Easter Kiwi hunter gets shot. Again!

[303Guy]

Ok. I know this is getting monotonous - year after year it's the same thing - hunter shoots another hunter. But how? Shooter says he thought what he saw was a deer's butt so he shot it. Say what? He aimed and shot at a deer's rump? Ok, so the 'deer's rump turned out to be another hunters head but he aimed at what he thought was a deer's ****! I don't get it?

"On Easter Sunday a young Hamilton man, out deer- stalking in the Kaimanawa Ranges, shouldered his rifle, placed the crosshairs over what he thought was the hindquarters of a deer, and squeezed the trigger."
Doh!
http://www.investigatemagazine.com/jul03hunt.htm

That's a bigger crime than killing a fellow hunter which is bad enough (often 'accidents' occur in camp while 'cleaning' loaded firearms. Come on. Our beer isn't that strong! It was beer wasn't it?)

He's the third hunter to get shot these past three weeks.

Maybe the story as reported isn't quite accurate so we'll see what later reports have to say.

[Mk42gunner]

I don't really know what the answer is, but I do know my dad made sure that I knew to identify what I was shooting at before he ever let me carry so much as a bb gun while out hunting with him. I retrieved a heck of a lot of small game when I was playing birddog for dad, I must have been about seven when I started following him hunting.

A lot of states have Hunter orange requirements while deer hunting, and it (and hunter education programs) have cut down the number of "accidents" here. A lot of people think that the orange makes it harder to hunt because the game can see you easier; but I have had both whitetail deer (several) and coyotes (one) come within 20 yards of me while I was sitting quietly wearing blue jeans and an orange shirt and hat.

I don't really think accident is the correct word to use in situations like this, but what else is there?

Robert

[blackthorn]

In the 1960s we used to have at least one "accidental" shooting death per hunting season. After a while, shooting someone "accidentally" pretty well always wound up a manslughter charge. All of a sudden almost no more "accidental" shootings. A more cynical man than I might well ask just how many of those "accidental" deaths really were "accidental"?

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

the ones i don't get are the i heard something moving in the bushes so i shot into them , really that produces deer for you

in Wisconsin all shotgun , muzzle loader , and rifle hunting of deer must be done while 50%or greater of your upper body is covered in blaze orange or safety green clothing , and a hat if worn must also be 50% or more blaze orange or safety green.

we have 600,000-to 700,000 people in the woods on opening day , and have very few accidents , we do have 5-7 heart attacks a year other things that have made the woods much safer is that any one born on or after January 1, 1973 must complete a hunters safety course most new hunters take this when they are 12 years old but anyone wanting to hunt must take it, as far as i know a graduate of hunters safety has never been the shooter in a fatal hunting accident.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Anyone that is so stupid, irresponsible, and thoughtless needs to do some jail time, a lifetime of service to the victim’s family, and be forcibly sterilized.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

What really gets me steamed about these “acts of gross negligence” is the liberals and other far left are right that laws prohibiting gun ownership would have saved this man’s life.

[MT Chambers]

I don't know about that, stupid is stupid, without a gun he prolly would have driven his car into someone.

[starmac]

Or a whole crowd of someones. geeeeeze.

[303Guy]

in Wisconsin all shotgun , muzzle loader , and rifle hunting of deer must be done while 50%or greater of your upper body is covered in blaze orange or safety green clothing , and a hat if worn must also be 50% or more blaze orange or safety green.I'm all for this and will be doing just that when next I go out.


A lot of states have Hunter orange requirements while deer hunting, and it (and hunter education programs) have cut down the number of "accidents" here.It will prevent many an 'accident' here too. Drinking while out shooting seems to be a bit of a pastime during duck hunting season. I'm not sure how many 'accidents' we have then.

I do know some of our drivers should not be allowed to possess guns. Perhaps driving offences for recklessness should disqualify gun ownership - kill two birds with one stone. Then again I have a buddy that scares me to death in a car, he drives so badly and recklessly but is very safe with a gun. He will kill someone on the roads one day. His brother is the same - I won't even go in a car with him!

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I have a prime candidate for for loss of a hole bunch of things starting with his license to drive and 90 days of freedom , yesterday evening i was driving down interstate highway 43 in the right of the 2 lanes southbound with the hole family in the van returning from a family Easter gathering the speed limit is 65
i was doing 65, yup i am that guy doing the speed limit in the right lane , a smaller suv was passing me doing maybe 68 it was maybe 2 car lengths in front of me but still in the left lane as i would expect a responsible driver to get 5-6 car lengths ahead of the vehicle being passed before pulling in the the right lane , when a white work van with ladder rack and Iowa plates cuts between us then passes the suv on the right and when he is just feet maybe 4 feet or less in front of the suv swerves hard in front of it and jams on his brakes then takes off driving fast and passing several other cars.

I was going to call it in but couldn't get the Iowa plate # , passing some one is one thing being upset with someone for driving in the left lane sure but , don't drive recklessly and intentionally endanger people if you don't feel your life is worth it , at least don't endanger others while your working on your own suicide

if you hit a van in the rear at 68 mile an hour that has already applied its breaks it is likely to go sideways and roll repeatedly a 1 ton Chevy cargo van doesn't stay on it's wheels when they spin like a Nascar

[303Guy]

My buddy or his brother couldn't have gotten over to America that quick! That's exactly what they would do!

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

please explain to your buddy to put it into perspective , if a person was being that irresponsible with a gun we would just shoot them and call it self defense

that stunt is reckless endangerment with a motor vehicle if no one gets hurt and manslaughter if you kill someone in the process.

[303Guy]

I do. I work on him at every opportunity. He is actually improving slowly.

[44man]

It is sad to hear about a hunter being shot but sadder yet is the stupidity of some.
Every big game hunter should use orange. I found out long, long ago that it is the best camo for deer ever. Some of my friends use the orange with a pattern on it and it is not needed.
The worst camo is the dark busy patterns and deer will have more trouble seeing you even with all light gray or white on. But that can get you shot for looking like a deer tail.
Wear orange and as much as you can, it really does help you shoot deer.

[725]

Heck, I wear orange at the range. Wearing a muted color at the 300 yard line can be overlooked too easily if you have a bunch of strangers on the line.

[Blacksmith]

Around here blaze orange and hunter safety classes are required. We still have hunter deaths but most are from falling out of tree stands or shooting themselves getting into tree stands.

Warning I was looking for some statistics on hunter deaths and stumbled across this web site with an agenda against Hunting, Trapping and Fishing.They are out there and trying to shut us down. http://www.all-creatures.org/cash/accident-center.html

[303Guy]

C.A.S.H - Committee Against Sport Hunting

Say what? While there may be far to many shooting accidents, the figures are a drop compared to other forms of accidental death or injury. I bet far more hunters get killed driving to and from the hunt.

But to be against sport hunting is ignorant. Without hunting those same animals will be culled. That's what happens here. They move in and exterminate the populations in some areas, not just cull them. But hunting is popular here in NZ and we don't hear of the anti's so much.

So this orange hunting gear, it's not just any orange or fabric right? It shouldn't be reflective I should think. Deer would see it as a grey. How does it look in the dark? And the blue? Might be good for bright light but how about in the dark undergrowth of a forest? I also hear rumours of spotlighting - orange and blue should be good for that (small head lamps should be avoided - looks like a deer's eye reflecting in a spotlight).

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

they call the color blaze or hunters orange , it isn't reflective , but nothing in nature at least not around these parts is this color

top it with the safety green nothing is that color

here is a link to a clothing manufacturer that our local stores sell you can see both colors , until you see it in the woods or field of brown , grey and green you can't quite appreciate how much it pops from the surroundings the solid is visible about 30 feet farther than the blaze camo we do deer drives , it is absolutely necessary to be able to see everyone else

http://www.walls.com/walls-legend-ii-safety-vest-26295

a man wearing blaze orange can be standing next to a red truck at 600 yards in a field of tall grass , you will see him better than the truck you can see it for miles in the open and as far as you can possibly see anything else in the woods

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Summary of Oregon Hunting Related Firearms Incidents – 1990 through 2009

Number of Incidents, regardless of cause


170

Number of Fatalities, regardless of cause


32

Number of Incidents, Vision-Related


85

Number of Fatalities, Vision-Related


21

Number of Vision-Related Fatalities, Victims Wearing Hunter Orange


0

[303Guy]

Thanks for that.

[44man]

It is great stuff. Deer will step on you if your in their way! [smilie=l:
One time I was tracking deer in the snow with my .44. Stainless gun. I spotted some and one buck was coming my way so I knelt in the trail. He was not legal at the time, needed more points. He walked through a brush pile and headed right to me. At 10 feet he finally seen his trail blocked. He backed up slow, went backwards through the brush pile without touching a branch, like he had eyes on his butt. :holysheep He just turned and walked down the hill.
I have never had deer see my shiny guns either.
I am confused why anyone needs camo arrows, camo knives, camo boots and on and on????? They cost more because the maker has to pay for camo rights.
Dark camo is out and Realtree was bad but lately they have come around with better stuff. Skyline and ASAT was always good for archery and I even wore the Skyline snow camo during early season with leaves on the trees.
Too much camo is made for people, not animals. The million leaves and branches on your suit is just for you, deer can't see that stuff.
I went into the sporting goods store and the racks and racks of camo made the whole section dark! I would not buy a single item in there.
The best thing for deer is to blend into the sky.
Blaze orange is the absolute best.
ASAT works because it is light, has large patches and takes on the coloration of what you are in. Great for archery.
Never look like a black blob!
Gun season DEMANDS that other people can see you. Put on the blaze orange in comfort, deer will NOT see you.
If you want my story about fooling deer, E mail me and I will send it to you.

[shdwlkr]

When I was a young hunter and just learning to hunt we had a lot of "sound shooters".
The group I learned to hunt with had lots of veterans and a few LEO's in it you learned real fast what to shoot at and what to wait and see what it was.

We had an outlaw group that was in the area where I learned to hunt and one day while cleaning out a deer one of my group had shot this outlaw group came upon me and told me it was their deer and that they would deal with me for trying to steal their dear. Just when I thought things were bad for me one of the two veterans that took me under their wing told this outlaw group that they should put their firearms down or be dealt with. They laughed and said one unseen person didn't scare them it was then that I heard a whole bunch a firearms actions move and even the outlaws picked on the sound. The one LEO that was with us that day then stepped out and put his pistol next to the loud mouth bully and asked him which he preferred upright or prone and it was then that the 30 guys from my camp stepped out in the small opening reliving the others of their firearms. They didn't get to bother any other young hunters for a very long time.

What you have to realize is that most of these guys had seen combat and were all to well aware of what goes on when one gets stupid and also when lead starts flying. I was so happy when my friends came over to me and showed me where I needed to pay more attention to my gutting operation of the deer. They never told me how they had decided to come look for me as it was an older member's deer I was gutting for. This person had seen the outlaws moving in and had gone and got the rest of the group and they had decided to see if the outlaws where going to be stupid or just walk past me without me even knowing they were there. Think to busy gutting the deer to hear what was going on around me. Try to not let that happen to often anymore.

[303Guy]

Just last night a buddy was telling me that one year 13 Kiwi hunters were shot and that several of them were wearing hi-viz! I assume that would be blaze orange. He says he got that from a conservation officer. Now I know of one hunter that was shot in camp by his companion whom I suspect was drunk and was aiming at him then pulled the trigger on a gun that he thought was unloaded. If the victim happened to have been wearing hi-viz then that skew the stats. That was not a 'hunting accident'. Guns going off on the back of a truck are not 'hunting accidents' either. No amount of blaze is going to prevent such incidents.

[1Shirt]

I often wonder about hunting accidents that may or may not be accidental. I recall some years back of a fatality in the field, and the one who was killed had a thing going with the shooters wife (came out later on). Was ruled an accident, but can't help but wonder how many like this there may be.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

those darned unloaded guns , might just be safer to keep them loaded so you know that their not unloaded

T.A.B.K
Treat every gun as if it were loaded
Always keep the muzzle in a safe direction
Be sure of you target and what is beyond
Keep your finger out of the trigger guard

flipping thru the channels one night there was a show about moon shiners , and this old boy was teaching his son about guns on the way to the still.
the the shiner version T.A.B.K.K
the first 4 are the same because even shiners need to be safe but the final K is for Keep it loaded they aren't no darned good if you got to go looking for shells when you need it an unloaded gun is just an expensive club.

[montana_charlie]

The article makes it clear that shooters are not identifying their target as a actual deer before pulling the trigger.
Yes, an orange garment should alert a person to the fact that he is not looking at a deer, but it still doesn't require him to identify a deer before he shoots it.

Hunting laws that require the hunter to know how many points are in the antlers, or that the animal has no antlers, make it illegal to hunt animals that do not qualify.
If you are in the bush with a license to shoot anything that lives there, all men are at risk from all directions.
It's only a matter of time ...


(Personally, I would never shoot an animal through the hindquarters unless I was in a true survival situation.)

CM

[bob208]

i don't know what it is about deer season that truns normal people into idiots. around here they have their rifles in the rack on the way to work just in case they see one. i have seen some ride around with the side door open on the van with their wife driving so they can get one in the feild on the way to and from work.

many years ago a boy was shot out of a tree. he was mistaken for a deer. another state i lived in you had to check in the deer. they have had more then one goat brought in and a small pony

[shdwlkr]

When I was a kid working on a neighbors farm we heard about the city guy who shot the prize bull of another farmer. It cost the person a few thousand dollars for that deer and his hunting rights for life, yes goats, sheep, calves all have been taken in as deer to check points.

I remember one year hunting with my winchester mdl 94 and coming up on another hunter with his 460 weatherby as he felt that was the smallest caliber it was safe to hunt deer with, why because the salesman in the city where he lived told him you can not get closer than several hundred yards of a deer so you something that will reach out and get them. Funny thing was he was getting tired carrying that cannon around with him and I am not sure if even with a support he could hit the broad side of barn at 100 yards with that thing.

I am one of those who physical makeup will not allow me to shoot magnum calibers as they twist me around just enough to make it darn near impossible to hit anything. Funny thing is normal calibers don't do this to me. So you know what I hunt with and they all seem to work just like they should for me.

I have passed on so many shots because I was not sure of what was on the other side of the animal and a few times it has turned out to be another hunter sometimes idiot that I didn't see at first. Yep been shot at that way many times, even stopped hunting for a few years because of it. You can only tempt fate so many times before it catches up to you and I don't wish to hung up on the hood of some idiots vehicle and labeled a deer.

[303Guy]

I can see how a fired up hunter can see a deer behind every bush but there is one thing he will not misidentify and that is a woman. Perhaps we should be wearing pink 'cammo'. Do deer see pink? I believe they do see yellow.

A buddy pointed out last night that for so many misidentification shooting accidents there are a suspiciously high number of head shots! There may be a good explanation besides intentional shootings and knowing that reason could allow us to take preventative measures.

[303Guy]

But both Leathwick and Harland were wearing brightly coloured clothing, specifically to avoid being mistaken as deer. In a bitter irony, Davies bullet even went straight through Leathwick’s "blaze orange" cap. Harland had the same ‘protective’ colouring across the top half of his bush jacket.I finally read through the original article. Now what? Methinks the idea of pink cammo should be investigated.

[odfairfaxsub]

When I was a young hunter and just learning to hunt we had a lot of "sound shooters".
The group I learned to hunt with had lots of veterans and a few LEO's in it you learned real fast what to shoot at and what to wait and see what it was.

We had an outlaw group that was in the area where I learned to hunt and one day while cleaning out a deer one of my group had shot this outlaw group came upon me and told me it was their deer and that they would deal with me for trying to steal their dear. Just when I thought things were bad for me one of the two veterans that took me under their wing told this outlaw group that they should put their firearms down or be dealt with. They laughed and said one unseen person didn't scare them it was then that I heard a whole bunch a firearms actions move and even the outlaws picked on the sound. The one LEO that was with us that day then stepped out and put his pistol next to the loud mouth bully and asked him which he preferred upright or prone and it was then that the 30 guys from my camp stepped out in the small opening reliving the others of their firearms. They didn't get to bother any other young hunters for a very long time.

What you have to realize is that most of these guys had seen combat and were all to well aware of what goes on when one gets stupid and also when lead starts flying. I was so happy when my friends came over to me and showed me where I needed to pay more attention to my gutting operation of the deer. They never told me how they had decided to come look for me as it was an older member's deer I was gutting for. This person had seen the outlaws moving in and had gone and got the rest of the group and they had decided to see if the outlaws where going to be stupid or just walk past me without me even knowing they were there. Think to busy gutting the deer to hear what was going on around me. Try to not let that happen to often anymore.

was a deer worth someones life ?

[shdwlkr]

Well apparently it was to the outlaws that wanted to take it from me.
Remember it was a LEO who messed up their plans so I guess he thought it was ok to use whatever means he needed to deal with them.
It was just my luck that the older member I was gutting the deer for happened to notice the outlaws going in my direction!! If you think a bunch of Veterans protecting a young kid is wrong I guess I was lucky that they didn't feel that way.

[303Guy]

They've done it again! Shooting deer, spotlighting. They decide to split up and encircle the deer. I don't know what this guy was wearing or whether he had his light on but he's dead now. I believe this was on a farm so it was legal - to spotlight that is.

[44man]

Crazy stuff!
One time when rabbit hunting we were high on a hill looking down at a field. There was a bunch of blacks in a circle with shotguns, closing the circle to flush rabbits. There was no space between them for a safe shot.
Sounds harsh but rolling good fun to watch stupidity! :bigsmyl2:
Then blacks would go to the pound and get dogs to hunt with. After hunting, they shot the dogs because they would not feed or care for them.
They VOTE! :-(

[Mk42gunner]

Hunting laws that require the hunter to know how many points are in the antlers, or that the animal has no antlers, make it illegal to hunt animals that do not qualify.

What I see, from a safety standpoint, as the bad thing about these type of laws is that the average "hunter" is going to be looking with his rifle scope. Not to mention what ti actually does to the gene pool of the deer, by allowing all the small antlered bucks survive to breed.

Robert

[x101airborne]

I can see how a fired up hunter can see a deer behind every bush but there is one thing he will not misidentify and that is a woman. Perhaps we should be wearing pink 'cammo'. Do deer see pink? I believe they do see yellow.

A buddy pointed out last night that for so many misidentification shooting accidents there are a suspiciously high number of head shots! There may be a good explanation besides intentional shootings and knowing that reason could allow us to take preventative measures.

They do see some colors, but I have no evidence that they see orange. And that is over hunting 4 states for whitetails.
Ask any of my friends..... Once I take more than one drink, I quit handeling firearms. PERIOD. Geargnasher can attest, so can all my guests on my ranch. I still guide and hunt after drinking, but I dont carry or handle a firearm. I want to have a great time and dont want to spoil it for others.


I got a couple of guys around here that I have been trying to get to go hunting with me since we had a falling out. None of them have taken me up on my offer. Wonder why?!