Teach Me! WW Alloy or what?

[Revolver]

I just cast my first boolits recently at a friends house from WW and loaded them up for 38 special. I have an RCBS Pro-Melt on its way compliments of Cabelas and want to start using it as soon as it arrives... need to get my ducks in a row.

I think that straight up WW alloy will probably be fine for my 45ACP, 38 Special, and maybe 357 magnum boolits but what should I do about 44 magnum and 445 supermagnum? Do I need a harder alloy?

As far as what I have on hand to work with...

-Lots of WW
-Isocore lead
-Roof flashing lead
-Pewter (My wife finds it for me at thrift stores)
-Small amount of 63/37 solder

Suggestions, PLEASE! (and thanks!) :cbpour:

[Larry Gibson]

You can stretch your WWs by adding 2% tin (the solder and pewter will do here) and then mixing at 50% with lead The isocore and roof flashing will do nicely here). That alloy will work very well for the majority of 45 ACP, 38 SPL, .357 and 44 magnum loads.....depending on the cast bullet designs.

WWs +2% tin and AC'd will do very well for the top end 357, 44 and 445 supermagnum loads.

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

the big isotope cores are 1/3/96, and the little ones are 2.5/2.5/95.
i mix ww's 3 to one part soft whatever and maybe some tin. [bout the same as larry's mix]
for everything you have there.

i do use a gas check on my 445 boolits though, or the ones i swage from 40S&W brass.
it is full on speed in that one though.
the swaged ones are for bear protection, almost a round nosed wad cutter shape.
but the ww's and whatever will work fine.
decent fit and a good lube will carry you a lot further along than hardness.
some alloys are better suited for things like hunting or extreme velocity, but regular loads even in the magnums will do fine with regular ww alloy.

[Bret4207]

You don't need HARDER! Forget the advertising hype first off, that's all it is. FIT IS KING. Bhn is a tool to be used down the line if you have an issue, but first learn to make as close to perfect boolits as you can that FIT your gun.

[badgeredd]

With the ever decreasing supply of WW lead, I stretch my supply by alloying purish lead to my mix. As everyone so far has said, fit is the primary consideration and will do more for accuracy and clean, lead free barrels in hand guns that any other single part of this casting hobby. Another benefit to using a softer alloy is it will slug up better and seal better. The third advantage of adding a softer lead to WW comes in the terminal ballistics. I have only one hand gun (excluding my Contender) that I don't use air cooled 50/50 WW/pure alloy in. In it I use and alloy 0f 20/80 WW/pure and get good accuracy and no leading.

Edd

[Revolver]

...You don't need HARDER! Forget the advertising hype first off, that's all it is. FIT IS KING...


...As everyone so far has said, fit is the primary consideration...

I guess I need to find a few lead balls somewhere and slug my barrels then! I was watching some videos on youtube and the guy said WW are good up to 1200fps, that's why I was thinking the 445 might need something different.

As always, thanks for steering me in the right direction.

[JohnFM]

When I got tired of paying the relatively high costs for commercial cast and decided it was high time to start making my own I got really confused over this hardness issue. Still am!
I know and understand somewhat what has been written about the subject, but still have a hard time getting my old brain to accept it.

So, now I have a little pile of bullets waiting to be loaded. I can scratch them with a thumbnail, much softer than anything I've ever used before.
These will be used in a 357 and it will be really interesting to see what happens as I work up a load for them.

[Rangefinder]

I was watching some videos on youtube and the guy said WW are good up to 1200fps

I wouldn't say that was your first mistake, but it is up in the top-5. ;) YES--FIT IS KING. Start there and work the other issues as they present. I shoot full-house 357 loads through my black hawk upwards of 1400fps (or darn close to it) and still only use the same 50-50 blend with just a little tin sweetener for the HP's.


I know and understand somewhat what has been written about the subject, but still have a hard time getting my old brain to accept it.

John, something to consider here--it's not ALL about hardness. Shooting a bullet that is too soft in a rifle will likely cause leading as is strips out on the lands. Shooting a bullet of the same hardness at the same pressures in a handgun will likely give you a great performance. The difference is in twist rate in this aspect. Longer twist rate of handguns is more compatible with softer alloy so long as the fit is correct and the lube used is adequate.

[ku4hx]

Have you shot any of your cast boolits? Yeah, for sure you need to slug your bore and and start out .001" over bore diameter, but mostly you need to send some of those pellets down range and see how they do.

If you have leading or smoky cases or poor accuracy you can deal with them as they arise. If they arise.

[JohnFM]

Thanks Rangefinder. Yeah, this will be fun.
It's been a while since I've had something I really want to spend some time with carefully developing a load for.
Well, I'm still working on a fairly new to me Swift, but that's a different kinda critter.

[MtGun44]

"wwts are good up to 1200 fps"

IME, 8 BHN - much softer than wwts with no GC, is fine up to 1400 or so, max vel
in .44 Mag and .357 mag with a good boolit design, good fit (believe Bret!) and
a good lube.

Commercial sellers are always touting their "hard cast" for pistol and when the fit is
wrong, hard is much worse than soft. When the fit is right, and you have a good design
and lube, pretty soft alloys work very well.

The issue is that harder is typically either extra work heat treating or extra cost in the
alloying ingredients, and usually is not necessary in pistols.

Bill

[runfiverun]

the swift is a sweet heart with cast too.
i have been working with the 223/22-250/and the swift a little bit recently.
and have gotten all three over 2700 fps with little problem.
just last night i swaged and hollowpointed some cast boolits for them[need to do the final sizing]
yeah swaged, it softens the boolits quite a bit.
but i am reforming the nose shape for a better throat fit [more accuracy] and a longer bearing surface.
i will use the swift as a walking rifle for rock chucks as the other two are just too heavy for this.
i give up the lazer like velocity for waaay longer bbl life and hits are positive out to 200 yds.
that's all i really need for rock chucks and such anyways.
the flat nosed ones [swaged in] will do the job on coyotes and such easily enough, but i will see if the hollow point helps accuracy or not.
it will definately be explosive.

[Blammer]

I shoot my 44mag with WW air cooled alloy at 1350 fps with no leading.

plain base boolits too. :)

[JohnFM]

:mrgreen: When I told an old shooting buddy I was going to give casting a try, first thing he said was, "you gonna try some in that Swift?" :)
I can see it coming, but not for a while.
Most of us reprobates around here been reloading for 50 or more years, so the BS sessions get pretty deep!

[Bret4207]

I guess I need to find a few lead balls somewhere and slug my barrels then! I was watching some videos on youtube and the guy said WW are good up to 1200fps, that's why I was thinking the 445 might need something different.

As always, thanks for steering me in the right direction.

I've taken straight WW with just a little tin added over 2K fps. FIT 1st, everything else is way down the list.

[Revolver]

Not that it really matters but this is the video I was watching... specifically at the 3:10 mark.

Also, I also noticed he's putting raw WW straight into his pot, I wonder if that makes a mess or fumes indoors. He looks like he is quite experienced though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKn37F5Lw74

[Hardcast416taylor]

Junker, I actually wish you lived nearer to me here in Mi. At least then I could better show you what we are talking about here better as far as blending WW with softish pure lead with a touch of tin added for better fill out. WW by itself will fulfill everything you will probably ever need for a hard enough alloy in a handgun. I mix 50/50 WW/pure leads for my AC alloy. I use this alloy for a good deal of my rifle boolet casting also. For the present try a 50/50 alloy and see what the results are. If not satisfied then raise the WW amount in the pot and back off the pure. Let the cast boolets sit for 4 or 5 days to finish the metallurgical action happening with the alloy. After this time you can size and lube them. In other words you need to experiment with alloys to fit YOUR needs and not what some other person is using with his .455 Superboomer handgun.Robert

[monge]

Im also new to casting the one thing i can tell you is to slug your barrels and size I use lee sizers you can custom fit them on a lathe or drill press just take your time and go slow with fine wet dry paper. That is key to accuacy and no leading!

[GLL]

The man in the video has a very nice looking shop and a great selection of equipment BUT I would NEVER put raw WW in a Pro-Melt !

Jerry

[badgeredd]

junker,

One thing that needs to be mentioned here about fit, in revolvers the barrel is only 1/2 of the fit question. Several years ago Bret4207 advised me on loading for a 38 S&W. My cylinder has the normal (for the cartridge) .360" throats but my barrel slugs at .357". The boolit has to fit both if you're going to get good performance. I sized my boolits to fit the cylinder and I use a softer alloy so it will seal the bore and cylinder without undue stress on the firearm. AND I get good accuracy with no leading. Fit is king, always.

Edd