Mini 14's anyone?

[Tazman1602]

Just wondering (after a search turned up hundreds of threads that had nothing to do with mini 14's...) if anyone else here shoots and likes Ruger Mini-14's?

Spring has sprung and since I've been waiting on GB's to complete and have all my casting done, brother in law, myself and nephew have dug out his AR15's and my mini's and have been doing some shooting!

I know it's not a CB gun and I'll probably never put a boolit down the tube but it sure is fun. Working on some accuracy stuff right now -- my mini's are older which means they are about as accurate as a slingshot but I think I can improve on that from what I"ve been reading, guess we'll find out!

Brother in law has a new Palmetto State Armory M4 and it is a NICE piece and the price was right ---- $670 complete. I'd kind of like to build one from a kit but there are no kits available that I can find anywhere. Not that I have the money to shuck out right now but everyone has a dream and I know we all NEED another rifle/pistol/shotgun around here.

Man spring fever. I'm just dying to go out and shoot some more!!

Art

[W.R.Buchanan]

Art: go to www.accuracysystems.com They have all the good stuff for mini's.

Look at the adjustable gas block first. This single addition changes the gun from a slingshot to a very usable gun.

I have a newer one and I shoot it alot and I love it. For the intended purpose I think they are better suited than AR's, but thats just me.

Randy

[Tazman1602]

Already have on WR, just came in yesterday but I bought the non-adjustable gas block as I am also a dealer for Accu-struts which cure the issue of how the mini is mounted in the stock and stabilizes the barrel -- dang thing looks pretty cool also. Check out:

http://www.accu-strut.com/

Ruger seems to have cured *most* of these issues with the new models -- the Mini 14 line was shut down for 18 months back around 2003 I think to revamp the way they were made..............

..............the problem is the price of the new Mini's is now close to $1000 which is more than double what I paid for mine and a bit less than what I will have into it when I get this thing done.

Yes the gas block should cure a plethora of issue with the mini:
1. Violently throws brass 20-30 feet
2. Dents the poopy out of my brass because it's so violent it whacks the charging handle
3. I usually lose about 4 out of ten brass because I just can't find it

Going to be doing some trimming of the charging handle too so that it won't hit no matter how it ejects cartridges.

4" groups at 100 yards is the best I've been able to do with the rifle in it's stock form which is largely why they've been safe queens for ten years.

The most fun part about this whole thing? Wife came out to the shop last night and took a look at the stock I"m putting on it. I've never heard her refer to a rifle stock as a "fun" stock before and then she asked if I would build her one on the regular Mini-14 I've got...................."with one of those red dot sights Chris has got" (brother in law's AR..)

[smilie=w:[smilie=w:[smilie=w:[smilie=w:

Art

[Jailer]

Having dealt with several mini 14's I wouldn't bother with one of the older ones. The newer 580 series are a much better shooting gun.

Have you tried one of those accu struts? I just don't see how clamping an object to a barrel can be helpful for accuracy.

[Tazman1602]

Having dealt with several mini 14's I wouldn't bother with one of the older ones. The newer 580 series are a much better shooting gun.

Have you tried one of those accu struts? I just don't see how clamping an object to a barrel can be helpful for accuracy.

Have one of the accu-struts waiting for me to get done with baseline shooting and they DO work, have installed them on several clients guns and they have been very happy with them. Problem with the older Mini's is stock bedding and the little barrels, struts stabilize the barrel and directly affect accuracy.

Hmmmmm, newer series 580's? I've had these Mini's for at least 15 years and paid something like $450 each for them, I understand Ruger has ironed out the issues with the new series guns but have you seen the prices???? Almost $1000 MSRP. Even at a discount if I was going to spend that much money on a gun of this type I'd probably buy an AR platform of some type.

............or a Remington 700 VSS fluted, I'm really a bolt guy at heart and I like shooting cast which I won't do with a Mini..................

Art

[W.R.Buchanan]

Art: dealer price on a current mini is about $580 Street price should be around $680. Look on Gunbroker or Guns America. Our retail outlets here in CA are asking $850

I paid $625 for mine about 4 years ago and it was used, however it was not really used, it had had maybe 20 rounds thru it.

Mine threw Wolf steel cases 40 feet to the right. With the adjustable gas block I can stop it from cycling completely or with one turn open it poops spent cases out 3 feet to the right of the gun. No need to work on the charging handle as with the gas system choked down the handle hitting the brass doesn't happen.

The main reason for the accuracy issues is the gun cycling so hard it repositions the action in the stock with every shot when the op rod hits the front of the receiver.

While you're at it get a buffer for the op rod.

You've shot the thing, you have to have noticed how hard the thing hits when it is shot. Choking it down makes the gun cycle much smoother. Mine is an absolute joy to shoot.

I ran 500+ rounds thru it in a 4 day Practical Rifle Class at Front Sight last summer. The gun never burped or farted even one time and was so smooth the instructors were asking to shoot the gun. The gun was hardly even dirty after 500 rounds, and now it is broke in really nicely and runs so smooth.

I just took it apart to examine the insides last week and at all of the wear points there was only slight removal of the black finish. There was also no powder residue in the front handguard, I was so surprised, I had expected a real mess from 500 rnds, but it seems all the crud gets blown out of the gun with each shot. I use Lubriplate on all of the wear points inside the gun and apparently it works.

Your new gass block should at least have several orifices so you can regulate the gun. If it is fixed you need to send it back and get the adjustable one, as there is no way it will be right ,,, let alone optimum for the ammo you are shooting.

This is the single best thing you can do to one of these guns. Why Ruger doesn't deal with this problem is beyond me. These guns get a bad rap becasue of one simple problem that could be fixed with one small part change.

Mine goes "kerplink,,,plunk" every time you fire it, which is a very satisfying noise to hear when you pull the trigger.

Randy

[Tazman1602]

GREAT post Randy!

Yup, those are the exact issues I'm trying to cure with this gun. MAN when it cycles I can just feel the metal beating the hell out of itself, no reason for that.

I *may* have made a mistake as I bought the non-adjustable gas block that ASI sells through Brownells but the accu-strut won't fit (or so the ad goes) with the adjustable gas block. I may end up buying the adjustable gas block but am going to try the non-adjust since I already have it. It's supposed to be made by ASI according to Brownells but came in a Brownells bag and has NO ASI markings on it I could find. Might be I'll write them about that one......

I even looked at another gas block I've got and was wondering why I couldn't make a bushing to stuff in a stock gas block and set it in with stud and bearing mount loctite to stop that banging and the brass being thrown out to BFE. I have found that if I park my truck sideways where I shoot out back about 25' to the right and line it up right I can toss most of the brass in the bed -- hey at least it's repeatable!

I *had* been thinking about an AR platform but after studying the way the Mini works (I just don't like the AR's gas impingement system) I am convinced the piston design of the mini is superior -- and I also found the same thing you already know. Last weekend when BIL and I went out and shot we cleaned the guns. The chamber in his AR was FILTHY from all the gases that get stuffed back there, I was sure my mini was going to be at least a little dirty..........but even after sitting in the safe all these years and shooting 200+ rounds though it I was amazed -- as was BIL that it was as clean as it was...

I have seen the prices on GB and do know they are much less than MSRP it's just that Ruger through me for a loop when I was on their site, SHEESH...

Yup, got some buffers coming also and there's another story. The boys over on Perfect Union forum have had some fit issues with the Buff-Shok brand but some bright boy over there discovered that Wilson Combat 1911 buffers fit perfect........and are around $7 for a package of six. Going to try that also since I've got a few 1911's that might benefit from this also.

You know, after being on this forum for a few years now, I finally got all my levers shooting exactly the way I want them with my cast bullets so I know I can take any one of them out and shoot where I want. Kind of like my motorcycle that is ten years old. After five years of testing and working on it, its just wash and ride now.......

......boring! I like working on guns *almost* as much as I like shooting them to tell the truth which is probably why I like casting so much.

Keep the good advice and experiences coming!

Thanks!

Art

[Hardcast416taylor]

The way I see it about the difference between the Mini and the AR systems is that the Mini is a decendant of the M-14 system and that is a decendant of the M-1 Garand system. All are piston operated and date back to the late `30`s. Could there be something to this? Why are `smiths making piston operation changes to the AR platform rifles if the AR system is so good to begin with? `Nuff said.Robert

[Tazman1602]

The way I see it about the difference between the Mini and the AR systems is that the Mini is a decendant of the M-14 system and that is a decendant of the M-1 Garand system. All are piston operated and date back to the late `30`s. Could there be something to this? Why are `smiths making piston operation changes to the AR platform rifles if the AR system is so good to begin with? `Nuff said.Robert

Hey Bob -- did you get my PM about the PP bullets you sent me? Still waiting on some stuff for the .338.

You are dead on about the piston system, I see a lot of AR guys are changing over to piston systems on their AR's..........for a whole bunch of money!

Art

[Jailer]

Have one of the accu-struts waiting for me to get done with baseline shooting and they DO work, have installed them on several clients guns and they have been very happy with them. Problem with the older Mini's is stock bedding and the little barrels, struts stabilize the barrel and directly affect accuracy.

Hmmmmm, newer series 580's? I've had these Mini's for at least 15 years and paid something like $450 each for them, I understand Ruger has ironed out the issues with the new series guns but have you seen the prices???? Almost $1000 MSRP. Even at a discount if I was going to spend that much money on a gun of this type I'd probably buy an AR platform of some type.

............or a Remington 700 VSS fluted, I'm really a bolt guy at heart and I like shooting cast which I won't do with a Mini..................

Art

I can get a new stainless synthetic stock 580 series GB for $685 + tax. I like the mini 14's but I've already got a bunch of AR's so the last thing I need is another 223 caliber rifle. Maybe some day if I have some disposable cash laying around (yeah right).


The way I see it about the difference between the Mini and the AR systems is that the Mini is a decendant of the M-14 system and that is a decendant of the M-1 Garand system. All are piston operated and date back to the late `30`s. Could there be something to this? Why are `smiths making piston operation changes to the AR platform rifles if the AR system is so good to begin with? `Nuff said.Robert

I've tried the piston thing and I'm not impressed. I'll stick with a DI AR, they just plain work.

And before you try to tell me how a DI gun will muck up the works and it won't run, let me tell you how many times I've had to slam the action open on a stuck mini 14. Not trying to start a pissin match, just saying each system has it's own merits and pitfalls.

Randy couldn't be more on the money when it comes to the mini14. They are so overgassed it isn't even funny. Taming the gas system down makes them a completely different gun.

[jmsj]

I have 2 stainless steel Mini-14 Ranch Rifles and like them both.
I cannot remember a failure to feed or eject in either of them. One of them I used as a truck gun back when I was still a working cowboy here in New Mexico. I left one in the truck for 2 years w/o cleaning and it always fired and fed everytime. This one had a Clark harmonic stabilizer on it and it is a great shooter and has shot many sub MOA 3 shot groups.
When I get extra cash I am going to have toget one of those adjustable gas blocks.
jmsj

[Tracy]

Tazman, why wouldn't it be a cast boolit gun? Especially an earlier one with the slow twist. I never tried boolits in my Mini when I had one (bought during the AWB, sold because I couldn't find any high-cap mags that worked) but I shoot boolits in my AR, and it's 1:9".

[Tazman1602]

Tazman, why wouldn't it be a cast boolit gun? Especially an earlier one with the slow twist. I never tried boolits in my Mini when I had one (bought during the AWB, sold because I couldn't find any high-cap mags that worked) but I shoot boolits in my AR, and it's 1:9".

Weeeellllll Tracy it's like this. A lot of guys shoot cast in their .30 cals -- I do not, don't see the point in it. The whole point of a .30 cal or .223 is speed so I shoot jacketed out of those rifles.

All of my big bore stuff - .444, .450 Marlin, 45-70, etc will never anything but cast except for the .450 which really likes a certain load I have for it.

Not saying it can't be done, I know it can, but I shoot enough cast in handguns and the big bore stuff to pollute the land forever....<grin>

That being said, if I had a bolt .223 I *might* try the cruise missle mold I've got for that but not in my Mini's...both of my Mini's have a 1-9 twist in them which should stabilize up to 70 grain bullets.

Art

[Hardcast416taylor]

Hey Bob -- did you get my PM about the PP bullets you sent me? Still waiting on some stuff for the .338.

You are dead on about the piston system, I see a lot of AR guys are changing over to piston systems on their AR's..........for a whole bunch of money!

Art


Hey Taz!! Now you know why I hate both winter and snow plows! Glad you found the box of boolets still usable. Short on time so I`ll PM you later.Robert

[MtGun44]

Any opinions on whether glassbedding the Mini action to the stock will help the accuracy
issues? I have an early one and it is 4-5" at 100 most of the time, so not too
impressive. I think I will make up a gas block bushing and make a much smaller hole
and then bring it up in increments until it just cycles. Sounds like this is a good
start on improving accy, but I wonder if glass bedding will help some, too.

Bill

[bob208]

i have one that was made about 79-80. paid $200 for it used in 88. i can hit soda cans at 100 yd. off hand with it. after i cleaned the jacket fouling out of the barrel. i don't expect it to do any better. keep it by the bed for things that go bump in the night.

[zxcvbob]

I bought a new 581 Ranch Rifle with nice walnut stock and a 16" barrel with flash suppressor a month ago. $679 at CDNN with a 30-round mag, free shipping, and a fancy "tactical" flashlight thrown in.

I've only taken it out once so far, and did that BANG! (clean) BANG! (clean) thing for about 10 rounds, then took it home and field-stripped and greased it good. Next time I'll be shooting it for fun.

I was shooting Tula ammo, and the stuff seems accurate enough but it's loaded so light it wouldn't cycle cleanly and pick up the next round. Sometimes they would eject OK but short-cycle the action, and sometimes they'd hang in the ejector port. Of course part of the problem could've been the gun wasn't greased yet. [smilie=1: Glad I only bought one box of that stuff. (btw, the steel cases are reloadable)

I've got a bunch of M193 and M855 ammo for it, and a few hundred pieces of range-pick-up brass all cleaned and trimmed and ready to reload. Just waiting for warm weather.

[Tazman1602]

Any opinions on whether glassbedding the Mini action to the stock will help the accuracy
issues? I have an early one and it is 4-5" at 100 most of the time, so not too
impressive. I think I will make up a gas block bushing and make a much smaller hole
and then bring it up in increments until it just cycles. Sounds like this is a good
start on improving accy, but I wonder if glass bedding will help some, too.

Bill

Bill -- $35 gets you a set of three bushings and you can download the guys glass bedding video FREE:

http://www.greatwestgunsmithing.com/

He has some other great vids on the Mini14 also and answers all emails.

Art

[MtGun44]

Thanks, Art.

Bill

[Tazman1602]

Hey all,

This is what it's looking like - I only put the bipod on it so I could take decent pics for you.

ATI stock is excellent but the biggest accuracy improvement so far seems to have been the accu-strut barrel stabilizer -- don't even think of putting one of these on unless you are willing to drill "dimples" in the gas block to stop it from "walking" forward.

Still need to do trigger work and am waiting on gas bushings and Wilson shock buffers --- Randy did you put buffers on the op rod AND the gas block or just at the op rod?

Oh yeah, one more thing. Wife took it out and shot it and LOVED the adjustable stock so we are going to build her one out of the other Mini I"ve got.............I wouldn't let her steal mine!

Enjoy! Let me know what you think, I know some of you just hate Mini's and AR's and just so's you know, I"ve had these mini's long enough that even with all the stuff I've changed I still have less than an AR platform in it.

Took it out and shot it last weekend -- 100yd accuracy is impossible with my eyes and the red dot but it still went from 4-6" down to 3-5" at 100yds. Going to stuff a scope on it this weekend and do some more shooting.

Art

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc336/Tazman1602/Rifle%20Builds/MiniBuild.jpg

[zxcvbob]

I was shooting Tula ammo, and the stuff seems accurate enough but it's loaded so light it wouldn't cycle cleanly and pick up the next round. Sometimes they would eject OK but short-cycle the action, and sometimes they'd hang in the ejector port. Of course part of the problem could've been the gun wasn't greased yet. [smilie=1: Glad I only bought one box of that stuff. (btw, the steel cases are reloadable)


I shot the rest of that box of Tula, after having greased the bolt, slide, spring, etc, and it worked just fine. My initial problem was just a user error. :???: If I find the ammo for less than $5 again, I'm going to buy a few boxes.

[Tazman1602]

http://www.classicfirearms.co/ammunition.htm

About 3/4 of the way down the page. There WERE better prices by 5-$10 but it appears they are all sold out. Glad I got some while the getting was good...........

Art

[W.R.Buchanan]

just the op rod.

Randy

[Jack Stanley]

I have a pal that would start drooling at that "tacticool" mini you have there .

After being twice bit by mini-14 rifles that wouldn't group six inches at a hundred yards it's unlikely I'll try again with my money . I did get a chance to shoot several of the "government" models with the short sight radius , wide front sight , flash hider and bayonet lug . They seemed to run all the time but the complaints of ejecting cases into the next county and accuracy were still there . I still think somebody got paid to pick that rifle for the department .

I think I saw one of the new models at a show a couple years ago . It acutally had a nice looking stock that looked a little light for American walnut and it wasn't birch . It also had mounting for rings as part of the receiver which was a change from the two turkeys I had . I don't remember for sure but I think it had a change in the buttpad as well . All in all it looked quite nice , I had the money and could have bought it but remembering my experience from the last two stopped me .

It's good to hear you guys are getting good performance from them .

Jack

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I like how the minis look like the M1As but that is about it. Happy for the guys that get good groups out of their minis, but most minis I have come across can be easily out shot by a $200-$300 SKS.

I have yet to see an inaccurate AR style rifle in 223.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Bill Ruger was told by Robert McNamara that if the Mini14 would have been ready 2 years earlier there would have been no M16.

With 50 years of military development into the Mini14 you can rest assured that we all would be singing a different tune.

Can you imagine the conversations we would be having now about how accurate our Mini's are, and all of the configurations, and all of the accessories available,,, and how those damned AR's are unreliable ***'s and jam all the time when you get just a little dirt in them, and shoot the bullets sideways.

The M16 I shot in AF Basic Training keyholed every one of my 60 shots. The DI's said it was supposed to do that. I rolled my eyes,,, and got to drop and do 20!

With the amount of development and money that has gone into the AR rifle,,, IT SHOULD BE PERFECT by now ! No other firearm in history with the possible exception of the 1911 has received so much attention, development and tweeking.

From a purely functional stand point the mini design is far superior IE Garand, in a battlefield environment. It is essentially "Piston Driven" like the new AR's are, and will run far beyond any AR with less maintanence.

As I said above with the amount of money and attention that has been put into the AR design it should be the Perfect Battle Rifle, and have no negative attributes whatsoever. WE all know this is not the case.

Still, I wouldn't volunteer to be shot with either one. I have no use for an AR, doesn't mean I don't know how to use one.

Randy

[tenx]

I really like the looks and feel of the mini, the fact it's all steel (well mostly) but after paying a considerable sum of money for one you have to spend more money and time (both are in short supply lately) trying to make a decent shooter out of it, not a tack driver, just a decent acceptable shooter. The newer rifles may shoot better but after being burned twice by the mini, why take a chance on another one. Didn't mean to rant and vent but Ruger could have done something long ago about the poor accuracy of the mini.

[Tazman1602]

I really like the looks and feel of the mini, the fact it's all steel (well mostly) but after paying a considerable sum of money for one you have to spend more money and time (both are in short supply lately) trying to make a decent shooter out of it, not a tack driver, just a decent acceptable shooter. The newer rifles may shoot better but after being burned twice by the mini, why take a chance on another one. Didn't mean to rant and vent but Ruger could have done something long ago about the poor accuracy of the mini.

They did. In 2003 due to complaints about accuracy, Ruger shut down the Mini-14 line and did an 18 month revamp of tooling and manufacturing. The new Mini's are actually very accurate.

What I like doing is buying the older "Hell it ain't accurate, sell it for $300 today" Mini's and then making them accurate. Doesn't take that much money to do so, just some knowledge and skill.

The thing about it is it's too late, the Mini rep has already been ruined by the early models but they're easy to fix.

As far as the brass flinging issue goes, mine was one of those and it is not anymore. A simple gas bushing change took care of that one.

Now it's just "ker-plonk, ker-plonk, ker-plonk" in a nice pile about five feet from the gun.

Still have to work on the op rod a bit, brass still seems to be hitting it on ejection.

All you mini haters send me an offer on what you would sell those *** Rugers for...................

And for those of you who hate the mini just because it's a semi-auto? How is tweaking and fiddling with a semi any different than spending hundreds of hours figuring out what size cast bullet my S&W's or H&R Single shots differ??? I guess you have to like working on guns.

If all I had to do was work on guns out in my shop, I would never "work" another day in my life...........that's just me.

Art

[Mark85304]

I have a brand new 851 Mini-14 and I love it. I had one in the 80s and did not like it because it threw brass everywhere and I could not get it to group for my life. This new one however is much better. It still flings brass, but it keeps it in an area about 10 feet and about 15 feet immediately to my right. It groups pretty well as it is, but I'm not looking for a tack driver either. I'll have the bumper put on the action to tame the brass and I'll have trigger work done on it, but my SS Mini-14 is a keeper.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I have 2 of the government mini 14 with flash hiders and bayonet lugs , I like them , lot of fun , and I am not expecting benchrest results with them , remind me of my garands , and that is the reason I like them , good design reliable and I trust them, having said that I own ar15 also and they are fun too

[6.5 mike]

Till Friday I had not shot mine with a scope on it, do have a red dot. Was very surprized how well it did. An old 180 series I got used for $165 in '86. The other one I had was the same way, same series. For what I want it for I do'nt care where the brass goes.

[tenx]

I realize Ruger did finally do something to improve the mini but they could have done it long ago instead of taking our $$ all these years and giving us a rifle that was really lacking in the accuracy dept. as the mini was. Come on now, how many of us buy a rifle to shoot patterns with? If the mini could pace the AR in the accuracy dept. a lot more people would be shooting a mini-14. And the gas bushing change in the Ranch rifle to keep your fired brass in the same zip code, Ruger had to make a gas bushing anyway, why not make one slightly smaller in the first place. I'm not a mini hater, I don't understand why we should have to address so many issues with a new gun when the factory should have delt with when in the gun was in the research & development phase of engineering.