Retempering magazine springs

[Bren R.]

I've got a half dozen or so Savage 99C external box magazines with weak follower springs - I've got a couple of new springs on order right now but I got to thinking...

Would a re-temper and anneal of the springs bring them back to life?

I've wound my own coil springs and done stress relieving, tempering, and annealing - just not sure if this will help these weak springs.

These are leaf springs (W springs) - so, do I temper them open, closed, somewhere between?

Bren R.

[Bren R.]

Open - the answer is definitely open.

Bren R.

[MtGun44]

Anneal destroys heat treat and makes the spring soft, not a spring.

To re-heat treat, heat to red heat and quench, then you must guess what temper
temperature to use, so without alloy info and accurate heat treat chamber it is like
throwing darts, might hit the middle might miss all together. Without tempering the
spring is hard but will crack and fail. Too much tempering (too high a temp) and you
soften the spring too much.

Either find a SKILLED heat treater or risk ruining (90% probable) but you may luck out,
or leave them alone.

Bill

[Bren R.]

Given that I had so many on hand for trial and error testing and that the replacement springs are on their way, I decided to try a few different ways.

Heating the spring closed was a complete failure.

Heating the spring to a bright glowing red (as viewed in a dark shop) was too hot.

Heating the spring to a very, very dull barely perceptible dark red seemed to be the ticket, though in quenching, the spring closed up slightly.

Heating the spring to the same dull red in a jig to hold it slightly open including through the quench seems to be about perfect.

Of course I skipped the anneal... realized what I'd said after I posted.

Bren R.

[waksupi]

They need heated to cherry red, quenched, then stuck to a magnet. Heat the spring over a container of oil. When it reaches critical heat, it will drop off of the magnet into the quench.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Well.... If you just want to have some fun and learn ,this is a viable exercise. I have heat treated a few things over the years, having Blacksmithing as a hobby. As was mentioned be fore critical temp can be found with a magnet as the steel will loss magnatism at that temp. You have to bring the steel to critical temp to reharden or anneal,normalize, ect. I would first normalize as any old spring is probably work hardened to a degree. That entails bringing the steel to critical temp probably 1550 F and then let it air cool to room temp. Then requench/harden which it is brought to critical temp again and quenched in a light oil. I like tranny fluid! Then you can pop it in the oven or sand and clean to bright and use your temper colors to run about 500 F. This should be a blue color. Then see what you think!If you want to get a group of sane,grown men that happen to be knifemakers in an uproar, pick a steel and then comment on the best way to heat treat it!!! It won't be pretty!

[Bren R.]

More than anything, it was something I'd never tried. I'm not going to hang a shingle tomorrow offering the services professionally.

I'll stick to stock work, but it was an educational foray into metallurgy. Just like the day dad took me aside as a kid and explained why you have to use cutting fluid... and the day he replaced most of his bits... and taps...

Bren R.

[Bren R.]

Just as a final note:

The magazine springs for the Savage Model 10 (short action) fit the Savage 99C detachable box magazines perfectly (and are much easier to find).

Bren R.

[MBTcustom]

I have a lot of experience with this sort of thing having made handforged knives and tools for 6 years and having run the heat treat dept. at my last job for 3 years.
It is true that if you were starting with fresh steel, and you knew what it was made of, you could just heat it to the austenitic temperature, quench in warm oil, then draw back at about 600 degrees for 2 hours.
The problem is that you dont have any idea what material is made of so you will be fishing in the dark. Also, you have to have a way to heat the entire spring evenly and hold it at a certain temperature for at least 15 minutes after it has come up to temp. Once you have that done, you need a way to hold the springs at 600 degrees for 2 hours.
One other point I would like to make, is that I have had many experiences where a part was heat treated wrong and we tried to save it by re-heat treating. Not once in 10 years has this worked out well for me. It might be close, but it wont be right, so I wouldn't think you would be able to get those back as good as new.
All that being said, I realize that you dont need it perfect, you just need it good enough to get the job done for a while to save money. In that spirit, I say "damn them torpedoes! full speed ahead!" It wouldn't hurt to try it.
If you draw by eye, heat the spring until it turns a straw color, then brown then deep purple. I would stop there, but if you start bending on it, and it breaks after a few rough twists, heat it until you get to a deep blue next time.

[Bren R.]

It worked "okay"... the new springs came in the mail yesterday so I replaced them all with new springs. I can't imagine the "retemper" would hold up - far too many variables and a very unscientific setup - so new springs all around it is!

Bren R.

[MBTcustom]

Hey, thats some of the cheapest insurance money can buy in my book!