Doing The Kieth

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well I'm about to start my quest to emulate the late Elmer Kieth .I put my toyota in 4wd and just drove over the snow avalanche ( just couldn't stand waiting any more) to set up my range in the forest service clearing. Got it marked off in 50 yd. interviles out to 350 yds.
Will start at 50 & 100 yds this sat. w/ 38's .

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well I went up onto Squaw peak set up the smallest plate at 50 yds., the 2nd smallest at 100yds. Shot 38's at the 50 yd. plate ,best I got was 5 hits out of 6 for 50 rounds . But the avg. was probibly only 3 out of 6, embarassing.
Shot at the 100yd plate w/ my 7mm/06 to let the Ruger cool, same story best I got was 5 of 6, but ave. was also about 3 of 6,for 50 rounds, also embarassing.
Boy do I need practice. Boy do I have a long way to go to get like Kieth!

[9.3X62AL]

As an addicted and habitual engager of metal reaction targets, I fully understand your drive to hit them with frequency and repetition. Once in a while, I can do so successfully. Iron sights and target definition are GREATLY affected by lighting angles, so try to use differings times of day and sun angles to your advantage.

[BruceB]

Living for many years in the Far North, we were blessed with thousands of lakes FAR from any form of vehicle access except snowmobiles in the winter. ATVs, dune buggys, motorcycles, even boats.....nope. The topography simply prohibited it. Even canoes were tough to get into a lot of our favorite fishing holes, by paddling, due to extreme white-water and no portages. We tied our 19-foot square-stern freighter on the outside of a lot of airplanes, and flew it in with us. Five gallons of gas would give us literally days of trolling with the 6hp Evinrude.

So...we flew in, as I said. Charter an airplane to drop us off fifty or a hundred miles from any road, with an appointment to (hopefully!) pick us up in a few days or a week (if the pilot was sober and also remembered the trip). We'd always do a circuit or two around the chosen lake to ensure nobody else had decided to get dropped off there, then land and set up camp.

Even though this was in anal-retentive Canada, we felt quite secure in illegally hauling along a BUNCH of guns and ammo. Elmer Keith was a large part of my inspiration too, and you would be flat amazed at how accurately a .44 Magnum revolver can land cast bullets at 1200 or 1400 yards across the lake, shooting at isolated rocks sticking out of the water. (We used maps to roughly determine the distance.) It wasn't uncommon to shoot-up 500 or 1000 rounds on a fishing trip. Seems like we always took several .50-caliber cans full of peestol fodder with us. Then, there were the occasions when we had enough mil-surp ammo to make it worth hauling one of the machineguns along...!

Most of our "Keith-style" shooting was done at closer ranges, maybe 400-800 yards, but it sure is fun to shoot over water when you KNOW that it's safe to do so. Instant gratification (or jeers)!

Here in Nevada such entertainment is impossible, but there are many remote locations where we can shoot hillside to hillside at rocks, bushes, bunchgrass etc etc. I hope to get curmudgeon out to such a place with his Whelen, next time he comes over. Relatively few people have ANY IDEA about the true capabilities of a heavy-caliber revolver, but it sure is eye-opning when they find out.

[Pop_No_Kick]

Living for many years in the Far North, we were blessed with thousands of lakes FAR from any form of vehicle access except snowmobiles in the winter. ATVs, dune buggys, motorcycles, even boats.....nope. The topography simply prohibited it. Even canoes were tough to get into a lot of our favorite fishing holes, by paddling, due to extreme white-water and no portages. We tied our 19-foot square-stern freighter on the outside of a lot of airplanes, and flew it in with us. Five gallons of gas would give us literally days of trolling with the 6hp Evinrude.

So...we flew in, as I said. Charter an airplane to drop us off fifty or a hundred miles from any road, with an appointment to (hopefully!) pick us up in a few days or a week (if the pilot was sober and also remembered the trip). We'd always do a circuit or two around the chosen lake to ensure nobody else had decided to get dropped off there, then land and set up camp.

Even though this was in anal-retentive Canada, we felt quite secure in illegally hauling along a BUNCH of guns and ammo. Elmer Keith was a large part of my inspiration too, and you would be flat amazed at how accurately a .44 Magnum revolver can land cast bullets at 1200 or 1400 yards across the lake, shooting at isolated rocks sticking out of the water. (We used maps to roughly determine the distance.) It wasn't uncommon to shoot-up 500 or 1000 rounds on a fishing trip. Seems like we always took several .50-caliber cans full of peestol fodder with us. Then, there were the occasions when we had enough mil-surp ammo to make it worth hauling one of the machineguns along...!

Most of our "Keith-style" shooting was done at closer ranges, maybe 400-800 yards, but it sure is fun to shoot over water when you KNOW that it's safe to do so. Instant gratification (or jeers)!

Here in Nevada such entertainment is impossible, but there are many remote locations where we can shoot hillside to hillside at rocks, bushes, bunchgrass etc etc. I hope to get curmudgeon out to such a place with his Whelen, next time he comes over. Relatively few people have ANY IDEA about the true capabilities of a heavy-caliber revolver, but it sure is eye-opning when they find out.
Ok I'm Jelous..
Chuck..

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well I talked my dauter Val to go w/ me this A.M. She took her S&W MOD 27. I borrowed Pam' s Ruger & took the 7mm/06 along as it was wimpering in the corner.
Val's best was 4 hits out of 6 rounds, w/ an avg. of about 3 of 5, on the 50 yd plate, for 50 rounds.
My effort was nothing to brag about but at least the hills were ringing to the sound of music some. Best I got was 5 of 6 w/ the Ruger 357 using hot 38s, the ave was sadly about 3 of 6, for 50 rounds.
The 7mm/06 did the same on the 100 yd plate. How depressing!
So I then tried 50 more rounds w/ the 357 on the 100 yd plate. Best I got was 4 of 6, w/ an ave of only 2 hits for 6 rounds, out of that box of 50.
Boy do I got a long ways to go! I am way out of practice!

[nighthunter]

How big is the plate? Might help us understand a little more.

[TCLouis]

BruceB
Oh how right you are.

Oh so many years ago a buddy and I used to have a place where we could see a long LONG way.
Our game was, one shooter would spot a rock of varying size and distance and shoot at it. When it was hit, the one that hit it started off on another rock. It was a great way to spend an afternoon and most of the shooting was from 200 yards out.

That is why Keith's shooting was not muych of a stretch for me to believe. After all many days I reckon he got to practice a lot.

I know that old flat top 44 and 429215 would reach out and HIT.

MY Redhawk and Super Redhawk will too!

[lar45]

After a cowboy match one day, some guys brought out there single shot 45-70s and started banging away at a steel buffalo target about 300-350yds away. They were pretty exicted when they got a hit.
I had extra ammo for my 45 Blackhawk, so I sat down with my back against one of the posts, rested forearms on knees and started guestimating front sight hold. When I got the right amount of front sight figured out, I was hitting pretty consistently. Which was much more than the 45-70 rifle guys!

I read one article about Kieth's front sights and how he had gold bars inlaid so he could use those for more precise elevation alignments.
I've always thought about doing that, just never got around to it. I did get a gold inlay kit from Brownells, but it's still new in the box after about 8 years. Maybe I should see if it's still good.

[lar45]

Boy do I got a long ways to go! I am way out of practice!

Boom Boom, sounds like you need a new 8lb jug of WC820, a bucket a WW and a 6 gang mold.
sounds like an excellent project for the summer!
The first thing I would do is to bench rest the gun and make sure that you have an accurate load to start with.
It's much more fun with accurate ammo.

For xmas, I got my 17yo son a 45 Blackhawk. We were blasting clay pidgeons off the 100 yd berm with Win 225 silvertips. Then we switched to a thrown together handload and couldn't hit anything even at 25 yds. It wasn't even fun to blast off the rest of the ammo, cause we didn't know if we could hit anything but the ground.

Have fun. Let us know how it goes.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well went steel bangng today, saw a moose & 5 wild turkeys in the National forest clearing on Squaw Peak above Provo.
Anyway the 50 yd plate is 15" H X 10" W. The 100yd plate is 13"X13''.
Today I avg 4 hits in 6 shots w/ both the pistol & rifle. Rased the sights 7&1/2 " on to rifle. still haven't beat the 5 of 6 best w/ eather gun. BLAH!
Also saw a rattler , OH YEAH !

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Went up to shoot this A.M. , saw 6 wild turkeys , a doe & a spotted fawn. Clocked the fawn at 25 mph on the road for a ways. I have clocked deer at 30 mph, moose at 30+, & wild turkeys at 30 mph on the road running ahead of my truck.
HU-RAH! Finally got a 6 out of 6 w/ the 357 on the 50 yd plate.
Still at a best of 5 out of 6 on the 100yd plate w/ the rifle.
Today I had a wild turkey walk up to my marker for the 150yd plate (I'll set it up when I get better).
My ave is 66% still w/ both guns. BLAH!

[lar45]

Hi again, a thought here might be to put a small aiming dot on the plate. Try aiming for a small spot instead of the whole plate. It may help things.
To practice aiming small, try setting up some empty shotgun shells and aim at those. Start at 15-20 yards and move out till you can't see them anymore.
The same thing will work for deer hunting, aim for a tuft of fur in the right spot and not the whole deer.
I've shot a Mulie with my fixed sighted Saur 357 at 80 yds off hand.
One shot behind the sholder was all it took. The bullet went in, took out both lungs and ended up in the offside sholder still weighing it's original 110 gns. The Deer went about 40 yds max and was dead leaning against a tree.
You don't need a 50 Alaskan to kill a Deer, just put the bullet in the right spot.

Have fun.
Glenn.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well went shooten steel agien today. Only saw a yearling muly on road today.
I have painted a 3" phosporesent pink circle on both plates.
Got some 6 out of 6s today w/ the wifes 357 shooting a diff. load of Pb-5grs. in long loaded 38 cases under a 160gr bullet. CHOSE THAT LOAD BECAUSE IT DOESN'T LEAD. Ave w/ the pistol at 50yds. was 74% or 37 hits/ 50 rounds. Sights are set so I aim at base of plate where it touches the ground under the dot. I'm getting slowly better W the pistol.
With the rifle I didn't do so good today at 100yds. 21 hits for sure out of 50 rounds. A miserable 42%.BLAH! Moved sights 3" to right, before shooting. Maybe I better move them back.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well went shooten steel at 7A.M. by about 8AM I was set up. Put out 7 logs as range markers, by the rocks & cardboard, at each 50 yd intervile to 350yds. Saw a doe & 2 spotted fawns on the road. Today I had a bird set on the 100yd plate while I was shooting at it.
Got 42 hits out of 50, w/ the 357 at 50yds. 84% is a difinate improvement.
W/ THE 7MM/06 at 100yds I only got 39 hits out of 50. 78% oh well!
1 more time & I may move the targets out another 50yds. And change to mid vel loads in the 7MM/06.

[9.3X62AL]

Boom x 2--

There are no flies on those performances, sir. Be careful--long range plinking at reaction targets is positively addicting. The re-introduction of the 200 meter clanger at my home range has caused my ammo consumption to spike upward and stay there.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
THANKS FOR THE FEEDBACK! If you guys think I'm doing ok it means something.
Got up at 7AM. On the drive up to the range I saw my 1st buck of the summer, a 3 point.
Was at the clearing by 7:30 & did some range inprovement work till the sun was hitting the 50yd. plate.
Sat down wiped the sweat off & setteled for some fun trying to emulate Elmer.
With the wifes single action 357 I got 45 out of 50 for a 90%. Oh-yeah!
With the 7MM/06 I got 35 out of 40, for 87.5%.
I'm moving the 50 yd plate to 100yds & the 100 yd rifle plate to 150yds.

[lar45]

Sounds like your getting into the groove. You might try putting a fresh coat of spray paint on your target to see where your hitting at, it may help to adjust your hold. You might be shooting great groups 2" to low for a hit?

I think you'll be ready come Deer season.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Thanks for the feedback lar45 & Dep. AL. Well got up today at 7AM & drove up Squaw Peak saw 2 does on the way up. Yesterday I saw a nice 3 point in the velvet. Wish he would walk in front of my muzzel loader come Oct. at a short range. I think the F.&G. e-mail all the elk & deer the day before the opening as the deer/elk seem to know when to hide out.
Well I did about another hr. of range improvement before to sun was hitting both the 100 yd pistol & the 150 yd rifle target plates. Then I sat down wiped off the sweat & started to shoot. Right away I knew I was going to like my new 7mm/06 mid vel load W/ IMR4198. at 150 yds I got 46 hits out of 50, for a 92%. OH YEAH! I did not even have to adjust my sights!
With the wifes 357 it was dismal, I thought I'd have to adjust my hold so that led to some early misses. I only got 27 hits of 50. BLAH! Only 54%. This will take some work.
THE new 7mm/06 load is dimpeling the plate alot more as they are the slush quenched WW. But they are only going about 300'/s faster than my squib loads.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well went shooting at steel, drove up, did some more range improvement & then setteled in to shoot.
As I started shooting the 7MM/06 at the 150yd plate a buck muley spooked out from a grove of rocky mt. maple & scrub oak just behind the plate. Today I only got 40 hits of 50, for an 80%. RATS!
With the wifes 357 I only got 21 hits of 50, for a lousey 42%. BLAGH!
Invited my friends Ted & Mike to come, boy am I glad they coundn't come to see this lousey preformance.
Mike has a 357, Ted said he 'd like to try out his 454 casull. The 454 might tear the plate I hall out to 100yds for the 357 I'm afraid as it hits 2x's as hard as a 44 mag if I remember right.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Did my shooting, saw another doe today, yesterday I also saw 2 w. turkeys. Got up to about 30' to one.
Well w/ the 357 I got 25 hits out of 50, for 50% at 100yds. discovered I was shooting a little low & started aiming for the middle of the plate. Don't think I better move it out for yet. Probibly should wait tell I get about 80+% hits. Whats normal hit rate at 100yds. ?
With the 7mm/06 at 150yds ,I got 43 hits for a 86%, also discovered I need to move my sights about 3" right.
If that's a pretty good score I'm thinking I'll move that plate to 200yds. It's 13"x13", & is getting dimpled alot by the slush quenched WW bullets.
What do you guys think should I move it or leave it at 150 till I'm in the 90% hits range.

[carpetman]

BoomBoom--You ask what is normal hit rate for 100 yards? Well for Starmetal he puts em all in one hole. I'll not ask is he normal.

[Scrounger]

BoomBoom--You ask what is normal hit rate for 100 yards? Well for Starmetal he puts em all in one hole. I'll not ask is he normal.

And let us add that the CarpetMan never misses a cat at that distance...

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well let me reword that, FOR US ONLY HUMAN TYPES, I'm pretty sure I shouldn"t move the 100 yd pistol target. But is a 80+% avg. pretty good at 150. Or should I wait till I'm hitting in the 90% range w/ the rifle at150?

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Went shooting today, saw 4 w. turkeys, 5 deer(1 was a 2 point in the velvet),a mole, squirrals, & a norway rat.
Well after a bit of range improvement (moving boulders) I started stooting. The steel plates were still in the shade & my 1st 7 shots w the 7mm/06 were w/out my glasses on. But I got 46/50 w/ the rifle at 150 yds for a 92%.
With the 357 w/ 38s I managed 26/50 for 52% BLAH!
I think I'll move the rifle plate out to 200 next time.

[BOOM BOOM]

Hi,
Went Shooting Today. Moved Boulders To Be Range Markers & Set On Steel Plates Legs To Hold Them In Place For About An Hr. Then Settedled In To Shoot. It Was Cloudy .
At 200yds W/ The Heavy 13"x13" Plate I Only Got 36/50, For A 72% Blah!
With The 38's At The 100yd Lighter Plate I Only Got 20/50, 40% Horrible.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Went shooting today , saw 1 doe, & did boulder moving .
With the rifle ay 200yds I got 45/50, for a 90%. HU-RAH! BEST I'VE EVER DONE W/ Pb bullets.
W/ the 38's at 100yds I got 20/50. embarassing 40%

[7br]

A few years back, I wandered out to the range. A couple of guys were sighting in deer rifles and had gallon milk jugs full of water at the hundred yard line. I asked if they cared if I took a poke at them with my Dan Wesson .41. First shot from a standing position sent a jug flying. I put the pistol back in the case and said that was good enough. Naturally, I didn't have the sense to leave it cased and it took me 6 more shots to hit another.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Went shooten steel today, saw 7 w. turkeys. Did my usual range improving , carring buolders to positions of range markers for every 50 yds.
Thanks for the reply 7br. your story remindes me of 1 of my dad's. He was an army col. w/ his unit out at the range. Everyone was getting cross training on diff. weapons. 50 & 30 cal machine guns etc. after a short orientation my dad was invited by the range master to be the 1st to shoot the 30 cat machinegun. As he coundn't refuse he sat down squized off a short burst.The guy in the pit reported a bullseye. My dad quit, didn't shoot another round that day.
Well w/ the 38's at 100 I got 27/50 , for a 54%. BLAH!
With the rifle at 200 I got 28/41, for a lousey 68%. that was the last of my lead bullets loaded for the rifle. OH WELL.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well today I did poorly, at least in my opinion, cloudy day.
With Pam's ruger single action & 38s.
At 100yds. I only got 17/50.For 34%.
At the 150yd plate I got 14/50. For 28%. Very depressing.
I'll bet even the avg. metallic sil. shooter do better than that by far, but I don't really know for sure.

[TCLouis]

Do not remember if you posted this early on, but how accurate are the loads you are shooting. Especially the pistol, you are starting to reach on out there where "normal dispersion" of a given load may make hits a fluke. some bullets get kinda squirrely when they start slowing down. Shoot some off of a good rested position on a sheet of paper posted at those distances and see what the group looks like.
On the other hand some days one will NOT be able to hit a barn (even from inside), just one of the little slams reality hits us with!!

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
The present 38 special loads are loads I worked up for max. vel. w/ no leading. Never did any bench tests on paper w/ them. 5grs. of Pb under a 160 gr gc Kieth style from my NEI 4 cavity mold. I have 150 of them still loaded. then I'll be switching to 357s.
YOUR POINT IS VALID ANYWAY AS 150 YDS IS PRETTY FAR FOR 38 SPECIALS.
100 YDS may be a bit far for 38s even.
This load may be too hot for any revolver except the Ruger , they are too hot for my daughters N fram.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Went shooten steel today, saw 2 deer on the way up the mt.
The forest service wrecked about 16 hrs. of range improvements I had made over the last mo. or so. Took out all the cardboard I had set out to sit on. Took out all the cardboard I had set out to keep the grass down in front of the targets at 50,100,150,200,250,300,350yds. Took all the logs I had carried/draged to be sat on & as range markers. That sucks!
Well at 100yds w/ the hot 38s I got 33/50, for a 66%, best yet at that range. Even got my 1st 6/6.
At 150 w/ the hot 38's I got 27/50, for a 54%, best yet w/ Pam's pistol.
As I have to go back to teaching at the end of Aug. I fear I my not make it out to 350.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well went to shoot some acc. test loads in the 7mm/06 at Prpvo gun club range & also shot off last of the loaded 38s at 100yds. Got 29/50, for a 58%.
I'm wondering if this is about ave. hit rate at this range for newer sil. shooters using a 357 & shooting from a sitting position?

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Went shooting today at what i'm going to call gunner's croft range.
Saw 3 w. turkeys.
Well w/ the 357 & actually shooting 357s 6gr of Pb under 160gr gc Kieth style bullet at 100yds I got 38/50, for 76%.Got another6/6.
At 150 I got a 28/50, for 56% hits.
As time is getting short I'm going to move the 100yd plate to 200yds. & switch to my 44 Redhawlk.

[lar45]

Sure wish I could see as many turkeys as you.
Do they have an open hunt where you live? I think I'm only a couple of hours north of you. I'm in Pocatello

[TCLouis]

driving up in our driveway. There are usually a few turkeys (up to 25) lolligagging around in the driveway and yard when we get home after work.

Apparently the wild hog used one of the trees in the front yard to scratch as it is covered in mud the other night when we got home.


Get to use my game/trail cam in the yard!

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well went shooting, saw 1 w. turkey today. I live in Provo, I've been going up Provo canyon & shooting on Squaw peak in a forest service clearing.
Well at 150 yds. w/ a test load of 6grs 700X under a 250gr gc Kieth style bullet out of my Redhawk, I got 14/50, 28%. BLAH!
At 200 I got 6/50, BLAH! Used 6.6 grs Of 700X. Was going to check for leading of barrel.
W.Turkey permits are $30 for me, so I've never gone hunting them.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Went shooting, saw 5 deer on the way up to where I shoot.
The card board was gone agien & the rocks I set up as a firing line were all messed up. So after I had halled out the plates to 150 & 200 I set about 1/2 of them back in a line.
I decided to change plates so it would not be so embarassing. Didn't help I'm now using my 12" w X 17" h plates.
I shot the 200yd plate 1st w/ a load of 7.5grs 700X got 7/50, for a 14% BLAH!
I then went & drug that plate back to the truck, worked up quit a sweat.
To cool down I then reset the rest of the rocks back into the firing line.
At the 150yd plate I got 13/50, for 26% ,w/ a load of 7grs. of 700X.
Discovered I need to hold a little bit to the right.
I'M EMBAREASSED TO REPORT SUCH POOR SHOOTING!

[carpetman]

BOOM BOOM---I suspected this all along,but your 90 and 80 % hit rates left me unsure. Now that they have dropped to 14% and 26% it pretty much confirms it. You have a keyboard problem. With very little practice on the keyboard,you can easily improve the hit rate. Drop Starmetal a PM and he can fix you right up,one holers will be the norm.

[StarMetal]

Boom Boom,

You may be an accomplished typist and that might be your problem. If you look specifically at the letters o-n-e r-a-g-g-e-d h-o-l-e you'll be able to shoot much better like Carpetman said. Practice looking at these letters as you type and soon you'll be shooting one ragged hole, or at least 99 %.

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

Boom Boom--

Long range handgunning was called "a stunt" by Charles Askins, and I think the context of his remarks was referenced to hunting game animals. In that respect, I would agree with him. For the recreational aspects you are exploring, it does no harm and can provide hours of entertainment. At the range Buckshot and I infest, I do a lot of my shooting at the 200 meter dinger plates--both with rifles and with handguns. Using the short guns, the accuracy can be like second marriages--often a triumph of wishful thinking over past experience. A few of my guns can really ring those gongs, though. The Ruger 22/45 x 5.5" is scary accurate.....the S&W Model 16-4 x 6" (32 Magnum) is a 50%'er with the RCBS 98 SWC if I do my part. This is probably the most accurate revolver I've ever owned. Both Bisley Blackhawks (357 and 45) like hitting steel--a lot. The Redhawk x 44 x 5.5" shows signs of good work on the metal, too.

For those of us in southern California, the nirvana of plate shooting exists at the Angeles Shooting Club. LOTS of plates, at 35/50/75/100 yards on the pistol range and 200-700 yards on the rifle side. It's a hour+ from my house through gridlock, but worth the drive.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
The early 80-90% were w/ the rifle at 100 & 150 yds. not a big challange for me in a sitting position. THE 200 YDS SHOTS ARE HARDER W/ THE RIFLE W/ LEAD BULLETS. That 1 90% at 200yds w/ the rifle was about the best I've ever done in 36yrs of shooting.
80-90% hits at 50yds w/ a revolver should not be too hard for anyone who shoots alot. Especally for a 8&1/2" barreled revolver from a sitting position.
I changed guns to a 7 &1/2" 44, I expected a drop in hits but not by this much. Also I changed the yardage out to 150 & 200 for the pistol as I am running out of vacation time.
I would like to be able to hit well at 250yds w/ the rifle w/ lead bullets.
Frankly I'm delighted w/ the new lead projectile load I found this yr. for the 7mm/06.
But my goal this summer was to be able to hit a plate at 350yds W/ the 44 mag pistole. I've never done it before but I'm going to try.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Went shooting, saw no critters except squirrels & birds. Cloudy & got sprinkled on.
At 200yds w/ a load of 8.5grs 700X I got 7/50, UGH!
At 150 w/ a load of 8.4grs I got 14/50, BLAH!
MAN IT'S HARD TO HIT AT THIS RANGE!
I'm going to run out of loaded 44mag before I get to 350yds at this rate!

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Went shooting iron ,saw only squirrels & birds as I got a late start.
Forest service must have been up yesterday deconstrating the range.
Only thing they will leave is rocks & dead tree limbs, & sometimes they will move those, BLAH!
Well at 150 w/ a load of 8.4grs 700X I got 12/50, for a 24%.
At 200 w/ a load of 8.7grs Of 700X I got 9/50, for 18%, PATHATIC!

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Went shoting, saw 4 fawns, & 7 w. turkeys.
At 150 w/ 8.7grs 700X I got 15/50, for 30% ,YEAH!
EVEN KNOCKED THE PLATE OVER.
At 200 w/ 8.9grs. 700X I got 11/50, for 22%, YEAH I'M IN DOUBLE DIGITS!
Oh yeah I saw a rattler on the road too.

[BOOM BOOM]

Went shooting, saw 3 w. turkeys.
GOT A FLAT ON THE WAY HOME! BLAH!
AT 150 W/ A LOAD OF 8.9GRS 700X I GOT 11/50, 22%,PATHATIC &DEPRESSING AFTER YESTERDAY.
At 200 w/ same load I got 9/50, for 18%, EMBARSSING.

[44man]

Boom Boom, been reading your adventures and are enjoying them. I do have to ask one question though. How are you shooting? From sandbags, offhand, or some other position?

[TCLouis]

I still may have missed something . . .
First you are shooting loads of unknown accuracy and have NO idea what dispersion may be atributed purely to the loading even if the gun was LOCKED in a Ransom rest.
Then you are shooting them at distances that MIGHT tax loads that had proved to be accurate close up 25-50 yards.
Your ability may be much better or worse than the percentages are showing because your shooting is just one mor variable in a bunch of guesses slung downrange.

Get a 24X24 piece of cardboard and paoint a bullseye on it. Shoot at that starting at close range and moving out to your "max" distance.

That may start to reveal the true abilities of the load and your shooting ability.

Just a thought!

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Got to go shoot today, knee pain , car fixing, & Dr. app. interferred w/ truth, justice,& the american way.
My niefew a gunsmith from Prescott,Ariz. got here yest. & he went w/ me. He was sooting a 45 aurto at the 150 yd plate. And a 41 mag at the 200.
We saw 3 deer on the road.
Embarrising results. I got 9/50 at 150 yds. And 5/50 at 200yds. UGH!
To answer some questions posed.
Over the winter when I do my reloading I had loaded the 357, 44, w/ my old load of Pb powder that was at max loads that did not lead the pistols. But then I ran out of Pb powder. So following my old habit I loaded the rest in 100 round lots increasing the powder amount .2 grs at a time to find out where 700X powder would start leading in the revolvers.
After the 1st 100 rounds I fired this summer I took some time to find the accuracy loads W/ both 700X & 2400, for both pistols.
So after I get the already loaded stuff shot I'll reload w/ the new accuracy loads. Not much of the loaded 44's left.
I am shooting sitting W/ elbows resting on my knees.
The 357 is unmodified ruger single action except for a trigger job & a 8 & 1/2" P.O. Ackley barrel & open sights I put on it in a gunsmithing class I took back in the v. early 70's, before I got married & gave it to my wife.
The 44 is a redhawlk w/ a trigger job & mag-na-ported standard 7 & 1/2" ruger barrel.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Went shooting, saw 9 w. turkeys, Matt come w/ me.
On the 150 plate I got 14/50, 28%. MATT KNOCKED IT OVER W/ HIS 44. HIS LOADS ARE V. HOT!
On the 200yd plate I got 10/50, lousey 20%.
Have only 200 44mags loaded left.

[Four Fingers of Death]

HI,
Went up to shoot this A.M. , saw 6 wild turkeys , a doe & a spotted fawn. Clocked the fawn at 25 mph on the road for a ways. I have clocked deer at 30 mph, moose at 30+, & wild turkeys at 30 mph on the road running ahead of my truck.
HU-RAH! Finally got a 6 out of 6 w/ the 357 on the 50 yd plate.
Still at a best of 5 out of 6 on the 100yd plate w/ the rifle.
Today I had a wild turkey walk up to my marker for the 150yd plate (I'll set it up when I get better).
My ave is 66% still w/ both guns. BLAH!

I've yet to see one who could do 1600fps, which is about where I start my cast boolit rifle loads.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Lets see 1600'/s =96000'/min=5760000'/hr=1920000yds/hr which is ABOUT 1090mph FOR CAST BULLET SPEED. If I did my math estimates right it means 4FINGERMICK is right deer, moose, & w. turkeys can't out run bullets. Hee hee!
Went shooting today, & saw 1 deer &1 w.turkey.
Decided to move plates as I am so low on loaded 44's.
At 200yds I got 12/50 ,for 24% best yet, but still pretty sad.
At 250yds I got 5/50, for 10% hit rate, embarrising.
MAN ELMER KIETH WAS SURE ALOT BETTER THAN ME!
Next time 300& 350.

[Piglead]

I suppose some would say I'm lucky as I shoot for a living ! But after nearly40yrs I'm trying to get out of the game ! I like nothing better to get out the back of our property & really reach out with my .44mag super black hawks ! We have the local pistol & rifle club on our property & there is a steel plate 24x24 at the 200mtr range .I love getting up there when there are new shooters shooting it with rifles & hitting it 6x6 off hand (two hand grip) :grin: It really impresses em until somebody points out I've thrown about a ton of lead at them over the years!

Dave

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Went shooting , saw a 2 point buck on the way up.
Drug the 17'hX 12'w plate out to 350yds, piled rosks on the bottom leg of the L to hold it in place.
Well I managed to hit part of a rock sticking out, so for ego sake I'll say 1/50, for a sad 2% hit rate. BLAH!
Then I went & dragged the plate back to 300yds. Piled rocks on it(thank goodness the forest service didn't take/move the rocks I spent hours lugging there). Well I hit the rocks sticking out past the sides of the plate 2 X's. So for MERCEYS sake 2/50, for a 4% hit rate. BLAH!
I can sure see why the pistol sil. game stops at 200yds., if it went further it would be so depressing/frustrating that most everyone would quit.
Well school starts the 22nd, so if I get out again it will have to be w/ the wifes 357.
I'll move the plates back to 150 & 200 where it is more fun, & I get to hear music.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Borrowed the wifes 357 ruger singel six, Matt used his S&W 357 &41.
We saw 5 w. turkeys & 2 deer.
Well we set up the plate at 150, I got 17/50, for a 34%, how can it be I'm shooting better w/ my wifes pistol than my own!
I did better than Matt.
Hauling the steel plates is getting us in shape for the hunt, ie. dragging the deer out.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I took out a smaller thicker steel plate out to test to see how hard/tough the steel was. Saw 1 deer & 3 w. turkeys today.
Well at 50yds w/ the 357 I got 36/50, for a 72% hit rate.
At 100yds w/ the 357 I got 27/50, for a 54%. not as good as I was doing a mo. ago.
W/ air cooled ww 160gr bullets the plate was not even dimpled.
Will have to load up some 44s to shoot at it.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well as tom. I'm back teaching my science classes,today was my last chance. Saw 10 w. turkeys & 2 deer. The bow hunters are out now for deer.
At 250 yds. I got 6/50, 12% hit rate w/ the 357, dismall.
At 200 yds. I got 15/50, 30% hit rate, pretty sad I guess.
Forest service guys showed up just as I was finishing up, they started moving all the rocks from the shooting line I had set up. I asked why, they said they were trying to discourage shooting. I pointed out that this was still a free country & shooting was legal in a national forest. They said you have to be 150' away from an improved road. I pointed out that it was a dirt road & state law says 15', not 150'. They quit talking at that point.

[waksupi]

Boom Boom - I've enjoyed your play the last few weeks. I'm glad you got some quality trigger time in before school called you back.
You're pretty polite with the twig pigs. Around here, they may not show up for thier paycheck on Friday, and people would be wondering what ever happened to Ol' Watsis Name?

[9.3X62AL]

The USFS around here is kinda hard to read--the folks on the ground are pretty decent, but their admin types are a little flaky. In the Bishop area, the Forest Supervisor is openly and stridently anti-gun and anti-hunting--does things like sponsor hike-in events in hunting areas on opening day of deer season, harassment of hunters and shooters, yadda yadda. Agendas really are ugly things to have inflicted on you.

[44man]

Boom boom, I put 12 straight shots in a 5 gal. bucket at 400 meters with a SRH and a 240 gr XTP with 23.5 grs. of 296, Fed 150 primers. The RH likes H110 better though. I think your loads are too light for long range.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Yeah 1 of them radioed in as I was shooting for a deputy sherrif. He arrived after I had finished & was dragging my steel plate back. He asked where my gun was, I told him it was locked in my truck. We had a short conversation, I told him I was a retired peace officer myself. He ended up supporting me as having behaved legaly. FS guys left, after they had picked up & thrown into the bushes the 100 or so rocks I had assembaled into a firing line. I voiced 1 objection, but they ignored it, OH WELL.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well got to go shooting on Memorial day w/ the kid & my niefew Matt, started by settin up 2 steel plates 1 at 50yds & 1 at 100yds. 50 rounds each. v. hot 38 specials out of the ruger 357 at the 50yd. & 50 rounds out of the 7MM/06 at the 100 yd plate.
Did the same this sat.
Think I'll do all these standing up.
Will try to do better than last year, :castmine:

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
HAD a carpal tunnel done on my L. wrist. screwed my shooting for awhile.
July 6 go to Dr. if everything is ok we schedule same for R. wrist. BLAH!
This is affecting my shooting I'm having lead/steel music withdrawall .

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well got the bandages off today, FINALLY!
Next wed . the R. wrist gets cut that will really cramp my shooting ARUGGH!
Geech I haven't even finished shooting all of my loaded 38's. Not a good summer for me.
And the Elk hunt is rapidly approching! ACK!

[BOOM BOOM]

BLAH!!!
BEEN CONFINED TO 22 BLAH!
For over a week now.
Probily till Aug. ARUG!!!

[KevMT]

The USFS around here is kinda hard to read--the folks on the ground are pretty decent, but their admin types are a little flaky. In the Bishop area, the Forest Supervisor is openly and stridently anti-gun and anti-hunting--does things like sponsor hike-in events in hunting areas on opening day of deer season, harassment of hunters and shooters, yadda yadda. Agendas really are ugly things to have inflicted on you.

In my professional experiences with FS, USFW and state fish and game agencies it has become clear to me that at best, many of them "tolerate" hunting/shooting but only because of traditional pressure within the agencies (and the money it generates) which will likely lessen over time. Many (not all) of the foresters and biologists that populate these positions are nothing more than big city kids who’s only outdoor experiences were at summer camp or TV shows. They then went to college where their socialist / liberal attitudes were fed by pompous professors with no experiences. It makes my blood run cold to see so called "field biologists" who can't put on a set of tire chains in the snow or get a stuck truck out of the mud. Despite the fact that they belong to what was once considered a "masculine" profession. But it is so common now to simply be a pansy that quits and goes home when things get tough that it is almost comical. Since they don't really like to be outdoors, many do their "surveys" from the seat of a truck or not at all.

Although I think it is pretty CS for the foresters/rangers to dismantle your shooting range under false pretenses I am actually quite surprised that they would voluntarily do that much manual labor without going back to the office to bring a crew of 2 dozen people so that they wouldn't have to do more than 5 minutes of manual labor.

[fecmech]

HI,
Well got the bandages off today, FINALLY!
Next wed . the R. wrist gets cut that will really cramp my shooting ARUGGH!
Geech I haven't even finished shooting all of my loaded 38's. Not a good summer for me.
And the Elk hunt is rapidly approching! ACK!

Boom Boom--I feel your pain--I had both my wrists done at the same time back in the mid 70's. Not being the brightest bulb at the time tried my .44 mag when I thought I could handle it, NOT! I did manage to shoot the 185 gr bullets out of it though till further healing took place. Good luck to ya! Nick

[Four Fingers of Death]

I suppose some would say I'm lucky as I shoot for a living ! But after nearly40yrs I'm trying to get out of the game ! I like nothing better to get out the back of our property & really reach out with my .44mag super black hawks ! We have the local pistol & rifle club on our property & there is a steel plate 24x24 at the 200mtr range .I love getting up there when there are new shooters shooting it with rifles & hitting it 6x6 off hand (two hand grip) :grin: It really impresses em until somebody points out I've thrown about a ton of lead at them over the years!

Dave

Someone said you guys in SA have 6 fingers, I thought that they were just joshin.'
Mick.

[BOOM BOOM]

Hi,
The head ranger for the N. end of Utah. Co. is a woman who has never been in the office when I have called. She has never responded to any phone message, and I do get the impression she does not support shooting & hunting. The head office over UT. is in Denver, the supervisor there was also a woman who is also not suportive to shooting & hunting the last time I checked. The Forest Service has changed to Forest ENFORCEMENT in my opinion.
MANY new locked steel gates, MANY new boulder blocked roads, MANY new roads/trails banning 4 wheelers. BUT IT'S OK TO MOUTIAN BIKE ANYWHERE.

[Duckiller]

Angeles National Forest of late is often closed because there MAY be a fire. Historically fires burn an area every 25 yrs. Forest Supervisor ,a woman, closes the forest and various roads. I think Forest Supervisors view their forests as their private property and don't want us peons using it. 40+ years in So. Cal. and forest was never closed until this Supervisor. Like Boom Boom suggests these people are city folks. There forests are no longer places a country boy can go to have a good time.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well today as I am out of 22s, I set up an easy 50 yd range where I could almost dive the Truck up to put out 1 steel plate. Hands are not strong enough to dag a plate the 150 yds up & down the hill the forest circus demands I be off the road.
Shot 50 rounds of my EDUCATED 38 specials. All I dared to shoot W/ the L. hand which is almost 6wks. out of the 1st operation. Shot 6 rounds out of the R. hand & had to stop. RATS!!!
THIS IS SURE SCREWING UP MYSHOOTING!!!

[Four Fingers of Death]

As for setting up a range, one of the handiest things I ever bought was a cheap Ranging (I think, american, green plastic, non electronic range finder) archery range finder. Sets your distances up precisely. Mick.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI
Went shooting,saw a deer or 2 each day this wk. & wild turkeys as well.
But not as many as last year.
Lots & lots of MT. bickers , more than last yr.
Still limited to 50 rounds, BLAH!
These operations have even interfered with my jujitsu & karate practices & I have gained 15 lbs in 6 wks.
So now I have to loose the wt. before the elk hunt.
My max range w/ the L. hand seems to be 50yds. right now anyway

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well saw close to 20 wild turkeys today, 2 adults & the rest poltes. clocked them flying at about 15mph. Clocked a fawn at about 18mph, they are just loosing thier spots.
Fired 50 rounds at 50yds. L.handed, 38 educated spl. boy I am a lousey shot using L. hand & eye. Maybe I should try R. eye & L.hand, probibly couldn't hurt the hit ratio.
Hands took it OK w/out the ace bandages today, so I'll not wear them anymore.
will keep shooting L. handed untill all the 38s are empty.
:Fire:

[nighthunter]

Gotta luv them range sessions. Its kinda like quiet time with the family except better. Its time well spent and not very costly once you discover cast. ( Yeah ... Right...). Any day at the range is not wasted.
Nighthunter

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Worked yesterday on building sons 300 mag, but today got to shoot. started shooting 357s today, also mid range loads in the 7MM/06.
saw 3 deer & 1 wild turkey.
Will work on sons gun tomorrow agian.

[AZ-Stew]

Boom Boom...

I've read this entire thread and I have some suggestions. From your hit percentages, I'd say you have a couple of areas that need a little work.

First, as suggested by TCLouis, be sure you're starting with loads that have a reasonable degree of accuracy. To find out what you're working with, do some bench shooting with your guns at relatively short distances. Start at 25 yards and then check them at 5o yards. By bench shooting, I mean rest your guns on a solid sandbag rest on a solid, non-shaky shooting bench. Sit on a solid stool while you do your shooting. Be sure you rest your guns on the sandbags the same way for each shot. You want to eliminate variables in hold and sighting that come from hand-held (yes, even while resting your elbows on your knees in a sitting position) shooting positions. Be sure to hold your revolvers with your had in the same position on the grip and with the same amount of hand pressure for each shot. Keep the front face of the cylinder in front of the bags so you don't gas-cut the bags and end up peppering your face with loose sand.

As a part of your shooting technique, it's also imperative that you learn proper trigger SQUEEZE. It is impossible to shoot a handgun well if you're yanking the trigger. More on this, below.

You're using quality revolvers, so you should be able to get 1-1/2 to 2 inch groups easily at 25 yards with a good load and a good sandbag rest. The use of a paper target with a small aiming spot will help you shrink your groups and, compared to metal plates, will let you see your true group size. Tweak your loads until you can get this kind of accuracy consistently. Once you've become consistent at 25 yards, move your target out to 50 yards. You may need to adjust your sights a bit to get the groups to center on your aiming spot, and your groups will open a bit. I'd expect 2 to 4 inch groups from the average shooter at 50 yards from a sandbag rest and using an iron-sighted revolver. Don't assume you've conquered the accuracy issue if you happen to shoot one excellent group. Keep practicing until you can shoot good groups regularly. Your reports so far point to wide swings in accuracy. Good sometimes and bad others. While some minor variation can be expected, well-trained shooters produce more consistent results than you report.

Once you've settled on a reasonably accurate load for each gun and have conquered consistent grouping at 50 yards, it's time to get off the bags and start working on the shooting technique you'll use in the field. First, and most important, is your trigger squeeze. You MUST be able to let off your shots without disturbing your aim. You can practice this at home with a thoroughly unloaded gun by dry firing. Be sure you have your gun pointed in a safe direction and work on squeezing off your "shots" (remember, it's unloaded) while watching to be sure the sights don't move when the hammer falls. You can do this for hours without spending a cent for gasoline, powder, primers or bullets. While it may not satisfy your desire to hear the bang, feel the recoil and see the dust cloud or hear the clang when the bullet hits, it's very productive as far as learning long-range handgun shooting skills. It will pay off in results when you actually use live ammo at your shooting range.

It's also helpful to have another person along for some of your live-shooting practice. To be sure that you don't start flinching and yanking the trigger during your live-fire, have your partner partially load your revolver without letting you see which chambers are loaded. Have them alternate live rounds with 1, 2 or even 3 empty chambers between loaded ones. The idea is to make it random so you never know which chambers are loaded and which aren't. If you're flinching or yanking, you'll see it immediately when you drop the hammer on an empty chamber. Your sights will jump off the target and your companion will see the gun move. If you're jerking the trigger on a regular basis while practicing this technique, put the gun away, save ammo, go home and do some more dry-fire practice.

When you've mastered your trigger SQUEEZE technique and have found accurate loads for your revolvers, you can expect to begin hitting your 100 yard target plate on a regular basis. After a few years of practice, you may be able to consistently hit at 200 yards and beyond, but as I said, it's going to take more than one Summer's practice. I assure you, Elmer didn't learn his abilities in a single summer, either.

Before you begin practicing your handgun skills on deer, spend some time shooting small game, such as Jack and Cottontail rabbits until you eliminate the "live game shakies" that many of us have suffered from at one time or another. Plenty of live game practice on small game will eventually eliminate this problem.

Finally, keep in mind that your handguns, even with full-power loads are not as powerful at the muzzle as many centerfire rifle rounds are at 100 yards. Please limit your long-range handgun shooting to inanimate objects, such as rocks and steel plates so you don't wound and lose a big game animal. Know the limits of your skill and your firearms.

Regards,

Stew

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
THANK YOU FOR WELL THOUGHT OUT & CONSTRUCTIVE POST!
I do appreciate any advice.
Right now my biggest problem is having to shoot L. handed.
I also have been shooting up a big bunch of mixed lodes made up several years ago, when I was using up several kinds of powder. Have about 1000 357s to shoot up.
I think I will load the 38 specials w/ the seaco 180 gr gc( but w/out the gc, for cost reasons) & 700X.
The 357's will be loaded w/ the new last yr. 180gr w/ gc. I will standardize using WC 820. I DO HOPE TO FIND A GOOD LOAD USING STANDARD PRIMERS & A HEAVY CRIMP.
I will also use up all my old 44 mag loads, various powders but mostly 700x, & will do developemental work using WC820 as w/ the 357's.
I have already done as you suggested using 2400 in both the 357 & 44. But I have still not achieved the 2" or less type of groups.
ONCE AGIEN THANK YOU AND THE OTHER MEMBERS WHO HAVE MADE HELPFULL SUGGESTIONS.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well as I have shot up all my lead 7MM/06 loaded rounds, today I took the 220 Swift & shot at a steel plat at 300yds. In the big clearing.
Also set up a rock at 100yds to shoot the 357 at. Shot 50 rounds w/ my R. hand &
got a 50% hit rate.
Saw deer & wild turkeys.
Someone had run over a rattler, so I stopped & picked it up for a teaching specimin, It is in alcohol now. School starts up Friday , & Pam my wife goes in for knee surgery tomorrow so my summer fun is about over. I still have about 1,000 rounds of old mixed loads to shoot up in 357.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I have Been at it again.
Still can not hit consistantly w/ revolvpast 200yds.
New WC860 load for the 7MM/06 is working pretty good at 250yds.
Saw a black bear 2 x's this year, along with the normal critters.

[leftiye]

Boom Boom, When're we going to do some shooting? Or for that matter some gunsmithing? (He hasn't figgered out yet that you need to be able to see before you can hit somthin')

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
DO YOU LIVE IN PROVO? I shoot every morning at 7am. Except SAT. as I teach the BYU JUJITSU CLUB . I don't shoot on sun.
I was up shooting today, FOREST CIRCUS TRUCK, & sherrifs SUV, PASSED ME ON ROAD as I was coming down.
Well I got the best results on paper w/ 13.1 grs of WC820. THANKS TO THE FOLKS WHO SUGGESTED IT( FELIX ET. AL.). THE SMALLEST GROUP W/ THE .44 WAS 20.5 GRS. So those will be my standard loads.
After reading the thread on the new proposed OSHA regulations I got together w/ Matt & we ordered 8 more jugs of the surplus powders. I have also been bulding up my supply of primers as Matt who is assistant manager at a local gun store has been having a little trouble keeping a good supply in on the shelves.
Oh I also worked up a load on paper w/ 700X for both the 357 & 44.

[leftiye]

No, I live in Lehi. 768-8196

[BOOM BOOM]

Hi,
I'll Give You A Call When I Get Home. I Am Are The Provo Lib. It Is My Internet Acess During The Summer.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL.
AS IT HAS BEEN SNOWING ALMOST DAILY & FREEZING HERE IN UT., I AM CASTING.
As i shot up over 3ooo-44's,
& about 5000-357's last yr.I need to cast alot.
So my Christmas break will be spent casting & quenching using my slush method.
Have done 11 pots of 44's so far.