Introducing the 400 BTS Mag!

[BT Sniper]

I've been droping a few hints about a project I have been working on for a while. As many of you know the 40cal/10mm bullet from 9mm brass is one of my fovorite bullets to make and shoot. I have told many of you it is the easiest and cheepest bullet to make and shoot.

For allmost 4 years now I have been making and designing bullets out of brass cases to fit know cartridges. Now for the first time I have designed (with a bit of help) a new wildcat cartridge to fit a known bullet.

My goal was to be able to test my fovorite 40 cal bullets out of a bolt action rifle. I wanted to prove these bullets are capible of accuracy way and beyond their orginal design purpose as a pistol bullet. So away I went necking up various cases to 40 cal.

With a bit of guidance and suggestions from a good friend I settled on 2 parent cases. The 300wm and the 308 win. I had a large supply of 300wm brass so this had a bit of influence on my decision.

So what I have now is a test platform in an accurate bolt action riffle to test my favorite 40 cal bullets made from 9mm bras up to 3100FPS and beyond with anything inbetween as far as velocity.

Let me introduce you all to the

400 BTS Mag

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070026.jpg


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070037.jpg


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070034.jpg



typical 40 cal bullet, 40-308, 40-300WSM, 40-300WM aka 400 BTS Mag
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060909.jpg


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070189.jpg


It is a powerful 40 cal made from necked up 300WM brass. So far I have been able to push my 190 grain 40 cal bullets to 3090FPS and also the 40 cal Hornady XTP Muzzel loader bullet to 2900 FPS with great accuracy.

I would imagine the potential and performance of this cartridge will be similar to the current wildcat, the 416 Taylor which is simply the 458 Win necked down to 416.

This 400 BTS Mag is more power then anything I'm sure I need but with the advantage to shoot my easy to make one step 40 cal bullets from 9mm brass I couldn't resist :)

I had a good friend thread a Walter Lothar 40 cal barrel to fit a Savage 110 action. It has a 1-16 twist and finshed out at about 18" in length. I installed the barrel myself and so far the testing looks very good. I expect to put some large holes in many different forms of test media with this bullet.

Enjoy the pics and I'll have more info to add I'm sure about this powerful new cartridge to shoot my favorite 40 cal bullets from. Who would have thought a 9mm piece of brass would be shooting 3100! Well I guess I allready did that with the 308x9mm bullet but this one is a lot easier to make and potentialy more accurate :)

Good Shooting and Swage On!

BT

[frank martinez]

Very creative BT. I applaud your insight and all the work you put into it. If you don't mind I will also post this over on the Accurate Reloading Wildcat thread. Those guys really love using over 40 rifles.
Frank

[BT Sniper]

Feel free to post and pass on.

Thanks

BT

[rockrat]

What dia. is the bullet, and how much for a die. I have a 405 Win that could use some new food.

[BT Sniper]

.400 same bullet that we shoot in the 40 S&W and 10mm.

Is that the same diameter you need?

BT

[khamill2000]

I want a 40-308 barrel for my LR-308

[BT Sniper]

I got one for my Savage. I intend to shoot it next very soon. Allready got a $300 donor savage gshort action to put it on.

If interest is enough we might be able to put somthing together for a group buy of some sorts.

BT

[khamill2000]

Wouldn't necessarily need a group buy. Just a talented machinist to ream the chambers and make some reloading dies. Or am I missing something?

Edit- I guess the bore would still need enlarged/rifled

[375RUGER]

so when will we see targets?

[375RUGER]

never mind. found the other thread.

[rockrat]

Nope, need a .411" for the .405Win

[Grandpas50AE]

Brian,
Really nice looking work there. Great looking cartridge and it will be interesting to see results from a hunting trip. You are an intrepid explorer indeed.

[41 mag fan]

Man.....I just got electrocuted from drooling all over my laptop. I'm glad Ihave GFI circuits in the house!!

Man that's a gorgeous rifle.

Now I've got to go change my shirt...it's wet down the front.

[BT Sniper]

Thanks guys,

Here is the targets i shot with the 190 grain bullets from 9mm brass loaded with H-335 powder. Target was only at 75 yrds but I'll soon be testing them much farther. You should be able to see the charge listed on the target.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070203.jpg


and here is some targets from the 200 grain SST bullet. In both cases the 75 grain load shot best. The first two shots with the SST and 75 grains of H-335 went into the same hole then the target sticker fell off so I lost my POA and didn't fire the third.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070209.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070206.jpg



DATA

RP fire formed match prepped brass
RP 10 year old mag large riffle primers
H-335 powder
Hornady SST 200 grain ML bullets
BTS 189 grain CH profile .250 meplat bullets from 9mm brass Wheel Weight cores.
80 thou off lands at 3.250 OAL
Stevens long action, BVSS stock
Target trigger less then 1lb


Load - SST Bullet FPS

64.5 - 2583

68.0 - 2717, 2689, 2728

71.0 - 2822, 2793, 2741

73.0 - 2829, 2846, 2850

75.0 - 2867, 2914, error

76.0 - 2882, 2887, 2920

77.0 - 2930, 2863, 2969


Average group size

.90"

Best group was 1 hole, only two shot though with the 75 grain load



Load - BTS Bullet FPS

73.0 - 2833, 2860, 2899

75.0 - 2914, 2882, 2965

77.0 - 3075, 3046, 3030

78.0 - 3005, 2918, 2957

79.0 - 3092!


Average group size 1.4"

Best group was 1.2" with 73 grain load but less vertical stringing with 75 grain load.

Heck it was all shot off a boulder while standing and a new barrel. I would hope I can improve upon the group size :)


Good shooting

BT

[BT Sniper]

Nope, need a .411" for the .405Win

The 41 mag dies make good .410 bullets and I could lap it an extra thou to get you great .411 bullets from 9mm brass. Two die set runs $385.

BT

[BT Sniper]

Another look at the rifle and set up day of testing.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070181.jpg



http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070193.jpg




and check out the size of that mouth! Loaded round has a 225 grain SP made from 9mm brass. I used a 158 grain .358 for the core. Think I'll try those bullets out next. Should make a heck of a hole. Matter of fact I intend to try bullets up to atleast 350 grains. Probably size down some 40 S&W for jackets, maybe even soem 3/8" copper tubing bullets?
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070032.jpg

[475AR]

Them some great looking bullets, is the FP one you can make with your dies?
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/41freak/BT40FP.jpg

Also Love the "Nosler" like HP. (Can that also be done with the .500 dies?)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/41freak/BT40HP.jpg

[toolz568]

I have a donor FN mauser 98 that needs a barrel and no gunsmith in the area. I would be interested and I need the Airsoft BB tipped bullet option. PM sent.

[BT Sniper]

YEP! You can make bullets like this with any of my dies, Typicaly I set them up with a standard HP nose punch but any shape HP or FN nose is possible. It is nothing more then a simple swap of the nose punch pin in the die. let me know if you want a Flat nose punch with your 500 die. I'm not fimilar with the "nolser" nose shape or HP but I love this HP look. Imigine those cheap plastic oil funels, that is what the HP punch looks like. http://www.buytikitorches.com/tiki-torches-oil/funnel-small

I'll make a cross cut of this HP one of these days.

I got your PMs, I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

BT

[BT Sniper]

I don't know about actions other then savages to fit barrels to. The savage is so easy to swap barrels that anyone with a bit of smarts can do it. I'm not an official GS myself but I did set the headspace and install this barrel myself on this Savage/Stevens 110 action.

BT

[sargenv]

Not to mention even heavier bullets made from the 38 super comp/38 TJ or 9x23 cases that you can occasionally find at ranges...

I've been wanting to make up a heavy weight 40 cal pistol bullet from one of these cases since the 610 has 1.6" of space to expand into with an extra long bullet.. I just really don't have a need for one at the moment.. :)

[zuke]

Look's like it'll stop dead in their track's!
Great work and an inspiration!

[nicholst55]

While I applaud your imagination, innovation and work, I would think that this cartridge would really shine with bullets in the 350-400 grain range. Shooting sub-200 grain bullets out of a .40 rifle? Sort of like shooting 125 grain .357 bullets out of a .35 Whelen - good for plinking or shooting rabbits, but not for serious use. Still pretty darn cool, but not utilizing the potential of the cartridge.

Maybe I read too many articles by Elmer Keith when I was coming up. Elmer was a well-known advocate of the 'big-and-slow' philosophy...

[BT Sniper]

OH YEAH! I expect to make some heavy hitters. Allready got load data for some 350 grain bullets. Just have to make them.

I figure I got the 40-308 or 10-51 or 40BTS for these lighter bullets and will use the 400 BTS Mag for the heavy thumpers!

I just wanted to see how fast these same bullets we shoot in our 40s and 10mms would go and still be accurate.

BT

[BT Sniper]

Data I have at the moment shows about 2300FPS with a 350 grain bullet and 2500FPS with a 300 grain bullet. Just computer data for now but I was able to duplicate the 200 grain data plus about 100FPS with ease and no pressure.

[475AR]

YEP! You can make bullets like this with any of my dies, Typicaly I set them up with a standard HP nose punch but any shape HP or FN nose is possible. It is nothing more then a simple swap of the nose punch pin in the die. let me know if you want a Flat nose punch with your 500 die. I'm not fimilar with the "nolser" nose shape or HP but I love this HP look. Imigine those cheap plastic oil funels, that is what the HP punch looks like. http://www.buytikitorches.com/tiki-torches-oil/funnel-small

I'll make a cross cut of this HP one of these days.

I got your PMs, I'll get back to you as soon as I can. I have the 500 core seat die ready to assemble for you and the XTP notch die also works perfectly and is availble.

BT

Yes I will also want the FP punch along with the "funnel" HP punch for the .500 die set. as to the "Nosler" HP;
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/41freak/TheRealNosler.jpg

Look familiar.........
When you have a chance let me know what the damage is for the notch punch and the flatbase punch for commercial jackets and I will get funds out to you ASAP.

[475AR]

OH YEAH! I expect to make some heavy hitters. Allready got load data for some 350 grain bullets. Just have to make them.

I figure I got the 40-308 or 10-51 or 40BTS for these lighter bullets and will use the 400 BTS Mag for the heavy thumpers!

I just wanted to see how fast these same bullets we shoot in our 40s and 10mms would go and still be accurate.

BT

These would also work very well in your new round, these are 200gr but I have done them up to 375gr and they shoot :guntootsmiley:
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/41freak/4304S2.jpg

[BT Sniper]

What cal and case are those? They look great! Copper tubing jacket? 50 cal? or are they in fact 40? Yes a 40 cal bullet like that would be AWESOME in the 400 BTS mag.

If they are 40s let me know I would be interested to shoot a few, maybe we can work somthing out.

Yep the nosler HP looks fimilar. :) I have experimented with many different shape HPs but I like that one a lot. Looks cool and forms up very nicly.

Thanks

BT

[475AR]

What cal and case are those? They look great! Copper tubing jacket? 50 cal? or are they in fact 40? Yes a 40 cal bullet like that would be AWESOME in the 400 BTS mag.

If they are 40s let me know I would be interested to shoot a few, maybe we can work somthing out.

Yep the nosler HP looks fimilar. :) I have experimented with many different shape HPs but I like that one a lot. Looks cool and forms up very nicly.

Thanks

BT

Yep, they are .40 caliber, and I also do them in .500 caliber. Pm me and let me know what you want. Those were tubing jackets but I also have some standard jackets I can use depending on weight wanted. The case is 45win mag necked down to 40 caliber.think of it as a 40 super supermag. 180 gr bullets @ 2000 fps in a 10.5" barrel.

[BT Sniper]

Cool! That is the 400 corbon isn't it? necked down 45 auto to 40 cal.

I send you a PM soon.

BT

[475AR]

Cool! That is the 400 corbon isn't it? necked down 45 auto to 40 cal.

I send you a PM soon.

BT

They are similar, but the 40 super runs at a higher psi. 135gr bullets @ 1650fps out of a 5"barrel if i remember correctly.

[toolz568]

Did you make your own dies and how is the recoil? I can see a 40-06 in the future if I can get dies and find someone to thread and ream the barrel. Aslo, I completly missed the fact you sell other nose punches. PM sent to order some.

[BT Sniper]

I simply reamed the neck of a set of 300 WM dies up to propper diminitions but I intend to send the fired brass to Hornady for them to make a set of dies for me. Attempting to do it yourself is not the best method as I'm sure I got a bit of runout in the die now.

Don't know about the recoil yet, shot it with a break and a lead rest.

BT

[PhilOhio]

Brian, I'm seeing this thread for the first time at the end of March. Congratulations. I think you are onto the highest and best use for these rather thick, hard jacketed .40 bullets swaged in pistol cases. In my opinion, they are much under-utilized in a handgun.

One suggestion: Instead of wheel weight metal, you might try pure, soft lead. With tough jackets, it will open up better and progressively, with deep penetration. It will not open up too much or too early, because that hard jacket works like a girdle, controlling the rate of expansion. You may recall my photos of these things penetrating 9" of solid wood, with just the 10mm pistol round. In the 300 grain range, with lots of powder in a big case, and at around 3000 fps, these should stop any North American big game. That puts you on the map.

While those big belted cases will give impressive results, they are an expensive and unnecessary hassle to obtain and offer little or nothing in return. Common .30-06 brass would attract a wider market, and do the same thing. That, I think, would increase the chance of such a new round becoming a keeper instead of just an interesting new wildcat of passing note.

My guess is that your widest market might be for the .308 case version. The brass is cheap and is everywhere. It will fit most actions out there. The round would not be the biggest powerhouse on the block, but it should be a great one for medium size game in brush country at moderate ranges. And that is one of our most common types of hunting. I really like this one.

It seems to me that, with the .308 brass, this round could be a step up from smokeless .45-70 and .444 Marlin loads. You get slightly better range, velocity, sectional density, ballistic coefficient, probably penetration, and flatter trajectory. Neat.

As for the .40 bullets in handguns, I've found them most useful in Glock polygon rifled barrels, where some folks feel lead bullets are somehow questionable (which has not been my experience). And they are good in the 10mm round, because you can drive them really fast. In the rest of the .40s, at velocities in the 800 to 1100 fps range, they are nice but largely unnecessary. I can do the same thing with lead bullets, and much more easily.

So again, Congratulations on having found a really great use for these bullets, and I think you have just touched the tip of the iceberg.

[BT Sniper]

Thanks Phil,

I agree it is just the tip of the iceberg. I'll certainly try all sorts of bullet combinations in weight, alloy vs. pure lead cores, different brass cases for jackets, even copper tubbing, etc. etc.

The 400 BTS mag was a "just because I can" cartridge, I had over 1,000 cases of 300 WM brass so I went for it. It is a A LOT of bang for the buck that's for sure. I wanted to show the accuracy potential of these 40 cal bullets made from 9mm brass at longer range and higher FPS. I figure if they are accurate at 3100FPS and 100 yrds they should be more then accurate at 25 yrds and 1,000 FPS from our pistols.

I think the 40-308 will be a much more practical and enjoyable cartridge to shoot. I have the barrel and action all set and ready just need to put it all together and start forming and loading brass.

I didn't really venture into these wildcat cartridges for a business/profit stand point. More of a accurate test platform to test 40 cal bullets. I imagine the fun I will have from these cartridges shooting simple 40 cal bullets from 9mm brass may just rub off onto others here though :) I certainly see myself shooting a lot of the 40-308. I can make a pile of bullets at 185 grains and load them up in either the 40 S&W or the 40-308 or the 400 BTS mag. One bullet with lots of potential. Should increase my fun factor as well as cost benifits of these simple cheap bullets.

YOu all can expect lots of fun and exciting range reports from these bullets. Matter of fact I'm up for suggestions as to what sort of test media challenges you all can come up with to test the potential of these bullets at higher FPS. I'm thinking bricks, wet newspapper of course, an engine block would be COOL! Large pine trees (got alot of them around here) :) Bowling balls? I'm up for suggestions.

BT

[PhilOhio]

The toughness and thickness of these 9mm cartridge case jackets, even fully annealed, is always going to be a limiting factor, at moderate velocities. The metallurgy is totally different than dedicated copper bullet jackets. That's why I suggested soft lead cores. And for the same reason, having as much exposed lead on the hollowpoint is ideal. That was how I finally got big expansion with the handgun bullets, fired at anything.

So I still suggest trimming about 3/16" from case mouths to get a big, soft, exposed lead hollowpoint. That will make a really destructive and impressive mushroom with the .40-308.

Test media? With that bullet and rifle velocity, almost anything will do. Wet newspapers, a box full of soft moist earth, plastic gallon wter jugs, mellons...they should all open the bullet right up.

The .40-308 looks like it should be a fairly easy reamer to make. Same with reloading dies. If this can be a fairly easy and inexpensive round to get set up for, lots of people would be interested in giving it a try. I can't over emphasize the importance of keeping setup costs down. There's no reason not to consider making a few bucks from a good idea, although I agree that, for most of us, the fun is in the experimentation. But if somebody with CNC equipment can mass produce dies for about half the cost of custom dies, and still at a decent profit, those sets will go flying out the door.

But the first thing is more testing, to see how it works, compared to what's already out there. That's how gun writers would look at it.

[Bwana]

"The toughness and thickness of these 9mm cartridge case jackets, even fully annealed, is always going to be a limiting factor, at moderate velocities. The metallurgy is totally different than dedicated copper bullet jackets. That's why I suggested soft lead cores. And for the same reason, having as much exposed lead on the hollowpoint is ideal. That was how I finally got big expansion with the handgun bullets, fired at anything."

I have been using cartridge brass for bullets for thirty years and I have not found this to be true. Of course there is a learning curve; but, I'm so far down the road I can't even remember making it . Even rifle brass (308, 30-06) makes fine jackets for the 44 Mag. Of course you'll find all this out yourself if you experiment enough.

[BT Sniper]

Yeah, I don't think I'll have any problem with expansion from any of the 40 cal cartridges. I can get nice mushrooms from the 40S&W with wheel weight alloy cores in wet newspaper. It should be a lot of fun.

9mm shot from 40 S&W @ 1000 FPS without any XTP notches
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/40buldge028.jpg

with notches
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060064.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060066.jpg

a 44 mag bullet from 40 S&W brass shot in sand by customer
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/recovered44.jpg

I expect I'll see results like this with the big 400, this is a 425 grain .458 with wheel weight alloy core a friend shot into wet earth form a modern 45-70.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/458s002jpg.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/458s006jpg.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/458s005jpg.jpg

and for a bit of terminal performance on game check out what a 30 cal 180 grain bullet made from the 5.7X28 brass does to a Eastern Oregon mule deer.
graphic content!
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/308s028.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/entryhole.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/exithole.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/hamburger.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/hamburger2.jpg


With results like this I'm pretty sure these bullets are up to any challenge we throw at them.

Good shooting and Swage On!

BT

[buck1]

Awsome cool!!!

[BT Sniper]

Thanks Buck! Good to hear from you. I haven't forgot about the 475, I know it has been a while.

I just got the 44 cal reamer so I know what sort of fudge factor I need for future reamers.

I'll certainly keep everyone posted.

BT

[buck1]

Take your time! My new job is taking up all my time right now anyway.

[PhilOhio]

"The toughness and thickness of these 9mm cartridge case jackets, even fully annealed, is always going to be a limiting factor, at moderate velocities. The metallurgy is totally different than dedicated copper bullet jackets. That's why I suggested soft lead cores. And for the same reason, having as much exposed lead on the hollowpoint is ideal. That was how I finally got big expansion with the handgun bullets, fired at anything."

I have been using cartridge brass for bullets for thirty years and I have not found this to be true. Of course there is a learning curve; but, I'm so far down the road I can't even remember making it . Even rifle brass (308, 30-06) makes fine jackets for the 44 Mag. Of course you'll find all this out yourself if you experiment enough.

Well Bwana, having reloaded for 52 years now, and swaged jacketed boolits for 25 of those years, I expect I am fairly far down that learning curve road you mention; maybe even further. I stand behind what I said about the metallurgy and the nature of cartridge brass used for jackets. The simple fact is that it is quite different from dedicated jacket metal, much harder and less ductile than copper jacket metal. And the laws of physics dictate that it thus perform differently. It does. That's why all the boolit manufacturers use relatively softer, and usually thinner, copper alloy jackets, rather than the harder gilding metal used for cases, which require that extra strength to hold pressure and resist the very sort of deformation that we want in expanding boolits. I did not reach my conclusions arbitrarily, or on the basis of what I read on the Internet, but after recovering a lot of bullets. And of course experimentation and learning never stops. But that's pretty much what I've "found out for myself" so far, unassisted by wiser souls with broader experience. :wink:

These boolits using jackets made from annealed cartridge cases are fine boolits, but their use in moderate handgun calibers should take into consideration their special, and in some ways unique, characteristics. An important one is how they perform at the lower velocities, below 1000 fps. That covers most, or at least half, of the common .40 S&W loadings in my reference books and software data bases.

High velocity rifle loadings are a different ball game and, as I said earlier, that's where these boolits should shine.

[Bwana]

My 40S&W rounds, made from cartridge brass and pure lead cores, run 1200fps and have no problem expanding nicely. I hope people get involved in using cartridge brass for bullets as it is very rewarding learning to put everything together so that it works as you intended. As Thomas Edison said, "Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration." And if you have to perspire why not while doing something you enjoy.

[PhilOhio]

Bwana, I couldn't agree with you more. I think these bullets are especially useful because Glock, and other manufacturers, have switched to the polygonal rifling, and there's a lot of differing opinion as to why/whether there is a safety issue with cast lead boolits. I'm not totally decided, but careful experimentation has so far revealed no problems to me. Just to be safe, I have been sticking to the low target loadings, though, since I have not yet learned everything there is to know.

I can't see any logical reason why there should be a lead boolit problem, and some of my very experienced fellow reloaders insist, categorically, that there isbe none. I'm on the fence.

But I know for sure that boolits made with cartridge brass jackets will hold the rifling like commercial jackets, and cause no safety problems whether they expand the same as, less than, or more than copper jackets.

My personal opinion is that, most likely, the isolated cases where cast lead boolits have been involved in burst case or barrel Glock incidents were related more to the reloader pushing safe powder load limits than to any mysterious ways in which moderately firm boolit lead does something or other differently in deep polygonal rifling. It has also been alleged that Glock barrel throating, in the ramp area, is unusually severe and leaves a non-web case area unsupported. I don't know about early Glocks, but on the current Generation 4, this is simply untrue.

Anyhow, I eliminate all such questions by sanely loading the stiffer powder charges behind BT jacketed boolits in defensive loads for my Glock 27 in .40 S&W, and I use lead in the lower pressure target loads and with my Lone Wolf 9mm barrel in the same gun.

Incidentally, this lead boolit question is not a new issue. I first ran into it in the mid-'80s, with my first H&K P7M13, which has true polygonal rifling (not the current type Glock uses) and also a gas port just ahead of the chamber...which can indeed foul the unique gas locking piston if not cleaned rather frequently.

[Plinkster]

BT your awesome wildcat has me dreaming of my own some day! I love the large caliber rifle cartridges with their great bullet weight flexibility. That country the mule deer was taken in looks quite familiar to me. What unit was it taken in? I hunt the Heppner unit myself with a large family contingent. Lots of the east country looks very similar but it sure is beautiful! Gotta mention that having a swage guru like yourself from my home state makes me pretty proud to claim I'm from Orygun! Keep up the spectacular innovation!

[BT Sniper]

Thanks,

I've been hunting the Starky unit most my life. My family (dad and grandpa) grew up hunting heppner unit. Lots of fun stories about big mule deer.

There seems to be a lot of NorthWest intrest in bullets, shooting, swaging and everything related as far as manufactures go. Must be the weather.

It is fun to have something different wether it be a wildcat cartridge or shooting these bullets made from brass.

I hope to have some results from the tamer 40-308 soon.

Good shooting and Swage On!

BT

[toolz568]

The info on the 40-308 should be interesting. The late Col. Townsend Whelen actually developed a .400-06 - necked up to accept a .405 Winchester bullet - Better known as the .400 Whelen. Griffin & Howe chambered rifles for this cartridge, but headspace difficulties were reported with the small shoulder.

Comment edited: The late Col. Townsend Whelen changed the shoulder from the standard .441 to .458. Some companies were producing dies that kept the original 30-06 shoulder at .441, creating headspace problems.
(Smashing the headspace Myth by MICHAEL PETROV)

Good luck and I look forward to hearing the results.

[MIBULLETS]

I have heard that they partially solved this by making it an improved version by increasing the shoulder angle and reducing the case body taper.

[bohica2xo]

Ah, the old "it will never headspace!" argument. Complete garbage.

You can headspace a rimless pistol cartridge on the mouth of the case. About a .010 step, with allowances for fit even less than that.

The 308 has a larger shoulder diameter than the 30-06, and Brian is using a bullet that is .011 smaller in diameter. Not that it matters much.

"Serious headspace problems" Not likely. The only way to apply enough force to move the shoulder back would mean using a LOT of force on the bolt. Remember what it takes in a loading press to push a shoulder back.

If someone single loads a round into a mauser type action and tries to force an unmodofied claw extractor to jump over the rim of the case, you might generate a small setback in the shoulder. Hardly "serious".

B.

[BT Sniper]

I'm pretty sure others have shot the 40-308 successfully allready. I certainly look forward to sending a few bullets down range soon and don't expect I'll have any issues. I think it is going to be a great cartridge!

BT

[toolz568]

bohica2xo,

I was considering the 40-06 and appreciate the feedback and the pushback. You are correct, the shoulder of the 308 is wider than the 30-06 and the original design of the 400 whelen was .458. The problem seems to be that some dies were setting the shoulder to the original design of the 30-06 of .441, not .458, as Townsend Whelen did. The problem seems to be with the dies, not the cartridge. Having the smaller wrong shoulder would cause head spacing problems (Smashing the headspace Myth by MICHAEL PETROV).

I am looking at an article on the .411 Hawk, which has less of a shoulder and no issues.

Again, thanks for the info and I will edit my past comment.

[bohica2xo]

OGOTZ:

Thanks for the update. Nice job on the research.

Sorry if that seemed abrupt, but the internet has spread misinformation far & wide. I have seen it hurt legitimate companies when someone starts re-posting things across forums. Right now a friend is fighting a single post on facebook about his company that has spread all over. Completely in error - it was not even his product that failed. Cost him a lot of money.

Whelen was a bright guy, and G&H never made any junk. The problem as your diligent research has shown is that a bad set of dies caused the loading of ammo that was essentially the wrong caliber. That of course is a bad thing.

B.

.

[toolz568]

The BT 40-06 Ackley Improved is looking like it may happen. Basically taking the .400 Whelen design and using BTsnipers .40 bullets instead of Whelens .411 bullets. I have blown the neck out of a 30-06 and it looks great, but I want to try it out on a 30-06 Ackley improved before I go anywhere with this. Anyone have an idea where I can get a 30-06 Ackley Improved case?

[Plinkster]

Yep, take a 30-06 case neck up and seat the bullet to the lands and fire in an Ackley improved chamber. Instant shoulder, works great in my rifle anyway.

[BT Sniper]

Did some shooting with the 400 BTS MAG again this weekend. 75 grains of H-335 and a muzzel break really clears the sinuses. Got a video to upload and should have it posted soon.

BT

[toolz568]

Plinkster,
Sounds easy enough, but I'm having a hard time finding someone to make the reamer. I figure take a .400 Whelen reamer and grind it down to fit the BT 40 or sleeve a 30-06 ackley up to fit the BT 40. I created one shell and it looks great.

[BT Sniper]

Took some video of my dad shooting the 400 BTS MAG this weekend. Got some still frames off the video.


Just before ignition
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/400btssecondbefore.png



At the moment of igintion.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/400btspreflame.png



Full burn!
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/400magflame.png


BT

[BT Sniper]

Dad and a little light target practice with the 400 BTS

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070289.jpg



:holysheep

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070290.jpg


BT

p.s. kidding

[BT Sniper]

Here is another short video clip of my dad shooting the MAG. Sorry for the profanity but the muzzel blast was EPIC!


click on pic for video!

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/th_P1070284.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/?action=view&current=P1070284.mp4)

BT

[a.squibload]

Oh great, now I want one too!

(Not profanity, just exclamation.)

[BT Sniper]

Lucky there wasn't any other shooters beside us, or unlucky as I'm sure they would of had quite a show!

[toolz568]

Found someone to make the reamer and McGowen for the barrel. Need to find out if mcGowen will Install the barrel if I supply the reamer.

[BT Sniper]

I read on McGowen's sight they would cut the chamber for you with customer supplied reamers. I picked up a 300WM savage barrel of theirs second hand. They look to do good work at a good price. Keep us posted with yoru results. Are you getting it threaded for a savage action? How long of barrel are you thinking?

BT

[BT Sniper]

Any of you guys ever use the COW method of fire forming brass?

COW..... as in Cream of Wheat? It works pretty slick. I used it to fire form the 400 BTS mag cases from 300 WM cases. Lots of details can be found online but I'll break it down in simple terms. Maybe I'll get some pics to post latter. Sure thing I'll be using it to form my BTS40 (40-308) cases.

As always use caution in any reloading and do your research to back up what I have posted. What I have here worked for me.

*Start with a case that has a properly annealed neck and shoulder. You better read up on the difference between properly annealed for live brass vs. the full anneal we do on our bullet jackets!

1. determine your case 100% capisity filled with a pistol powder of some sort of your chosing. I used some extra AA#7 I didn't intend to use for anything else.

2. start with about a %10 charge of the pistol powder you intend to use. Example.... say your case holds 80 grains at full capisitiy you start with 8 grains. In my case I used 11 grains of this powder to fully fire form my brass with.

3. cut a 1/4 square of toilet paper and pack it on top of the %10 powder charge

4. fill case to bottom of neck with instant cream of wheat

5. top of with warm softened piece of parifin wax. Just push the case mouth into the wax to top off the now ready to fire form case.

A fun way to fire form brass and cheaper then loading a full charge of powder, like shooting blanks I suppose but these certainly are not blanks. They will put a dent in a garage door. I fire formed my brass out in the forest with the gun in my trusty shooting vise. So all 100 rounds went to the same piece of dirt about 15' in frount of me. At the end of the session there was a bit of a crater left from the bits of wax tearing up the ground, certainly wouldn't want to get hit with anything like that so keep it safe.

I did still lose about %5 of the cases to split necks and in a couple cases I blew the neck all the off the shoulder of the case, probably had to much wax pushed in there? All in all a very acceptable method of fire formign brass in my opinion. I did run a bore snake threw the barrel every 10 or so rounds to clear out any wax and burnt wheat from the barrel.

BT

[BT Sniper]

By the way...... my dad made a first round hit with the 400 BTS Mag @ 300 yrds on a 12" square piece of steal when we where out shooting last. That was with the 190 grain 40 cal bullet made from 9mm brass @ 3000FPS!

[Stephen Cohen]

Great thread BT, I think I want another wildcat now. I use the same cream of wheat method as you to form 375 Ackley improved from 35 Whelen but I fire them straight up in the air.

[BT Sniper]

Thanks, I allways seemed to get a bit of left over cream of wheat in the barrel and figured if I shot it downward gravity might clean a bit more of it out. Probably doesn't make much difference but it is fun to form brass this way.

Good shooting

BT

[BT Sniper]

Played with the 40 cal die today and some 3/8" copper tubing. This is what I came up with !!!!

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070348.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070350.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070349.jpg


Can you imagine! Maybe some of you can! Only bullet I've shot this heavy is from my 338 Edge @ 300 grains. THis one pictured above is 340 grains. I'll have to experiment a bit more see if I can make a few of them to shoot.

BT

[BT Sniper]

Sould remind you guys of the orginal Fred Barnes Bullets. He made alot of bullets from copper tubing.

BT

[DDriller]

Heavies are fun! I like the copper bullet, looks like a factory made. What size copper tube am I going to need for the .458?

[BT Sniper]

Got another customer inquiring about making 45 cal from copper tubbing. That search has left us with only two options, size down 1/2" tubing or figure out how to stretch up 3/8" tubing. I don't know of any standard copper tubing inbetween 3/8" od and 1/2". I have some tools on the way soon for stretching tubing up in diameter, I'll see what I can do. What we need to figure out is a quick, accurate way to cut the rolls of tubing. Any ideas guys?

It does look good though doesn't it :)

BT

[a.squibload]

Played with the 40 cal die today and some 3/8" copper tubing. This is what I came up with !!!!

The 40 cal PISTOL die?
Just don't think that's gonna work in my PM40!
Is a 40/308 too long for an AR action?
You are trying to get me in trouble aren't you?

Edit: just thought about it, guess that nose isn't
possible in the pistol die. Sure looks nice though.

[BT Sniper]

Yep that is the standard CH 40 cal pistol die. Of course it has my improved internials in it. I bored the .250 nose punch to form the round nose. Still it is dificult to not get the SWC slight edge on the nose. That one pictured worked out pretty good actually. The bullet nose would normaly stop at the same point as the end of teh copper jacket with say a flat nose punch. The exposed lead tip is what my bored nose punch allowed me to make.

Just figured out that about 325 grains (reliably) is about max I can get out of the CH with the copper tube jacket. My dies have more room but not an ideal ogive for riffle bullets. Think a new 40 cal die might have to be on the horizon :)

I don't own an AR.....YET!...... what length will fit in the action? I don't know? but I do know the 40-308 with the pistol type bullets can have a shorter OAL then with riffle 30 cal bullets.

BT

[DDriller]

A 40-308 should work in an AR10. BT's magnum will be too long.

[bohica2xo]

A 308 case will not fit in an AR15. The AR10 series rifles are chambered in 308, so it would work there with a re-barrel.

Of course it will fit in a FAL magazine, so I might have to re-barrel this for fun:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-MGXdNHGOlRI/S7oaKibxwnI/AAAAAAAAAIE/yoRBowcYLts/s1000/RFBkitty.jpg

Nice work on the new bullet Brian.

B.

[BT Sniper]

Thanks B. Well now, that is an interesting looking gun. Bull pup of some sort? I bet it would work good to keep the punks from steeling the poted flowers of your pourch there in Vegas :) Or shooting coyotes in the dark! COOL!

BT

[BT Sniper]

Speaking of bullets...... I got a new bullet design in the works for the 40-308. Still from the 9mm and still at a weight of 190 grains but I plan to use a AL 6mm BB in the nose. Should look pretty good! I allready made a few with the airsoft plastic BBs but the shinny AL ones should look awesome!

BT

[bohica2xo]

Yeah, that is my nighttime lead dispenser. 18" barrel, and barely 26" overall.

With the Gen III sight you can call a 'yote in & the only light is the muzzle flash.

The barrels are not all that hard to change - a bit like the savage with a gas system. A new barrel may be in it's future.

B.

[b52fizzle]

What about 12mm copper tubing for 45 caliber less force to size and 10mm for .40 also it seems like it would be more successful to size down than to expand you would be goin off the ID not the OD and still have to possibly size back down to needed dimension. Could see it being useful if no other option were available.

And I like the roundnose on that kinda reminds me of the heavy medium bores like the 35 remington, in fact I always liked the idea of necking up the 35 to .400 or even the 7.62x39, a short heavy brush gun, but bullet options were scarce you may have opened the window!

[BT Sniper]

Interesting! Hard to find? Quick google search was pretty slim for 12MM or any metric copper tubing sold here in US. I did find some 10mm tubbing. Is that OD or ID? it was about $4.50 a foot! Think I'll stretch my 3/8 $0.80/foot tubbing for that price. Yet I'm still interested if anyone knows more please feel free to post.

By the way I just got some AWESOME looking 300 grain pills for the 400 BTS MAG! Thick copper jacket and a 4s Ogive!!!!!!!! They look SWEET! I'll post some pics soon


BT

[BT Sniper]

Getting closer, Another quick search revealed soem 10mm OD tubbing for $2.50 per foot. HUMMMMM ????? !!!!! INTERESTING!


EDIT! Well I'll be!!!! I found some of all sizes metric here in US! Still about $2/ft but interesting!!!!

BT

[b52fizzle]

Sorry wasn't paying attention in class, lol. Just knew it existed. Continue on I'm learning.

[BT Sniper]

No, don't leave :) thanks for posting, it lead me to some interesting new sizes of copper tubing I might need to play with some day. Found some in metric from 4MM up to 12MM so that is pretty cool. A bit expensive but cool for somthing like a big heavy boomer in my 40 cal or others.

BT

[BT Sniper]

Here is some bullets I got from another memeber here. 300 grains! Looks pretty good! Pictured with a standard 185 grain 40 cal made from 9mm. Notice how the 9mm is copper tone!

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070365.jpg

[b52fizzle]

I'm not goin anywheres, this seems too interesting to me, like I said before Ive been thinking about swaging for years read up a lot but mostly corbins stuff then put off for quite some time then refound this site, hope to to equip myself reasonably soon, just want to see what all my options are as far as bullet designs. Plus I've always got ideas bouncing sometimes good, that reminds me, could you use a mini chop saw with stop to cut your jackets, or a collet lathe and feed it through? Or is the tubing stiff enough? Lathe would be nice and accurate and polish and deburr.

[475AR]

BT, glad to see you got the bullets they look great in your cartridge. I can not wait to see how they perform.

[BT Sniper]

Thanks 475. Nice job with the bullets. First one I put on the scale weighed 300.0 grains. That was close enough for me :) I bet they will perform great. Probably put a big hole in what ever I shoot at!

You should get your package today or have it all ready.

I found 10mm copper tubing for about $2 a foot. I bet I could make us a tubing die for these!

Thanks again.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[b52fizzle]

Would fill the niche if there was a need for the heavier brush and bear busters especially in the case that your using should hold enough explosives for proper propulsion of copper clad lead projectile. Just some fun with words guys liking where this is goin though.

[b52fizzle]

I'm seeing a die that makes 150 to 500 gr with same setup pistol and rifle in one, close to having pistol and rifle in same chamber, same cake pan just add more batter.

[475AR]

Thanks, I am going to have to find a good way to cut tubing and process the ends so no burs and stright cut. Also I am looking into a tip die and also some way to make the tips uniform, but no one makes a meplat uniformer for something this big. I have found another source for drawn jackets jackets but they run $60 per 100.



Thanks 475. Nice job with the bullets. First one I put on the scale weighed 300.0 grains. That was close enough for me :) I bet they will perform great. Probably put a big hole in what ever I shoot at!

You should get your package today or have it all ready.

I found 10mm copper tubing for about $2 a foot. I bet I could make us a tubing die for these!

Thanks again.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[b52fizzle]

How accurate do you want them cut? What kinda rate of speed you looking for? How stiff and straight is tubing? Is collet lathe feasible, like I mentioned earlier? Could you rough out then finish in drill press with three way cutter with copper tubes in vice with holes drilled or v channels to hold but not crush tubing, can set specific depth do both sides while mounted in jig. Drop from jig reload and go again, repetitive, accurate, and depending on how many you do at a time and how quick you can setup may be able to do.production type numbers. Just some thoughts I already been kickin around to use when I get started, but using one side and trimming casings could probably use to trim for reloading too.

[BT Sniper]

My idea was to have a "favorite" calliber I can shoot in teh majority of the guns I own, both riffle and pistol. The 40 cal from 9mm brass as many of you know is just this bullet. I can make it at any weight I want. In the pistol I shoot it at 185 grains. I can shoot the same bullet in the 400 BTS mag and future 40-308. Or I can start adding more weight. I use a 158 grain .358 core with the 9mm brass and I get a nice 225 grain bullet that should shoot well in the 40-308. Or as you can see I can make heavier with different jackets up to about 325 grains in the CH die with my improved internials. The 400 BTS as far as being a heavy hitter really doesn't fit any nitch in the market that isn't allready filled with 375s or 416s but it is sure fun to shoot and cheap and easy for me to make bullets and that is what I made it for. So..... I can shoot my 400 BTS MAG for next to nothing or shot a 416 taylor or 416 rigby for what?????? $3-$4 a pop if I had to buy commercial loaded rounds? I think I'll stick with the 40 :)

BT

[b52fizzle]

BT,
The niche in reference was the 10mm tubing sorry I didn't specify, kinda like in another post I said something about necking up the 7.62x39 to .400, guess what go like ten more thousandths and you have a 401 self loading Winchester, and here I thought I was on to something

[b52fizzle]

Always wished the 45's were compatible this way, .452 and .458, for this same reason. Maybe neck down my 45-70 to. 400 there was a 40-70 at one time but think it was closer to .410?

Sent you an email BT.

[a.squibload]

Been in this same line of thinking for a while, want a folding Kel Tech 40S&W
mainly 'cause I can make the boolits! There was a group buy for AR15 barrels
& etc, got me thinking about 10mm or 10mm mag. There was mention of a
44-284 and others, but 40 cal should be fine and uses up less lead.
And looks like these swaged case boolits will fly pretty fast!

So then BT makes a necked-up 40cal, and I'm thinking my cartridge
doesn't have to be THAT powerful. Like a 308 case cut short with a
40 pistol boolit.
Would that be close to a straight-wall case?
Of course if it's too "wildcat" the barrel / chamber cut will be an expense.

So maybe I'm just dreaming but would be nice if something like this would
work out in a semi-auto using a 40 pistol boolit but a little hotter than a
pistol cartridge. And doesn't have to be an AR but they're apparently easy
to put together, and lots of parts available.

Oh yeah, also want a 40S&W Charter Bulldog revolver, in case I break a part
in the other pistol I'll still have something to shoot all these boolits that are
piling up. It's all your fault BT!:twisted:

[BT Sniper]

I take full responsability :) Matter of fact if it wasn't for all the orders I have to work on and fill I would have posted results from the 40-308 allready. The gun is all put together! I just need to go threw the steps of fire forming the brass then getting it loaded.

I think the 40-308 maybe the perfect bolt action and possibly semi action round for the 40cal/10mm.

The only reason I had the Mag put together was 1. my GS had an extra barrel and I had a lot of 300Wm brass 2. I wanted to see how fast I could push these bullets and how accurate they really are capible of and 3. the best reason...... and the one my GS told me..... because we could :)

But it is sure fun to clear the range with the blast from the big 400! I expect the 40-308 will be a lot of fun and certainly a bit more pleasent to shoot.

This project was my first attempt at swaping barrels on a receiver, I got to say that it is a lot of fun and easier then one would think when using a Savage action with their barrel nut. If I had my way everyone would shoot a 40 and everyone would use a barrel threaded for a Savage action.

Expect new developments soon with the 40-308

p.s. I heard the AR10 would be a good platform for the 40-308? I don't know what max length OAL the AR15 will run but with a 308 case we can load a 40 cal pistol bullet that will be only .250 longer then the case length to the tip of the bullet. Wether that would fit in the AR15????? I don't know yet. Quick google search and with the bullet seated just a bit shorter the OAL of the 40-308 could be 2.250 (actual #s the 308 win case = 2.015 The nose of the 40S&W is about .250 in length with my custom die or upgraded CH die, that would be 2.265!!!!!) ....... another quick search says the OAL of the 223rem is 2.260 HUMMMMM??????? anyone care to coment on wether a 40-308 would actually function in a AR-15? I know it was said "negitive" but.......... ???? the AOL should fit the mags! YES? no?

BT

[475AR]

How accurate do you want them cut? What kinda rate of speed you looking for? How stiff and straight is tubing? Is collet lathe feasible, like I mentioned earlier? Could you rough out then finish in drill press with three way cutter with copper tubes in vice with holes drilled or v channels to hold but not crush tubing, can set specific depth do both sides while mounted in jig. Drop from jig reload and go again, repetitive, accurate, and depending on how many you do at a time and how quick you can setup may be able to do.production type numbers. Just some thoughts I already been kickin around to use when I get started, but using one side and trimming casings could probably use to trim for reloading too.

For me just to be able to do clean stright cuts is good enough, I have form/trim dies to do the rest. My big issue is the burs inside from cutting and uneven cuts. If the cuts are not stright when I end round the jacket it can be off center and the jackets do not shoot well. As for speed I would say as fast as can be done with out getting burs, uneven cuts and dis-storting the tubing.

[475AR]

I take full responsability :) Matter of fact if it wasn't for all the orders I have to work on and fill I would have posted results from the 40-308 allready. The gun is all put together! I just need to go threw the steps of fire forming the brass then getting it loaded.

I think the 40-308 maybe the perfect bolt action and possibly semi action round for the 40cal/10mm.

The only reason I had the Mag put together was 1. my GS had an extra barrel and I had a lot of 300Wm brass 2. I wanted to see how fast I could push these bullets and how accurate they really are capible of and 3. the best reason...... and the one my GS told me..... because we could :)

But it is sure fun to clear the range with the blast from the big 400! I expect the 40-308 will be a lot of fun and certainly a bit more pleasent to shoot.

This project was my first attempt at swaping barrels on a receiver, I got to say that it is a lot of fun and easier then one would think when using a Savage action with their barrel nut. If I had my way everyone would shoot a 40 and everyone would use a barrel threaded for a Savage action.

Expect new developments soon with the 40-308

p.s. I heard the AR10 would be a good platform for the 40-308? I don't know what max length OAL the AR15 will run but with a 308 case we can load a 40 cal pistol bullet that will be only .250 longer then the case length to the tip of the bullet. Wether that would fit in the AR15????? I don't know yet. Quick google search and with the bullet seated just a bit shorter the OAL of the 40-308 could be 2.250 (actual #s the 308 win case = 2.015 The nose of the 40S&W is about .250 in length with my custom die or upgraded CH die, that would be 2.265!!!!!) ....... another quick search says the OAL of the 223rem is 2.260 HUMMMMM??????? anyone care to coment on wether a 40-308 would actually function in a AR-15? I know it was said "negitive" but.......... ???? the AOL should fit the mags! YES? no?

BT

BT, I work with AR-15/AR-10 ALOT, the issue with the 308 version is going to be bolt thrust in the AR-15, in order for it to work you would have to keep chamber psi to between 25,000 and 30,000 psi, otherwise you will shear the lugs on the bolt. There are some companies that are producing stronger bolts that would work and allow about another 10,000 psi. As for the COL, there are some AR-15 mags that allow for a COL of 2.3". I have a round that is based off the 45 Win Mag case necked down to .400 (think of it as a 40 Super Super Mag.) with pistol bullets we can push 180gr bullets @ about 1800fps out of a 10.5" bbl. I would think if you wanted a 40 round based off the 308 case look @ the BR case (1.5" 308) this would put it in an AR-15 with no issues as long as you do not run it @ 50,000psi. Do you have Quickload/Quickdesign software? I use both to play and test rounds before I spend $$$ for a reamer.
I think the fill size 40-308 BTS would be a GREAT round in an AR-10 and would only need a barrel made for it, all parts would work with out issue and you could run it @ full psi.:mrgreen:

[a.squibload]

...bolt thrust in the AR-15, in order for it to work you would have to keep chamber psi to between 25,000 and 30,000 psi,...
... 45 Win Mag case necked down to .400 (think of it as a 40 Super Super Mag.) with pistol bullets we can push 180gr bullets @ about 1800fps out of a 10.5" bbl...

Good stuff! Couple questions:

Are AR10 parts and AR15 parts pretty close on prices? I assumed AR10 stuff
would be more expensive.

How does your 40 supersuper mag at AR15 pressures compare to 10mm mag?
If they are pretty close it might be easier for me (my experience level) to just
work with the pistol cartridge (straight wall).
I'll look up 10mm mag later after work, not familiar with it.



The Savage bolt action setup sounds tempting, might save on gunsmithing!
Maybe I'll spot a used one.

[BT Sniper]

Found out a bit more on the AR10 vs. AR15 with the 40-308 potential. It was told to me that the AR10 is the clear choice and the AR15 would not be a good choice for a round like the 40-308 (necked up 308win to .400)

I dont' intend to chamber a AR10 for this round anytime soon. I am pretty happy with using Savage actions. Very easy to do the work yourself when swaping barrels.

BT

[b52fizzle]

Whats a good price found a low round count Stevens 200 for 275 shipped if he still has it?

[475AR]

PM me and I will forward you the info. (I do not want to hijack BT's thread.)


Good stuff! Couple questions:

Are AR10 parts and AR15 parts pretty close on prices? I assumed AR10 stuff
would be more expensive.

How does your 40 supersuper mag at AR15 pressures compare to 10mm mag?
If they are pretty close it might be easier for me (my experience level) to just
work with the pistol cartridge (straight wall).
I'll look up 10mm mag later after work, not familiar with it.



The Savage bolt action setup sounds tempting, might save on gunsmithing!
Maybe I'll spot a used one.

[DDriller]

BT I shoot a 6mmBRX in an AR15. Uses a .308 Bolt face and special barrel extension. Harrison at
http://www.AR15Performance.com/ makes them. Using some 6.8 SPC mags you can load to 2.30 inches.

[MostlyOnThePaper]

Yeah, that is my nighttime lead dispenser. 18" barrel, and barely 26" overall.

With the Gen III sight you can call a 'yote in & the only light is the muzzle flash.

The barrels are not all that hard to change - a bit like the savage with a gas system. A new barrel may be in it's future.

B.

Think you could make this stuff work? http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/7383/default.html

That Savage is sweet Brian. I love how easy they are to work on.

[bohica2xo]

Think you could make this stuff work? http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/7383/default.html

That Savage is sweet Brian. I love how easy they are to work on.

Thanks, but I would have to fuss with that load a lot - an adjustable gas 308 will shoot all kinds of stupid stuff. It will cycle Remington accelerators.

I need to get busy and make a vortex flash hider for it.

B.

[MostlyOnThePaper]

Thanks, but I would have to fuss with that load a lot - an adjustable gas 308 will shoot all kinds of stupid stuff. It will cycle Remington accelerators.

I need to get busy and make a vortex flas
h hider for it.

B.

Yeah, it sounds like some very fussy stuff, but having nearly no flash is an interesting thought, I only found out about the stuff recently. I want to get some night vision capability first tho. Your setup looks pretty cool.

[BT Sniper]

CHECK IT OUT!

The 400 BTS Mag takes down a tree!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsHcu281oBs&feature=plcp


Good shooting and Swage On!

BT

p.s.


:kidding:

[Rusty Goose]

Wow, very impressive work. I love watching the development going on. I'm just a lurker for now, I'm just doing my research prior to getting into swaging my own. BT- I have some 300 wm to donate if you run low, call it the price of admission to a wonderful show!

[Jupiter7]

Bump for interest. I know your busy Bryan. Just came up on 300blktalk.com about .400Blackout based on .308 case. I linked this thread. Fwiw, I think this would be a great solution to one man one caliber(kinda) and multiple platforms. I see the 40.08 being a good alternative to the .358W as a brush popper with heavy bullets and with light(160grs) bullets a very capable mid range rifle. Anyways, hope you can get back to the project soon.

[BT Sniper]

Found pics to go with this thread.......

https://i.imgur.com/5qBTmPql.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/P9O1eAsl.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/7i3L1a2l.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/lXXXcesl.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/0qogZXWl.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/xDW1EGNl.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/j9uPUB5l.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/duoOIIxl.jpg

[BT Sniper]

https://i.imgur.com/ZkZOFerl.png