Where did 13 ounces of Lead go?

[dbarnhart]

If you point fingers, call me anal retentive, chuckle and walk away that's ok. my feelings won't be hurt. This comes from being an engineer at heart and a tendency (or so I'm told) to analyze things to death.

The last several casting sessions I've been noticing that the boolit count is a bit shy of where it should be for the amount of lead I thought I was using so this morning I weighed everything:

- Weight of lead before casting: 18.5 pounds
- Weight of finished boolits: 17.5 pounds
- Weight of dross and a few left over scraps: 3 ounces

I'm trying to figure out where the missing 13 ounces went. I ran the Lee bottom pour pot until it was dry so there is no lead there. there's no lead in a ladle or anything. It is a puzzle.

[Larry Gibson]

Accuracy of scale?

Different containers holding lead and then bullets?

Your math:kidding:

Maybe it's just all covered by the "FM":-D

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

did you weigh the lead before putting it in the lee pot?
i can assure it didn't evaporate.
everytime you open the mold you get small amounts of shavings that can add up to quite a bit.
13 oz's no 2 oz's yes.
a lee 20 lb pot does not hold 20 lbs it's more like 18, neither does thier 10 lber it's more like 8.

[stubshaft]

The Lead Fairy, he's the Tinsel fairies Cousin.:kidding:

[ku4hx]

Tolerance stacking.

[SlippShodd]

I confess. I took it.
:mrgreen:

mike

[Tatume]

I'm trying to figure out where the missing 13 ounces went. I ran the Lee bottom pour pot until it was dry so there is no lead there. there's no lead in a ladle or anything. It is a puzzle.

Actually, I've been wondering about this for quite some time myself. A loss of more than 5% is significant, if not particularly important (to a hobbyist). Anyway, I've known for some time that the equation doesn't balance, so if you figure it out I'm very interested in knowing too.

Take care, Tom

[bumpo628]

Could be water, if you're talking about raw WW.

[Blammer]

check the scraps on the floor. :)

[Katya Mullethov]

That was " The Angel's Share " .

[dbarnhart]

I start with range lead that has been smelted and turned into muffin ingots by someone else. I weighed each one and added up the weights. then I weighed the pile of finished boolits. There was a little dross and a very tiny bit of scraps on the floor totaling about 3 ounces.

It's a puzzle. :-)

[AndyC]

That was " The Angel's Share " .
No, no - angels work on the booze. Plumber's share, perhaps?

[theperfessor]

Lead tax - I know you guys can figure out how to blame it on Obama if you try hard enough.

[AndyC]

Excellent idea - done!

http://i43.tinypic.com/200fjnb.jpg

[Katya Mullethov]

Some of them drink and shoot at the same time . At least their friends do , that's how they got to be angels .

[1845greyhounds]

I start with range lead that has been smelted and turned into muffin ingots by someone else. I weighed each one and added up the weights. then I weighed the pile of finished boolits. There was a little dross and a very tiny bit of scraps on the floor totaling about 3 ounces.

It's a puzzle. :-)

If the apparent weigh loss is consistent from batch to batch, then your scale isn't very linear. Meaning, it's not calibrated properly at one or both of the absolute weights you are measuring (individual ingots & total bullets). In this case, your scale is reading high for the individual ingots.

If you don't always lose the same %, then the issue probably has more to do with rounding error and tolerance stack of your individual ingot measurements. Summing all those inaccuracies can add up (or down).

It could also be a combination of these things...

Try weighing all of your ingredients combined and comparing to your finished bullets. I bet you see a conservation of mass.

[fcvan]

lead and alloy, while valuable, is not as valuable as a cast boolit which now is in my opinion - golden. Lead is measured in standard ounces and gold is measured in troy ounces. Maybe there was something lost in the conversion . . . Frank

[10 ga]

Don't worry, you just got taken! The ingots were hollow and you bought 13oz. of air bubbles. My SWAG anyway. LOL, 10

[AndyC]

13oz of lube-grooves :)

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Funny dbarnhart,

Have a friend in this area who has the same affliction an you. [smilie=l:

And yes, sometimes it is funny sometimes not, almost to the point of telling him to get a life. :groner:

One way or the other, guess we're stuck with both of you! :kidding: :kidding:

And you think you have a problem! Today a new sinker mold arrived, one cavity each of 5 & 6oz. You think your coming up short on lead. Not sure I can deal with leaving 5 & 6oz. sinkers on the river bottom.

Every 6oz. sinker left on the bottom equals 5.6451612 of my 465gr cast boolits.

Sorry I couldn't get that figure any closer for ya!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[UtopiaTexasG19]

You lost it to inflation...

[sargenv]

I chalk it up to "the same place where all of the missing socks go from the dryer"...

[jsizemore]

The condors and bald eagles ate it.

[dbarnhart]

Well, at least you guys will help me keep from taking this problem too seriously. ;-)

[Stick_man]

I was going to offer up the reason of an Obama tax, but ThePerfessor beat me to it. So the real reason is probably the Lead Fairy sneaking it when you aren't looking to give to the Tinsel Fairy (supposedly his cousin) for practice. Since most of us do not cast 24/7, the TF gets bored and needs something to keep in practice with. THAT's where your 13 oz of missing lead went. Either that or it got beamed up by aliens.

:brokenima

[dbarnhart]

That's it!!!!! Aliens!!! They stole it so they can analyze it to find a way to overcome the tinfoil hats!!!

[nvbirdman]

Did you leave a boolit in the mould?

[1bluehorse]

Seems to be quite a lot. Almost a pound out of 18.5lbs. 5%....whudda thunk..

[johnho]

Dbarnhart, I'm an engineer too and that would drive me nuts. I think someone hit it with that scale. Almost a pound out of 18.5 means something is off and I vote for the scale.

You think you have it bad, I have two forms of ingots: corn cob things and fish things. Corn ingots weight 1.1 pounds each and the fish weight 1.6 pounds each. Figured that out by weighing 10 of each and then dividing. So far so good. I then counted each one and keep a chart with my inventory. I started out with almost 3,000 pounds so that's a lot of little buggers. Every time I cast I have to keep track of how many of each I use so I keep a running total of remaining inventory.

I dread the day I end up with no more ingots and still have 150 pounds in paper inventory. or I run out of paper inventory and still have ingots left-the horror.

Oh, suggestion on the 13 ozs: use all your weights to the nearest pound and the problem will go away eventually. :popcorn:

[dbarnhart]

May have found it.

I weighed the ingots on Scale A.
I weighed the finished boolits on Scale B.

A quick comparison shows that scale A reads approximately 4.3% heaver than scale B.

So no aliens or lead fairies, darn it.

[Alchemist]

Different scales??? Shazam!!

[mpmarty]

Try my old favorite excuse: THE DOG ATE IT

[Centaur 1]

Today a new sinker mold arrived, one cavity each of 5 & 6oz. You think your coming up short on lead. Not sure I can deal with leaving 5 & 6oz. sinkers on the river bottom.

Every 6oz. sinker left on the bottom equals 5.6451612 of my 465gr cast boolits.

Sorry I couldn't get that figure any closer for ya!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

I did a lot of jetty fishing when I was younger, if you weren't losing sinkers you weren't catching fish. I would collect used spark plugs, sand blast and clean them, then close the electrode gap. The standard rig used a 3-way swivel, the line that ran from the swivel to the sinker(spark plug:D) was a lighter pound test than the fishing line and the leader. When I got hung up on the rocks, I would pull hard enoughto beak the line going to the spark plug. All you have to do is tie another piece of line, then tie on ol' sparky. Since I started casting boolits I just can't justify making sinkers from boolit lead. I bet the new zinc wheel weights would make good sinkers.

[Casper29]

I wonder if the weight is differnt between what was in the pot and what you melted into bullets, we all no the lead get harder as it sits. maybe???

[steg]

Of course Obamma did it, but it's for your own good, somehow............

[Moonie]

Try my old favorite excuse: THE DOG ATE IT

My dog avoids the casting shed since I discovered dogs like peanut butter as much as mice and will stick their noses into snap traps designed for the latter, and WILL do it much faster than you notice when casting/loading.

[walterm]

big oops about using two different scales - unless of course they're certified for trade...
Now... you could study the scales and determine the scaling factor to correct the one that's off - unless of course both scales are off...

Fish for dinner - better go scrape some scales.
8-)
w

[dbarnhart]

An interesting factoid:

The scale that reads heavier is my office postal scale

The scale that reads lighter is the one in the kitchen for weighing ingredients and food portions.

:-)

[popper]

Because of the alloy, it DOES weigh less!!!! Nothing (well almost - you can laser treat it and it will weigh more, but who cares) you can do about it You didn't lose any material, except to the tinsel fairy.

[Love Life]

It's those dang garage gremlins. They are pinching your lead after they have a busy night of moving random tools, screws, and anything else you need to a different location.

I hate the garage gremlins.

[MikeS]

I don't think it was the 2 different scales, everyone knows that ALL scales weigh exactly the same. What I think is happening is that there's 13oz of another material in your ingots, one that melts at 150F and boils off completely at 400F. Yup, that's got to be it, it can't be the scales! :)

[Castlead]

Haven't you heard about 0's plan for redistribution of lead?

[NoZombies]

...everyone knows that ALL scales weigh exactly the same....

I just weighed my bathroom scale on my postal scale, and it weighs $12.97 priority to zone 3. I weighed my postal scale on my bathroom scale, and it weighs exactly 1 hamburger with fries.

[Arceagle]

I start with range lead that has been smelted and turned into muffin ingots by someone else. I weighed each one and added up the weights. then I weighed the pile of finished boolits. There was a little dross and a very tiny bit of scraps on the floor totaling about 3 ounces.

It's a puzzle. :-)

Interesting experiment, try it a few more times and post your results. It has to be somewhere it didn't disappear. My best guess is if you have double checked your math would be to try calibrating your scales. :popcorn:

[LabGuy]

Next time use the scales in the opposite order, you’ll feel better when you gain lead.

[Arceagle]

oops. sorry missed the 2nd page I didn't know you already found your problem. My favorite was the Condors eating it.

[MikeS]

I just weighed my bathroom scale on my postal scale, and it weighs $12.97 priority to zone 3. I weighed my postal scale on my bathroom scale, and it weighs exactly 1 hamburger with fries.

I rest my case! (but not on a scale!)

[popper]

Both are spring scales and neither is accurate. Accuracy will change depending on the actual weight. Your alloy does weigh less, by < .001%. That's chemistry.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Facts, that all we want mama, just the facts!

"aprox. ---- 4.3% --------" difference between the scales.

Well, was it 4.4452 % or was it 4.9335%????

Seems like we is gett'in a bit sloppy here for engineers!

Shame shame shame SHAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:kidding::kidding::kidding::kidding::kidding:

CDOC

[fcvan]

Engineers? I thought we were booliteers!

[dbarnhart]

Seems like we is gett'in a bit sloppy here for engineers!

Well, I placed a pair of ingots on each scale and here's what I got:

1. On the kitchen scale it said they weighted the equivalent of three DQ large chocolate milkshakes.

2. The postage scale is calibrated in donuts-per-mail carrier and so the conversion was rather difficult.

Add to that the fact that the nearest calculator is an old HP-12C financial calculator that wanted to display the results after factoring in Future Value and amortizing it over 360 months. I figured that even one decimal place was pushing it. :D

(Disclaimer: You guys need to visit my brain just once in a while. I have to live with it 24/7)

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

[smilie=l: [smilie=l:

LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cbpour:

:bigsmyl2: :redneck: :CastBoolitsisbest:

CDOC!

[dakotashooter2]

Admit it... Your been licking it off your fingers.................

[LUBEDUDE]

Lube your bullets and then weigh - you just may find the answer. :p

[Lance Boyle]

Hogwash, only way to be sure is to melt all them bullets back down, add the dross back in, stir, but not too much, and recast the ingots. Then weigh them.

Any scientific experiment must be repeatable or it isn't very scientific.

I'm from the gov't, I'm here to help. ;-)

[Stick_man]

Hogwash, only way to be sure is to melt all them bullets back down, add the dross back in, stir, but not too much, and recast the ingots. Then weigh them.

Any scientific experiment must be repeatable or it isn't very scientific.

I'm from the gov't, I'm here to help. ;-)

Thats starting to sound an awful lot like reverse engineering.

Have you thought to check the atmospheric pressure during the weigh-in times? Possibly the position of the moon? Was it at high tide or low tide?

I've considered using an anti-bacterial fluxing agent because I know how much those nasty bacteria will eat. You were lucky they only got 13 ounces before you caught it. The bacteria seem to be particularly fond of metal. I once had a jar full of coins, mostly quarters and dimes. I didn't check it once for a couple weeks and when I finally got back to it I discovered a loss of about 35%. It had to be due to the bacteria because my kids swore up and down they didn't touch them.