Proposing a "win-win" for Bullshop and Cast Boolits. Please hear me out Dan, Tina.

[Recluse]

Your affairs are your own and I'm confident the overwhelming majority of the membership here, especially the oldtimers, will absolutely respect your decision as well as your privacy.

So what I propose is this.

Since you are going out of business and since one of the most vaunted and valued products on almost every casting table here is Bullplate, would you consider the following:

--Sell the formula, its ingredients and ratios to Cast Boolits, but with the caveat that only Ken, Buckshot, Waksupi, etc actually know or be privvy to this formula.

--Allow Cast Boolits to manufacture, sell and distribute the lube, of which I propose would be re-named to Boolitplate, or it could be kept as Bullplate if you would prefer that.

--Should you decide to re-open your doors, you would have the option to exercise a buyback or a buy-into agreement for the formula, its manufacture and distribution.

--We could purchase the formula from you via a fund-raising drive held here with the membership via voluntary contributions. If you are indeed moving, it would be our honor and privilege to assist you in moving forward with your lives.

I submit that this is a win-win because it keeps the quality and legacy of Bullplate alive and well, you are paid fair-market value for its formula and makeup, and you have a buyback/buy-into clause.

Thoughts?

:coffee:

[starmac]

Recluse, you might also send them an email, as tina has mentioned several times they do not check the forums anymore.

I think you have a pretty good proposition there though, if it would turn out doable.

[theperfessor]

I'd be glad to help out if possible. Wouldn't be the first time I've had to sign a secrecy agreement to keep my pie hole shut about something proprietary. Interested in helping them as a family but not really interested in making cast bullets. I'd be glad to help take over production and distribution of BullPlate and pay them a royalty or percentage with a buy back guarantee, etc.

BullPlate is a great product and I hate to see it disappear. Not trying to be ghoulish here, just trying to help if that's something they would be interested in looking at. I wish them all the best.

[garym1a2]

I think thats a good offer. I see too many that only want to get it for free or reverse engineer it. I rather see someone buy the formla than it just disappear or be stolen.

[Recluse]

Recluse, you might also send them an email, as tina has mentioned several times they do not check the forums anymore.

I think you have a pretty good proposition there though, if it would turn out doable.

I'm just the idea man here. THAT call would have to be made by Ken & Staff. I'm more than willing to pitch in to help make it happen, but to transfer something proprietary. . . that's Ken's call.

I'll respect whatever decision (or non-decision) is made. Like everyone else here, I have a great deal of respect and admiration for Dan & Tina and am just looking for a win-win solution given the tone of Tina's message, which was one of utter frustration.

:coffee:

[45 2.1]

Your beating a dead horse here.......................

If Dan and Tina take you up on the offer, I will say i'm wrong on that.

BTW Recluse, there are several people here that know exactly what Bullplate is......... a spectrograph identified it along with the particulars. Several other mold manufacturers are useing something similar.

[runfiverun]

i think it's a fine idea, if that's what they want to do.
the proposition is straightforward,and reasonable.
it would benefit both the sight and them [by keeping the product available and on the market especially if at some point they decide to open shop again], rather than let it fall to the wayside.
post any results and count on my support..

[Stick_man]

+1 what r5r said. I'd be willing to help out whatever I can as well.

[x101airborne]

Im in also.
I love their product and have been told what it is.
Yet have never made my own out of respect and wont.
I would pitch in whatever I could to make it a "Cast Boolit Commodity" and not loose such a valuable product.
Shall we start a "Buy Out Pool"?

I would give 100.00.
With the understanding that KEN oversee the thing as well as he could and I NOT be told again what is in it. I dont want to hear it (that away I can deny it) and dont tell me. Just let me buy some "Cast Boolit Voodoo" and I will be happy.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I think it is a good idea as well and personally would donate to the cause.

[kbstenberg]

I allso think its a good idea. But would there be a problem with taxes?

[Stick_man]

I allso think its a good idea. But would there be a problem with taxes?

There would only be a problem with taxes if you allowed there to be. Properly set up, no problem. If it generates income, there would be income taxes associated with it.

[geargnasher]

JD, I think you have concocted an excellent plan there that would serve the forum and members well, I'm just not sure it will serve Dan and family. I know that's probably difficult to imagine how it might not, but if their circumstances are as bizarre as I think they might be, it could actually make things worse for them.

As far as income taxes go, Stick Man has it right. If it's set up properly, it could be handled along with the other forum business.

Gear

[Love Life]

Don't forget about speed green and Lotak hard.

I would fight an actual chimp for the last pound of Lotak Hard.

[waksupi]

Just so you know, the staff has a "hands off" position on any dealings here, aside from our own private sales on the board, and helping chase dead beats. We want to maintain a position of having no responsibility of any dealings going bad, and board or staff being held responsible for any money or goods. We have enough to do. This would most likely need to be handled by someone else. It may be the perfect thing for a retired member.

[x101airborne]

An excellent point that I did not realize, Waksupi.

Well, I will throw my name in the hat. I am a stay at home dad who does spend a lot of time on here. I already know what it is and have respected that information, so I think I may be trustworthy. I havent had any bad dealings with anyone yet and have a ZERO ignore list. I am also charitable and have given to the site, benefactors, and have sent several boxes of different things to members for free and even paid shipping.
Only with the blessings of the members here will I do this, but I would be willing and still offer 100.00 for the Bullshop Buyout.

[LEADHOPPER]

I'd be willing to go in on a Bullshop Buyout. I would hate for such a good products be lost to the wayside.

[WILCO]

I would hate for such a good products be lost to the wayside.

Bullshop could always donate what's left of it's inventory to castboolits for a benefit auction to support this great website. You know, just a little thank you for all the past support from our membership. :)

[Alvarez Kelly]

I'm in. I'll help. Tell me when and where.

[PB234]

Money that goes to them helping them along with a buyback clause so that they still have the product if they want to renter the business is something I'll also support.

[41 mag fan]

I'd help....go figure..I just bought 6 bottles yesterday

[ShooterAZ]

I would be willing to help also.

[OBIII]

Some people may know what is in it, but they cannot use the "Bullplate" designation. Just saying.

[Stick_man]

An excellent point that I did not realize, Waksupi.

Well, I will throw my name in the hat. I am a stay at home dad who does spend a lot of time on here. I already know what it is and have respected that information, so I think I may be trustworthy. I havent had any bad dealings with anyone yet and have a ZERO ignore list. I am also charitable and have given to the site, benefactors, and have sent several boxes of different things to members for free and even paid shipping.
Only with the blessings of the members here will I do this, but I would be willing and still offer 100.00 for the Bullshop Buyout.

I don't know if Bullshop would still be interested in selling out or not, but would you be willing to consider either an LLC or an S-Corp? Possibly several members go together to pool their funds to make a purchase and form a business entity.

Just kinda thinking out loud here.

[maglvr]

"I would fight an actual chimp for the last pound of Lotak Hard. "

Now I would pay a good amount to see that! LOL!

[smoked turkey]

Recluse has a good idea. Sounds like a reasonable thing to do given that so many here use the product. I will lend my support if the details can be worked out with everyone on both sides.

[PatMarlin]

I think that is a great idea Recluse.

I have no idea what the Bullshop clan is going through, but let me tell you what has happened to me since I started Patmarlins.

There are shooters in our hobby out there, that have nothing better to do than to attack and try to beat up on vendors like us. Rude as hell and have made myself not want to post or participate in forum conversations like I used to anymore.

You sacrifice everything, give up most of your shooting, hunting, and fishing time, to bring a product to our industry and try to scratch out a buck while doing it, and some folks are hell bent on complaining and giving you a bad time. Some even here have no problem whatsoever ripping off others hard work and inventions.

If it wasn't for the 98 percent of customer praise and compliments I get I would have walked from this a long time ago. Let alone I'm stubborn as hell and will not be put down, and give up. Some folks wonder why I get testy sometimes. I don't handle well the BS some guys are so selfishly willing to shell out. I can only imagine what Daniel and his family have gone though, and I miss him.

Pat ...:drinks:

[enfield]

This maybe a stupid question but what lube products does bullshop make, I see several names mentioned but not sure what each one is for:confused: ,and how can the sprue plate be lubed without getting some down in the mould and making a mess of the boolits ? I have often considered ordering from him in the past but just didn't know what to get. From the praise I hear about his product I feel like I'm missing out on something. Thanks.

[Wayne Smith]

Guys, Tina told me in an e-mail that they intend to hold on to information, re-locate, and continue making and selling their products. In my next order I am going to ask them to keep my name and address in their files and contact me with their new address.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Guys, Tina told me in an e-mail that they intend to hold on to information, re-locate, and continue making and selling their products. In my next order I am going to ask them to keep my name and address in their files and contact me with their new address.

Well, that makes sense !
I wish them well.
Jon

[MikeS]

Guys, Tina told me in an e-mail that they intend to hold on to information, re-locate, and continue making and selling their products. In my next order I am going to ask them to keep my name and address in their files and contact me with their new address.

Wayne, so are you saying that the BullShop is not going to close like Tina said in her post, but rather is just going to relocate, but not give out their new contact info to the Cast Boolits membership? If so, then I'm really confused, after all, the CB website has lots of members, and to cut them off because of one or more 'bad eggs' just doesn't make sense. I mean their products are very specific to casting boolits, and where else are they going to find as large a group of casters all in one place? Further more, if they're going to continue doing business, I'm pretty sure that their contact info will in one way or another find it's way back to Cast Boolits. They have a great product, and I could be wrong, but I think this website has done more good for them, than bad. I personally haven't ordered any BullPlate, but that's only because I have so much of it from group buy samples that I haven't had a need to order more.

Maybe I see things differently than other people, but I feel that their staying in business, but trying to keep their contact info away from Cast Boolits members is worse than them just closing shop. While everyone here is saying how wonderful Dan & family are, IF what you said and how I understood it, is true, than I think that's pretty rotten. If I understood it wrong, and they are closing up shop as Tina said they were, then my above statement doesn't apply. I don't know Dan or Tina, the only things I know about them are what I see written on this website, so it really makes no difference to me, I don't wish them any ill will, I just wish they would plainly state what they mean.

[starmac]

I would imagine that she just does not know the new contact info yet, and probably does not have a date when they will be up and running.

[smoked turkey]

This is in reference to Pat Marlins post about the 2%-3% minority of customers who seem to think it is their lot in life to find fault with anything and everything. These 2%ers cause virtually 99.9999% of the problems. I worked for an electric utility prior to retirement. I can state that Pat's take on the minority at 2% is right on. It is hard to remember sometimes that you still have 98% of your customer base who likes what you are doing and want you to keep it up. Hopefully Bullshop will realize that their number of complainers is down in that range of 2% and probably less than that.

[x101airborne]

If there is any chance of the Bullshop opening and continuing their business, I am pulling my offer to make their product. I know I said by buying them out and doing it ethically and honestly, but I just want to be clear that I respect them and their products. I wish em well, a speedy and stress-less move, and hope they are up and running soon.

[Recluse]

Guys, Tina told me in an e-mail that they intend to hold on to information, re-locate, and continue making and selling their products. In my next order I am going to ask them to keep my name and address in their files and contact me with their new address.

THAT is good news and the best win-win situation for all, no doubt.


If there is any chance of the Bullshop opening and continuing their business, I am pulling my offer to make their product. I know I said by buying them out and doing it ethically and honestly, but I just want to be clear that I respect them and their products. I wish em well, a speedy and stress-less move, and hope they are up and running soon.

Agree. The tone of Tina's e-mail made it sound as though they were closing shop for good, no more Bullplate, no more Speed Green, no more nothing. Hate to see good people give up making good products, which is where I came up with the idea of some of us being a "stop-gap" measure until things settled down for Dan & family.

:coffee:

[x101airborne]

THAT is good news and the best win-win situation for all, no doubt.



Agree. The tone of Tina's e-mail made it sound as though they were closing shop for good, no more Bullplate, no more Speed Green, no more nothing. Hate to see good people give up making good products, which is where I came up with the idea of some of us being a "stop-gap" measure until things settled down for Dan & family.

:coffee:

I fully agree. I dont or cant understand the tone of the origional e-mail, the confustion that followed, then hearing that they just intend to move and continue. Well, that is their choice. And if they ever do decide to quit making these products I will gladly re-instate my offer and up it to make it worth their wild. And truly if they do wish to do a time out or whatever from the business, I would gladly take up the slack. I am with everyone else. I dont want to lose these products. Twould be a shame.

[Stick_man]

I fully agree. I dont or cant understand the tone of the origional e-mail, the confustion that followed, then hearing that they just intend to move and continue. Well, that is their choice. And if they ever do decide to quit making these products I will gladly re-instate my offer and up it to make it worth their wild. And truly if they do wish to do a time out or whatever from the business, I would gladly take up the slack. I am with everyone else. I dont want to lose these products. Twould be a shame.

I agree as well. If they are just intending to close up, move, take a break, then start up again, I can fully respect that. I am willing to help out any way I can.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Lease it to NOE. Swede can have it made, under license from Bullshop, and just send them the $$$ on a monthly basis...

too simple?

Rich

[x101airborne]

Lease it to NOE. Swede can have it made, under license from Bullshop, and just send them the $$$ on a monthly basis...

too simple?

Rich

Hey, Heck yeah!!!!
Great idea!

[Wayne Smith]

Tina also said that they would probably stay off the internet completely - did not say why. I would assume raising children would be a major reason. If my children were small I would seriously consider disconnecting the internet except for supervised educational purposes.

[starmac]

Tina also said that they would probably stay off the internet completely - did not say why. I would assume raising children would be a major reason. If my children were small I would seriously consider disconnecting the internet except for supervised educational purposes.

It could be location, iirc they are off grid.
She may just turn it on to post for sale and then to check e-mails once in a while.
I know she doesn't do pm's.

She may even have to drive to town to a WiFi service.

[waksupi]

Enough speculation. Give them a week to clarify the opening post, if not, if someone has the formula post it. This is a very poor way to treat customers.

[tomme boy]

I agree with Waksupi.

[SciFiJim]

I dunno, Tina said they would be in business until July. The reasons they are closing are their own. Until bullplate lube is no longer available from them, I think we should respect their intellectual property.

[clintsfolly]

Well said Waksupi AS much as I hate to see the Bullshop Clan go. I find it rude to start a witch hunt and leave. Clint

[Stick_man]

Sorry guys, but I have to agree 100% with SciFiJim. It ain't over until it's over. As long as they are still in business, their intellectual property should be respected. Until they have shipped the last bottle or pound of lube or whatever, they are still in business and can still change their mind and return to full activity within the forum. Let's not put the cart before the horse. You don't have a funeral until the "deceased" is at least cold and declared legally dead.

[Moonie]

I agree with Waksupi, I have issues with the way they left. Don't get me wrong, I use and recommend their product highly however it just doesn't feel right the way this was done.

[Rockchucker]

I can see this thread getting locked just like the other two have been locked for what, general discussion on a vendor that doesn't want to post a thread on what in the world is going on. Tina made the original post that has caused all the speculation on this site, To me what's going on here with them is WRONG and not very good business, or is it. Seems a lot of lube has been sold since she made her original post. I'm totally confused if they are going out of business in July like she said or if they are just locating to a different residence due to someone giving them a lot of grief. I think Bullshop owes Cast Boolits an explanation. Like it's been said in another thread I have no horse in this race and only wish them the very best, but come on, all this Drama is like watching a reality show on tv.

[Recluse]

Put me in the Camp of Frustration now.

There seems to be enough time and internet resources to post a dump truck load of goods in THIS forum's Swapping & Selling forum, but not enough time to even drop a simple line of explanation as to exactly why.

A tremendous amount of business has come from this group right here, right now, not to mention a tremendous amount of support. This isn't the first time we've had "Closed again/Open again" scenarios from the Bullshop.

How much business have they received as a result of direct recommendations from Cast Boolits members? A lot.

I have a few bottles left, but even if I didn't, it wouldn't matter. I'm done with it.

This is NOT how you treat your customers or your friends or the very people who have stood by you time and time again.

I'm not into one-sided relationships.

:coffee:

[geargnasher]

Agreed, Recluse. I'm done with it too, and I think the sooner the rest of us are done with it, the better things will be around here, and the fewer ulcers the Mods are going to have trying to do crowd control.

Remember everyone, Randyrat can meet your sprue plate lube and boolit lube needs as well, and he's still very much in business. No, he didn't prompt of bribe me to say that, either, just wanted to mention it because good cottage entrepreneurs are getting harder to find and I like doing business with him.

Gear

[edsmith]

Recluse said it right, customers come first, present and past.

[MikeS]

I have to agree with Gear, RandyRat is a great person to deal with. If/when I need more mould lube he's the person I'll be getting it from. I believe it's called voting with your wallet, and Randy has certainly earned my vote.


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?gqvudc

[429421Cowboy]

Well dang it now I'm just curious to find out what happened to them, after causing this much of an uproar I'd at least like to hear the story. But sadly sometimes in life i've come to find out that after things like this the real story might come as a letdown:sad:

[PatMarlin]

..., customers come first, present and past.

I have no idea what has happened with them, BUT in Tina's post she indicated and referred to the party causing them hardship as "You Win" and "You know who you are." SO much so they are going out of business?

If that's a customer here at CB, causing a family- long time good standing members here hardship, then "customers come first, present and past."...?

I think not.

I think this should be looked into.

Something about this really makes me shake my head,.

I said my pieces and I'm dropping out of it.

[Recluse]

I have to agree with Gear, RandyRat is a great person to deal with. If/when I need more mould lube he's the person I'll be getting it from. I believe it's called voting with your wallet, and Randy has certainly earned my vote.

Your and mine both.

:coffee:

[Suo Gan]

People stop and start businesses all the time. IMO they had the "NAME". It did not matter that their products ingredients were out there, heck even Dan gave out the ingredients. They had a trusted name coupled with a story people liked. And there is always that segment that does not want to do 100% of the home brewing.

The silver lining in this is that there will be another who comes along and takes their place, it always happens. And I have almost always found that the one that fills a vacancy is better than the one before.

I would not try to rally the troops fer or agin Bullshop. Just let the chips fall where they may.

I know we all want the best for Dan and his family. Why not leave it at that?

[Suo Gan]

I have no idea what has happened with them, BUT in Tina's post she indicated and referred to the party causing them hardship as "You Win" and "You know who you are." SO much so they are going out of business?

If that's a customer here at CB, causing a family- long time good standing members here hardship, then "customers come first, present and past."...?

I think not.

I think this should be looked into.

Something about this really makes me shake my head,.

I said my pieces and I'm dropping out of it.

Her post was rabble rousing. I have no doubt that it was true, that there was someone who did not like them for whatever reason. You can expect this in business. I know that when I started my first business I had stars in my eyes and thought there would be a wonderful symbiosis of business taking place. I learned real quick that you cannot please everyone. I also learned that I wanted the money of even the people I knew I could not please. So I figured out that I needed to cover myself legally and jump through the hoops.

I would not let the witch hunt for a supposed crooked boolits member get to out of hand. It is life. They were talking of selling their biz long before any of this was talked about. My take is that they are sick of it and moved on, and maybe that one person was the final straw.

Take care, I am glad you are here as a vendor PM.

[PatMarlin]

Evidently, there's a whole lot more to this story some folks know and many don't. I don't, but I like Recluse's starting idea to this thread. What happened from there I have no idea.

[PatMarlin]

One thing's for sure. Vendors need customers and customers need vendors.

There's no exclusivity on either side. Our brothers in AU are not allowed vendors for the gun industry, and we certainly do not want go there.

No the customer is not always right. I am certainly not always right, but the few that have the mindset that they can give me garbage, and I'm supposed to eat it JUST because they are a customer can go bother somebody else.

Thought I could stop... :mrgreen:

[yondering]

I'm tired of the drama, and just want some bullet lube. Speed Green is the best I've found for my uses, and I appreciate the work The Bullshop put into it, but I'm running low and need a replacement.

If anyone here can recommend a similar equivalent lube that is more readily available and works as magically as Speed Green, send me a pm, would ya please?

[starmac]

It is my understanding that you can still order it from bullshop until june.

I was mistaken about them being off grid, they apparently live 27 miles out but do have electricity.

[CLAYPOOL]

I'll ask a question, do they sell larger bottles/containers, etc...I have no problem sending money, but I was wondering if a larger amount of their products can be purchased...Thanks for any info...

[Ramar]

I think I’m like most here and have a desire for Dan’s products because of the great success I’ve had with them. I also have respect for him as a man of faith. There is a challenge in front of him that must be dealt with and I hope he is able to do so and is able to return his business to what it was of the past. I have not placed an order since this thread has started, but have a desire to do so with enough of his products to last me two life times. But I won’t. I have a feeling of being duped and if I were to place that order I believe I would be compromising some of my life long principles.

I await like many…the week is up!
Ramar