I made a checkmaker, but the checks are sticking to the ram.

[MBTcustom]

Hey there fellers, I got a question. I made a two stroke checkmaker like in the instructions floating around here for a 30 caliber checkmaker. It works like a charm, except that the checks stick on the end of the punch (2nd operation) and I have to pry them off. I was hoping for quick release like in the youtube video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAzyvYKGfA0
I cant figure what I did wrong. I have tried several different thicknesses of aluminum (ie bottom of a pop can, .009 and woodgrained flashing, .017) They both do it. I tried tapering the end of the punch, which made it a little easier but the checks still had to be pried off and they wouldn't stick to the bases very well. I also tried rounding the edge of the punch- no joy. Then I tried polishing the punch and the forming tube to no avail.
Can somebody help me out with this problem? This is the second one I have tried to make, and they both do the same thing. I want to be able to just punch em out.

[nanuk]

how about counterbore the lower section after the forming punch runs it down, the spring action makes the GC open slightly and catch the edge of the counterbore, and gets pulled off.....

does that make any sense?

[MBTcustom]

That's basically how I'm doing it now, but its time consuming, and those checks are stuck! I cant just pull on the punch and scrape the check off, I have to turn the die upside down and drop the pin in the hole several times so that it knocks the check off with the edge of the hole. Sure is frustrating because I followed the instructions closely.

[ReloaderFred]

I guess you could drill a hole through the male punch from the top and install a knockout pin..... You could just tap it to knock the finished check off the end of the punch.

Anyway, something to think about.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[jmsj]

Tim,
I had a similar issue on the .30 caliber PB gas checker I made from edsith's plans.
I agree with with what you and nanuk have said. Is your forming rod polished to a mirror finish? I was having the same issue until I put a little bullet lube on the forming rod and the problem went away. I had some Darr lube that I don't use much anymore and that is what I used.
Not sure if this will help you but it worked on mine.
Good luck, jmsj

[MBTcustom]

I have a machined finish on the pin, not a mirror at all. I tried lubing the check material, and the pin with WD-40, Kroil, 3in1 oil, and 30 weight, nothing made it turn loose. I could make it so that it hits a hard surface at the end of the stroke witch would "coin" the check slightly, but then the next check would come down right on top of the previous one unless it was moved every time, which slows down the process.

[HollowPoint]

I'm having a similar situation with the Boat-Tailed gas check prototype dies I just finished up yesterday.

I found that if I made the dimensions of my forming cup just a hair larger it gives me just enough space to allow my gas check to form; and then the gas check itself still stays on the tip of my forming rod but, I can pull it right off with a minimum of effort rather than having to pick it off with a screw driver.

Because I'll be using a Lee-type push through sizing die, my push-through-rod will have the same beveled shape-cup at the tip as the Boat Tailed shape of my gas checked bullet so, if the check itself comes out even a little bit loose, pushing it up through the sizer should swage it down to its intended size.

I think if I polished the tip of my forming rod as has been suggested, the gas check would then stay down in the bottom of my forming cup. Then I'd have to push it up and out rather than just using my finger tips to pull it off the end of my forming rod.

Since this is just an initial prototype I'm not to concerned about the Checks sticking either on the forming rod or the forming cup. I'm kind of encouraged that goodsteel has encountered the same problem. I thought I was doing something wrong too.

This appears to be a common occurrence with these types of gas check dies. The 30 caliber dies I got from Pat Marlins did the same thing at first. After using it a while it seems to have worn itself down to where the finished checks stay down in the forming cup.

HollowPoint

[Swede44mag]

I have made 2 FreeCheck III makers according to Ed's directions and used a piece of brass for the forming rod I have had no problems with the checks releasing.
I slightly rolled the edge on the forming rod and the inside of the the punch rod. Without the round edge it would shear out the center of the check.

If you are making the FreeCheck II design you may have to try a piece of brass for the forming rod also.

Just my 2 cents worth

[MBTcustom]

Thanks for the tip, that I haven't tried (making it out of brass that is) I did bevel the edge of the forming rod.

[FrankG]

Mine's polished like chrome and they slide off.

[arjacobson]

It is going to sound strange but the best luck I have had with the forming rod is to make it out of stressproof steel. I have and do use tool steel but if I run into a problem I make a rod out of stressproof. Also do NOT lube the anvil as that always makes mine stick. (weird...) Also how long is the forming part of the female die? If you make it so the anvil just forms it and then comes out the bottom it will tend to spring back enough to eliminate sticking. When I made my first one step die the forming part was .250 long. I had nothing but trouble until I shortened the length to around .150. I will actually play with the forming length depending on what caliber it is. So far .35 cal is the easiest to make work well. I have had pretty good luck with 30 cal but you have to mess with it a bit it seems. Running .22 cal works great if you can find good aluminum under .010... My bet is your forming length is too long...let us know what you find out[smilie=2:

[Mugs]

arjacobson sent you a PM.

Mugs

[MBTcustom]

It is going to sound strange but the best luck I have had with the forming rod is to make it out of stressproof steel. I have and do use tool steel but if I run into a problem I make a rod out of stressproof. Also do NOT lube the anvil as that always makes mine stick. (weird...) Also how long is the forming part of the female die? If you make it so the anvil just forms it and then comes out the bottom it will tend to spring back enough to eliminate sticking. When I made my first one step die the forming part was .250 long. I had nothing but trouble until I shortened the length to around .150. I will actually play with the forming length depending on what caliber it is. So far .35 cal is the easiest to make work well. I have had pretty good luck with 30 cal but you have to mess with it a bit it seems. Running .22 cal works great if you can find good aluminum under .010... My bet is your forming length is too long...let us know what you find out
That might be the answer right there! I think mine is a mere .5" at the moment. Thanks for the tip!

[longbow]

Not sure if it is much help now as you have several suggestions but I made a simple/crude checkmaker that works very well for me and had some sticking issues until I put a slight taper on the forming punch and polished it well.

Also, since it has been mentioned, my forming die is quite short ~ not by design but I guess by luck. When I drive the forming punch through, it is a short stroke not much longer than the check and while the checks "stick" to the punch, there is a little spring back and they pop off easily as the forming punch springs back into the forming die.

I am using old gutter material at 0.019" thick so it extrudes a bit and forms a deeper cup but they fit and work well.

So, the short story is polish, taper, short stroke seems to work for me as well.

Longbow

[arjacobson]

The short forming length is one of the tricks to make these run right. I have also found with very heavy material if you wait a second after forming that the check will tend to spring enough keep from sticking. Either way I have done some experimenting and keep learning everyday how to make these run better..:popcorn:

[JeffinNZ]

The forming mandrel needs to be polised like a mirror. ANY machining marks or scratches and it will snare. When it is like a mirror polish it length ways so that any even small imperfections are in the same direction as the check.

Next, make sure that the formed check on the mandrel completely exits for the forming orifice. As it does the check will spring back a little and if it does not fall on completely as you withdraw the mandrel the check will butt against the underside of the forming die and pull off.

[Reload3006]

Your punch needs to be tapered 1/2 degree getting smaller away from the end. .001 should do it you also need to put a small radius on the punch to break the edge and keep you from cutting. and polish it up pretty good and slightly lube it helps a lot too.