New revolver owner needs help.

[Budmen]

I just bought a .36 Cal. Pietta Revolver from a member. I have always wanted to toy with one of these and finally found one I wanted for the right price. I dont have the gun yet but am trying to get everything I need to shoot it together.

Question #1 can anyone recommend a good boolit mold something in a conical form . It has a 5 inch barrel and is a six shot. I do not know the twist on the barrel.

Question #2 When I cast for this should it be with pure lead like a muzzleloader?

Question #3 Can anyone recommend a safe light load to fire from this?

Question #4 Does this need to be patched or fitted boolit?


Like I said Im new to this and never done much research. If there is anything else I should know please post it. For now it will be a novelty paper puncher but it may become a small game side arm someday.. Thanks for any help:castmine:

[Fly]

Most .36 cal cap & ball revolvers take a .375 dia ball.Don't ask me why, but they
do.I would buy a Lee .375 mold.F&M reloading has the best price I have found.

http://www.fmreloading.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=FMR&Category_Code=Lee+Black+Powder+Molds

Fly

[Geraldo]

I'll answer your questions out of order.

#2-Yes, it should be pure lead because...
#4-the bullet needs to shave a ring of lead when you ram it into the cylinder. So it really needs to be over-sized to begin with. As Fly says, .375" usually works, except when it doesn't. My .36 Uberti requires a .379", but they usually run a little larger than Piettas. At any rate you're going to need a ball or bullet that runs at least .375", possibly larger. I would buy or beg some of each and see what you can get away with before you answer #1.

#3-15-20gr of fffg should be fine. If it's a brass frame stay on the lower end.

What you didn't ask:
5-Caps-depending on the nipples you will need either #10 or #11.
6-Wads or lube over ball/bullet-you can seat felt wads over the powder, or put some lube on top of the ball or bullet.
7-Put some grease on the arbor so the cylinder doesn't bind up on you. I use some white grease I had on hand for semi-autos and it works fine, but you can use something else.

There's more, but that will get you shooting. Cap and ball pistols are a lot of fun, but they're not as simple as sticking cartridges in a S&W K frame. Relax, enjoy, don't get frustrated.

[Multigunner]

Every 1851 original or replica .36 has far more travel to the loading lever than is necessary when using a full charge, so it would appear the designer expected that light loads would sometimes be used and that the ball would then have to be seated deeper in the chamber.

Chambers may have a bit of taper, all I've checked have some taper. If so the ball will be swaged down a bit when rammed deeper into the chamber. Depending on bore size and final bullet size accuracy may or may not be affected.

PS
Don't use wheel bearing grease over the bullet, I've seen two brass frame replicas ruined by pulled through arbor pins after only a few shots using wheel bearing grease, there had been no problems when Crisco had been used. Some bearing greases may be okay but that type certainly wasn't. Crisco Shortening has proven itself to be the best economical lube for this purpose.

[RhodeHunter]

I learned from watching a guy on YouTube after each shot tilt the gun sideways to the right while cocking the hammer. That allows the spent cap to fall out easier and won't jam up the action.

[mooman76]

Get a good BP book. It tells you how to load and will answer allot of your questions. I also find them interesting reading.

[Dframe]

All good information. Conventional wisdom says to never use petroleum based lubricants. They tend to gum up and form nasty tar like deposits. I use T/Cs bore butter but crisco works well too. Few of these 36 calibre pistols have the room in front of the cylinder to use conical bullets and work best with Round ball. Always use either a lubed felt pad (Ox Yoke Wonderwads are excellent) under the ball or lube over the top of the seated ball. This serves two purposes. First to lube the bore and help keep fouling soft. And the second to prevent crossfires where more than one chamber fires which can be dangerous and can damage your gun.

[Multigunner]

Its best to use the No.10 cap, if your pistol has the proper nipple for the No.10.
No.11 caps were usually easier to find,and often necessary for reliable ignition when using the old formula Pyrodex substitute for BP, and there are aftermarket nipples configured for the No.11, but unless you have an extra strong mainspring No.11 caps blow off and fragment and get down into the works.
If the mainspring is weak the more powerful No.11 cap kicks the hammer back some putting undue stress on the lockwork.

The No.10 cap is plenty hot enough for BP.

FFFG Black Powder is best for the .36 pistols.

[leadshooter5]

They are a heap 'o fun. Start with modest powder charges and increase as needed, but keep the forward end of the seated ball at least 1/16" sort of the cylinder face, then fill cavity with Crisco/Bore Butter. Get a proper nipple wrench so you can remove them when cleaning. Lubricate with breech plug grease when reassembling. Good point about pointing up between shots because the Colt-patterns drop bits of the cap into the lockwork when you re-cock.

[Wolfer]

I've shot a 58 Remington replica for about 30 years and I have some definite opinions.
My gun works best with 3 F black, crisco is the best lube, be sure to cap the front of the cyl with crisco to prevent chain fires. Clean up with hot water only.

My gun takes # 11 caps in some brands and # 10 in others

[Boerrancher]

I don't have a 36, but I do have a 44, and the same rules apply. I have shot thousands of rounds through my 44 navy. I have always shot real 3FG through it, and round balls. I would start out with round balls first and then work up to conical. Get use to loading and shooting it with round balls as they are the easiest to make shoot well. I have shot a few conicals out of it but not with the accuracy that I got with the round ball sitting on the powder and crisco packed over the front of them.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Hellgate]

Get the Double cavity LEE .380 dia round ball mold and also the 130gr double cavity conical ball mold. If the gun is a brass frame then forget the conical as it will be a little harder on the gun than the round ball. All the other advice you have gotten is sound.

Cap sizes vary among manufacturers. The CCI #10 is WAAAY smaller than the Remington #10. The Remington #11 is way bigger than the CCI #11. The Remington #10 fits a greater variety of nipple tapers so I would get that one first. As the Rem#10 is seated it more readily flares (the cap is pre-split) out the petals to hold the cap on the nipple. The CCI caps are harder/thicker walled and aren as forgiving. Get a 3/8" short piece of dowel to use as a push stick to seat the caps snugly on the nipples. If the Rem#10 is too loose then get the CCI#10. If the Rem#10 is too tight then get the CCI#11 or the Rem#11.

[Budmen]

Thanks for all the help guys I have shot black powder for years just never got into playing with the revolvers. I hope this doesnt prove to be another addiction......

[Mk42gunner]

Thanks for all the help guys I have shot black powder for years just never got into playing with the revolvers. I hope this doesnt prove to be another addiction......

[smilie=l: You are kidding, right?

Cap and Ball revolvers are just about the most fun thing there is for shooting enjoyment.

The neat thing about them is you can shoot all afternoon and not spend a lot of money because of the time it takes to load (and clean afterwards).

Robert

[Omnivore]

You can certainly use conicals. I'd try the Lee mold for that purpose, but start with round balls.


Few of these 36 calibre pistols have the room in front of the cylinder to use conical bullets and work best with Round ball.

At first I thought that made no sense-- You seat all projectiles below the cylinder face or the cylinder can't rotate. Round ball or conical does not change that simple fact. The longer conical bullet leaves less room for powder is all, but that probably won't be an issue since most shooter don't stuff the chamber full anyway. But then I realized that I had to open up the frame on my Pietta to allow room under the loading ram for loading conicals. So yeah, it makes sense. You could start with conicals by loading the cylinder off the gun if necessary. If you like 'em, work on your frame and make it right for loading them.

Original Navies were sometimes loaded with conicals (comercial "consumeable envelope" cartridges were made in "36/100ths caliber" in large numbers) so if you want to try it, get hold of a bullet or twelve and see if they'll fit under the loading ram. I'd offer to send you some but I don't shoot 36 caliber yet. Understand that bulets for a percussion revolver are different than most bullets for cartridges in that they have a reduced diameter base (heel base) so they'll fit part way into the chamber before you start ramming them in.

Try it with and without a felt wad between powder and bullet (or ball). Sometimes it can make a difference in accuracy. I don't think there's enough lube in the commercially available lubed felt wads (Wonder wads) to do much. You can lube your own wads though, and get more lube into them. Something a little harder than Bore Butter in the wad will help reduce powder degradation. Look up GatoFeo #1 lube for a well-respected recipe. There are many others.

On that note; there are probably about as many ways of loading, lubricating, cleaning and maintaining a BP gun as there are people who use them. Search and peruse this site a lot. There is already an answer to every question you could have, now and in the future, about this subject.

Experimenting is half, or more than half, of the fun. Part of the beauty of these replicas is that if you mess up and your gun crumbles into dust or something, they aren't that expensive to replace.

Oh, and; get a set of spare screws and springs right now. You'll probably need one sooner rather than later.

[Alan]

Easy startup:

Use 2F not 3F, start out w/ .375 or .380 RB instead of conicals. Greased felt wads are harder to find in .36 than .44. Get a 3/8" hollow punch and make them out of hard pure wool felt. Old hats from the thrift store will get you started. If you exhaust the supply of those, www.durofelt.com.

Crisco will work ok for a lube to get you started, but olive-oil/beeswax/paraffin mix is better.

3F ramming - When you just feel the ball crunch the grains, that is enough pressure.

2F ramming - 2F wants a good bit more pressure than 3F, but not as much as pyro. You will have to experiment to find out what your gun likes best.

Pyro ramming - Pyro likes about 80 lbs of pressure. Generally will be about all you can do without bending the rammer.

My C&B's well generally go 2" groups or less at 20 yards with the loads they like. Some will go closer to 1", and my ROA will shave 1" most of the time. My eyes won't work well enough any more to do more than 2 really good groups back to back, and that is just starting out the shooting session.

[Budmen]

Alan why do you say use 2f not 3f I have used 3f in every single muzzleloader I have ever shot and got lots of bs about 3f being a pistol powder.

[KCSO]

I have never been satisfied with coniicals in the cap and ball revolver. They are hard to start straight and more important the imported revolvers don't have the right twist for a bullet. You WANT 1-18 or 1-16 for a 38 bullet and most of the imports are 1-48 with some going 1-20, you need to measure the twist.

[Boerrancher]

I have used 3f in every single muzzleloader I have ever shot and got lots of bs about 3f being a pistol powder.

Me too. If I want to get down and dirty with the flinter and am just wanting to use it to hunt and don't want to pack a lot of **** with me, I carry a flask of 3FG a bag of balls and some patches. 3F isn't as fast in the pan so the lock time is a bit slower than with 4F, and the 3f isn't quite as accurate as a good charge of 2F, but it will kill a deer at PRB ranges. I shoot 3F all the time in my 32cal rifle, Never considered using 2F in it. For years when I was shooting allot of cap and ball, more than rifle, I always used 3F in my 45 and 50 cal rifles. The 45 just shot better with 3F, and the 50 Hawken I had didn't care what granulation it was, it just wanted a massive amount of it to shoot well. 120gr of 3FG on a PRB would shoot 3 inches or less at 100 yards with the regular iron sights. 90 grains would shoot all over the map.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Beagle333]

I like the round ball. I have trouble getting the bullet to get started seating straight, even with the heeled bullets.

[Alan]

Alan why do you say use 2f not 3f I have used 3f in every single muzzleloader I have ever shot and got lots of bs about 3f being a pistol powder.

According to Elmer (peace be unto him) 3F was for pocket pistols - the .36's on up were loaded with 2F. Out of 10+ C&B revolvers I own, ALL BUT ONE shoot better with 2f than 3f. And that one shoots about as well with either. You will probably cut your groups size in half w/ 2f. Try it. It just wants a little more ramming pressure than 3f does.

I started with 3F, and shot Cowboy matches for 1.5 years with it. I tried 2F because that was all I had, and never looked back.
:guntootsmiley:

[Mk42gunner]

I have read that, too. I haven't been able to tell a whole lot of difference, accuracy wise with my Navies between 2F and 3F. I haven't really tried the Walker with 3F yet.

One thing to remember is that there was a lot more choices of what brand of BP that were available when he was using cap and ball revolvers. That had to make a difference; just look at the debates taht go on about Goex, Swiss, Elephant, WANO and any others that have been available recently.

Elmer also recommended using a felt wad in revolvers, which is a heck of a lot less messy than smearing grease/ crisco/ whatever over the front of the cylinder.

Robert

[Budmen]

So as long as everyone here agrees I shall start with a nice light load on this lil thing

15gr of FFFG which I have may try FFG when I can find some
380 Lee round ball pure lead ordered the mold
an oxwad under and over the ball since I ordered them already.

I know this may not be the perfect combination for accuracy but this should get me safley started correct. I dont think I will be experimenting with this all that much since I have way too many other projects right now but someday when Im old and bored maybe I will play with it

[mooman76]

Sounds like a good load to me and the load should shoot good too.

[Budmen]

Well shot the ol girl today 36 shots with my lee cast 380 rb 10 grains of fffg since I found the manual online and it said 9-12g never exceed 12 and my measure only had 10g and 15g incriments. Everything worked great but it shot about 10 inches at 25yds I used an over powder wad and a on top of the ball wad then changed to over powder wad and bore butter on top of the ball. I just read somewhere the only one you need is the over powder wad is this correct I am afraid of cross fire? The only thing noone told me I needed was a special nipple wrench I guess I will order a pistol powder measurer and a nipple wrench tomorrow. Is there a reason this thing wont shoot better or is this what I should expect? Again its a pietta 36 cal police 5.5" barrel I think its a colt 1861 copy if that sounds right...

[brassrat]

I have the same gun and never used wads at all. I weighed my charge, awhile back and I think it was 17 gr. of pyrodex fff eqiv. This leaves room for Crisco or wax, which I have left in for years before firing. I just fired off two cylinders, last weekend and got 2" groups or less at 50'. Better get a good nipple wrench, because most are junk. I made one out of a small socket, and finally got the nipples out of both cylinders after 15 yrs. I needed to clean one set up due to rust and take apart and fix the hand which was all messed up and also fix the cylinder advance notches. Glad I noticed the problem. It feels sweet now [smilie=w:

[Bullet Caster]

Sounds like you're off to a great start. I've never tried conicals in my Pietta .44, only .451 round balls. I think that if it is a cap 'n' ball revolver, then I don't need the conicals. They were made for round balls. I've got the 1860 SSA and really love to shoot it. I've only ever shot BP in it eventhough a friend gave me about a # of Pyrodex P. Guess I'll save the Pyrodex and use it when I run out of BP. I use Hogdon "Spit Ball" over the ball and have used Crisco in the past with great results. Cap 'n' ball revolvers are more fun to shoot than cartridge guns as it takes a little more finesse to shoot; same thing with my Pedersoli .50 flintlock. I always thought that 4fg was for pan priming, 3fg was for pistols and 2fg was for rifles. Now you've got me interested in trying some 3fg in my flinter. I'll have to wait for another range trip before I tackle that little goodie. BC

[Budmen]

Bullet Caster My ol man has a perersoli flint and a tc hawken flint and uses FFFg to charge both the pan and the chamber with great results He has used both FFG and FFFFg in the chamber with results but cautions to not use FFFFg in the chamber because it can fall out the flash hole and charge your pan for you.....

This lil peittas sure is fun to shoot I think when I get some down time with my other loading I may get this thing to shoot allot better with some tinkering

[Dframe]

The felt wads are available from "Ox Yoke" originals. They are used only UNDER the ball not over. Generally they will provide enough protection from crossfires but a small dab of crisco or bore butter doesn't hurt.
I'd suggest in your range bag you include some "baby butt wipes" to clean you hands (BP) can be messy). They are also great for wiping off the face and sides of the cylinder to keep things running smoothly in the field. Of course they are NO substitue for proper cleaning when you get home

[Bullet Caster]

Budmen,
Here's my Colt 1860 SAA clone.http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_211414efb8083c3396.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3148) I just had to remove the bluing so it'd match my Uberti in my Avatar. Cap 'n' ball is sure a hoot to shoot. I usually just fill up each chamber with 3fg and smash a round ball in each, smear some spitball or Crisco on the chamber ends, cap and I'm good to go.

Also thanks for the tip about the baby butt wipes. I know from shootin' my smoke pole and cap 'n' ball that it gets nasty in the field. I usually have a canteen with me when in the woods or field and that helps some with the mess. I always carry a canteen when shootin' the smoke pole as I have to wet wipe between shots in order not to break another ram rod as that gets expensive in itself. I've been told on this site not to use a fiberglass ram rod but I do and I forgot why. I remember a show on BBC that was called "Sharps Rifles" and Col. Sharp always told his riflemen to spit down the bbl. before each shot; I guess this was to loosen the fouling so a second shot could be loaded. After breaking my first ram rod trying to load a second shot, I began the practice of wet and dry patching after each successive round.

Enjoy your pistol. Shoot it often. It'll grow on you the more you shoot. BC

[Boerrancher]

I always carry a canteen when shootin' the smoke pole as I have to wet wipe between shots in order not to break another ram rod as that gets expensive in itself. I've been told on this site not to use a fiberglass ram rod but I do and I forgot why. I remember a show on BBC that was called "Sharps Rifles" and Col. Sharp always told his riflemen to spit down the bbl. before each shot; I guess this was to loosen the fouling so a second shot could be loaded. After breaking my first ram rod trying to load a second shot, I began the practice of wet and dry patching after each successive round.


A couple of things. If you want to see what the fiberglass rod is doing to your bore, the next time you have your barrel off, take the fiberglass rod and saw it in one spot across the underneath of your barrel for a min or so. Do it where it will be under the wood, because it will cut a groove in it. Also, if you can't load and shoot several times with out wiping at the risk of breaking your rod there is a problem. Either your load is too tight to start with, or you need to change your lube, powder, powder charge, or something. I don't have a gun that I can't shoot at least 10 times with out the load starting to get a bit tight. My 32 cal, I have burned a 1/4 lb of powder through it one day, 20 grains at a time, and never swabbed or had a tight load, and if I do my part it will cut bullet holes all day long at 30 yards.

Best wishes,

Joe

[tinsmith]

I just picked up a used Piatta copy of the Colt 1860 in .44. What size round ball should I use? Are swaged balls better for target work than cast? With swaged, you don't have to be concerned with the orientation of the sprue. I would like to let my 4-H Shooting Sports kids have some fun with this pistol.
Jeff

[docone31]

Lee mold .454 is great in mine.
I use soft lead for it. No point in spending much more than I can cast for.

[Dframe]

I've used swaged and cast in my black powder guns and have never been able to tell the difference on the target. There are some variations in diameter amongst the various clones but I've always had good luck with the 454s except in the Ruger that seems to want 457s. I'd avoid using a glass rod for exactly the reason above. The old timers frequently blew down the barrel between shots, just till smoke stopped coming out of the nipple. It was believed that condensation of their breath would help keep fouling soft. I'm not sure about that, but a properly sized ball and patch well lubed with a non petroleum product certainly will.

[Bullet Caster]

Boerrancher,

What kinda material makes a good ramrod? I got the fiberglass one because it won't break. Never knew that it would harm my bore.

Maybe I need to change lube or something because that second shot just will not load without wet and dry patching. I had just resigned myself to wet and dry patch between shots as I thought it was the norm. I've been using pre-lubed patches.

Guess I need to visit the fabric store and pick up some different thicknesses of patch material. The pre-lubed are .010 and I've also tried one at .015 and it was very hard to load. I'm using a .490 PRB. I refuse to shoot anything other than patched round balls.

Maybe I should start breathing down my bbl. between shots and see if that helps. Thanks for your post. I await your answer. BC

[carbine]

15grs FFFg, Wonder wad and .375 RB.