Who has blown up a ruger gp100?

[DrCaveman]

By this I am asking about friends, stories, myths, and oF course,hair-raising near disasters. I am trying to get a feel for its real capabilities, but I think I have come to my limit. I would appreciate to know how far other have pushed it while still exhibiting prudent safety practices (besides violating published loads).

If using a PM is necessary for forum etiquette and safety, then please proceed as is required.

Thanks!

[Bwana]

You don't have to "blow up" a gun to ruin it. You can also "jug" a chamber or stretch a frame, or break the crane, or crack the forcing cone, or split a barrel from the forcing cone to just behind the front sight ramp. Yes, I have done all those things over the years.

[DrCaveman]

That is what I meant by 'blow up:' damaging the gun beyond easy repair.

So, you have done these things with various ruger gp100's?

[Bwana]

No, and most people regard "blow up" as meaning bursting a clyinder.

[subsonic]

I have read that there is a considerable safety margin on all modern firearms. One example given was the Ruger Super Blackhawk that had a 100% safety margin, or could take twice the SAAMI spec pressure before it blew.

Now there is a big difference between "blew" and "slowly self destructed". And I guarantee if you fired very many loads in a SBH at slightly less than twice the pressure, the gun would exhibit several symptoms you would not like.

I like to have some safety margin left. Odd things happen. Powder bridges, wrong powder gets left in measures, etc. While all of these are bad, if you have used up your margin for error and something goes wrong, instead of holding a mangled gun in a partially mangled hand, you might be showing up on the Darwin awards list.

If you like to drive as close to on-comming cars as possible, just double your load pressures and have fun.:guntootsmiley:

[gandydancer]

I never have blown up any Ruger s. a friend of mine teenage son has. a 45/70 # 1 with the best looking wood I have ever seen on a # 1 a good kid. But just could not tell him anything.we still don't know what he did. He was screwing around with his granddads reloading stuff. Picked a few chunks of wood out of his hand and that was it. he never would talk about it. sad note to all this is a few years later the son at 22 yrs of age enjoyed a beer now and again as he did one night the folks had to go out and his dad ask him not to go out for a few hrs until the beer wore off. well he did and on a Harley and hit a tree and now lives in a home with the brain of a 6 year old. very sad indeed. GD
__________________

[TCLouis]

The limit, yours and mine should be pretty close to where they stopped with all the sophisticated gear available to bullet or powder manufacturers.

My disassembly story involves another of Ruger's fine products and is based 100% on my stupidity

[DrCaveman]

I appreciate the stories but I am not advocating recklessness. Just wondering if the new rugers can keep up with old 357 mag loads running 45000 psi. Maybe this was CUP but in any case it was well above published specs these days.

all bravado and fatherly advice aside, I would appreciate some evidence, or counter evidence, that running a load at an average 40kpsi is likely to damage the gun in quick order.

[35remington]

40,000 psi loads won't hurt the Ruger revolver, but in all seriousness.....given that handloading manuals now stop at 35,000, how do you know whether you are at 40,000 or not? Quite frankly, it's guesswork, and given that old data may have been higher than that, or actually just approximated it, you don't know just how far over you are.

Here's where the advice "if you need more power, get a .44 instead" is usually dispensed, and that's what I'm doing now.

If .357 power of current pressure levels won't get it done, another 100 fps with the same bullet probably won't help much. Having said all that, I imagine you'll be using older handloading data, and since it's your decision, have at it.

[DrCaveman]

Well a 44 is probably going to be my next gun purchase, but not for a little while.

I broached this subject because of my personal experiences with 200 gr boolits and Lil gun. The pulished info is nonexistent and hearsay loads are few and far between. The loads which do exist for 357 using this powder are pretty low pressure for the supposed velocities. I have run up to 15 gr and see no pressure signs or leading.

I have no idea what pressure I am running, but the gun seems to handle it fine. True, I take comfort from 'the old loads', but I am in uncharted territory, as far as I know, and was looking for some brass-tax guidelines for my gun.

All comments appreciated.

[mrjog]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/225144f8269a37e2f0.bmp (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4753)

Although I would not advocate doing so, I have exceeded this load in my Smith & Wesson 686 and Ruger SP101. I am fascinated by how much you can push a 357. Furthermore I am little reckless.

I wasn't sure if you were interested in cast only info. Nevertheless, this is my personal favorite load for the 357.

[waksupi]

Doc, I'm afraid you have a mind set that is not conducive to happiness with cast boolits. Get a larger caliber., Why ruin a gun? I have a M29 S&W .44 mag. with a stretched cylinder from hot loads, I would sell you if you want to save some time .

[DrCaveman]

Ok, look, I am not trying to reinvent the cartridge, nor lose a hand, nor hurt my gun. Pretty much, I really just want to feel confident pushing my 200 gr cast into the 1200+ fps range. I think Lil gun can do it, but still would like to know the true limitations of the gun so I know to keep well away from that range.

I don't even dare put pull house magnum hand loads through my model 19 anymore, since a handful of some below-max 158 gr hand loads started cutting the top strap. I bought the ruger to be a tank, and to shoot loads that other revolvers can't handle. This still needs to be tempered with some good judgement and light treading, I know. Thanks to all for useful info.

[Bret4207]

I'm not touching the "has anyone ever..." stuff with a 10 foot pole or making any judgment or slight towards anyone. I think your answer lays with calling or writing the Hogdon people or someone with a ballistics lab or program to see what kind of pressures you're looking at. That would be your first step I would think.

[subsonic]

Yes, definitely research what you are doing. A better definition of what you want to do in the opening post helps to differentiate you from someone who wants to "blow up" a GP100.

My suggestion is to do as mentioned above and contact someone who has pressure equipment as well as to do as much extrapolation as possible to known data. Also, get a chronograph (don't shoot it!) if you don't have one and compare velocity to pressure for similar loads. You don't get one without the other. There is no free lunch. And lastly, if you have not seen QUICKLOAD software, google it. It's software to "interpolate" load data when none is available or to substantiate know data. It should help to keep you in the margin for error instead of in the hospital, but it's not cheap.

I would be using H110 or 1680 and not LilGun for pushing the limits, but it's your gun.

Good luck.

[hornsurgeon]

I use the noe copy of the ranch dog boolit designed for the 35 rem. Its about 200 gr in my alloy. I use 12.5 gr h110 and get over 1200 fps in my gp100. I wouldn't use lilgun.

[bob208]

in all my years i have seen one ruger blownup. that was back in 72 a super blackhawk in .44 mag. the cyl. was split and the top strap was sprung. the load 18 gr bullseye 265 gr bullet. he thought he had 2400. the pistol took 2 cylander full before it let go.

one thing i don't understand why do you want to overextend the safe loads? what is the point? what do you think you will prove besides risking injury and greatly reduicing the life of the pistol?

[excess650]

A cut top strap indicates high pressure gas cutting regardless of manufacturer. Ruger quit making the 357Max revolvers because of this, and the fact the forcing cones were eroded in short order.

GP100s are pretty strong, and you might have to go to a Redhawk 357 or Freedom Arms to get a stronger revolver. Regardless, needlessly pushing to the limit isn't necessarily a wise thing to do.

If you need a heavy boolit at 1200fps, go to a bigger caliber like a 41 Mag or 44 Mag.

[MT Gianni]

I believe that Ruger quit making the 357 Max because of publicity over the top strap cutting rather than the cutting. Several guns will cut with ball powders and light bullets. The top strap cutting appeared to hit a depth and stop, IIRC it was .004". The refusal of some to stop using 110 & 125 gr bullets and push them as hard as they could instead of using the heavier 173-200 gr ones the designers envisiond contributed a lot to it. I believe that Bob Milek wanted it killed as it conflicted with the 30 & 357 Herrett cartridges he had helped developed and printed harsh things about the gun and it's cutting. Ego's are strange things.

[bob208]

that is the same story i got about the .357max.

[tek4260]

I believe that with something like H110, sticky extraction will cause you grief before you get to the point of causing damage. FWIW...

Stay away from fast powders.

[MtGun44]

Really, really wrong attitude, IMO.

Sorry, not going to help you do foolish and irresponsible reloading.

Bill

[Bullet Caster]

I'd stay away from Lil Gun. I've only heard bad things about it and have read here on the forum that it's a bad powder (burns too hot). If you want fast powder then I'd suggest using Bullseye. It's gotta lot of flash for the buck and works well in my .45 ACP & Colt and my 9mm. I've read of using Win 231 or Hogdon P38 with the same good results. Those are the hottest and fastest powder I want to burn in my pistols. BC

[dubber123]

Published loads: 10.0 grains of Alliant 2400, 200 gr. LRN, 1,245 fps. from a 5.6" barrel, 32,800 Psi. ** 12.4 grains of Winchester 296, 200 grain lead, 1,335 fps. from an 8.3" barrel. 35,000 CUP.

Getting a 200 grain cast into the 1,200's from a 6"+ barrel isn't hard to do at safe pressures, just use the right propellant for the job.

[btroj]

I have blown up nor damaged a firearm. Don't intend to start now.

I really don't get the purpose of this entire thread. Why intentionally go above SAAMI specs?

[odfairfaxsub]

I never have blown up any Ruger s. a friend of mine teenage son has. a 45/70 # 1 with the best looking wood I have ever seen on a # 1 a good kid. But just could not tell him anything.we still don't know what he did. He was screwing around with his granddads reloading stuff. Picked a few chunks of wood out of his hand and that was it. he never would talk about it. sad note to all this is a few years later the son at 22 yrs of age enjoyed a beer now and again as he did one night the folks had to go out and his dad ask him not to go out for a few hrs until the beer wore off. well he did and on a Harley and hit a tree and now lives in a home with the brain of an 6 year old. very sad indeed. GD
__________________

sorry to hear about the kid, luckily i might have been that way but on silly stuff and then i learned my lesson the cheap way's but never this pricy.

[DrCaveman]

Doc, I'm afraid you have a mind set that is not conducive to happiness with cast boolits. Get a larger caliber., Why ruin a gun? I have a M29 S&W .44 mag. with a stretched cylinder from hot loads, I would sell you if you want to save some time .

I beg to differ. I am extremely happy with cast boolits, and it is this happiness which has allowed my experimentation to go this far.

Your comment regarding the smith is why I bought a ruger to run full-tilt. It is not the first time I have heard of smiths shaking loose and stretching. The people telling me this had all their fingers and eyes.

[DrCaveman]

I'm not touching the "has anyone ever..." stuff with a 10 foot pole or making any judgment or slight towards anyone. I think your answer lays with calling or writing the Hogdon people or someone with a ballistics lab or program to see what kind of pressures you're looking at. That would be your first step I would think.

I mush appreciate this comment, despite the inherent lawyer-based limitations that their techs will be faced with. If anyone has tried pushing the envelope, I like to hope they were the first.

[DrCaveman]

I use the noe copy of the ranch dog boolit designed for the 35 rem. Its about 200 gr in my alloy. I use 12.5 gr h110 and get over 1200 fps in my gp100. I wouldn't use lilgun.

Now, this is useful info! I know that he didn't 'blow up a gp100', but this is a stout load thatci do not find published anywhere. And no, I don't count handloads.com as published.

Of course, I also don't count hornsurgeon's load as published, but at least I can rest a little easier having heard it from a human...via a keyboard...via a wireless Internet connection.

[DrCaveman]

I believe that with something like H110, sticky extraction will cause you grief before you get to the point of causing damage. FWIW...

Stay away from fast powders.

Staying away from fast powders was my plan anyway, but thanks for the tip. I verrrrry much like hearing things like your first comment, since that seems to be info that I can use.

This may be surprising to some following this thread, but I have avoided h110/296 because of supposedly rapid increases and decreases in pressure when loaded outside of manual specs. I am, after all, conscious of my safety 8-)

[DrCaveman]

Published loads: 10.0 grains of Alliant 2400, 200 gr. LRN, 1,245 fps. from a 5.6" barrel, 32,800 Psi. ** 12.4 grains of Winchester 296, 200 grain lead, 1,335 fps. from an 8.3" barrel. 35,000 CUP.

Getting a 200 grain cast into the 1,200's from a 6"+ barrel isn't hard to do at safe pressures, just use the right propellant for the job.

By far, the most useful post of this entire thread, proving that I should have used a different title initially.

Ok, I found the alliant load since starting this thread, appreciated. I cannot find the win296 load you speak of, but I will take it at face value for now. Probably won't try it unless I can get at least one more source, on paper.

Do you have any experience with Lil gun? Do you agree with other posters that it is the wrong powder to be working with if I am to reach this goal?

[shooting on a shoestring]

DrCaveman, I get that you have a Mod 19 and have sense enough not to kill it. The GP100 will take more hotrodding with less problems.
My two cents on LilGun, its a shotgun powder for the 410, hence the name. I've burned a pound mostly in .357 in a Blackhawk and a GP100. It definitely heats a barrel more than I expected. My topend loads use 2400, burned jugs of it. I've used H110/296 to good effect, but 2400 is more flexible. One thing to watch out for is what P.O. Ackely called the tipping point. Its where you get less velocity with increasing powder charge. You can't tell it from recoil, flattened primers, case expansion or sticky extraction. You have to have chronograph. Do you have one? If not, it should be your next "gun" purchase.

[DrCaveman]

So, how many failures are allowed for a major ammo manufacturer to be sued into bankruptcy? Does one in a million seem fair? Not even close.

For a round built by Remington to cause a fatality due to mfrg errors once a decade would be absolutely unacceptable. How many million rounds do they produce each year? Let's say it is 10 million per year. So, a catastrophic failure (gun or personal destruction) rate of 0.000001% is too much for their business to withstand.

How many rounds do I load per year? Well, maybe 10,000 if I can find the time. I know some people load many more, but they do not approach Remington levels. So at this rate, if I am somehow able to maintain remington's level of QC, it will take me 10,000 years of loading to reach that one instance of catastrophic failure allowed within specs.

So now into the world where we most live, home-brew casting and reloading. How many customers do Lyman and Lee have between them? Say, a quarter million? Loading an average of 10,000 rounds each per year? Same acceptable rate of failure gives us 25 catastrophic bullets per decade (unless I moved a zero wrong). Most people don't load 10k per year, I am pretty sure. Still, I am pretty sure that Lyman and Lee would not be in business if there were reports of people dying at a rate of 2.5 per year using their recommended loads and bullets.

Let's then conservatively drop the rate of catastrophic failure by a few more degrees of magnitude, to really see the reliability of the data we are working with.

Following manual-listed recipes to the T, it would take me just over a trillion rounds to get into the 'likely to hurt me' statistical range.

This is WHY we all reload, among other reasons, in case you didn't realize it. We don't have to abide by these stupendous safety guidelines that major ammo manufacturers do. If we can develop a load that is safe 99.9999% percent of the time, we will be fine for a lifetime of reloading. If we are writing reloading manuals or selling ammo, then we will quickly be in the poor house, and probably in jail, running these odds.

So cut me some slack, and please, from this point forward NOT ALL comments are appreciated. Please limit to those of a constructive nature.

[DrCaveman]

Shoestring-

Your po ackley comment is exactly what I am looking for. Or course I do not want to blow up my gun or my body, but it would be extremely helpful to realize the point at which I am not making my rounds any 'better'.

That settles it, I will wrap up my shopping for a chrony any pick one. 'tipping point', I like that, and it makes sense, confirming the capabilities of the powder/bullet combo, along with the gun designed around the cartridge.

I am not seeking pressure simply for pressure's sake, but rather trying to use this round as it was intended: Hunting small medium game and being one wicked man stopper.

[Heavy lead]

Well, to be constructive and nothing else I cannot comment on 200 grain boolits in the .357, but I can comment on 'Lil Gun and the 180 grain boolit, one of my own design on Mountain Molds page. No it's not over max, it's published by Hodgdon, and it's simply superb in my GP100 6" barrel blued gun made two years ago, it chronographs at 1500 fps, extracts easy, no evidence of gas cutting and doesn't make the revolver any hotter than 2400 loads and gives more velocity, is cleaner, and is more accurate than the pretty accurate 2400 load.
Is it as good as H110 or 296 would be, I don't know because my load development stopped here, as I was and am happy with the load.
I would not hesitate to develope a load with 'Lil Gun with a 200 grain boolit in the .357 if I were so inclined to shoot a heavier than 180 in it, based on my experience with the 180 with it.
The data from Hodgdon uses a 180 partition, I'm assuming this bullet produces much more pressure from the same load I'm using with the cast gas checked boolit, but who really knows, what I do know is with the published max, worked up from the published minimum, no issues were noted, brass life is long, with no evidence of primer pocket stretching or anything else.
I would think an email or call to Hodgdon would get you some information, they and the folks at Alliant and Accurate have helped me in the past with a couple of questions I've had like this.
Before someone makes any assumptions, I haven't, nor hope to, nor will try to blow a weapon up, or even approach it. God willing.

[tek4260]

Staying away from fast powders was my plan anyway, but thanks for the tip. I verrrrry much like hearing things like your first comment, since that seems to be info that I can use.

This may be surprising to some following this thread, but I have avoided h110/296 because of supposedly rapid increases and decreases in pressure when loaded outside of manual specs. I am, after all, conscious of my safety 8-)

H110 supposedly gives trouble when it is reduced too much or when it is compressed. I say supposedly only because I have not experienced any troubles with it. I do not reduce it and I do not compress it so I doubt I ever will have any trouble.

To figure your load, mark the case at the depth of the seated boolit and fill with H110 to that line. Dump it on the scale and that is your max load. Reduce that amount 10% and that is your minimum/start load. The best accuracy for me is at 100%. REMEMBER, all boolits seat to a different depth so you have to start over if you ever decide to change boolits.

I would argue a person loading heavy loads with the appropriate powder has less chance of grenading one than someone loading reduced loads with fast powder.

[454PB]

I've been involved in several discussions concerning throat erosion and top strap cutting. I even posted pictures of it in my Ruger SRH and Fredom Arms .454's. In my opinion, it happens with any magnum handgun after enough rounds have been fired. One of the worst cases was my first .357 magnum....a S&W model 28. It had a rather deep channel cut in the top strap after 30K rounds or so, but no ill effects were seen.

I'm also a fan of Lil'Gun, and I've burned a lot of it in .454 and .44 magnum, less in .357.

I see no difference in the heat and erosion caused by Lil'Gun than what is caused by H-110, WW296, AA#9, or WC820. They are all slow burning ball powders and given enough shooting, you're gonna get erosion. That hot gas venting out around the forcing cone at 30K to 60K PSI is going to cause erosion eventually.

I've never blown up a Ruger, but I did once fire a SBH while the previous boolit was stuck in the barrel, but that's another story.

I own both a GP-100 and a Security Six. In my opinion, either one will handle pressures that were considered normal in the first .357 magnum loads back in 1935.....and then some.

[tek4260]

Also, look for a boolit design that doesn't eat all your case volume. Here is a 300gr 44 that seats shallower than a 240. Leaves lots of room for powder

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/DSCN0269.jpg

[dubber123]

By far, the most useful post of this entire thread, proving that I should have used a different title initially.

Ok, I found the alliant load since starting this thread, appreciated. I cannot find the win296 load you speak of, but I will take it at face value for now. Probably won't try it unless I can get at least one more source, on paper.

Do you have any experience with Lil gun? Do you agree with other posters that it is the wrong powder to be working with if I am to reach this goal?


The only reason I shy away from 'Lil Gun is some reports I read of pressure spikes when you are leaning on the throttle. These reports pertained to the .475 Linebaugh, which operates at significantly more pressure than the .357 Mag., so in your case, I wouldn't let that deter me from it's use.

I don't personally see your goal of 1,200 fps as hard to hit, and at safe pressures. Staying within established pressures, I am sure 'Lil Gun would work just fine. The heaviest I have shot in .357 was 180 Jacketed, and in my case, 2400 actually produced higher velocities than H-110.

[Good Cheer]

In 1981 I was looking for a cast design that didn't take up all the 296 space for my 4" Security Six. Had a mold made that put the weight forward of the case mouth. Took advantage of the wide land five groove rifling pattern Ruger put in their non-stainless revolvers to make a blunt self aligning tapered bore riding nose that ended at the front of the cylinder. The project worked out with excellent results. That year in Utah a silhouette shooter tried to buy the revolver from me when he stood up and pegged the ram three out of six shots the first time he picked it up. I was happy shooting rabbits at lesser distances. Police targets at 100 yards were reasonable shooting at the range on I-80 east of Salt Lake. That's how it shot after the constriction at the frame was lapped out and the bore was polished.

Said all that to say this...
Pistol molds are generally designed to work reasonably well in most any revolver. If you want to have good accuracy and maximum beneficial use of the available space it may be worth while to look at tweaking a mold to make it best for your chosen piece.

[klcarroll]

I'm afraid I identify with the "ultra-conservatives"; ......Because that's the kind of reloader I have always been.

I have always believed that if you buy enough gun in the first place, you don't have to "hot-rod" it to get the job done.

.......And there is, of course, the issue of cost: .....Firearms today are EXPENSIVE!!! ...I'm not a rich man, and I want my investment to last for as long as possible. (Without relegating them all to "safe-queen" status!)

Kent

[thegreatdane]

Develop nuclear loads if you like. I am not one to condemn. That's what freedom is all about, right?

that said, I stop at the Kieth loads. They're plenty warm for my enjoyment.

[mrjog]

I've never really worried about going over pressure with lead boolits. How fast are you pushing those lead 357's? I load mine so soft that it is not as fun to shoot and I still have to shoot a few jacketed bullets to clean out the barrel.

[DrCaveman]

Mrjog

I can't say for sure about speed. That said, I am hoping to pick up a chrony today.

I can tell you that I have experienced either no leading or very minor leading at the pressures I have run so far.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I blew up an Italian single action revolver, on purpose. Wishing to investigate stories of single actions blowing up with light loads I obtained a pistol ordered destroyed by a court of law. Under careful conditions I double loaded light charges of fast burning powder with 200 gr boolits. The gun did not blow. I double charged a standard load of medium burning powder, the gun did not blow as I expected it to. I then filled the case with slow burning powder, less than a double charge and the gun blew. It was my opinion that I had weakened the gun by the previous overcharges. In the end I learned very little. Italian steel is not American steel. I don’t use fast burning powders in large black powder cases. I don’t use light .45 boolits. But I did confirm what others had already said, .45 sight actions are not blowing at cowboy matches due to double charges. I realize this does not address your GP-100 in .357, but it’s all I have to offer.

[dubber123]

Well, I tried a few of the 10.0 Alliant 2400 loads today. Winchester brass, Fed standard primer, Lyman 200 gr. RN plain base. Gun was a 4" S&W model 65, the first .357 I found in the gun locker. Velocity for 5 rounds: 1020, 1028, 1020, 1026,1018. The brass extracted fine, primers were pretty flat. You might crack 1,200 from a 6", but I'm betting no. If boredom strikes again, I'll try some H-110.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE OLD MANUALS LOAD RECOMMENDATIONS.
Untold rounds were loaded & fired using that data.
Unless it was the min. suggested loads for 4350 & 4320 in /06 based cases.

That said the old Pacific manual did have a bad reputation, as some guns were ruined with it's top end loads.
Also you need to remember each firearm is a law unto itself in some respects.
I do not have a GP 100 so can not advise you on it. I would choose a different powder, a slow burner , that fills the case more. Go very slow, Very small increments, 10 shot strings.

All Wildcaters & users of gov. surplus powders tread in dark & uncharted territories.
What you are suggesting doing is ,not so different.
Many of our predecessors had to do such tests, pressure guns did not always exist.
Saint Elmer had to do it with the 44 spl. to develop the 44 mag. for example. There were others working along the same lines.
ANOTHER ROUTE - LOAD 3 ROUNDS at each level in the powder you want to try. Send them to White laboratories for pressure testing. They used to do that for a fee. :Fire::Fire:

[coverbw]

I think Ruger overbuilds their guns, which I appreciate. Here is a video I think would have ended badly in any other revolver:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_AmpNimp-Q

[DrCaveman]

Well, I tried a few of the 10.0 Alliant 2400 loads today. Winchester brass, Fed standard primer, Lyman 200 gr. RN plain base. Gun was a 4" S&W model 65, the first .357 I found in the gun locker. Velocity for 5 rounds: 1020, 1028, 1020, 1026,1018. The brass extracted fine, primers were pretty flat. You might crack 1,200 from a 6", but I'm betting no. If boredom strikes again, I'll try some H-110.

I already ran the 2400 route, and was frankly quite pleased. Despite alliant's max load of 10.0 gr, I experienced no pressure signs and took it to 11.6 gr. Stopped there because it seemed prudent, though my primers were not flat. I still need to chrony all these, maybe soon. It sounds like I may be nearing 1200 with my load and 6" of barrel, but I will have to measure it.

I just bought a pound of H110, and I will try it out this weekend. Probably won't have a chrony by that point (mail order seems to be my best option), but at least I can suss it out for pressure signs and basic accuracy tests.

What primers did you use for these loads? I find the Feds to flatten much sooner than the CCI's.

[DrCaveman]

Boom boom, you are speaking my language.

We are so coddled at this point that no one dares 'take risks'. As long as we do things methodically, and record/remember our loads and observations, we are walking no more of a razors edge than the predecessors. I can see no way that we are less prepared to deal with this kind of experimentation than they were- and all I'm talking about is replicating their loads! Not creating new hunting caliber rounds from scratch and balls.

They can always say that 'everything that can be done has been done in the world of smokeless powder projectiles, and there is nothing new to offer'. They say that about every discipline in life, and usually- nay, ALWAYS- they are wrong. I know that more conservative types don't subscribe to this mentality, by definition, but hey, there is always a new way to smoke a brisket. It's not always better than your old way.... But sometimes it is.

Boom boom, thanks for the contribution.

[dubber123]

What primers did you use for these loads? I find the Feds to flatten much sooner than the CCI's.[/QUOTE]


Federal standard SP. The CCI's are much harder, and will take more to flatten or crater. Even though it is one indication of pressure, I don't view primer condition as one of the more reliable methods. In a revolver, I pay more attention to extraction feel. Your 2400 load was no doubt in the velocity range you want, but I'm betting pressures were right up there too.

[subsonic]

Look at silhouette and single shot data for the .357 mag.

An older speer manual lists this first batch of data for a 10" contender and says they were pushing things to 45,000CUP. They warn to only use these loads in "single shot pistols and heavy framed revolvers".

The bullet is the speer #4231 200gr TMJ Sil loaded to 1.690" OAL with a CCI 550 primer.
H110 13.5gr @ 1317fps, 14.5gr @ 1392fps
296 13gr @ 1286fps, 14gr @ 1370fps
AA9 11.7gr @ 1262fps, 12.7gr @ 1369fps <-standard CCI500 primer
2400 11gr @ 1243fps, 12gr @ 1336fps
I4227 12.2gr @ 1088fps, 13.2 @ 1222fps

Lyman shows the 358627 215gr GC @ 1.680" OAL with a CCI550 primer but does not list pressures. This is also in a 10" contender.
Blue Dot 7.0gr @ 1092fps, 8.7gr @ 1263fps
H110 10.3gr @ 1118fps, 12.8gr @ 1322fps
2400 9.0gr @ 1028fps, 11.2gr @ 1257fps

Remember that this is a gap-less 10" barrel these were tested in and I don't know if you can load to that OAL in your GP. If the boolit seats deeper, pressures will be much higher. Reduce by a lot.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Take a careful look at the firearm listed as the test firearm in the manual.
If they are lesser guns, loads listed are plenty safe.
Remember single actions tend to be stronger than double actions (of similar size).
I would not bet on the GP 100 being in the same class as a single shot handgun by any stretch.
Do a thread search on some of my work with the 357,
BUT REMEMBER MY STATEMENT :
THESE LOADS ARE NOT FOR LESSER GUNS.:Fire::Fire:

[DrCaveman]

I do not try to rank my gp100 with the T/C single shot variety, but I would no be surprised if she could handle some of the loads.

Subsonic, I have run near that level with 2400 and had no probs. Dunno about pressure but it was cast so probably a little lower than 45k cup. I didn't like it as much as Lil gun for several reasons. I am going to continue testing around 13.5 gr Lil gun with my 200 gr cast, and try to find best accuracy. A load with h110 will compete with it.

Thanks to all for guidance.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
My experience is limited to a S&W MOD 27, a Ruger Blackhawk that I used to own.
The S&W could not handle loads the Blackhawk could.

I shoot a Redhawk & love it.
I prefer a slug around 180grs., nowadays.:Fire::Fire:

[Swampman]

If I wanted to shoot hot loads, I'd use a single action.

[mrjog]

You could buy a 500 and just get it out of your system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4SpVBpxX54&list=UUD_BwT_EX-ReV87lwhs8GQw&index=1&feature=plcp

I like to see how far I can push a load too though.

[mrjog]

I like to see how far I can push a load too though.

I just realized how that sounds.

:groner:

[Lonegun1894]

I for one can appreciate what you're trying to do, even though I dont personally have a need for that kind of load as an everyday thing, I am interested to see what kind of performance you get. I mostly use 158gr cast in mine, and they have performed very well on everything I have needed to do, but who among us doesnt need another mould and more load info?

[dmize]

When I bought my 480 SRH,load data was pretty much non existant, so knowing that it was developed between Ruger and Hodgon,I did a really stupid thing rather than experimenting. I called Hodgon. I talked to Dave Embry no less. He was very friendly and gave me a wealth of information over the phone and even faxed me their in house load data. Bottom line just call Hodgon or Alliant and hear what they have to say.
And for the record regarding older load data, it has been said MANY MANY MANY times that powder formulations have changed over the years, Heck its even recommended to drop powder charges when changing lot numbers.
As for the rest, last time I looked,GP100's were pushing better than 5 bills, I aint about to flush that much down the toilet out of curiosity.

[Good Cheer]

Anybody use gas check wadcutters seated out to the front of the cylinder?