Blackpowder cartridge target rifle competition

[Don McDowell]

Jonathan Leighton posted this on the Shiloh forum, and I think it's a very good example of why maybe anybody and everybody that might even have a bit of interest in shooting bpcr competition try and make plans to attend the BPTR championships at Raton this coming August, and if nothing else try and attend a match or two close to your home base.
: 2012 NRA National Black Powder Target Rifle Championship
by LEIGHTON » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:02 am

Jim,

I really do think he would support it and fight for funding providing we can get this thing kicking at the National-level. I don't want to push him out on that limb until I know we have solid competitor backing. 2012 Nationals is a decisive factor in the future of this discipline, let alone competition in this discipline at the World-level.

The way I see it, you shouldn't even bother shooting Nationals, or Worlds, if you're not going to compete at the Local and Regional-level. We need to build NRA Black Powder Target Rifle from the base up. I mean, right now, we have a fair share of Local matches and a few main Regional matches. If it weren't for our volunteers and match sponsors, we'd be in real trouble. Matches like yours at River Bend, Steve's at Ben Avery, the Lodi boys, Paul Behe at Grayling, Bob Tarkenton at Folsom, Jim Morgan at Quantico and now Eron Ahmer at Colorado Rifle Club are the life-line of this entire discipline. When the brass looks at money allocation, some important factors include the number of active and classified competitors in each discipline as well as the number of matches, in that respective discipline, in the Shooting Sports USA schedule. We need to bolster numbers at all levels before we can think about World-level competition. I'm just trying to be frank and honest since I've got a feel for this horse after 5 years.

2010 was the last time I polled the International community. The feedback was less than positive. Most of these countries respective shooting associations or federations have all black powder lumped together, almost like us here at the NRA, to include muzzle-loading, cartridge guns, cowboy stuff, reenactors, Barnum & Bailey Circus, etc. They all split the funding and they go with the current, highest demand and, right now, it seems to be muzzle-loading programs especially through the Muzzle Loading Association International Committee (http://www.mlaic.org/). They last hosted the match in the US at Camp Butner, NC. I saw Dave Gullo and Lee Shaver there so I know people in this forum shoot both sides of black powder, just like a lot of those International competitors (Josef Rouss of Switzerland, Merwe Van Rensberg of RSA's BPSU, Gunter Kunz of Germany's BDMP, etc.), who seem to be investing their time, currently, in muzzle-loading. With that being said, currently, at the World-level, I'm not sure the demand for cartridge rifle competition will be there until we revive this thing at the bottom, on the cartridge rifle side, and then build it back up to the forefront of shooter's attention. If we get numbers up at the Local level, encourage shooters to attend Regionals so they can practice for Nationals, alongside some of the same competitors they'll see at Nationals, then we are on a good path to increase attendance at all levels. Once this happens and the International community sees the surge in NRA cartridge rifle competition, especially at the National level, then maybe we can peak their interest and get them to drop their muzzle-loaders for a little bit.

Long story short, I know my new Director would support World-level competition. We just have to back him up. We can't hang him out to dry and the only way to do that is to shoot more and show up to Raton in August. You can meet him yourself and talk to him about it yourself. You just have to show up and shoot.Jonathan Leighton
National Rifle Association - Since 1871
Competitive Shooting Division
703.267.1465 - Office
703.267.3941 - Fax
jleighton@nrahq.org
silhouette@nrahq.org

[TXGunNut]

Always looking for an excuse to go to Raton. Any local matches in the N TX area? I don't get SSUSA anymore.

[Don McDowell]

I don't know if there are any in Texas or not, but it might be worthwhile to check the NRA web site and see if there are.
From the sounds of things Jonathon is taking the bull by the horns, and going to do all he can to support and promote BPTR , and if someone is willing to do that, then we need to show him support in numbers of competitors.
If you know of a local club with pits, it maybe worthwhile to pester them about a match, even if it's a midrange match, bpcr shooter numbers and more shoots will promote the sport, and get more folks involved.
I'm guessing that Shiloh has something around 20k rifles out there, CSA about the same and no telling how many the Italians have shipped over, and then there's the CPA's and roller and highwalls,just waiting to get used.

[dave roelle]

TXGunNut------------have a look at the TSRA web site for the BPCR clubs and ranges in Texas

The Texas Championship match is May 4/5/6 at the Yaupon Creek Silhouette Association.

I know ranges and clubs exist at Mexia and i believe near Boerne-----i'm not sure about farther north

Hope to make it to Raton this summer Don----------

Dave

[Don McDowell]

Dave hope to meet you there.

[brudford]

Don , Good post . I live here in Western PA and you would think with our strong German heritage here there would be some German Schutzen BP matches ? Well the only thing I can find for BP competition is Moutain men associations and their flints . Like the poster stated all lumped together . We have a couple of BPCR clubs within an hour drive . Most shooting sports here stem from what is being hunted at the time . Archery is big from Deer hunting . Turkey shoots are popular because of the good turkey hunting . Trap is way down because all the wild pheasants are gone . If the gun competition cannot be tied to hunting here in PA chances are it is not going to be popular . The problem is finding shooters who just want to shoot for the sake of the competition and not worring about buying a rifle that cannot be used for hunting .

[Don McDowell]

Brudford, maybe hit your local clubs up about a paper match, it may get more shooters out than one might expect.

[John Boy]

I live here in Western PA and you would think with our strong German heritage here there would be some German Schutzen BP matches ?Brudford, it's a drive but at the Sportsmen Club in Cape May we hold Schuetzen matches annually
* Jan ending in May, weekly 25yd offhand matches
* Usually one all the other months: 50-100-200 or 100-200-300yds

Don, a follow up about the discussion on Graybeard ... found out today that Fort Dix (New Jersey) which has been deactivated has a pitted 1000yd range that wasn't open to the public. Only the 200yd range was public when the base was open

[Don McDowell]

John looks like an opportunity for someone to jump in there and take over that range, unless they've already sold it to some developer....

[John Boy]

... unless they've already sold it to some developer....
Don, I doubt that any land on the closed post will be sold. Fort Dix is still intact - just no GS employees and military personnel on it anymore.

The person who told me about it is a SWAT at a local police force.

[Cimarron Red]

Brudford,


The Reade Range near Allemans, Pa., in southern Clearfield County has held BPTR matches as recently as last year. I have not seen a 2012 shoot flyer yet. Here's a link to last years flyer with contact information:

http://www.readerange.org/2011/schedulestuff/2011BlackPowderProgram.pdf

There are three BPCR silhouette clubs in Pennsylvania. McDonald, which should be near you, not far from Greater Pittsburgh Airport, Ridgway in Elk County and Shippensburg in northern Franklin County southwest of Carlisle.

The Thurmont Sportsmen's Club (Thurmont, Maryland, about a half hour south of Gettysburg) holds Shuetzen matches several times a year. This is likely the closest Shuetzen shoot to you. Here's a link:

http://tcandsc.org/tcscShutzenMatches.htm

If you need links for the silhouette clubs, I'll provide those as well.

[Dragoon 45]

Don

Here is NE Okla, Red Castle Gun Club is trying to start up BPTR. We have our first match in two weeks.

http://www.tulsaredcastlegunclub.com/1071/a-black-powder-target-rifle-tournament/


Jonathan Leighton posted this on the Shiloh forum, and I think it's a very good example of why maybe anybody and everybody that might even have a bit of interest in shooting bpcr competition try and make plans to attend the BPTR championships at Raton this coming August, and if nothing else try and attend a match or two close to your home base.
: 2012 NRA National Black Powder Target Rifle Championship
by LEIGHTON » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:02 am

Jim,

I really do think he would support it and fight for funding providing we can get this thing kicking at the National-level. I don't want to push him out on that limb until I know we have solid competitor backing. 2012 Nationals is a decisive factor in the future of this discipline, let alone competition in this discipline at the World-level.

The way I see it, you shouldn't even bother shooting Nationals, or Worlds, if you're not going to compete at the Local and Regional-level. We need to build NRA Black Powder Target Rifle from the base up. I mean, right now, we have a fair share of Local matches and a few main Regional matches. If it weren't for our volunteers and match sponsors, we'd be in real trouble. Matches like yours at River Bend, Steve's at Ben Avery, the Lodi boys, Paul Behe at Grayling, Bob Tarkenton at Folsom, Jim Morgan at Quantico and now Eron Ahmer at Colorado Rifle Club are the life-line of this entire discipline. When the brass looks at money allocation, some important factors include the number of active and classified competitors in each discipline as well as the number of matches, in that respective discipline, in the Shooting Sports USA schedule. We need to bolster numbers at all levels before we can think about World-level competition. I'm just trying to be frank and honest since I've got a feel for this horse after 5 years.

2010 was the last time I polled the International community. The feedback was less than positive. Most of these countries respective shooting associations or federations have all black powder lumped together, almost like us here at the NRA, to include muzzle-loading, cartridge guns, cowboy stuff, reenactors, Barnum & Bailey Circus, etc. They all split the funding and they go with the current, highest demand and, right now, it seems to be muzzle-loading programs especially through the Muzzle Loading Association International Committee (http://www.mlaic.org/). They last hosted the match in the US at Camp Butner, NC. I saw Dave Gullo and Lee Shaver there so I know people in this forum shoot both sides of black powder, just like a lot of those International competitors (Josef Rouss of Switzerland, Merwe Van Rensberg of RSA's BPSU, Gunter Kunz of Germany's BDMP, etc.), who seem to be investing their time, currently, in muzzle-loading. With that being said, currently, at the World-level, I'm not sure the demand for cartridge rifle competition will be there until we revive this thing at the bottom, on the cartridge rifle side, and then build it back up to the forefront of shooter's attention. If we get numbers up at the Local level, encourage shooters to attend Regionals so they can practice for Nationals, alongside some of the same competitors they'll see at Nationals, then we are on a good path to increase attendance at all levels. Once this happens and the International community sees the surge in NRA cartridge rifle competition, especially at the National level, then maybe we can peak their interest and get them to drop their muzzle-loaders for a little bit.

Long story short, I know my new Director would support World-level competition. We just have to back him up. We can't hang him out to dry and the only way to do that is to shoot more and show up to Raton in August. You can meet him yourself and talk to him about it yourself. You just have to show up and shoot.Jonathan Leighton
National Rifle Association - Since 1871
Competitive Shooting Division
703.267.1465 - Office
703.267.3941 - Fax
jleighton@nrahq.org
silhouette@nrahq.org

[Don McDowell]

Dragoon, I hope you get a good turn out. There are a goodly number of bpcr type shooters in your region.

[Dragoon 45]

Thanks. I was talking to our match director last weekend at our monthly BPCRS match and he said he had fielded a lot of phone calls on it. But he was not sure how many shooters would actually show up. I know he is hoping for a good turn out. Time will tell.


Dragoon, I hope you get a good turn out. There are a goodly number of bpcr type shooters in your region.

[Don McDowell]

Don, I doubt that any land on the closed post will be sold. Fort Dix is still intact - just no GS employees and military personnel on it anymore.

The person who told me about it is a SWAT at a local police force.
:bigsmyl2:John sounds to me like your club needs to get ahold of the GSA and see about leasing said range....

[Don McDowell]

Dragoon I imagine it'll take a bit of time, and well run matches. Once the word gets out what a good time there is to be had, the line will fill up fast.

[waksupi]

Smaller shoots are more fun. The best ones in this area are invitational only. One we call "The Death March". It is run by an old Marine. It is a trail walk covering a couple miles in the mountains on foot, with a few shots at each target at unknown ranges, out to around 975 yards. By the time this part of the shoot is done, you are happy to get back on the cross sticks for the afternoon segment. Those rifles get REALLLLLL heavy!

[kokomokid]

Tex Gun Nut, Monthly BPCR shoots at Ft Chadburne near abilene tx, Grahmn tx has a monthly and Mexia has a shoot. You can shoot almost ever weekend.

[semtav]

Dragoon I imagine it'll take a bit of time, and well run matches. Once the word gets out what a good time there is to be had, the line will fill up fast.


So Don,
Why don't you get one started in Wyoming. Then if it does good, maybe we'll start one over here. ( in a few years)

[Don McDowell]

The only range I'm aware of that has pits with in 200 miles of here is at Camp Guernsey, and since 9-11 civilian access to that has been restricted but is getting better.
I have talked with the folks at Alliance about a paper match, but their schedule is jammed and from now till November theres' scracely a weekend they aren't doing something as a club on their range.
So Brian you want to fork over the doe to put in a range with pits and all the trim I know a landowner that may be interested in letting a club put them in....;-)

[semtav]

Yea. now I know two.:brokenima

One in Wyo and One in MT. ( the One in MT has a backhoe ) [smilie=1:

Gitting er done would be the problem

How many targets would a guy need?

On a low budget, I'd think one pit and three firing lines would have to work.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Brian,

1 pit is all that is ever used? Have you ever been to a Rifle Match with a pit? You build multiple yard lines each need to be to grade so as you move back you still have clear access to the Targets. Each target is pulled into the pits by the pit crew to be marked each shot and they must be able to do this safely while the target on eather side of them are still being fired at.

You should have at least 5 targets, that would allow 10 shooters per relay for a total of 20 shooters a day. 10 targets would be better, carriers would run about 1 to 2 K each so figure 10-20 thou for the carriers alone the Pits would need for safety reasons bermed and concreted, Figure 8-10 thou for the dirt work and the concreat another 10K I priced this all about 15-16 years ago. Years back the Lander rifle club put in a 1000 yard pit past the original 600 yard range. 4 targets were put in a very tight spot the cost using old carriers and scrap steel still ran over 10K just for the concreat and dirt work. 3 shooters per relay proved to make a very long day shooting 800-900-1000 yards. We later went to only 2 shooters per relay with 4 targets that allowed 16 shooters only. The matches require about 1 hr 8 mins per each yardline for two shooters. This includes set up time and then you figure moving the shooters from the pits to the Line after pit changes.

I would suggest you attend a NRA style event at Butte's Rocker Range where they shoot NRA High Power across the course, you would then have a much better Informed idea, and understanding, of what it entails for such a match to be run. And what is required to safely and correctly run. BPTR is much like Highpower, Creedmoor is very similar to NRA Long Range course and is fired the same yardages and the same target.

Your suggestions on the shiloh forum of course recieved no reply from the folks that actually shoot the match as it was quite clear, from your comments, you had no idea what you were asking for or talking about. No flame intended you just have no idea its clear, what the matches are like.

If you really want to help I would suggest attending one such match first then you can speak from a bit more of a informed position.

KW
The Lunger

[Don McDowell]

last fall there was a diddy in the Torrington paper that there was going to be a 1000 yd match at the range at Guernsey that folks could attend, and there was even to be a practice session the weekend before. The phone # listed in the article wasn't right, and going thru the phone book for the guard yielded noone that knew anything about it.
Might try to find out what I can again, but not to hopeful....

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Don,

I looked up the WSSA, it seems there is a 1000 yard range at Laramie?? They will be hosting a Long Range state championship while we are in Raton for the BPTR match. I find this interesting. I am pretty sure Cheyenne also has at least a 600 yard HP Range perhaps 1000 yards too?

Check this out:
http://www.wyossa.com/matches.htm

Kenny

[Don McDowell]

Kenny one of the clubs at Cheyenne had a 600 yd range, but I don't know if it's still going or not.
I think when Laramie county bought the Archer experiment farm one of the things they had slated was to build a 1000 yd range, but I'm not sure if it will have pits, or just berms like there at Rawlins.

[Don McDowell]

Kenny I guess we need to sick Eddie or Charlie on that Laramie deal, must be a new range? Anyway that might just be a place something could get started. Did Garbe and co ever get their range extension finalized with the blm?

[semtav]

Yea Kenny, I agree. Need to go to get a good idea of the layout etc. Too bad they don't have more in the winter somewhere. Maybe If I hustle my *** off, I can slip down next spring for the one in Phoenix.

Everyone is talking about the need to increase the participation at the national level but until you can get more participation at the local level and have an extra reason for people to want to attend I doubt it will increase drastically.

So how are we going to get people interested locally? How can we get monetary participation from somewhere so we can build at least one range centrally located in States that have a decent number of shooters willing to participate?

Maybe you are right, maybe we can only have a few big matches at far away places.
Time will tell

thanks

Brian

[Don McDowell]

Brian I think the best way to do it right now is find ranges with the facilities and then pursue the possibility of getting the chance to try a match there, and then beg borrow and plead with anybody and everybody with a rifle to come shoot the match...

[Kenny Wasserburger]

The match its self does not lend well for folks that are just slightly interested, Much like Highpower only a few diehards in Wyoming in that game too. Something else, when BPTR first started out as a national event, I was there, we had 120 shooters and held that number for 3-4 years, issues with NRA and Whittington center caused that number to drop also people lost interest, (its a very Hard Game to excell at) but as the attendance went down, The scores went up a great deal. The quality of the shooters and skills increased as the learning curve was overcome. Costs also increase, fuel lodging are two main ones. When I first started as a family man with kids-wife we camped due to being much cheaper, wife spent two weeks cooking and frezing stuff for the trip. Camping was $12 a night, full hook up. Now its $25 thats from 1996 to 2012.

Where as quite a few folks attend gong shoots, I can come up with over a dozen within a couple hunderd miles, 5-6 just in Gillette are regular attendies at the Q and Broadus. Its a much easier type of match to get into. Less rigid rules, and safety, Never even come close to having been shot at a BPTR Match even in the pits! Where as The Q I damm near bought it from a very stupid young lady that had no business even being on the line pointing a loaded rifle right at me and a whole line of folks shooting offhand.



Alliance is one of the better run matches and I enjoy it a great deal, but even the spring match and the fall match are two different ducks, different flavor. Bryan Y and I were discussing that just the other night on the phone. I have more important places to spend my hard earned Vacation and money at so I no longer attend the fall match.

As for central located ranges Raton is an excellent one less then 600 miles, Byers even closer but still over 400 for me. If they can make it a two day shoot it would be worth the trip.

Alliance has pits and is also excellent located, Getting someone to put the match on, Getting targets, frames, running the line?? and the Pits, this stuff does not all run by it's self takes a lot of work and planing. it is just 300 miles for me cross country that I grew up in from Edgemont SD to Crawford NE I can cut a good many miles.

Steve Rhoades goes through a lot of hoops to put on the best BPTR Match in the Country, the past couple years Raton's quality of the match has increased 10 fold due to the efforts of Jonathan and his crew of 6 folks. Skip runs one of the best pits I have ever pulled in due to hard work and listening. Better then any highpower Match I have ever attended.

just securing the targets and cardboard backers, is a real chore and is Expensive!

If I ever have a 50-60 K windfall rest assured I will put in pits on the ranch and at least 6 target frames-carriers. The Dirt work at Phoenix's pits or Ratons, would most likely run 500,000 to 800,000 alone. let alone building the raised firing lines like the 1000 yard one is.


Lots of things to consider, local matches, thats a bust few ranges in my opinion, what is needed is lots of converstation, and getting folks interested enough to travel to a well established well run MATCH. Then they can come home and look local for more. What you need to look at is if there are even enough people local that are interested to even try it. Jimbo and I have recruited Bryan that took years! at local gong shoots, he is trying real hard to get Dennis, and Vern long time gong shooters to come to Raton this year just to try Mid-Range first.

The costs, I hear that alot, and Laugh my *** off when I do, depends solely on how bad you want to do something. Heard about it from a buddy that blows 7-10 grand a years on snowmachines. I just looked at him and said Really????? Really????

John boy mentioned fixed income, and small pension, I can undestand that, Also looked at a picture of that pipe in his mouth, what does he spend on tobacco? I quit smokinig many many years ago due to the asthma, and chewing 25 years ago. The ammount I spent on tobacco was Horrible!, Its all about how bad you want to do something. All I say is if you can't afford it, then change that? your budget or get a FRICKING JOB! I really dont want to hear your whinning.

I would love to shoot high power long range again, however its quite spendy, rifles and the travel, ammo would be quite a bit cheaper with handloads. Yet I enjoy BPTR a lot more. So I take that nice bonus I get each year, sock it in the bank, income tax refund, Oh As a vaccation home my camper I carry a morgage on and that with my house payment nets me about a 2800 to 3200 a year refund, and I pay in over 26K in income tax a year. The refund covers the Camper payment for the year. Or I use it to pay for plates and powder! I have to prove 21 days a year the camper is used for vacation, pretty easy, with Raton, Cody, Alliance, Phoenix the past 2 years.

Local wise I think Byers and Alliance are our two best bets, Don I guess we need to get with Jim Bourn, and vist. Look at that possiblity. However that would most likely mean I budget out the Long range Gong match, as my dance card is pretty much full. With Phoenix in spring-now fall too, Raton, Cody National Rifle Club, Alliance May LR Match that is the only Gong Shoot I attend anymore, Big Whiskey spring-fall and Shiloh Shoot. Thats lots of Desiel and Grub and Travel.

So last year I attended Phoneix spring, Alliance, Cody, Raton, Big Whisky fall, Shiloh Match, and Phoenix Silhouette in Nov.. A total of 7 different matches.

Phoenix 5 days of shooting plus 4 more travel total of 9 days.
Alliance, I took friday and monday off plus the weekend came down thurs night. 4 days total
Cody, took wed for travel thur fri sat sunday, 5 days total
Raton 12 days total of sihouette-midrange, Creedmoor.
end of summer match big Whiskey fri sat sun monday holiday coming home. 4 days
Big Whiskey Shiloh match following weekend, left camper there came back friday night went home Sunday this year a two day shoot so will take a extra day come home Monday.

Then in Nov Phoenix 1-1/2 days of travel there 1/2 day practice, 3 days of Silhouette, then 1 1/2 days of travel home thats hooking it btw.

So As I say my dance card is pretty full! Well I am off to the ranch to vist for the weekend and see my brother and family. I will try to drop intonight after the hoopla settles down.

KW
The Lunger

PS remember, I work full time, have kids raised and gone, I am single! that alone makes me able to afford this! I don't boat, ski, showmachine, Hunt but a few days at the ranch, the rest of my spare time is casting loading and Shooting BPCR. Oh and I have 7 weeks of paid vacation. Oh and am terminally ill and Do what ever I want.

[Don McDowell]

I don't worry so much about the cost of going to a match especially if we can sort of blend it in to a vacation, and the match fits our schedule. Some of these gong matches if you go shoot the whole thing, lever,22,handgun and the longrange can cost what the entry fee's for the midrange or the creedmoor at Raton do. For me it's 500 miles to Raton, 450 to Forsyth, and nearly the same to Cody, Big timber is back into the 500 mile range.
The only "close" orginized shoots are Alliance, Byers and Rawlins with Ekalaka being right on the 300 mile mark.
I think there are a number of folks around that would take up the bptr stuff if it was available, I could be wrong but sure wouldn't be the first time that happened....
Anybody priced golf lately,,,, sheesh....

[Lead pot]

When we build our range we were on a very low budget. We got a old borrow gravel pit and made a very nice range out of it. It is a short 200 yards but it is the longest range around.
When we build our 15 frame pit we had a back hoe come in and dig a 6' foot deep ditch and the dirt was piled up in front for a berm the impact area was a existing hill side we cut the pit into.
We build the frame supports out of 2x8's and used 2" pipe for the frames to slide up and down on. the counter weights are like a flower box filled with rocks and it has a hard cover roof in the pit that is about 4 feet in front of the frames with a cement floor.
This has been working now going on 30 years now being used for High Powder matches and just for members to use when no matches are scheduled.
Two years ago I rebuild the frame holders welding the carriers up using angle iron.
Like I said it is a low budget pit but it has served us well for 30 years.
You dont need a high dollar pit made out of concrete and 8" wide flanged I beams for the frames to slide up and down on.

[TXGunNut]

Tex Gun Nut, Monthly BPCR shoots at Ft Chadburne near abilene tx, Grahmn tx has a monthly and Mexia has a shoot. You can shoot almost ever weekend.


Thanks, Graham is a nice ride from here. I've heard about their matches, just forgot. John McBride's match near Tulsa is worth the ride and motel room as well. There's an old military base south of here but I think they're mostly highpower and military enthusiasts.

[semtav]

Thanks, Graham is a nice ride from here. I've heard about their matches, just forgot. John McBride's match near Tulsa is worth the ride and motel room as well. There's an old military base south of here but I think they're mostly highpower and military enthusiasts.

Do you know if they shoot thru the winter? I have friends in both places.
(Graham and Tulsa.) I get down to Tulsa almost every year picking up or delivering radial engines to be overhauled.

[Dragoon 45]

Our BPCRS Matches in Tulsa start in Mar and end in Oct currently. The Match is on the first Sunday of the Month. Our BPTR Matches start on the 15th of this month with I believe 5 matches scheduled this year. These will normally be the third sunday of the month.

He is our Website:

http://www.tulsaredcastlegunclub.com/




Do you know if they shoot thru the winter? I have friends in both places.
(Graham and Tulsa.) I get down to Tulsa almost every year picking up or delivering radial engines to be overhauled.

[semtav]

curious why you guys quit shooting in the winter down there.

[RMulhern]

Do you know if they shoot thru the winter? I have friends in both places.
(Graham and Tulsa.) I get down to Tulsa almost every year picking up or delivering radial engines to be overhauled.

semtav

So...when you gonna go to turbines??

Who's doing your overhauls....Sam Thompson??:roll:

[semtav]

when I win the lottery.
Yes Tulsa Aircraft Engines

[RMulhern]

curious why you guys quit shooting in the winter down there.

semtav

Ever heard of DEER & DUCKS??

Much to my dissatisfaction...deer are hunted October, November, December, and January!!:???::(

[TXGunNut]

The costs, I hear that alot, and Laugh my *** off when I do, depends solely on how bad you want to do something.-Kenny Wasserburger


Agreed, had the same thoughts when I was shooting a lot of PPC. When the game changed to include matches for three different semi-autos I gave it up but mainly because I'd lost interest and adding three new guns & gear to the revolvers I already had pushed me out.
Shooting a match that only requires one or two rifles interests me but somehow I just don't have the time to travel to matches very often. Costs not an issue for this gainfully employed single guy, heck of a lot cheaper than racing or tournament fishing!

[TXGunNut]

curious why you guys quit shooting in the winter down there.

Gotta take some time off to fill the freezer and boolit cans.

[Dragoon 45]

This is what I was told when I asked why we didn't shoot year round.

Nov and Dec are out as most of our shooters are out hunting deer, we always got a very poor turnout in those months. Our various deer seasons (archery, BP, rifle, etc.) start normally in mid to late Oct and end around the last part of Jan.

Jan and Feb we normally get a lot of ice storms here. The range is located on John Zink Ranch which is private property and the ranch itself lacks equipment to clear the roads into our range during winter weather. There are two very steep ridges to get over to get to our range and they become impassable with any ice on the roads. As I understand it, the shooters were polled and since we had so many matches cancelled due to bad weather in Jan and Feb, the decision to start the Matches each year in March was made.




curious why you guys quit shooting in the winter down there.

[semtav]

Can someone explain the difference In these Matches

http://www.nrahq.org/compete/nm_black_powder.asp

If MR Prone is Midrange Prone can I assume MR Position is Midrange Sitting???????

then what are the last two days?? MR Position @ 800 - 1000 yds

[Old-Win]

Brian, I'm thinking that it must be a misprint and that the last two days are Long Range instead of Mid Range.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Last 2 days Creedmoor any position, Position Mid Range is offhand at 200, sitting at 300 and prone or sitting at 600.

KW
the Lunger

[semtav]

Thanks Kenny

[TXGunNut]

BPCTR match in Tulsa this Sunday!

[Don McDowell]

Well let us know how you do.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Second what Don said and wish you guys decent weather and some wind! We have to get more shooters into the sport. Something with this rich of a tradition in shooting should be promoted and encouraged.

KW
The Lunger

[Circuit Rider]

Lord how I wish I'd never left Oklahoma! You gents talk about shootin' 800 - 1,000 yds, tears me up. In east Tn. I've got a range an hour away that I can shoot 220 yds max. There is a range in Oak Ridge, but you have to be a member from what I understand. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough. You guys have fun this summer burnin' powder. CR

[TXGunNut]

I can't make it this time but didn't want to miss a chance to promote it. Good folks at this match, met several of them awhile back. Outstanding facility and a well-run match if the sillywet match I visited is any indication.

[kokomokid]

Grahmn shuts down during the winter, now has a very nice .22 match saturday before the sunday bpcr.

[RMulhern]

I went out today and NEVER found the ten ring!!

[Don McDowell]

Somedays are like that....

[TXGunNut]

Last time I took my 45-90 out I'm not sure I found the target, all hits well within an 8.5X11 target @ 100 but it wasn't pretty. New glasses are awesome but my open sight days are over and peeps are going to need lots of trigger time. Mebbe I need a tang-sighted .22.