Lee "soup can" test in 30-06

[newton]

Well I finally got around to shooting some of my C309-113-F boolits this weekend. I cast them a while back specifically to shoot in my 30-06. Its an old Stevens(Savage) 110. 20" barrel I believe. Its an old gun, has quite a bit of pits and even some damage to the crown, but I got a good deal and the gun shoots good enough for me.

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So I loaded up some with 1.6cc scoop of Herco underneath.

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The first 10 or so were not too bad. It took me another 10 to get the sights adjusted as it was shooting about 4" lower than the j ammo I had used before.

I did not adjust windage, just elevation. I plan on using a 170 grain cast latter this year for hunting so I know I'll have to adjust it again anyways. But for the most part I am going to use it for small game and such. Even though, I'll have to say, it hits with some authority.

I have little thick bottles that some chemicals come in at work. I pulled some out of the trash and filled them with water. They are about liter sized, and are thicker plastic than soda bottles. One of these little dudes after hitting them and literally exploding the bottle, then proceeds on to leave a very nice expanded hole in the plywood behind the target. Which is interesting considering the alloy is water dropped ww. But, according to the manual, they are supposed to be flying around 1850 fps.

At first I was just using a double tumble of LLA. But after the first 10 rounds I did not notice a lube star and the accuracy was not horrible, but not what I thought it could do. So I smeared some of my homemade lube(beeswax, petroleum jelly, palm wax, and a tad of paraffin) and put them through the sizer again.

Still the groups were not the best, probably 2.5" at 50yards, and well over 3" at 100yards. There was also no lube star again. This is after 20 rounds. But then my mind starts to think. First, the pits and the crown could throw the groups like that. But beyond that I remembered that I had not completely culled out some boolits I had made that had gas checks seated bad on them. I kept them for plinking rounds.

So I went back to the bench and culled 5 boolits with good bases and loaded them up. Went back out to my 100 yard and shot this group.

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The top is the last group at 100, the bottom was the first(with un-sorted boolits) group at 100. So the bases were what was giving me fits. I am estimating about 1.75" on the top group. Plenty accurate enough for me. There are only four holes because I used the last one to pop another bottle of water.

So there is my test with these suckers. I have to wonder if it would be even better if I actually weighed my charges, and had a barrel and crown that were in better shape. I bet I could get 1" groups then. But this is a dandy to shoot. It has a little push back, but nothing that gives you a flinch. I am impressed. Thought I would share. I am going to do more playing around with it, but I am tickled with the results as they are.

[HangFireW8]

Yes, straight bases are important... its a lesson I keep learning. :)

Now when I gas-check boolits, I sit them all upright in rows on my workbench. If one in the group looks crooked I rotate it, examine the base, etc.

If I'm having a lot of problems I'll start gas checking separately from sizing, using the gas check adapter. Also removing part line flash on the base with a fingernail can help. Avoiding making it is even better!

[newton]

Yes, straight bases are important... its a lesson I keep learning. :)

Now when I gas-check boolits, I sit them all upright in rows on my workbench. If one in the group looks crooked I rotate it, examine the base, etc.

If I'm having a lot of problems I'll start gas checking separately from sizing, using the gas check adapter. Also removing part line flash on the base with a fingernail can help. Avoiding making it is even better!

I have a small square I use to look at the bases. I put them on the flat part and then rotate it against the straight edge. You can tell real easy which ones do not have straight bases.

All in all though, the group is alright at 50 yards with the crooked bases. So they are not a complete waste. I was having some real issues with my sizing die set up which is what lent to the bases being crooked. I have that resolved and now am producing some good quality gas checked boolits.

[trixter]

Could some one redefine 'soup can'. New to me expression.

[Maven]

So named (by Buckshot?) because it looks like a can of soup. Think Campbell's, for example.

[newton]

So named (by Buckshot?) because it looks like a can of soup. Think Campbell's, for example.

Thats what I have heard. The name has stuck because you can just about find more info by googling it than by the correct, "C309-113-F" which is what its designated.

I bet it would flat blow up a can of soup if you shot one with it...

[JohnFM]

I think a wad cutter looks more like a can of soup. :)
I got one of those molds too.

[Marlin Junky]

Size .311" and try seating them out more (if possible) while using the same powder charge.

MJ

[newton]

Size .311" and try seating them out more (if possible) while using the same powder charge.

MJ

I'm not sure I could size them any larger. I will check next time I cast some, but I am not sure they drop that large. Then there is the issue with gas checks.

I can seat them out farther though. I didn't know where to so I set them at the top of the upper lube grove.

I'll give it a shot. I'm not above experimenting. I sure do like the feel of these little things. I don't have the data with me, but I do know I am at the lower end of the scale with these things. There is a lot of room to go up, I'm just not sure if it's needed. At the moment this is a nice 100-150 yard gun now.

[mpmarty]

I have better luck by leaving off the gas checks. Removes one more variable.

[35remington]

I have had best luck with the Soup Can with fast powders by using approximately 9 grains of Red Dot, 700X, W 231, etc. for about 1550 fps from my 30-06.

This groups considerably better than the higher pressure loads going faster using the same powders. I can do around half to five eighths inch at fifty yards pretty consistently. Best luck is when cast of linotype, or cast of WW's and quenched. Such makes an excellent small game load that ruins little meat, but if cast of soft aircooled wheelweights the bullets expand some on impact at about 75 yards or less, a reason to prefer the harder bullet.

I have settled on 9 grains W231 for my standard load with this bullet, and when a 150 jacketed at around 2950 fps hits two inches high at 100 yards, this load hits the lower thick/thin junction of my duplex crosshairs at 4.5X at fifty yards (on a 3-9X scope). In this way I can use the small game load without having to rezero the rifle.

This has worked so well that this is by far the most used cast bullet load in my '06. Shoots well, no fiddling around.

[HighHook]

My fun 06 load is the Lee 6 311-93-1R sized .311 with 5gr Red dot. like Larry puts it i shoot a bazillion of them.

[BeeMan]

The 30 soup can was my first group buy mold, back before we had NOE, Mihec, and the like. Need to break it out and load some fun stuff. Son #2 was asking just tonight for something bigger than a 22 that he could shoot enough for building some skills.

[Maineboy]

You can push those little soup cans pretty fast and they'll hold their accuracy. 18.5 grains of 2400 gives me about 2000 fps and will hold 2 inches at 100 yards when shot in my scoped Winchester M70. In that rifle, had a hunting load using the RCBS 180 FN at about the same velocity and the 2 loads shot at nearly the same point of impact at 50 yards. There was a bit of a difference in impact at 100 yards.

[newton]

Yea, I'm not looking for sub accuracy, however I want decent accuracy at 100 yards. I'll try some lighter loads, but I am wondering if the drop from 50 to 100 would be a whole lot more than it is now. I am positive that with a rest I could hit a squirrel head without a hold over, or under, out to 100 yards.

I'd also try it without gas checks but my barrel is so pitted I just do not think it would be a good idea. I don't mind the extra step. But if I find they run ok and a relatively nice trajectory with lower charges, then I could see where the checks could be left off.

[newton]

You can push those little soup cans pretty fast and they'll hold their accuracy. 18.5 grains of 2400 gives me about 2000 fps and will hold 2 inches at 100 yards when shot in my scoped Winchester M70. In that rifle, had a hunting load using the RCBS 180 FN at about the same velocity and the 2 loads shot at nearly the same point of impact at 50 yards. There was a bit of a difference in impact at 100 yards.

I have a lee 170 fn that I am going to stick in it for this fall. And I would like to push it around that speed also. Should be interesting to see what POI is with this setup. I was not too far off from my other loads. Nothing a few rounds would get me back too. But it would be neat to have two loads that had nearly the same hold.

[Frank]

Savage is notorious for tooling marks in barrels. If you are worried about the pitting, why don't you just order a new Savage barrel and spin it on yourself?

[newton]

Savage is notorious for tooling marks in barrels. If you are worried about the pitting, why don't you just order a new Savage barrel and spin it on yourself?

Oh, I'm not worried at all. If I know its there it does not worry me. What I would be worried about is if I did not have gas checks on. New barrel would be nice, but not doable at the moment.

I have thought about it though anyways. Its an old gun, and the previous owner just did not take care of it. Its a Stevens model 110. So I am guessing that a Savage barrel would interchange. I would have to do some checking to make sure.

They are most definitely not tooling marks. They are rust pits. I think the guy probably had the thing hunting in the rain and then got home and stuck it in the closet for 20 years. If I remember right its a mid 60's gun.

I love the look of it. I stripped the stock and it looks good now. What I really like are the iron sights on it. Anymore now days you can hardly even find rifles with sights, much less true metal sights. Its nice to know you have some solid sights available if you were out on a trip and the scope got damaged.

For me, at least for now, it shoots as good as I can. Once I get some more shooting time under my belt I will graduate to a gun that can shoot better than me, but until then might as well stick to what I got.

If I ever run across a good deal, it might sway me to do it though.

[Frank]

Bore condition is pretty important with a bullet that is cast out of a lead alloy. I don't know how it works with boolits because I've never tried it. You may want to switch to a better lube like LBT Blue since you are pushing the speeds with a 30-06.

[newton]

Bore condition is pretty important with a bullet that is cast out of a lead alloy. I don't know how it works with boolits because I've never tried it. You may want to switch to a better lube like LBT Blue since you are pushing the speeds with a 30-06.

Ah, yes, bullets would be a different story....but seein how i'm usin boolits instead...well, it just seems purty good.

In all reality, I have not seen any leading as of yet. I am not saying I wont get any, but so far so good. We shall see.

[Sonnypie]

Sounds like a lot of fun! :D

I've long been an aficionado of lighter bullets and loads in my high power rifles. It only took 10 years to talk Dad into trying lighter, flatter shooting bullets for game.
Finally, a friend of his who killed (ruined) a deer with one of Dad's 180g tank slayer rounds embarrassed Dad into going the other way from his "heavier is better" way of thinking.

I cast a smidgen heavier bullet than yours for my fun. A Lee 120g pill (http://www.titanreloading.com/molds/bullet-molds/30-caliber-rifle/-lee-dc-mold-309-120-r-)
In the past, I did a lot of deer and antelope hunting with a hot-rod load of 3 types of 120g bullets.
My goal was for reduced loads for my up coming Grandsons to ease them into High Power rifle, instead of the trial by cannon fire I did as a kid.
Besides, little pills and light loads are just so darn much fun to shoot!

I pinged around with several different powders and loads. But I settled on a good old standard of Unique powder in my cast bullet loads. (I want a universal rifle-pistol-shotgun powder in my stash)
I use it to push both the Lee 120's and my Lyman 170's.

Set-Up "Dummy" Rounds. Zero Jump.
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/30%20Cal%20Cast%20Bullets/P3010298.jpg

[newton]

Yea, I have found them to be quite enjoyable to shoot also. There is still a good shove associated with them, but nothing horrible.

When you say zero jump your speaking about setting them out a ways huh? Did you find this to help that much?