45 ACP CB No lands and grooves after shot

[Unlucky1]

Here is what I have
Pistol: Hi-Point 45 ACP
Mold: Lee 6 cavity 230 grain RN TL (micro groove) .042 diamater
Lee .042 sizing die
Lee 4 die set
Barrel Slug: .041
Powder- Hogdon TiteGroup 4.2 Grains
Boolit Lube 45% LLA 45% JPW 10% Mineral Spirits


Situation:
1. I am a newbie to casting and loading but trying to get things worked out. I am on a limited buget but want to make and load the best boolits I can within my financial means at this time.

2. I cast about 100 boolits and ran them through my sizer to make sure they were not deformed.... I made my custom tumble lube 45 45 10 above, lubed before sizing and after.

3. Went through the process of loading my boolits using seating and crimping die and not the Factory Crip Die. (I have been testing.)

4. Took 50 rounds to the range and shot and things seemed to go fairly well but I picked up some lead behing my target and beleive I found 2 of my cast boolits. They had no rifling marks on them.

5. When I returned home I checked my barrel for leading and had a very small amount of leading in the edge of the grooves. I cleaned it out.

6. I have some soft lead and poored my own slug using a 45 acp cars and used a bullit pulling hammer to pup it out and drove it about an inch down my barren and drove it out and measured it the best I coule with calipers (7 lans and grooves, spun the slug slowly in my caliper to try to fine the higest reading) Came up with .451.

7. Measured my cast Boolits and the motom of the boolit (after sizing and lubing ..) was .452 and the top flat was hit and miss at .452 - .451. The Micro Grooves appear to be all .451. I am not sure if this is normal.

8. After reading the forum thoughs and opinions I thought I had figured it out. I was thinking that when I seating my boolit and the sizing die took the bell off the top and sized the case, it was shrinking my boolit so I loaded a boolit into an unprimed case and seated the boolit and ran it through the die and then used a bulet puller to pull it and the boolit saize appeared to be at .452. (Should be fine as far as I can figure).



Now I am frustrated but I not willing to give up. I really could use some thoughts here to help me to prevent all leading if possible and definity figure out why my cast boolits have no lans and grooves marks. (NOTE: I can not prove they were my boolits at this time but 95% sure the ones found were mine.) Most at my range shoot FMJ. P.S. I live in Thorntown, IN North or indianapolis and would love to have a local contact to chat about reloading and casting if anyone is around my area, let me know. PM Me By the way my name is John. You can see why my handle is Unlucky1. LOL

[btroj]

How accurate we're the loads? No rifling marks is common on bullets from the berm, impact friction can easily wipe the marks from a bullet.
The ultimate test is results on target. If they shoot accurately enough for your needs and leading doesn't cause problems then I say keep doing what you are for now.

The gun and target should always be the measuring stick. If it hits where it is supposed to at the desired range then the gun likes the load well enough.

[MtGun44]

numbers on diam are wrong. should be about .451 or .452. How are you measuring?

Calipers are not accurate enough in many cases. +/- .001 so you could be off and shooting
undersized boolits, which WILL cause leading.

OK, I see farther down you get it right. .041 and .042 were confusing.

Not a fan of TL designs, but others definitely get them to work. Double lube coat would be a
start, but sounds like the diam is marginal too.

LLA is a marginal lube system. Saves money for the newbie, I understand, and it can work.
Just doesn't always. Conventional lube H&G 68 is the most reliable feeder and function in
.45 ACP. You might get a few dozen to try and see how they work. NRA 50-50 lube is a
good place to start, too.

Bill

[Unlucky1]

Yes, I meant .451. Lots of numbers off the top of my head right now. I tried a little different technique today and only used the seating/taper die for seating and use the factory crimp die to just try to take the bell off and nothing more. Not sure on the results of accuracy. It was very nice day today and I plinked about 50 rounds. I am not the best shot in the world and rode my bike to the range today. Double fun! I did not take my rest to set on the table to do some real steading today. But I am having a blast. The best part is great gas milage on my bike to go 12 miles to the range and about .04 cents a reload. (We won't count my expense on equipment if you don't tell my wife what everything costs!) i figure 1200 rounds and I will be even on expense but it is true, you don't save a lot of money, you just shoot more@!!! Thanks for the opinions so far and finding my brain fry on the plug size.

[Unlucky1]

As far a lube goes, yes after much research, it was the easiest least expensive to start with tubmle lube. You know how it goes, I bought reloading equipment and was very careful to buy at leat mid quality nut no frills and still spent a few dollars and then added the cast boolits. If I get everything figured out and enjoy the me time of reloading as i am now, I may do a little upgrading. That would probably include a lubra sizer of some sort. I really was considering pan lubing but it looked like another time consuming process that I did not want to add to my learning at this point. One thing I have learned in this forum is that there are 3000 different combinations of way of doing things successfully but those combinations do not necessarily work for every gun. Thanks for your time and keep the info comming. I am like a sponge.

[Larry Gibson]

Try the LLA straight as per the directions.

Larry Gibson

[slide]

Pan lubing is not that bad. I pan lube a lot of bullets. Buckshot makes some dandy kutters. Using them and a large pan you will be surprised. A lot of the guys push or pull the bullets out of the lube. Try it!

[Unlucky1]

BTROJ, I am still working on my accuracy so not so sure at this point. I have done a little testing with the gun in a stable position and it holds a pretty good pattern for the most part. I would say 4" from 25 yards with me shooting it sitting down resting it on a bag. Probably about right considering I am not a very good shot yet. I am trying. Now I can afford to practice. Before it was bulets or my wife a pair of shoes, and she won every time! Now its just a little garage time to myself and making and loading some boolits.

[btroj]

Keep shooting and learning. You will learn far more doing what you are doing than you can by doing anything else. Over time you will begging to see trends develop. Some things will work well, others will not.
You are on the right path.

[MtGun44]

If you are getting 4" at 25 yds from a bargain pistol with you loads, you are doing very
well, I would say. Spending many, many times the money you spent on the Highpoint
and using expensive Federal Match ammo will get you from 4" down to 1.5" or so, not
a big change. Highpoint is not a target pistol, but I have read multiple sources that say
it is not junk, either. Apparently they manage to hit the "affordable, but useable" target
pretty well. Sorry, no prizes for beauty, but price has it's own beauty, and all reports say
that they are reliable.

So, if you have stopped covering up the rifling with lead, and groups are running consistently
around 4", you should just concentrate on getting to be a better shot. Eventually, you
will find that you are being limited by your equipment, but that will be some time in the
future, and you will know when it comes.

I suggest you find a person here (I would offer but I am traveling on business now and cannot
fullfill the offer quickly) to send you about 25 .452 diam H&G 68 clones with NRA 50-50 or similar
known good lube. Load these at 1.255" LOA with your .470 crimp and see what you get.

Congratulations, have fun.

Bill

[Angus]

I too was a tumble luber in the beginning, and I put a lot of lead downrange through my Hi-Point 995 carbine, then a 41 Blackhawk, a P89, and a SRH in 480. Halfway through my time with the hand cannon I borrowed a Lyman 45 and really liked it. Soon after I tripped over a Lyman 450 for the right price and haven't looked back. Using BAC has tightened up my groups, made for a much cleaner gun, and leading is a non-issue as long as I gas check my high pressure/high velocity 357 loads.

Bang away with what you have and get to be a better shot. Keep your eyes peeled on the Swappin and Sellin forum for a 450/4500 or RCBS LAM. If you find a Lyman 45 for nothing pick it up, but I'm not a huge fan, it just seems a lot less durable, not that I ever broke one.

[Sturmcrow]

FWIW, I believe many of your responders misunderstood the problem you thought you were having. The way your title reads, it sounds like you completely filled the barrel grooves with lead, hence "no lands and no grooves." Rather, you were referring to the recovered bullets.

If you ask me, a tiny bit of lead on the edge of the grooves is not that big of a deal, particularly in a new barrel. You are probably just fine with the lube you are using, and as someone mentioned before: if you are worried about it, just do a double coat.

[runfiverun]

and with 7 lands they are gonna be quite shallow.
you will most likely only see impressions and not definate cuts into the boolits body.
the t/l design boolits will make seeing them even worse.
just keep on shooting.

[Good Cheer]

From a revolver guy...
Does bumping up matter in autos?

[Bullet Caster]

^What do you mean by "bumping up"? I reload for my Norinco .45ACP and have not had any leading problems. Of course I use the Lee .451 228 gn. 2 ogive radius and tumble lube them. I then run them through my .451 sizer, load 'em up and shoot 'em. I did recover one of my cast boolits and it had land and groove marks in the lead. I've since remelted it and it is another boolit somewhere in the "box 'o boolits" I have cast for the .45 ACP. I am going to use the same boolit in my .45 Colt clone only sized at .452. That should save some lead by not using my Lee 255 RNFP mould. Of course I'll have to change my powder charge as well. BC

[turtlezx]

rifling in hipoints are about 1/2 as deep as most guns
check that the bullets aren;t tumbling thru the paper target.
i have the same gun and mold and mine tumbled (bullet) not the lube
had to switch bullets to get them to fly straight

[Good Cheer]

^What do you mean by "bumping up"? I reload for my Norinco .45ACP and have not had any leading problems. Of course I use the Lee .451 228 gn. 2 ogive radius and tumble lube them. I then run them through my .451 sizer, load 'em up and shoot 'em. I did recover one of my cast boolits and it had land and groove marks in the lead. I've since remelted it and it is another boolit somewhere in the "box 'o boolits" I have cast for the .45 ACP. I am going to use the same boolit in my .45 Colt clone only sized at .452. That should save some lead by not using my Lee 255 RNFP mould. Of course I'll have to change my powder charge as well. BC

The boolit trying to increase in diameter.
I'm going to try a flat round nose (old 45Colt contour) with the length set to 235 grains. Using the gas check plug instead of the plain base and will see what happens.

[Unlucky1]

thanks all for the feedback. i have changed back to the taper crimp and made fine adjustments over and over, lots of boolit pulling and measuring and throwing boolits back in the pot. I think I have it down pretty good. i get a little leading slight, on the edge of the grooves. And the comment above about my grooves not being very deep is definitly true. I am holding a tight enough pattern for my shooting for now and I do not see any holes in my target that look like the boolit went through it sidways or anything. I ended up using 4.2 grains of titegroup with my 230 grain tl rn cast boolits. Again, thanks all. On a side note, I do have someone that is going to email me some cast boolits or different types to try as well. I would like totry swc but not sure my pistol will like them. We will see!!! Have a great day all. P.S. I have not tried to not size the boolits yet as I made and sized them all a while back but I am going to try that on my next batch and see if unsized helps or hurts or neither. If it helps or neither, I may drop that step. most of them have little resistance when sizing.