to do with the arsenic changing as it is rapidly cooled. It has to be alloyed pure lead will not harden. I don't know the science of why, just the reality. Gianni

[Buckshot]

Why does it take arsenic to quench an alloy? I thought it took water to quench an alloy?

Why cannot pure lead be hardened with cold water as an alloy can?

Aloha... :cool:


..........Hardening has to do with capturing (freezing) the crystaline grain structure at a critical heat via sudden cooling to cause hardening. Pure leads' structure doesn't alter due to heat so as to allow it to harden when suddenly quenched.

Similarly, steel requires carbon to harden. You can heat low carbon steel like 1018 or 1020 to any temp from room temp to melting, and upon quenching it will be no harder then when you started. However, if you were to pack such a piece of steel into bone meal, or charcoal powder and then heat it to it's critical temp it will surface or caseharden. The hard skin will only be as deep as the carbon has been absorbed. Therefore it will still be soft inside. To 'Through harden' steel requires a high carbon steel.

..............Buckshot

[Rattus58]

Interesting.... makes pure lead more and more interesting...

Thank you for the explanation.

Aloha.. Tom

[RBak]

Soooo much to learn, so little time!

I was also under the impression that water dropping (quencing) lead round ball made them somewhat harder, and the reason I could never see any difference on the SAECO was the fact I was just not smart enough to get a "good" reading!


Jeeez, The things we learn here!

Russ...

[Underclocked]

But my lead is like Ivory soap. ;)