Black Powder and lighter bullets?

[catkiller45]

I guess for some reason I always figure with the big bore
comes big bullets.You know 500 grain and up...

So what can anyone tell me about the lighter bullets,let
say for the heck of it under 400 grains....I don't ever
remember reading anything about them and black
powder..If I did I must have forgot..

Has anyone on here tried such a load and if so could you
share your finding with us...Thank You very much..

[StrawHat]

I use the Lyman Gould boolit (457122, 320 grain HP) with a full charge of black powder. It is a great load for whitetailed deer.

The Springfield Armory designed the Collar Button (Lyman 457130, 150 grains) to allow the soldiers a good practice load. I have not used my mold for the 45-70 but have used it in a couple of revolvers.

And don't forget, the original load for the 45-70 used a 405 grain RN boolit. The 500 grain RN did not arrive until 1882.

[catkiller45]

I am thinking on terms of how accurate they might be.Grandson wants to shhot the rifle,but I aint gonna let him with the heavy bullets...And kids need to hit the target...I just have never read anything about using lighter bullets and black ppowder,except like a muzzle loader...

[Mike Brooks]

My Farmingdale Shiloh shoots great with 405grs boolits.

[catkiller45]

Thanks for the kind reply...It is very much appreciated...

[TXGunNut]

With my 45/90 I don't notice much difference in recoil between the 405 and the 500 grainers. More room for powder w/ the 405's offsets the heavier boolit, I guess. Not much leade in my rifle so all boolits are seated pretty deep, I only manage to put about 74 grns into a Starline case under the 500 grn boolit so that helps as well. I've had a few youngsters shoot it with no complaints.

[PanaDP]

To add to this, does anybody shoot fairly light paper patched bullets in a 45-2.4"? I hunt whitetails in PA with my family and the 500+ grain bullets just aren't needed and shots over 100yds are rare. I'd like to cook up a paper patched load with a ~350gr bullet. I'm thinking perhaps groove diameter and seated deep enough to just cover all of the patch so the loaded rounds will be super durable in bad weather?

[Hang Fire]

The rifling twist is a factor, but consider the same caliber in a muzzleloader, high velocity (for BP) and accurate,

[Nobade]

Well, the #457191 is a black powder boolit that works in either the 45-70 or 45 Colt. Casts out at about 285gr. IIRC. That thing, cast from pure lead, sized to .454" and paper patched up to .460" works well with black powder if you use a lube wad or with smokeless too. At least it does in my Marlin 1895CB.

[catkiller45]

Guess I will just have to experiment some,as I am not seeing or getting what I am looking for..Or maybe it's my own fault for not saying it is a sharps model 45-70...These lightwe bullets will be used for target work at 250 yards is all...And I would like to keep it with black powder or maybe a duplex load if possible...He is 12 but small if you get my meaning...Most kids,if it hurts they aren't going to want t o shoot any more...Hell,the 600 grain I shoot at times rattles my teeth good...lol twist is 1 in 18

[Larry Gibson]

Spence Wolf's book; Loading cartridges For The Original .45-70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine now sold by Pat Wolf at www.the45-70book.com has lots of BP & smokeless load information from original rifle and carbine loads with the 405 gr M1873 bullet, the M1881 500 gr bullet, 1 & 3 RB "guard" loads, foraging shotshell loads and galery loads using RBs, pistol bullets and Rapine 210 gr bullets. The loads go to as little as 5 gr FFg with a .457 Rb for 570 fps or 630 fps if FFFg is used. There is also now BP loading for the .45 Colt in the book. The book is well worth the price even if you don't load the 45-70 for the TD.

Larry Gibson

[Chicken Thief]

When you go light boolits and light loads then add filler and switch to a faster BP ie finer granulation. That way it will continue to burn clean.
Made a squib load once with 30 grains FFF, card wad, dab of greace and a 457 RB

[.22-10-45]

Hello, catkiller45. What you are refering to was well known in the later half of the 19th century..Developed by the British, and known as Express cartridges...a heavy powder charge combined with a fairly light weight bullet for caliber..this gave quite high velocity for that time and a flat trajectory..useful range was about out to 150 yds or so. Special lightweight rifles were built for ease of carrying,..and slower twists were used for even greater velocity.
However..There is no free lunch..these express rifles were not the most accurate..groups of 4 or 5" at 100yds. were the norm..plenty good for hunting..but hardley target grade.
Velocity quickly decreased and drop increased after 150 to 200yds. on account of the lightweight bullets.
The fad caught on briefly over here with Winchester loadings... .40-110, .45-90, .45-110, .50-110, etc.
I think for the most part, Hunters in this country would rather have had accuracy over high-speed, and so the big Ballards, Remingtons, and Sharps were prefered.

[Lead Fred]

Cept a box of 50 350 speers, I got given to me, Ive only even shot 405s though my 45/70.
Got a 420 mold coming.

45 cal, 70 gr of FF, 405gr RN

If its good enough for the Army, its good enough for me

[NickSS]

I have been shooting light bullets in my 45-70s for years. My favorite bullets are the Lyman 300 gr and the RCBS 325 gr bullets. I have shot thousands of them over the years with both smokeless and black powder in both lever actions and single shot rifles.I use them for hunting deer and pigs as well as for target matches out to 200 yards. With a little load development I have gotten very good results at 200 yards with the 325 RCBS bullet with black powder loads of 50 to 70 gr in a 45-70. The lighter loads use filler such as corn meal or pufflon. I use them almost exclusively for my clubs 200 yard silhouette matches. The knock the targets down just fun and save a lot of lead for such short range matches. One smokeless load that I use with the rcbs bullet is truely amazing consisting of 27 gr of AA 5744.