Savage 99 .25-35

[bensonwe]

I need some help. My local gun shop has a savage 99 in .25-35 for sale, $800.00. As I know little to nothing about this lever gun and caliber can anyone give me some pointers what to look for and also if this is a fair price? I didn't give it a good look but on the drive home i found myself chewing on it. And one last request, and in my opinion the most important, can it be loaded with melted ww turned into boolits?

[square butte]

Savage 99's in Winchester (WCF) cahmberings usually command a higher price than the more common chamberings - .300 sav., .303 sav., etc.. - 25-35 wcf is desireable - but the price can only be determined by model of 99 - A, F, H, Carbine, Short rifle, SRC, Barrel Band, and various cofigurations - THEN there is condition. So the answer to your question is unanswerab;e without a LOT of other info you have not provided here. Even with a better written desciption - only photos would really allow a good answer to your question. Yes 25-35 will shoot cast - but can be a finicky cartridge depending on twist rate of barrel and boolit weight.

[shotman]

well price is in line if it is in good shape . the cal is obsolete so you will need to get brass
midway has it most times . it is an open sight gun so it may have the tang but that is worthless. as it too close to your eye . there were 2 verisons I know of, one was a 24in and other a 26in .
Cast works good if you dont try to push it to 3000fps .
scope mount is very pricey
dont try to size down 30-30 brass it wont work

[starmac]

Lately the rarer calibers have been starting about there and going up. You can still get the 300, 303 and the 308 a little cheaper depending on the gun and shape.
As far as I am concerned the 99 is among the best levers there are, and were way ahead of their time.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I was obviously on the wrong track, I thought it was just a necked down 30/30.

How do you form the brass if you can't neck down 30/30. I have never seen this calibre, but I think it would be nice for most Australian game.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

I was at our spring gun show today, the cheapest 99 I saw was 700 bucks for a later model tang safety, in 308 .
There was a pair of early ones in 22 highpower for 1150 each!, one very early mode octagon barrel for 2800 bucks! When did these things become so valuable again? I sould have kept all the ones I've unloaded over the years!

[richhodg66]

I now have three 99s and I would grab that one if in reasonably decent shape. Those things have sky rocketed in recent years and I plan on grabbing every one I can afford in upcoming years. They are marvelous things, amazingly ahead of their time.

[Bret4207]

The 25/35 also came in a 20" version. The brass CAN be made from 30-30, got to neck ream though. It's much easier to use factory brass. The tang sights work fine for me BTW. Is $700.00 a fair price? If it's in good shape, there are lots of things you could do worse on. After all, we're paying $3.00 for a loaf of the "good bread" and over $4.00 for gas, jacketed bullets are over $20.00 @100, decent boots start at $100.00, used 10 year old trucks with 150K are going over $2K if they aren't rust buckets and new ones going over $40K. It's the times. And yes, it will handle cast fine.

[gnoahhh]

well price is in line if it is in good shape . the cal is obsolete so you will need to get brass
midway has it most times . it is an open sight gun so it may have the tang but that is worthless. as it too close to your eye . there were 2 verisons I know of, one was a 24in and other a 26in .
Cast works good if you dont try to push it to 3000fps .
scope mount is very pricey
dont try to size down 30-30 brass it wont work

I finally met someone who thinks tang sights are worthless because they're too close to one's eye!! Never heard that one before, and I've been using them, and around other guys who use them, for a long time. Remarkable. I would be curious as to why you think that.

I make .22 High Powers (which are essentially .25/35's necked down) out of .30/30 brass. It's not a 'comfortable' operation, but it works fine. Ditto brass for my 1899H in .25/35AI re-bore.

Like previous posters have said, there isn't nearly enough info to declare that a good price or not. Generally speaking given the limited time period Savage offered that caliber (and the corresponding models of 1899's), if it has a good bore, decent finish, no 'Bubba' additions: sling swivels, extra holes, re-finishing, etc., and no tang cracks or stock repairs, and a tight barrel (if it's a takedown model) then that price would be a good one. Pics will tell the tale. Trouble is in finding a good 1899 that meets these requirements anymore. The presence of any of these faults severely detracts from an 1899's collectibility, and drops it squarely into the 'shooter' category. Its worth in that regard is strictly up to how much you value it.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Getting the peep near your eye is the whole point of a peep sight, I was always taught and thats pretty much how I have found it to be.

[muskeg13]

it is an open sight gun so it may have the tang but that is worthless. as it too close to your eye .

shotman, I'll gladly take any of those "worthless" tang sights off of your hands. I'm sure you don't want them lying around just collecting dust.

[Bent Ramrod]

I think this is the Mrs. Paul Curtis story again. She had a Savage 99 with a tang peep sight and shot at something nearly straight up from her shooting position. The rifle recoiled down and the peep sight put her eye out.

I don't think a .25-35 has the recoil, and if you don't shoot straight up you should be all right.

My 99 was relined from .30-30 to .25-35 and it is a delight. I replaced the receiver sight with a scope in Stith mounts, not because of any danger but because my eyes needed it at longer ranges.

The price indicated is not bad for a 99 these days, if the receiver isn't drilled or the stock mangled.

[Good Cheer]

257325

[Three44s]

The only thing that I don't like about a tang sight is I don't believe they are as stable as a receiver peep. Otherwise, the longer the sight radius, the better!

Also, better to find .25-35 brass than make it ............ I did not have to ream on a mod. 94 but it's a slow process to not get a lot of wrinkles in necking down from 30-30.

Three 44s

[gnoahhh]

True, making them out of .30/30's is tedious and 'wrinkly' in a lot of cases. I relegate the wrinkled ones to cast shooting and the pretty ones for full bore rip-snorting, rootin'-tootin', magnum-esque jacketed loads. (Ha ha, kidding!)

[Three44s]

As far as making .30-30 into .25-35 I should mention that one forum member suggested to me that if you take a .32-40 FL sizer die and take the expander stem out, it will pre-form the shoulder area ahead of necking the .30 mouth down to .25 cal. He used a mini-step process if I recall right as I did and you have to be very measured in your use of case lube to limit the wrinkles.

I have not gotten that die yet, and instead started just using .25-35 brass because about that same time, I acquired a .30-30 Contender barrel and later a .357 Herret barrel so my .30-30 brass has many other uses than it did earlier.

Three 44s

[Char-Gar]

I am not a fan of tang sights. They are more fragel than receiver mounted peeps, mess us where you should place your tumb and take time to stand up and lay down. If you have one on a heavy loaded 45-70 and take a steep uphill shot, you could end up blind in that eye.

The few inches of longer sight radius, just doesn't compensate for the downside of these things.

[Boerrancher]

...... mess us where you should place your tumb.....

You should never wrap your thumb around a stock while shooting. Your thumb should lay along side the stock just above your trigger finger. The reason for this is because when you wrap your thumb around the stock, the muscles in your thumb naturally contract slightly when squeezing the trigger. This causes you to pull ever so slightly to the right if you are right handed, or to the left if you are left handed. Also you have an artery that runs though your thumb that transmits your heartbeat to the rifle if your thumb is wrapped around the stock, hence the reason the nurse always uses her fingers to check your pulse and not her thumb.

Are most people and most guns good enough shooters that the wrapped around thumb makes a difference? The simple answer is "No, they are not," but wrapping the thumb around the stock really shows up quickly on a great shooting rifle when shooting either off the bench or even off hand. Removing the thumb from the equation can make the difference between a 1 inch group at 100 yards, or a 1/2 inch group at the same distance. When shooting long ranges it really makes a difference.

I say keep the tang sights, especially a Marbles because they are tight and don't wobble like the Lyman sights can, and improve your shooting. A 45-70 with a good tang sight will teach you to not wrap your thumb around the stock. With a good stiff load out of the 45-70 you will never have to worry about your thumb again.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Four Fingers of Death]

You should never wrap your thumb around a stock while shooting. Your thumb should lay along side the stock just above your trigger finger. The reason for this is because when you wrap your thumb around the stock, the muscles in your thumb naturally contract slightly when squeezing the trigger. This causes you to pull ever so slightly to the right if you are right handed, or to the left if you are left handed. Also you have an artery that runs though your thumb that transmits your heartbeat to the rifle if your thumb is wrapped around the stock, hence the reason the nurse always uses her fingers to check your pulse and not her thumb.

Are most people and most guns good enough shooters that the wrapped around thumb makes a difference? The simple answer is "No, they are not," but wrapping the thumb around the stock really shows up quickly on a great shooting rifle when shooting either off the bench or even off hand. Removing the thumb from the equation can make the difference between a 1 inch group at 100 yards, or a 1/2 inch group at the same distance. When shooting long ranges it really makes a difference.

I say keep the tang sights, especially a Marbles because they are tight and don't wobble like the Lyman sights can, and improve your shooting. A 45-70 with a good tang sight will teach you to not wrap your thumb around the stock. With a good stiff load out of the 45-70 you will never have to worry about your thumb again.

Best wishes,

Joe

I agree with 100% Another advantage in shooting a lever gun with your thumb along the handgrip i sthat it allows you to press down on the rifle with your thumb while you cycle the lever, adding a lot of leverage to your cycling and making it easier and quicker.

Google some cowboy action videos on youtube or similar. Now, you may not be a bit interested in cowboy shooting, but these guys and gals operate levers at warp speed and he better opertators amongst them are invariably very accurate shooters. One thing you will see is that hardly any of them wrap their thumb around the grip. If it was better to do it that way, these guys and gals would be doing it, but they don't waste motion and energy on something that doesn't work (or work as well). The cowboy shooters who wrap their thum around look particularly awkward as you watch them. hard to stop doing it sometimes though, lol.

[starmac]

Booer rancher that is good infi, I have never heard the reason for the thumb explained.

I don't know if the model 99 is legal in cowboy shoots,and it's limited ammo capacity might be a problem but the way they cock on closing makes them faster for getting back on target. You don't really need to push down on the lever, it almost flies open once you break it lose.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Booer rancher that is good infi, I have never heard the reason for the thumb explained.

I don't know if the model 99 is legal in cowboy shoots,and it's limited ammo capacity might be a problem but the way they cock on closing makes them faster for getting back on target. You don't really need to push down on the lever, it almost flies open once you break it lose.

The 99 wouldn't qualify for cowboy shooting as they require pistol calibre rifles. I alos wasn't suggesting that you shoot cowboy with it, what I was suggesting was to watch a few videos so that you can see how the levers are cycled. If you watch a few you will see the placing of the thumb around the grip with every shot is noticeably more awkward. It is not always obvious when you see 'normal' lever rifle operators. This method also makes it easier to keep the rifle shouldered, which aids accurate, consistent shooting and ease of cycling.

[Bret4207]

Joe I can't agree with that idea. If that theory held true then we shouldn't wrap our thumbs around a bolt, SS, pump, auto or handgun either. No disrespect intended, but that sounds like someones pet theory that got passed down through the years to me. Kinda like the guys that don't put their fingers through the lever loop, but have them curled around the bottom part of the loop. Someone got used to shooting that way and came up with the theory to justify it. If it works for you, that's fine, but the word "never" might be a poor choice to use.

[Boerrancher]

Joe I can't agree with that idea. If that theory held true then we shouldn't wrap our thumbs around a bolt, SS, pump, auto or handgun either.

Bret, you shouldn't for accurate shooting. Most handguns you don't have a choice, but if you will notice on the long range target handguns, they have a special grip with a thumb rest that removes the pulse and thumb pressure from the trigger squeeze. Even some of the target revolvers are equipped with the thumb rest on the grip. Do some research and watch how many of these champion rifle shooters don't wrap their thumb around the stock.

I grew up around some of the best world class bench rest and national match shooters in the country, as Dad used to shoot competitively through the late 60's and late 70's, so I learned to shoot from the best shooters in the country at the time. Also when I went through a couple of Army shooting schools the instructors would smack your thumb with a yardstick if they caught you wrapping it around the stock. Even the M-16 was fired with the thumb laying next to the index finger.

As I said in my earlier post, the average shooter with the average rifle will never notice a difference, as most people and most guns don't shoot that well for it to make a difference. You really notice it when you pick up a rifle that will literally put bullets in one hole, not a ragged hole. I have watched matches where there was a second piece of paper behind the target that moved so they could make sure that no one was cheating. At the end of each shooters turn they would count the bullet holes in the moving paper to make sure there was 5, and they would measure the diameter of the single hole in the target. Who ever had the smallest hole was the winner of the match. It is kind of cool to watch someone fire 5 shots with a 30 cal rifle and have a single hole you can completely cover with a cigarette butt.

Best wishes,

Joe

[starmac]

The 99 wouldn't qualify for cowboy shooting as they require pistol calibre rifles. I alos wasn't suggesting that you shoot cowboy with it, what I was suggesting was to watch a few videos so that you can see how the levers are cycled. If you watch a few you will see the placing of the thumb around the grip with every shot is noticeably more awkward. It is not always obvious when you see 'normal' lever rifle operators. This method also makes it easier to keep the rifle shouldered, which aids accurate, consistent shooting and ease of cycling.

Yea I wasn't thinking it could be a cowboy gun. I was just mentioning that it really requires almost no down pressure on the lever as it cocks on the closing stroke, and since it cocks like that the pressure you put on the lever is also pulling it to your shoulder instead of pushing it away for the next shot. It looks to me like if someone would build a cowboy legal gun that cocks in reverse like the 99 it would be an a slight advantage.

[Boerrancher]

It looks to me like if someone would build a cowboy legal gun that cocks in reverse like the 99 it would be an a slight advantage.

Savage did make a limited production run of miniaturized mod 99s back in the late 50's or early 60's. I have only seen one in my whole life and it was in a 38-40 I believe. Back when they did it the pistol rounds in rifles did not catch on, like they have today. These miniature 99s are the rarest of the rare, with something like only 1500 or 2000 of them being made. I have searched high and low for one, and have yet to find one that was for sale.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Four Fingers of Death]

Yea I wasn't thinking it could be a cowboy gun. I was just mentioning that it really requires almost no down pressure on the lever as it cocks on the closing stroke, and since it cocks like that the pressure you put on the lever is also pulling it to your shoulder instead of pushing it away for the next shot. It looks to me like if someone would build a cowboy legal gun that cocks in reverse like the 99 it would be an a slight advantage.

You learn something every day, but them again, I haven't been in a position to learn a real lot about 99 lever rifles as I have been fortunate to have never been in a position to buy a 99. They never seem to come up when I'm around.

I say fortunate enough, because I have enough things draining any money I can get my hands on without a new line of rifles!

[starmac]

Ah but everyone that even thinks they like lever guns, should at some time in life, treat themselves to a 99. lol

[Four Fingers of Death]

Ah but everyone that even thinks they like lever guns, should at some time in life, treat themselves to a 99. lol

You are definetely right, but just never had one come up. I have had a lot of Mirokus and Brownings offered, but always in 243 or 22/250. If one had of come up in a serious calibre like 308 or 358, at a reasonable price I would have wilted. The new take down 308W that was in teh shop recently sorely tried my resolve.

I always fancied a 99 in 22Hi Power and a 308 for cast bullets. My mate bought a 22 Hi Power with a trashed barrel. He re-barreled it with a .224" tube and had a custom dies made for it. Now one with that mod and a tight twist for 62, 70 Gn Barnes TSXs would be a nasty woods rifle.

[starmac]

Don't forget the 250/3000, one of these days I will run across one that I can't live without. lol

I have already bought the dies, just in case. lol

[Four Fingers of Death]

Don't forget the 250/3000, one of these days I will run across one that I can't live without. lol

I have already bought the dies, just in case. lol

I bought a pack of 1000 gas checks and later on two moulds that I saw cheap a few years ago. I knew I wouldn't go through life without a 375H&H.

I have had the gas checks for easy 10 years and one of the moulds for 5-6 years and I finally bought a Remington 700SPS DG late last year.

The SPS model is affectionately referred to in Australia as the S&%t PLastic Stock model, lol. I don't mind it though, with the u-beaut recoil pad it soaks up the recoil. You can fight physics though, it is a 7lb rifle and it sure whips up and jumps around, right lively! lol

A pair of 99s, one in 250/3000 and one in something like 338Federal would just about handle anything we are liable to come across.

[Bret4207]

Bret, you shouldn't for accurate shooting. Most handguns you don't have a choice, but if you will notice on the long range target handguns, they have a special grip with a thumb rest that removes the pulse and thumb pressure from the trigger squeeze. Even some of the target revolvers are equipped with the thumb rest on the grip. Do some research and watch how many of these champion rifle shooters don't wrap their thumb around the stock.

I grew up around some of the best world class bench rest and national match shooters in the country, as Dad used to shoot competitively through the late 60's and late 70's, so I learned to shoot from the best shooters in the country at the time. Also when I went through a couple of Army shooting schools the instructors would smack your thumb with a yardstick if they caught you wrapping it around the stock. Even the M-16 was fired with the thumb laying next to the index finger.

As I said in my earlier post, the average shooter with the average rifle will never notice a difference, as most people and most guns don't shoot that well for it to make a difference. You really notice it when you pick up a rifle that will literally put bullets in one hole, not a ragged hole. I have watched matches where there was a second piece of paper behind the target that moved so they could make sure that no one was cheating. At the end of each shooters turn they would count the bullet holes in the moving paper to make sure there was 5, and they would measure the diameter of the single hole in the target. Who ever had the smallest hole was the winner of the match. It is kind of cool to watch someone fire 5 shots with a 30 cal rifle and have a single hole you can completely cover with a cigarette butt.

Best wishes,

Joe

I've never seen or heard of anyone doing it that way. The closest I've seen or heard of is the guys pinching the trigger between the finger and thumb and trigger guard. I've seen world class benchresters shoot and never saw anyone doing that. And I've seen many, many top class bullseye shooters and olympic shooters and not all of them use thumb rests. 1000 yard shooters don't either. I'm sure you're just telling what you were told and have seen, but still, the word "never" seems almighty strong to use in reference to this subject, especially with lever guns.

On this miniaturized 99, where did you hear of that? I know the very first 99 designs were in 32-20 and that the action was smaller, but I've never heard of anything from the 50's like that. Are you aware of any sites showing pics or background on that? Sounds interesting.

[richhodg66]

Savage did make a limited production run of miniaturized mod 99s back in the late 50's or early 60's. I have only seen one in my whole life and it was in a 38-40 I believe. Back when they did it the pistol rounds in rifles did not catch on, like they have today. These miniature 99s are the rarest of the rare, with something like only 1500 or 2000 of them being made. I have searched high and low for one, and have yet to find one that was for sale.

Best wishes,

Joe

I had never heard of that, thanks for sharing, interesting stuff.

I love 99s, and have three. I just stopped in a local shop on my way home and a really nice one in .300 Savage was sitting there and the price wasn't too out of line for what they're bringing now. Just not sure what I'd do with it, I have one in .300 already, but this one was nicer and had been drilled and tapped for scopes which mine has not, but then, I have a .308 one too, so for a hunter I have that base covered.

I wish I could find one in one of the rarer calibers like .25-35.

[Boerrancher]

As far as the small 99's the one I saw was about 23 years ago in a private collection of 99's, near Springfield MO. I was there to buy a 243 that the man had for sale. He was showing me his collection and showed me the 38-40, it was not a re bore or new barrel, it had all the original savage markings on it. He told me it was made in the late 50's or early 60's in a limited run. I had never seen a mini before, didn't know that they existed, and since he was the collector with 60 or 70 different savage rifles in display cases, I figured he knew what he was talking about. I just know that I have never stopped looking for the miniature versions of the mod 99. I don't care what cal it is or if I have to take out a second mortgage. I want one.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Four Fingers of Death]

"He was showing me his collection and showed me the 38-40"

That would be nice rifle in a handy calibre.

[starmac]

Boerrancher are you saying that savage made some that were physically smaller.
I have never seen one, now I will have to look at every one I see listed. lol

[Bret4207]

As far as the small 99's the one I saw was about 23 years ago in a private collection of 99's, near Springfield MO. I was there to buy a 243 that the man had for sale. He was showing me his collection and showed me the 38-40, it was not a re bore or new barrel, it had all the original savage markings on it. He told me it was made in the late 50's or early 60's in a limited run. I had never seen a mini before, didn't know that they existed, and since he was the collector with 60 or 70 different savage rifles in display cases, I figured he knew what he was talking about. I just know that I have never stopped looking for the miniature versions of the mod 99. I don't care what cal it is or if I have to take out a second mortgage. I want one.

Best wishes,

Joe

Are you sure he didn't have one of the very early prototype 95 predecessors? I looked at Murrays book and see nothing on the 50's/60's in a smaller model.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Before the introduction of the short actioned Winchester Model 70s, it was mildly popular to shorten the action by cutting and welding it all up again. Maybe a similar job was done with the pistol calibre 99??

[gnoahhh]

Count me in as another one who never heard tell of a 'scaled down' 99 offered from the factory. I've been around 99's and 99 collectors for a loooong time and no one has heard of this. If they made 1-2000 of them they would be subjects of discussion, and one would turn up now and then. Something sounds a bit off.

[Yellowhouse]

If the gun is tight, unabused, and honest.....its a steal at that price.