Chronographing and stuff

[subsonic]

After Chris (step-son) and I went to Archery with YHEC, we stayed at the range to do some chronographing and plinking.

I started by re-zeroing my .475 BFR (swapped UD30s) and zeroing the UD25 that I just put on my 6" 686. During sighting in, it was pretty obvious that both guns were shooting great.

While I sighted in, Chris was plinking with the MKII.

I proceded to Chronograph some loads through each gun.

I had 2 loads I wanted to measure for each gun.

For the 686, I had a Lee 38-148WC cast of WDWW, sized .358" and lubed with LLA over 3gr of 700x, and the 105gr Lee cast of WDWW and sized .358" with LBT Blue over 4.5gr of 700x. Both were crimped in the crimp groove, loaded in mixed brass and primed with CCI 500s.

The 148gr shot AWESOME and grouped about .8" for six shots at 25yds. I didn't manage to measure my 50yd group, but it was about 2" for six and slightly vertically strung. Chrono said 817, 825, 810, 841, 837, 811 for six shots.

The 105s shot decent, but I think I need to try some different stuff. They grouped about 2" @25yds and were horizontally strung. At 50yds they were also horizontally strung and measured about 3.5" Chrono 1040, 1082, 1043, 1067, 1053, 1115.

I passed the 686 to Chris with about 60 of the 148gr loads which he promptly shot (quite well I might add).

I then chroned Mellonhead's load and boolits in the BFR. They were loaded with a 400gr sensible Keith he deisned at Mtn Moulds. Cast of ACWW, sized .476" and lubed with LBT Blue, they were loaded over 14gr of HS6 with a CCI 300 and I also tried my own concoction of 26gr of H110 with a CCI 350.

HS6 -> 1141, 1148, 1121, 1135, 1128 (very consistent IMHO!) and they also grouped into a short vertical string under an inch at 25yds and made a well distributed cluster at 50yds that measured about 2", with 3 of 5 touching in a line.

H110-> 1402, 1389, 1397, 1376, 1374 and leaded. Groupings started good (all shots touching @ 25yds) and then opened up as lead built up.

I decided to chrono the 105gr .38s in my S&W 337ti. On the first shot, I shot the top edge chronograph and destroyed it :groner: I guess they shoot pretty low.

I also noticed that the Pachmayr Decellerator grips I put on the .475 are starting to come apart at the top where the recoil is focused. I can see steel through cracks in them. That's after only about 100rds of use. I plan to swap them for a new set at Cabelas, but after some experimentation, I think I might actually like the stock Uncle Mike's grips best on the BFRs.

[44man]

Sounds good to me!
I have the Pachmeyer presentation grips on my old SBH. They are split in the back from removing them to change springs all the time and the rubber is worn away by the trigger guard. I guess after 63,000 heavy loads, something has to go! :lol:

[mellonhead]

I think HS6 is a powder that gets looked over alot as a medium powder in the bigbores. I have had excellent results with it.

Toby

[Larry Gibson]

Always with handguns, and I mean ALWAYS confirm a zero with any load before shooting across the chronograph, especially when testing loads and/or switching to another load. A "shot" chronograph or screens will almost always be the end result if you don't.

Larry Gibson

[44man]

Always with handguns, and I mean ALWAYS confirm a zero with any load before shooting across the chronograph, especially when testing loads and/or switching to another load. A "shot" chronograph or screens will almost always be the end result if you don't.

Larry Gibson
True and watch who you let shoot across it too. My neighbor would have flinched the thing to pieces even with a perfect zero! :bigsmyl2:

[subsonic]

I learned the hard way. I would have told others the same thing. I rationalized that at 10ft from a rest, sighting 2" above the sensors, I'd be fine. I now know otherwise!:oops:

[tek4260]

On the bright side, the sky is the limit on how fast you can say those heavies are running now that you don't have a chronograph!

[subsonic]

On the bright side, the sky is the limit on how fast you can say those heavies are running now that you don't have a chronograph!

LOl!

Already looking at new Chronographs.... definitely going to stay with the cheapies!

:lol:

[Frank]

I need to get my older PACT out got new loads to try. Problem has been too much sunlight. Can't get a reading until later in the day. Some one on another thread suggested to angle the sensors.

[Larry Gibson]

Problem has been too much sunlight.

Wish I had that problem......it's been a long winter..........

Larry Gibson

[tek4260]

I then chroned Mellonhead's load and boolits in the BFR. They were loaded with a 400gr sensible Keith he deisned at Mtn Moulds. Cast of ACWW, sized .476" and lubed with LBT Blue, they were loaded over 14gr of HS6 with a CCI 300 and I also tried my own concoction of 26gr of H110 with a CCI 350.

HS6 -> 1141, 1148, 1121, 1135, 1128 (very consistent IMHO!) and they also grouped into a short vertical string under an inch at 25yds and made a well distributed cluster at 50yds that measured about 2", with 3 of 5 touching in a line.

H110-> 1402, 1389, 1397, 1376, 1374 and leaded. Groupings started good (all shots touching @ 25yds) and then opened up as lead built up.


On a side note, if you have some more of his boolits now would be a good time to take some of the sized and lubed ones and give them a tumble in Alox to see if it does away with the leading.

[Frank]

tek4260:

On a side note, if you have some more of his boolits now would be a good time to take some of the sized and lubed ones and give them a tumble in Alox to see if it does away with the leading.
Yeah, right. If he's got leading with LBT lube, Alox is going to come to the rescue. Who are you fooling? :?

[subsonic]

On a side note, if you have some more of his boolits now would be a good time to take some of the sized and lubed ones and give them a tumble in Alox to see if it does away with the leading.

I think I'm just pushing them too hard for ACWW with that load. But I will try it anyway. I only have a few, and they did not lead much for the first cylinder, so I may not have enough to reach a good conclusion. I also had considered oven heat treating them.

[subsonic]

My G20 stopped leading when I TLd some store bought boolits. But accuracy sucked. The crayon lube on them was horrible and they were too soft and undersized. But the LLA did prevent leading, BION.

[.357MAN]

Problem has been too much sunlight.

Wish I had that problem......it's been a long winter..........

Larry Gibson

Boy! You aren't kidding. :groner:

[mellonhead]

If you want to try more just let me know. I can cast you up some and water drop them or just send you more and you could heat treat them in the oven. Just let me know. I was planning on sending you some of these .500 out of the MM anyway.

Toby

[Frank]

subsonic:

The crayon lube on them was horrible
What lube is that? Tell us so we can watch out for it. :confused:

[tek4260]

tek4260:

Yeah, right. If he's got leading with LBT lube, Alox is going to come to the rescue. Who are you fooling? :?



So you don't thing a coating of Alox in addition to the LBT might be just enough to stop the leading? I know it cured my leading in a 45 when I went from 22 to 24gr of H110 under a 310gr boolit.

[44man]

I never get leading with Felix lube. :mrgreen:

[Frank]

tek4260:

So you don't thing a coating of Alox in addition to the LBT might be just enough to stop the leading? I know it cured my leading in a 45 when I went from 22 to 24gr of H110 under a 310gr boolit.
I don't get leading, but if I do I'll try it out. I have enough bottles of the stuff from ordering sizers. Thanks.

[Frank]

44man:

I never get leading with Felix lube. :mrgreen:
You don't push anything that fast. How does Felix lube handle 2400+ fps? Does it work in a lube sizer? :coffeecom

[thegreatdane]

Another chrony bites the dust. :)

[subsonic]

subsonic:

What lube is that? Tell us so we can watch out for it. :confused:

Some red wax that was put on by a company that went out of business long before I picked up 1000 of those boolits on clearance for $5.

No idea what it is, but it's bad. And so are the boolits. Someday I may start putting a few in my melt at a time, just to use them up. They are about 12bnh.

I have put a few in hot watter to melt the lube off and hand lubed them with LBT Blue. They were still terrible. I could heat treat them in the oven. I just don't know how to make them bigger... I thought about bumping them in the lubrisizer, but don't have a .403" sizer die and nose punch.

[tek4260]

Are you getting a ring of lube left on the mouth of the case after firing?

[subsonic]

Are you getting a ring of lube left on the mouth of the case after firing?

This thread has drifted... not that it was ever very focused.

Which gun/case are you asking about?

The .475, .357, or 10mm?

Yes
No
No
:drinks::lol:

[subsonic]

If you want to try more just let me know. I can cast you up some and water drop them or just send you more and you could heat treat them in the oven. Just let me know. I was planning on sending you some of these .500 out of the MM anyway.

Toby

I'll take a few of the new .500s, but no need to send more .475s. I have too many things to try right now anyway. I will send you some of the 44man close-copy boolits when I start casting. I want to send some to Jim, Thomas and to you. I need to go round up more wheelweights! The 400gr+ things eat WW like they're going out of style. I need to catch them when I shoot them.

[tek4260]

This thread has drifted... not that it was ever very focused.

Which gun/case are you asking about?

The .475, .357, or 10mm?

Yes
No
No
:drinks::lol:



Sounds like the 475 is needing a harder boolit. I used to water drop everything, but then I got into the Mihec HP's and water dropping seemed counterproductive to the HP. Of course I got leading as a result of the softer alloy, or at least a partial result since I also started stepping up the loads.

The worst culprit was the 45 and adding the Alox stopped the leading without me having to water drop.

[Frank]

tek4260:

The worst culprit was the 45 and adding the Alox stopped the leading without me having to water drop.
Were you as difficult during your baptism? Or maybe you are allergic to holy water. [smilie=p:

[44man]

44man:

You don't push anything that fast. How does Felix lube handle 2400+ fps? Does it work in a lube sizer? :coffeecom
Since I only hunt with revolvers I have only gone to 1800 fps during testing.
LLA always opens groups and gives me leading.
Now you need to remember that I don't really size much and my boolits have Felix all over the boolit, never clean lead drive bands with just lube in the grooves. It is like a LLA coating but does not burn in the bore.
No matter the lube, I hate a clean dry boolit with just a hard lube in the grooves and bare lead for the rest.
My boolits in a box are a big, sticky mess but it will never be LLA.
My seat die needs cleaned often. I really do make a mess and even the press handle is full of Felix lube.
Will it take 2400 fps? No idea but I would not count it out without a test.
Felix works fine in a lube sizer but I do not like it anyway. I prefer over size Lee dies and a mess. You would not believe the lube donuts I get as the die removes excess lube. The donuts slip loose over the punch now and then. But my boolits do have a full coating of Felix to the point I need to use my thumb nail to clean the nose. I wipe the bases on a rag.
Guys say LLA over the hard lube helps and maybe it does but the hard lube just in the grooves is the problem. Use Felix instead and keeping it all over the boolit is better.

[Frank]

44man:

I hate a clean dry boolit with just a hard lube in the grooves and bare lead for the rest.
Who likes that? Your ideas are good. I enjoy the lubesizer, except for that spindle on the top. The little ball comes loose and it rolled on the garage floor under the floor jack. Homemade lube is fun until you have to clean everything up. I also got away from sizing with dish soap. Water and reloading presses and dies don't mix. I have Lee dies that are rusted away. I also got tired of having to clean and relube them. The lubesizer removed all the extra fuss.

[Frank]

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=5233

Clean, shaven and mustered to quarters.

[tek4260]

tek4260:

Were you as difficult during your baptism? Or maybe you are allergic to holy water. [smilie=p:



If we all weren't a bit difficult we would buy store bought ammo and sit around with a dumb grin..... :)

[Frank]

Nobody liked my bullets. Oh, darn. :-?

[subsonic]

They'd be sexy, except they don't have a crimp groove.

[Frank]

subsonic:

They'd be sexy, except they don't have a crimp groove.
Maybe if I push it to 1850 out of the revolver, I just might see a little movement. Then I can use the Lee FC die to adjust. Otherwise, I see no movement in the revolver, and I certainly don't have to worry about the lever action.

[Frank]

They're all crimped like the first one. The other ones look like the first.
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=5236

[subsonic]

Is that a taper crimp? Or are you just rolling the bell away?

[subsonic]

Unless you have a case-full of powder (ala black powder) in the lever gun, you should watch for boolit setback.

[Frank]

The case is full of powder and Dacron. But it has good tension too. I use an RCBS sizer which gives good tension. If you look at the rounds you see a slight bulge in the middle, the snake effect. That bulge is resisting the bullet going in deeper. Even if it somehow went all the way in like a WC it would still work.

With that kind of tension, lube grooves are clearly visible on the sides, the bullet isn't coming out. And even if it came out, the long cylinder of the BFR would contain it. The crimp was with the Lee FC die. I like to adjust crimp dies 2 turns in from contact. This is done to get a precise feel with the handle. Every crimp is the same regardless of case length. There is no camming over.

The case is in contact with lead 100% and under tension and no crimp that has to open up. The very top is actually .0005" wider than the middle at the bullet.

Wow, reading that is like gulping like a snake. :coffeecom

[Larry Gibson]

subsonic

I've dealt with commercial cast before (probably will again) that had bad hard wax lube that didn't work. If you've enough of the bullets you might soak them in a coffee can or other such in white gas or Coleman Fuel for 45 minutes or so. Swishing the fuel around will pretty much wash most of the wax lube off the bullets. After draining as much of the fuel off as possible I pour them onto an old bath towel and let dry. I then relube with a good lube like Javelina in a 450 lubrasizer. If you don't have a lubrasizer a couple good applications of straight LLA also works for me.

Larry Gibson