SHTF/Campfire reloading

[DeanWinchester]

Call it whatever you like, but if you were to put together a kit for reloading .308 in unknown territory, by the fire, in your camper, whatever what would be the best choice? Lee Loader, Lyman 310, or a Lee hand press? Being compact is the name of the game here. Everything MUST fit in say, a .50 cal can. I have a Lee hand press, but I have never used a Lee Loader or Lyman 310.

I have a Lee powder dipper that I filed down until 12.5g of Unique fits and I can throw that pretty darn consistently.
I can put a neck sizing die, a seating die and Lee FC die in one of their 4 die boxes. In the fourth space I can put a cutter, lock stud and trim length pin along with primer pocket tool. I need to remember that I must also fit enough kit to cast boolits on an open fire, and all must fit in a SAW or .50cal can.

Like I said, I've never used the other options. Please discuss.

[Ickisrulz]

The best choice would be loaded rounds. You can get an awful lot of cartridges in the space your reloading/casting equipment takes up.

Are you going to lug around containers of powder, primers and lead ingots too?

My advice is have a quantity of ammo you have in reserve and never touch it. This will save you from casting and reloading over a campfire while being attacked.

[starmac]

The lee loader doesn't take much room and just simply works, but it has it's drawbacks or limits.
The only one I ever used was for 300 savage in my 99, it worked fine, however it didn't size the cases so I couldn't chamber the rounds I loaded out of a friends brass. He could chamber mine though.

In a scenario like you are talking, the above advise makes a lot of sense. I would probably rely on a 22 more than anything, and may even fall back to the old muzzle loader.

[FLDad]

Do those arbor press dies from Wilson or Sinclair do a FL size? You're going to have a mallet for the Lee set. Maybe you can add a full-length sizer to the Lee set without going crazy. I get the point about loaded rounds (and a few bricks of .22 lr don't take up much space), but a SHTF scenario suggests that eventually the ammo will be gone. Besides, any excuse to hand load is good enough for me.

[DeanWinchester]

The best choice would be loaded rounds. You can get an awful lot of cartridges in the space your reloading/casting equipment takes up.

Are you going to lug around containers of powder, primers and lead ingots too?

My advice is have a quantity of ammo you have in reserve and never touch it. This will save you from casting and reloading over a campfire while being attacked.



Done that...:castmine:
Looking more toward the next post below.


, but a SHTF scenario suggests that eventually the ammo will be gone. Besides, any excuse to hand load is good enough for me.

Right. I'm talking about replenishing the stores with what I find or barter with. Also, my stuff works well in my rifle. Probably won't work worth a hoot in yours[anyone's] BUT, if I can take your brass and reload it for you wouldn't be willing to share some them cans of potted meat?

My mind wanders off to places I'm not sure it has any business going. I try to keep it in the here and now where it belongs but I've got little control over that.:bigsmyl2:

[starmac]

I have an idea that if I somehow got myself in that scenario, I probably have enough on hand to outlast me in a survival mode, ammo would likely be the last of my worries.

[DeanWinchester]

I never said it was sensible.

[starmac]

I hear you, I have had thoughts similar, like which one gun I would hang on to, to do everything. lol I'm luckier than others in that regard as I have never had the need for a whole lot of calibers.

[DeanWinchester]

I hear you, I have had thoughts similar, like which one gun I would hang on to, to do everything. lol I'm luckier than others in that regard as I have never had the need for a whole lot of calibers.

Funny you say that. I went through a purge a couple of years ago ridding myself of a dozen different calibers. 4 pistol calibers and two rifle calibers will do everything TN will ever demand of me. 9mm, 38/357, 45 acp and 45 colt [in a Ruger;-)] teamed with 308 and .223. If ever I am confronted by something they can't handle, I give up.

[Catshooter]

For me, the Lee Loader is out for the noise made while using it. They're fine other than that.

I would love a Lee hand press, if was made out of steel. There is no way I'd trust one though made as they are. So they are out.

My choise is the Lyman 310. I have both large and small steel handles that take the interchangable shell adaptor. They work and work well.

They do not full length size though and sooner or later you can have to do so. So I bought some of the old Lyman hammer in sizers. Noisy but it's not required all the time, just now and again.


Cat

[Wayne Smith]

My choice is Huntington's hand press. I would pack at least two or three common sets of dies so I could provide handloads for trade if necessary. This is assuming I have transportation other than my feet.

[MtGun44]

Thought about this a bit and the real issue for "after the fall" is getting primers and powder.

Not easily solved if normal supplies are truly gone.

Bill

[1bluehorse]

:groner:

[jmorris]

The best choice would be loaded rounds. You can get an awful lot of cartridges in the space your reloading/casting equipment takes up.


Are you going to lug around containers of powder, primers and lead ingots too?


My advice is have a quantity of ammo you have in reserve and never touch it. This will save you from casting and reloading over a campfire while being attacked.



1st answer and spot on.


To answer your question I use a 2" press mount when I am out working up loads. Here it is set up with a progressive. 10 minutes with this setup would produce more ammo than you could, with a reloading setup that fits into a 50cal ammo can, all night by a campfire.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/gn/3533895716_0a7f11a958.jpg

[jmorris]

How about a flintlock and learn how to make your own BP? Anything else and you will run out of primers or powder someday, if they don't get ruined before you use them.

Then again a fishing pole is a pretty good idea too.

[starmac]

Traps, snares and knowledge, but not near as fun to talk about. lol

[Beagle333]

Make it two votes for taking a muzzleloader.:smile:

[1bluehorse]

You can have all the guns and reloading stuff you want. I'll take a couple good plow horses with accessories (plow, harnass, etc)forge, hammers, axes, sharpening wheel, misery whip, couple tons of diffferent seeds, oh, sorry, forgot, only guns work for SHTF scenarios on a reloading forum...:oops:

[Ben]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=148727

[LUBEDUDE]

1st answer and spot on.


To answer your question I use a 2" press mount when I am out working up loads. Here it is set up with a progressive. 10 minutes with this setup would produce more ammo than you could, with a reloading setup that fits into a 50cal ammo can, all night by a campfire.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/gn/3533895716_0a7f11a958.jpg



AAAGGGHHHH, AAAGGGHHHH, AAAGGGHHHH,AAAGGGHHHH, AAAGGGHHHH!!!!!!

in my Tim the Toolman Taylor grunt.

MORE POWER! :drinks:

[1hole]

"I'll take a couple good plow horses with accessories "

Ditto. All the day dreaming about living off the land out of a back pack aside, where would you go to do it? How many others would be there before you get there, how many would follow and how long would the game last when the world becomes a 'free fire' zone?

Few - if any of us today - have the skills to survive long in a wilderness situation for long no matter what firearms and reloading tools we may carry around; big game would spoil too quickly to last long and precious few today know how to make jerky, etc, over an open fire so small game would be the best bet for living. That means small game is the better food choice and for that we would need a .22 rifle and as much ammo as could be carried. A .22 is quite enough not to attract attention/competition from distant places and the supply of birds, squirrel, 'coon, 'possom, etc. will last much longer than bigger game.

[starmac]

My grand parents, great uncles, and basically all people lived off of game, beef, hogs and other large animals, without refrigeration. A lot of people canned it and I still know folks that can their moose, fish and other meats, it is not hard and anyone can learn.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Amazing what human beings can do when they have to, rather than want to. I haven't forgotten how to hunt small game, fish for "eating" fish and methods of smoking meats, etc. to preserve them. I don't want to do that, but can if I have to. I also know how to farm and how to keep seed for the next year.

There is a point if things deteriorate down to that living is impossible without some sort of society being formed. In the absence of national, state and city governments, communities will form some sort of government to maintain safety and manage local resources. In those times, the decent men will arm themselves or be armed ready to form the smaller communities. From those small communities come the basis to form larger ones and so on. This happened in Europe during the dark ages and can happen again here, if circumstances demand it.

[jmorris]

With more thought on the subject I think if SHTF I would get extra range cubes as the cows eat them out of our hand. No "hunting" and they taste better than any "wild" game. I figure all I would need to do is make sure all of the SHTF city slickers didn't pick my place to "bug out" to. If I have to reload by a campfire I've already lost.

[Junior1942]

Here's a campfire bullet casting and loading article: http://www.castbullet.com/reload/campcast.htm

Here's a reloading in a tent article: http://www.castbullet.com/reload/tentload.htm

Both articles contain pictures of the "kit" used and a detailed list of equipment used. Don't badmouth Lee Precision if you intend to prepare for SHTF situations. Both the Lee whackit loader and the Lee hand press are must haves. The hand press is made of aluminum, yes, but so are airplanes.

[PlainsHunter]

Thanks for those links Junior1942, great info.

[starmac]

I have used the lee loader, but not the hand loader.
From reviews that I have read, it seems the lee hand loader is proven to be a decent reliable product.

[1hole]

"I still know folks that can their moose, fish and other meats, it is not hard and anyone can learn. "

True enough, as stated. A couple of observations to consider anyway:

1. It may be a bit hard to learn how to can food fast enough to be of any help when living in the wilderness during in a SHTF senerio.

2. Canning in the wilderness may be quite a bit more difficult when you're short of 'cans' and working over a campfire; it takes a LOT of Mason jars - and new lids - to save a hog or deer or etc. so anyone hoping to live that way had better count on using a very large back pack.

Meaning, few of us are ready to eat and live off the land for very long. The various problems and solutions are now largely unknown or simply defy comprehension for most modern folk.

[starmac]

Well if you have the jars and the means, you don't need the backpack. lol
I think I would stand a better chance by being prepared and staying put compared out of trying to carry everything needed to feed the family in a backpack. lol

[jmorris]

I guess I don't get it, the arguments against surviving without walmart or McDonalds seem a little short sighted. Sure JR won't be happy that his Xbox won't work but when the first boats carrying white guys hit the dirt here they didn't even have ziplock bags and a bunch of them made it.

The backpack campfire part I also don't get. Everytime I watch a scary movie I always tell the next person that gets killed to stay in the house and not run outside, they don't listen and its +1 for the guy with the chainsaw. You also don't see the "doomsday" folks with a backpack they have bunkers. Heck I couldn't fit everything I would want in a 40' conex much less a backpack I could carry.

So to keep it reloading, what's wrong with your current setup if SHTF?

[3006guns]

I'd second the Lyman 310.......although the Lee allows full length resizing, a big advantage. Now if they just "discovered" a material OTHER than aluminum, say steel?

Anyway, 1k of primers a couple pounds of powder and a few boxes of boolits really don't take up a lot of space. I know because I've done it just for the fun of it. I packed my 310, three hundred primers, one container of Trail Boss and a margarine tub full of 8mm boolits for my Yugo Mauser into a .50 caliber can and still had lots of room. I was also the only guy on a weekend camping/shooting trip who didn't "run out" of ammo....;)

[UNIQUEDOT]

I'd second the Lyman 310.......although the Lee allows full length resizing, a big advantage. Now if they just "discovered" a material OTHER than aluminum, say steel?

While i like a good heavy duty bench mounted press such as the cc or cc turret i don't see a handicap with the little lee hand press being made out of aluminum as it makes it lighter and more convenient to pack, besides i don't think you would get too far telling the Dillon 550 and 650 users that Dillon needs to discover cast iron or steel so why try to convince Lee users it's inadequate?

[starmac]

Has any members here actually broken one of the lee hand loaders, just curious.

[1hole]

"I think I would stand a better chance by being prepared and staying put compared out of trying to carry everything needed to feed the family in a backpack. lol"

IF I lived in the Fairbanks area I'd probably agree. But I don't and neither do many of us.

[starmac]

"I think I would stand a better chance by being prepared and staying put compared out of trying to carry everything needed to feed the family in a backpack. lol"

IF I lived in the Fairbanks area I'd probably agree. But I don't and neither do many of us.

In all actuality many states are way better suited to try to live off the land, if it ever come to it alaska (anywhere in it) will be a poor place to be period, and would not support many that didn't prepare for it.

[waksupi]

In all actuality many states are way better suited to try to live off the land, if it ever come to it alaska (anywhere in it) will be a poor place to be period, and would not support many that didn't prepare for it.

Yep. If you just pack up ma and the kids and head for the hills, no way could you take what you need to survive a month or so. Better be moving way before hand, to stand an even chance of feeding yourself. Moving south to a more temperate climate makes a lot more sense than heading for the high country. Heirloom seeds may be a lot more useful than a bunch of guns.

[starmac]

Seeds would be pretty much mandatory, but if one does not allready grow and store the years food, he would get some kind of hungry waiting on a pack of seeds to grow something to eat.
This would be worse at different times of the year and different parts of the country.

I would imagine any good size ranch elsewhere has more head of cattle on it than what is in the whole state of alaska.
The same is true of chicken, one broiler house will likely have more than the state, one hog farm will have more hogs.
Any southern state would be much easier to go catch supper on a day in day out basis as far as fish goes, the same goes for small game up to and including deer.
Alaska does not produce much in the way of food to even come close to supporting it's population.

[Ickisrulz]

Seeds would be pretty much mandatory, but if one does not allready grow and store the years food, he would get some kind of hungry waiting on a pack of seeds to grow something to eat.
This would be worse at different times of the year and different parts of the country.

I would imagine any good size ranch elsewhere has more head of cattle on it than what is in the whole state of alaska.
The same is true of chicken, one broiler house will likely have more than the state, one hog farm will have more hogs.
Any southern state would be much easier to go catch supper on a day in day out basis as far as fish goes, the same goes for small game up to and including deer.
Alaska does not produce much in the way of food to even come close to supporting it's population.

Terrible story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless

After hiking along the snow-covered Stampede Trail, McCandless found an abandoned bus (about 25 miles west of Healy) used as a hunting shelter and parked on an overgrown section of the trail near Denali National Park, and began to try to live off the land. He had a 10-pound bag of rice, a Remington semi-automatic rifle with 400 rounds of .22LR hollowpoint ammunition, a book of local plant life, several other books, and some camping equipment. He assumed he could forage for plant food and hunt game. McCandless poached porcupines and birds. He managed to kill a moose; however, he failed to preserve the meat properly, and it spoiled.

[Junior1942]

The people who should worry the most about a SHTF scenario are those who live one tank of gas from a major metropolition area. I live about 200 miles from New Orleans. It got serious here when the city folks ran out of gas after escaping Katrina... Of course when the storm stopped the gasoline wholesalers soon fillled up all the empty convenience store tanks. Suppose the bulk plants ran out of gasoline...... Suppose the storm/etc., didn't stop. The closest major highway to your house would be lined with dead cars filled with screaming, hungry children. That is exactly what happened here.

[Ickisrulz]

[QUOTE=Junior1942;1666954]The people who should worry the most about a SHTF scenario are those who live one tank of gas from a major metropolition area. QUOTE]

That's almost everyone, isn't it?

[Greg B.]

Read a sci-fi novel about ten years ago called the Parable of the Sower that describes the break down and destruction of civil society in N. America. Interesting thing about it is that it lookes a lot like Syria today although without the obvious military presence. My guess is that here in Canada up until about WW 2 you could still live off the land with a lot of hard work. In the 18th and 19th centuries the frontier was still the "escape hatch" for those who could not tolerate the dreary opression of colonial society. If the SHTF today I think most of us would be heading for refugee camps? Probably with the amount of strife associated in such a situation a .223 rifle and a 9mm pistol would be the weapons of choice due to the availability of military ammunition on the black market etc. Living in the bush has a certain nostalgic appeal until it hits -35.

Just my $.02 worth in trying to comprehend a crazy confused world.

Greg B.

[Ickisrulz]

Read a sci-fi novel about ten years ago called the Parable of the Sower that describes the break down and destruction of civil society in N. America. Interesting thing about it is that it lookes a lot like Syria today although without the obvious military presence. My guess is that here in Canada up until about WW 2 you could still live off the land with a lot of hard work. In the 18th and 19th centuries the frontier was still the "escape hatch" for those who could not tolerate the dreary opression of colonial society. If the SHTF today I think most of us would be heading for refugee camps? Probably with the amount of strife associated in such a situation a .223 rifle and a 9mm pistol would be the weapons of choice due to the availability of military ammunition on the black market etc. Living in the bush has a certain nostalgic appeal until it hits -35.

Just my $.02 worth in trying to comprehend a crazy confused world.

Greg B.

Cities are modern marvels and able to support many more people because of technology and transportation: sewers, water systems, power grids, and goods brought in from farms and ranches.

People can still live off their own land (an acre or two in some cases) and many of them do by gardening, raising meat animals, having their own well and septic system. But...there just isn't enough land for everyone in the cities to hit the wilds and make a living. Most don't have the skills either.

Those living off their own land will have to defend what they have if things do go south.

[MtGun44]

Plow horses etc are a great idea. Need firearms to keep some dimwit from shooting
a plow horse for short term food, not recognizing or caring that he represents a decade
or more of food when used as a tool.

Bill

[Junior1942]

[QUOTE=Junior1942;1666954]The people who should worry the most about a SHTF scenario are those who live one tank of gas from a major metropolition area. QUOTE]

That's almost everyone, isn't it?Probably.