Very cute Lee Enfield

[madsenshooter]

Check this out fellows: http://www.aihpa.com/Rifle%20Projects/SMLEAR%20S2/S2%20SMLEAR.JPG

[bruce drake]

very interesting... ;) I might have to start playing around with one of my Bubba Enfields to copy that...

[Multigunner]

Seems to me a thumbhole stock would interfere with rapid follow up shots.

[Frank46]

Looks like one of the converted L39A1's in 308 that was used as a basis for this rifle. Definitely if 308/7x62nato caliber because of the magazine. Frank

[bruce drake]

Its actually in .223 but the magazine is set up for rimless cartridges. The Aussie took one of the newer made No4s that they make down there and rebarreled it and added the AR sights. The magazine for one of these conversions is usually an AR-15 magazine cutdown and inserted into the 308 sized magazine.

[zuke]

It just look's "right".

[bydand]

It may "look right" but it's FAR less valuable than the unbuggered version

[JeffinNZ]

That's pretty much what I would like to do just to annoy the authorities.

I want it chambered in 7.62x39, free standing pistol grip, 30 round magazine, bayo lug etc. All the things that I can't have on a semi. See how long it takes for the police to suggest I have an illegal rifle............thing is, it will be BOLT ACTION.

[madsenshooter]

I found this odd peep sight on ebay, thought it looked as though it would fit an early enfield, the type with the sights out on the barrel, so I bought it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/330707016191?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 I know Leroy Rice made one for the enfield, just don't know if this is one. Looks like the safety may have to be modified, if it has to go all the way forward to be off. Does it have to go all the way forward enfield shooters? In other word at what point in the arc does the safety go off?

[Multigunner]

It may "look right" but it's FAR less valuable than the unbuggered version

If its an AIA rifle there is really no unbuggered version.
Some came from AIA just as tricked out.

While some original No.4 rifles have been converted to .223, the AIA rifles only resemble the No.4 and there are great differences in the action body meant to increase rigidity.



AIA M10 series rifles incorporate a long list of improvements and refinements over the original Lee Enfield design. Their forged ordnance steel receivers are built 50% thicker to better withstand the high pressures generated by modern ammunition, the bolt head is fully enclosed, headspacing is accomplished via a Brewer (Savage type) locking collar, and the magna-fluxed 7.62x51mm barrels are free-floating for increased accuracy and chrome-lined for maximum bore life and corrosion resistance. All M10 receivers are factory drilled and tapped for an optional steel weaver scope mount and use ten round detachable magazines (the M10's mag release is forward of the trigger guard).

[zuke]

It may "look right" but it's FAR less valuable than the unbuggered version

But a lot more fun and handy! :guntootsmiley:

[Four Fingers of Death]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-REDFIELD-Unk-application-Receiver-Peep-Target-sight-Rifle-gun-parts-tang-/330711882972?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3D UA%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D330707016191%26ps%3D63%26clk id%3D7453121016646181975

Here's a Redfield sight that looks like it fits a Lee Enfield SMLE. The guy selling it doesn't know what it fits.

The owner of the grey rifle that prompted the thread has gone to a whole lot of trouble to get the M16/AR15 front sight incorporated into the design mainly for looks I supppose, but with the result of significantly raising the sights and reducing the sight radius. A home made M16/AR15 lookalike sight at or near the muzzle and just high enough to match a lower peep sight (maybe even just a Singer sight), would still look good and would allow a lot more precise aim. Actually with the gizmo stock, a low mounted optical sight would be a better bet, but the rifle was probably built to compete with open sights. Target level sight on the back and a poorly placed sight on the front, not what I would have chosen.

The thumbhole would also significantly slow down what is one of the fastest bolt guns ever. It wouldn't look anywhere as good, but would be a lot quicker to cycle with one of those target stocks with the pistol grip and the open thumbgroove. Actually if you could position a thumbrest on the starboard side, something like a fake forward assist, that would even be quicker still.

I have been thinking of getting back into Military Service Discipline Competition, which is what this wee beastie is probably used for. I have a Ross and a K31, but I really think I can operate one of my Enfields quicker. I include the M17 and P14 in that, they are a blur as well when you are used to it, the English knew their oats when it came to fast bolt guns and used the cock on closing feature that everybody else poo poos to good effect.

The straight pulls are quick, but the motion is not as fluid as a good bolt.

I need to start training and get the timer and video out and see for sure.

Nice looking rifle just the same. Lord knows what he could have bought with the money that was poured into that one.

[madsenshooter]

That's a Krag sight FFOD.

[Multigunner]

I have a near mint PH5A that I've never gotten around to mounting on my SMLE.
Its a beauty, worth what I paid for just to take it out of the box now and again and look at it.

Not sure if I'll ever mount it or not since finding a replacement MkIII windage adjustable open sight.

Still the six position sight hood with different peep sizes for differing light conditions has its attractions.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I wonder how many guys and how many "boxes of beer" it took to think this gray gun up?Robert

[Four Fingers of Death]

Actually AIPHA is the military discipline target shooting crowd, I noticed it in the link.

The Krag sight is mounted on a rail with a mount and a spacer, etc to raise it up. A lower foresight would have been easier to accommodate, but as we say not as 'War-ie' looking.

[DeanWinchester]

That poor rifle. Once it had pride and dignity. Now it's been bastardized and looks like a pile of festering **** stepped in by a three legged horse.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I wouldn't mind it, but I would do a few modifications to it first.

The rear sight would be lowered and a new foresight fitted to the end of the barrel to match the lower sight alingment.

I would file a thumb groove for my shooting hand so that I could rest my thumb on it when I fired the rifle and cycled the bolt. With the 5.56/223 cartridge, the bolt throw would be light and easy and not havign to wiggle my thumb everytime would make for a lightning fast reload.

I think that is a Sterling magazine, which are horrendously expensive and very hard to get. If I was going to chop up a magazine (which is the only way to get reliable feeding with oddball cartridges), I would have just attacked the standard mag.

[KCSO]

OMG!!!! I think I am going to be sick. Not my cup of tea for sure...

[jonk]

OMG!!!! I think I am going to be sick. Not my cup of tea for sure...

Indeed. They took a beautiful old battle rifle and turned it into something that looks like a ***... I find anything AR like to be ugly with a capital UG.

Mind you, his gun, his choice, fine with me, but I don't have to like it.

[Multigunner]

There are cases where using a Milsurp rifle to make a customised rifle is permissable.
One is when the rifle has already been modified by a previous owner to the point that restoration would not be possible or not feasible due to cost of the necessary parts to restore it.


Another is when honest damage due to a mishap has altered the rifle past economical restoration, or the necessary restoration would itself void the colectability of the rifle.
A broken away sight attachment point of the action body for example. To repair that would require welding on of a made to order part, or one cut off another unsalvageable action body.
Large DT'ed holes that can't be simply plugged. Action worn beyond normal rectification and only brought back into useable condition by use of non standard parts.

The AIA rifles having never been military issue and not built to original specs are no less suitable for customising projects than any recent manufacture sporting rifle.
Though if these are no longer available an unaltered version may soon have considerable collector interest as would any limited production sporting rifle.
Even the Jungle Carbine replicas built on No.4 bodies have some collector interest once production stopped.

[HollowPoint]

I like the fact that the builder had the balls to do something different with the mind-set of, "To hell with what anyone else thinks."

Compared to some rifle projects I've seen, this one doesn't look half bad. I wonder how it shoots? I wonder if it shoots?

HollowPoint

[Four Fingers of Death]

The post is from the AIPHA or whatever site, they shoot military rifles and have a standard class and an accurised section from memory. One of the most popular 223 conversions is done on a jungle carbine and they generally are plenty accurate, more so than the parent cartridge, but some of the guys had feeding issues when I was involved in it some 8-10 years ago. They wern't using AR mags as a base then, so maybe those issues are resolved. There were a few left handed conversions running around as well. The State champion campaigned with one, so they obviously work.

[Multigunner]

The post is from the AIPHA or whatever site, they shoot military rifles and have a standard class and an accurised section from memory. One of the most popular 223 conversions is done on a jungle carbine and they generally are plenty accurate, more so than the parent cartridge, but some of the guys had feeding issues when I was involved in it some 8-10 years ago. They wern't using AR mags as a base then, so maybe those issues are resolved. There were a few left handed conversions running around as well. The State champion campaigned with one, so they obviously work.

A lefthand Lee Enfield action would be quite a trick.
I have seen lefty conversions of other actions where the bolt handle sat horizontal when the action was locked, and the shooter pushed the handle down to the lefthand to pull back and open the action.

I'm wondering if a SMLE of No.4 could be converted to straight pull with the bolt knob on the left?
That would solve some difficulties in producing a left hand action while keeping the basic platform.
Since some Enfields were converted to selectfire with a cam action a straight pull conversion shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

Two friends like the Lee Enfields mainly because the low comb and slick action make it fairly easy to operate with the left hand, by simply reaching past the comb.

[Four Fingers of Death]

A lefthand Lee Enfield action would be quite a trick.
I have seen lefty conversions of other actions where the bolt handle sat horizontal when the action was locked, and the shooter pushed the handle down to the lefthand to pull back and open the action.

I'm wondering if a SMLE of No.4 could be converted to straight pull with the bolt knob on the left?
That would solve some difficulties in producing a left hand action while keeping the basic platform.
Since some Enfields were converted to selectfire with a cam action a straight pull conversion shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

Two friends like the Lee Enfields mainly because the low comb and slick action make it fairly easy to operate with the left hand, by simply reaching past the comb.

They make the LH No4s by removing the original bolt handle and welding a new bolt handle onto the LHS of the bolt. This closed bolt's handle sits in a raised position and is pulled down towards the LHS of the stock to open the action and then pulled back to eject, pushed forward to pick up another round and then closed by raising the bolt handle. When fully forward and a new round is chambered, the bolt is in a raised position to lock the bolt shut. Crude, but effective. With the bolt closed, the new bolt handle is approximately at the 10 O'Clock position as you look down the rifle from the butt.

Strange days indeed!

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

This is the first thread I have ever seen where anybody called an enfield "beautiful". I once got to shoot one that had been restocked to look like the original that was submitted to Sharps back around 1880. It was much more attractive to the eye than the two-piece stocks the brits produced. Anything you do to a stock issue one is an improvement, including putting it into a gun case!

Rich

[pakdoyon]

Good day all,

Ok, I know this post has been inactive for quiet some time but I have found the pic of the enfield with the hogue like stock and need one. I have purchase a .303 parker-hale that is great, waiting for the stock to finalyse the project, such as cutting the barrel to 20 inches from 22; and finding a proper scope; I have a 1-4 leupold or an older weaver k3 or v9. Vintage, it would make a cool scout look a like gun.

Please let me know know where to find a similar stock.

[PAT303]

The post is from the AIPHA or whatever site, they shoot military rifles and have a standard class and an accurised section from memory. One of the most popular 223 conversions is done on a jungle carbine and they generally are plenty accurate, more so than the parent cartridge, but some of the guys had feeding issues when I was involved in it some 8-10 years ago. They wern't using AR mags as a base then, so maybe those issues are resolved. There were a few left handed conversions running around as well. The State champion campaigned with one, so they obviously work.
Robert Spittles has done heaps of 223 and 7.62 Rusky conversions on Enfields,he does very nice work. Pat

[Multigunner]

They make the LH No4s by removing the original bolt handle and welding a new bolt handle onto the LHS of the bolt. This closed bolt's handle sits in a raised position and is pulled down towards the LHS of the stock to open the action and then pulled back to eject, pushed forward to pick up another round and then closed by raising the bolt handle. When fully forward and a new round is chambered, the bolt is in a raised position to lock the bolt shut. Crude, but effective. With the bolt closed, the new bolt handle is approximately at the 10 O'Clock position as you look down the rifle from the butt.

Strange days indeed!
Till this thread was revived I had completely forgotten that the same sort of lefty conversion had at one time been done to Springfield 1903 actions.

Also I keep an eye out for unusual firearms in motion pictures and remember an Australian film where they used a No.4 with custom stock to pass for an M14 rifle. I guess the temporary bans on autoloaders had gotten to the film industry as well.
It was a seen of firing from a helicopter and it looked like they had at first used a dummy or deactivated M14 then switched to the altered No.4 for the actual shooting. Might also have been a case of not having 7.62 NATO blanks on hand.
Another sci fi film showed a professional hunter using a highly modified scoped No.1 rifle fitted with a pistol grip and bipod. That looked to be someones personal hunting or target rifle, perhaps picked up in a gunshop for use in the film.

[W.R.Buchanan]

All you naysayers can go poop. This gun was probably built from parts. The only thing Milsurp there is the action itself Everything else is Aftermarket or custom built.

I get a kick out of purists poopooing any modified gun. They made millions of Enfields and one less in the gene pool only makes the rest more valuable,,, Unless they are junk to begin,,, with which better than 50% are anyway. Then ANY Improvement of any kind should be applauded, not met with the "Oh you ruined another precious Milsurp."

I got reamed on the Gunboards Enfield site which I found out after the fact was for "Collectors Only!" for modifying my #4 that had been Sporterized by a previous owner instead of returning it to full Mil Spec even though I was creating an L39A1 Replica and the gun was not permanently modified in any way..

I didn't want a Mil Spec Gun, I wanted a shooter that I can have fun with instead of placing it in a safe to collect moss.

I like mine the way I made it! And I am the only one "I" have to please.

Surprisingly there were far more people who liked my gun, than the purists who poopoohed it,,,, so Nana NAHHHHH! I wish we had the Finger Smilie.

OH,,, and as far as a different Rear Sight,,, here's my latest abomination, based purely on my personal preference.

The mount itself is based on a common mount to adapt a Lyman or Redfield Aperture Sight to a #4 that has been around since about 1960. Both of those sights are far superior to anything available for these guns with the exception of PH5C which is a purely target sight, and rather Clunky too boot.

I had one on Ebay last week but Stopped the transaction because Ebay decided to take my max bid of $155.95US and change it to 155.95 GBP Which turned out to be $195,,Without telling me! I flipped my lid and the English seller was gracious enough to cancel the transaction. I wanted it at $150, at $200, Not so much,,, and that Redfield Olympic looks real good on there anyway.

Bet the boys over at the "Collector site" would be having indigestion over that. But since they treated me so badly and closed my thread,,, they don't get the benefit of any of my verbiage any more! Finger Smilie!

Randy

[Artful]

http://specialinterestarms.com/100_5839.JPG
http://specialinterestarms.com/index.php?page=enfield_accessories

[W.R.Buchanan]

Art: Sheer Blasphemy!

Randy

[Artful]

Randy - you know there's more
http://www.specialinterestarms.com/100_6959.jpg

http://www.enfield-rifles.com/uploads/863/IMG_1223.JPG

http://www.pyramid.net/sia/MVC-350E.JPG

http://www.specialinterestarms.com/Enf-ScoutFolder.jpg

http://www.gibbsrifle.com/images/p002_1_01.jpg

http://www.gunmart.net/images/content/militaria/1083/C.jpg

[pakdoyon]

Very nice and all, any insight on the stock itself, you know the hogue style stock. I need help here, not a pissing contest lol


this is what I have here now, 119869

I don't want the AR sight or anything, just that gorgeous stock under

119870

[Artful]

pakdoyon, sorry to say I have not found a commercial stock like that little 223 - I think it's a hand built one off. You might contact this Robert Spittles that was posted on the thread to see if he or another Aussie stock maker and make you one.

Rob Spittles at Mudgee in NSW
MEROO GUNSMITHING phone/fax (02)63737629

[pakdoyon]

thank you,

Pascal

[303Guy]

Did anyone notice that the rifle was call an SMLEAR? It's a flipping No4!


... the Gunboards Enfield site which I found out after the fact was for "Collectors Only!" Yeah, been there, didn't fit in.

Now this one tickles me. The same configuration works just fine in 303. It's not unlike my Pig Gun (the barrel part). Eye candy all of them!

http://specialinterestarms.com/100_5839.JPG

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/gf-aia-images-m10-b-series.jpg

Holy Cow! This is my 7,000'th post!

[Artful]

Holy Cow! This is my 7,000'th post!

Congratulations - you like me need to step away from the computer more.

[bruce drake]

Artful,

119882

I love that little 7.62x39 Carbine you showed with the full wood stock. :) JeffinNZ graced me with a 303 Pygmy barrel to put on a SMLE action and if I can ever find a nice enough action to match that barrel, that shortened 303 Pygmy case deserves a stockset and magazine setup like that one you pictured.

Bruce

[nekshot]

I gotta get away from this thread cause I'm starting to get funny ideas for another Lee but in 444!!!

[pakdoyon]

I need a 444, like real bad lol

[Multigunner]

I don't want the AR sight or anything, just that gorgeous stock under


With that straightline stock you'll need either high set iron sights or a high set scope mounting.
Most scope mounts for the No.4 leave the sight very high, requiring a built up or detachable cheek piece. The issue stock comb is too low for even low set scopes.

A friend had several thumbhole stocks for the FAL and I considered trying to fit one of these to a No.4 but there just wasn't enough wood there to work with.

[Artful]

Pakdoyon - found another possible for your thumbhole
Geoff Slee gunstocks
4/9 Park st
Bachus Marsh, Victoria, Australia 3340
Phone: 03 5367 7282

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=68207

[MaxJon]

Hmmm....I got an already neatly sporterized No4, with a sad barrel, 223 conversion would be awesome in 300 and 500m comps!

[tbx-4]

I always thought a Jungle Carbine clone in 7.62x39 would be a fun gun... a 5.56 conversion would be interesting too.
Might have to find me a bubba'd No4 for a conversion.

The gray stock thumbhole rifle in the original post is not my style but if it works for the owner than more power to him...

For the non-purists here's my two Jungle-fide conversions. (some of you may have seen these already)

Jungle-fide Ishapore 2A with hombrewed rear sight.
154923 154924
10 rounds at 100 yrds. Shot two magazines in a row this is the second mag. Not too bad for a hot barrel on a foggy day. Ammo: CBC 2012, M80 ball, NATO headstamp.
154931
Another rear site I made to take Williams threaded apertures.
154925

My No5 Mk1 clone made from a Parker Hale De-lux #4
154926154927
And it shoots as very good.
154928
5 shots from a cold barrel at 108 yrds with HXP '75. About 1.5" spread. With iron sights.

[Love Life]

The Gibbs Extreme Quest II is good gun as well.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Wow! I think the most surprising thing about this thread is that it got resurrected from 2012!

Hey, tbx-4, I like your rifles! I'm still a steel and wood guy.

As for the original, it's interesting, but I have to agree with one of the earlier posters that the thumbhole stock would seem to make repeat shots slower. You've got to pull your hand out of the hole to work the bolt, and no doubt with a certain amount of drag on the pistol grip by the thumb as it's pulled out. But, then again, how effective are fast repeat shots with something of that design anyway, considering the recoil and the necessity to realign the sights? So maybe the point isn't too important, especially for target shooting or even most hunting applications. Looks to be handy.

As for the old "purist" don't alter a-piece-of-history-military-rifle argument, I kind of lean in that direction and own many such that are unaltered, but there certainly are plenty of bubba-ized specimens floating around where someone else already did the deed and they are prime material for the amateur gunsmith. Get one and go for it!

[Duster340]

Well, my little Enfield is more like, "it's so ugly, it's kinda cute" LOL.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/emandm/Hunting/IMG_0209_zps5766e6ef.jpg (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/emandm/media/Hunting/IMG_0209_zps5766e6ef.jpg.html)

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/emandm/Hunting/IMG_0230_zps21d2aded.jpg (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/emandm/media/Hunting/IMG_0230_zps21d2aded.jpg.html)

[HollowPoint]

Well, my little Enfield is more like, "it's so ugly, it's kinda cute" LOL.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/emandm/Hunting/IMG_0209_zps5766e6ef.jpg (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/emandm/media/Hunting/IMG_0209_zps5766e6ef.jpg.html)

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/emandm/Hunting/IMG_0230_zps21d2aded.jpg (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/emandm/media/Hunting/IMG_0230_zps21d2aded.jpg.html)



I don't have any problems with the "Purists" preferring unaltered specimens of their favorite guns. I loose my patience though, when those same "Purists" dump on my personal preferences.

My Enfield kind of resembles the shorty pictured here and I like it that way. I can screw on my suppressor and not have an overly-long rifle to carry around when I'm out stomping around in the desert. I love this kind of stuff. I would rather look at a million bubba-fied rifles and laugh or marvel at the ingenuity that went into them than look at a million of the same old thing over and over again.

I'd love to get my hands on one of those thumb-hole stocks pictured in the original link of that grey colored Enfield. I think my shorty Enfield would look really good wearing one of those stocks.

Incidently, I wanted to inquire; someone mentioned that these Enfields have been re-chambered to 223. I thought that the pressures that the 223 function under would be to much for the No.4' receivers to handle. Have I been misinformed?

HollowPoint

[Four Fingers of Death]

It seems a shame to me to put a thumbhole stock on an Enfield, potentially the fastest operating bolt rifle, slowed dow by having to remove your thumb from the hole in the stock. makes no kind of sense to me. Looks good, but will slow you down. On a pump, auto or semi auto, the thumbhole is a very sensible option, but less so on a bolt gun.

[HollowPoint]

It's not like your thumb would be trapped in the hole any more than it is if it were wrapped around the factory Enfield grip of the butt stock with a conventional hold.

If the design was based around the aesthetic appeal I think he nailed it; at least as far as I'm concerned. If the gun was put together as a rapid fire implement, once a guy got accustomed to the feel of it I think the shooter could still pull it off easy enough. It's the springy cock-on-closing mechanism of the Enfield design that makes it a fast operating action, not the fact that it has a thumb-hole stock or not.

As a hunting gun, the pistol grip would be a plus for me. "One shot, one kill;" and you don't have to worry about rapid-succession follow up shots. I just really like this kind of stuff. Looking at it makes me wonder things like, is it accurate enough to hunt with? How heavy is it with that stock on it? What tweaks could I do to improve on this design?

What others might think of my bubba-guns never really deterred me from owning them or building them. My main concern is accuracy, safety and reliability. As long as I like the way they look and shoot, that's all that really matters to me.

To me, Bubba-Guns are like the "Rat-Rods" of the gun world. If you build them right, they shoot good no matter how they look.

HollowPoint

[rondog]

One word comes to mind.....

"Ewww!"

[MaxJon]

I'm thinking the of rebrarreling to 25-303! Anyone still shoot this old beauty? Perfect varmint rifle with style!

[Four Fingers of Death]

I'm thinking the of rebrarreling to 25-303! Anyone still shoot this old beauty? Perfect varmint rifle with style!

Have a sniff around, you can find decent sporters for less than half the cost of rebarrelling. Where are you? My mate had one or two.

[MaxJon]

I'm in Victoria Four fingers. But I am keen to build on my action.

[scattershot]

I like it.