Lee 452-255 rf loads

[DrCaveman]

I have this mold on order, but I am having trouble finding loads listed for this exact boolit in 45 acp. For some reason I am on a trend of loading 'heavy for cartridge' boolits these days, so here I am.

The loads I have found which fit the bill have almost all used Unique powder. Since I haven't yet entered the world of Unique (although its seems to be a very big world, with many possibilities), I would appreciate any tested loads that y'all might recommend with the following powders:

Ramshot competition (maybe too fast)
Hodgdon Titegroup (even faster)
Trail boss (maybe insufficient case volume for optimal load)
Alliant 2400 (too slow by some people's opinion)

Since Unique falls pretty well between these extremes, it may very well be my ticket, and I think I will buy some soon. In the meantime, can anyone help me out? I was hoping for at least 800 fps, and my gun can handle +p loads just fine.

Or maybe suggest a powder which can deliver what I am looking for. FWIW, I cannot get my hands on any Accurate Arms powders locally. I have been wanting to try #5 and #7 for a while but no luck.

Thanks!

[Grapeshot]

I've used this bullet since it came out in the 1970's. It's a great bullet for .45 Colt and .45 Auto Rim. I still use it in the .45 ACP using unique. I start with 5 grains and increase in .5 grain increments. I found that 5 grains will work the action on the M1911 and 6 grains is a bit stiff in the recoil dept.

I recommend Ken Waters book "Pet Loads Vol 2" published by Wolfe Publishers. He has a section on heavy bullets in the .45 ACP.

My M1911A1 and my M1917 S&W really like this bullet. Just be sure to Champher the case mouths as the brass will cut into the bullet and leave a lead ring around the case mouth. This will interfere with chambering.

Enjoy.

[DrCaveman]

Grapeshot

Do you have any recommendations for finished cartridge length, using this boolit for 45 acp? I am having trouble getting the round to freely fall in and out of my removed barrel, it seems that it's shape is engaging the rifling or start of the barrel.

The gun is a CZ 97. Maybe I have throat issues, and I have led myself to think that I should taper the start of the barrel.

Those issues aside, when I seat to the crimping groove, my COL is about 1.215". Is this about right? Not much room for powder, guess I will use a fast one! I'll bet 5 gr Unique would compress a bit, but I'll have to try it out.

[Grapeshot]

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with a CZ97. As for the COL, I crimp in the crimp groove for my revolvers and seat that bullet so the crimp groove is just past the case mouth, then run them up the taper crimp die for the .45 ACP. As long as they fit in the Magazine and feed reliably I'm a happy shooter.

Yes, it does sound like the boolit is engaging the rifling as it is chambered. I had the same problem with my M1911A1 until I made sure that the case mouths were champhered so that during the seating process the case mouth would not scrape any lead off of the nose and leave a ring of lead just ahead of the case mouth. You might want to seat the boolit a couple of thousandths deeper into the case.

Seat a few Dummy Rounds,(no primer or powder), and check fit and function.

[DrCaveman]

Update: I saw your suggestion about chamfering in your previous post, but opted against it since the bullets seated so easily. Perhaps this was the wrong move on my part, and I will try it.

As for the actual COL, it actually measures 1.17". This definitely makes it the shortest 45 acp round I have built. After loading up 5 rounds, however, I manually cycled them through my gun (pointing in a safe direction, finger well away from trigger...but it still makes me a little nervous) and they all seemed feed just fine, and the gun went into battery. So I am optimistic about function.

As for powder charge, it seems that 5.5 gr unique fit fine without compression, so I will use that powder for trial runs.

Beautiful sunny day here, time to stop typing and head for the woods! Hopefully I can give some range reports tonite, with pics.

Thanks for the help!

[Wolfer]

I've shot several of that boolits little brother the 452-200 RF. same situation, I had to have the boolit seated with the start of the ogive at the case mouth. These were accurate enough and sometimes I could get a full clip without a jam but not very often. I then went to the
452-228 1R but it was no better. I then went to the Lyman 452-421 and with its long snout it functions 100 % but accuracy is about 6 inches at 20 yds.

My barrel slugs @ .452 but a cartridge can't be bigger than .450 after about .010 out of the case.
I guess the next mold I'll try is the 452-230 TL, it appears to have a shoulder on it that might work.
I've shot thousands of the 452-255 RF through a 45 colt with great results.
Good luck in your endeavor.

[DrCaveman]

Woofer -what gun are you using?

I got to shoot these little thumpers yesterday, and was very pleased with the results. The only real downside was that the top bullet in the magazine was resistant to loading, it seems to get stuck on the feed ramp. I found that if I racked the slide quicker this did not happen.

Once the first round was loaded, all the rest loaded without fail. POI was different than with 230 gr RN, but not too severe at 20 yds. No leading. Boolits were sized to .452, double lubed with straight LLA, seated to COL of 1.17". Powder charge was 5.5 gr unique.

Accuracy seemed great when I held steady. I find that it takes me 100 rds or so to start shooting the 45 good each time I have a session. The ruger gp100 drives tacks immediately. Not sure what is up with that, but hey, that's why I reload and cast, so I can shoot 300 rds for about $15.

[DrCaveman]

Another interesting experience of the day involved commercial cast boolits.

I was having to load these rounds excessively deep (I thought) in order for them to chamber properly. Too long would prevent gun going into battery. My COL was routinely 3-8 hundredths under those stated in manuals. Accordingly, I stayed pretty conservative with my powder charges, and since the 45 acp supposedly reaches dangerous pressures before any sort of typical high-pressure signs show themselves, I thought I was stuck.

On a whim I decided to try sizing the store bought rounds to 452. Heck, it wasn't a whim, I just received the sizing die in the mail, it was sitting there, wanting to be used... But that wasn't why I bought it. So I lightly coated the boolits with LLA, let em dry a while, ran them through the sizer, and applied a second light coat.

Now those same bullets can be seated to manual specs (1.27" or so) and they feed 100% reliably. And I just bought myself a little more case capacity. And leading is GONE.

A minor victory, to be sure, and one that others have likely experienced, but it was very satisfying. Just wanted to share.

[Wolfer]

My gun is a Ballester Molina, made in Argentina. Don't know the year of manufacture but for me to buy it on my C and R license it had to be over 50 yrs old when I bought it 12/15 years ago. It's all original except the front sight and has been used hard.

It rattles pretty good when you shake it and with all the slop it functions 100% with Ball ammo or the 452-421 @ 255 gr

Shooting the 200 gr RF or the 228 1R accuracy runs about 4 in @ 20 yds or a little better which I feel is about all I can expect from this gun. The 255 gr Keith boolits ran between six and eight inches with velocity @ 700 fps. I ran these on up above 800 with unique but accuracy was no better if as good. I don't like crowding the old girl.

I'm a revolver man and this is the only semi auto I own and I don't shoot it much. This is why I haven't worked the bugs out

I think a lot of guns will function with your boolit mine just needs throated or a different mold.

[nitro-express]

I use the LEE 452-255-RF in my 45 Long Colt, IMO it wouldn't be my first choice for the 45 Auto.

Of course, that is just my opinion.

As far as seating depth and reliably feeding; which is a function of bullet shape, OAL and of course the gun. I am fairly new to the 45 Auto and my cast bullet, (store bought), doesn't have any reloading data specific to the bullet. It is 230 grains, so I used a starting load and chronographed the load to see where I was.

I wasn't able to search out any decent guidelines for OAL and eventually came up with a quick method to determine the maximum length of a loaded round for my bullet.

The 45 Auto headspaces on the mouth of the case, so the mouth of the case must have an unencumbered access to the end of the chamber. Absolutely nothing should inhibit it's entry. A simple check is the plunk test, and I just expanded upon that line of thought.

I just place an upside down, resized 45 Auto brass on top of the bullet. Most autos will tolerate a bit of gap, so I seat the bullet until I have a bit of gap. Not too technical, but if the gap is minimal, the round will feed reliably, all thing considered. You obviously need to stay within the SAAMI max OAL of 1.275 and the min OAL of 1.190

https://i.imgur.com/dF0Y3EB.jpg

For my combo the OAL is 1.225".

Caveat: My load is for shooting Wild Bunch, and that game has a fairly low minimum power factor of 150, therefore with my 230 gr bullet my load is not screaming fast. It chronos at a bit under 700 fps.

IMHO you do not want to have any lead touching the end of the chamber, ever.

Nitro

[littlejack]

Although this is an old post, I will put in my .02 for any interested folks.
The Speer #12 Reloading Manual, has load data for the 45acp with their (discontinued) Speer jacketed 260 grain round flat point HP. The profile is very close to the Lee 255 rnfp. I have loaded and shot the Lee slug using this data. I was at first a little unsure about the powder charges listed, so I call Speer and talked to one of their technicians. Although the 260 grain jacketed rnfp hp had been discontinued, he assured me that the data was correct and I should have no issues. The jacketed 260 grain stands .680 in length, as compared to the Lee 255 at .625
In length. So, seated to the same col, leaves just a little more space above the powder. The max load charge for Unique is listed at 6.3 grains, with a velocity of 821 fps. Myself, I was using the max charge of Herco, as I had lots of that powder. At 6.8 grains and a listed velocity of 847 fps, accuracy was very good, and my 1911 functioned properly.
This data is listed in the Speer #12 Manual, which was printed in 1994, so use at your own risk. More recent manuals show a significant drop in powder charges with lighter bullet weights.
Hope this helps.
Regards

[3leggedturtle]

The Hogdgon pamphlets have data for 260 jacketed bullet in 45 auto. I have been using HS7 since i bought 8lbs of it, with 255gr Lee. Ive only shot it in my Contender carbine barrel. Been meaning to try it in my Blackhawk and 1911 but haven't as yet.

[littlejack]

Are those Hodgdon pamphlets recent?

[3leggedturtle]

Are those Hodgdon pamphlets recent? i have 3 from mid90's, 2003 and about 2015, I will find them later tonite. Todd

Heaviest bullet they show with Titegroup is 230gr......