Savage in .358 Win. Now I need help :o). With Pic

[JesterGrin_1]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/Stevens3583.jpg

I now have my Savage in .358 Winchester in my hands and would like if possible to find a good Cast BOOLIT hunting load? But if you select a powder I would like to start at the bottom of the acceptable powder charge and work up for best accuracy if possible. :)

I have two Molds for it at this time. One is the BRP-360-225 GC and the 358009 GC.

What powder would be best to use ? IMR-3031/H-322/TAC/2400

A Big Thanks to all of the Enablers on this good forum.

[rexherring]

Isn't camo supposed to be greens, tans, and browns?:bigsmyl2:

Just kidding, nice looking rifle.

[JesterGrin_1]

Isn't camo supposed to be greens, tans, and browns?:bigsmyl2:

Just kidding, nice looking rifle.

I have found that it does not matter to Color Blind Game lol. Thank You :)

[runfiverun]

cliff those scope rings look set up for long range....
it might just be the pic or my eyes.
i use 48.5 grs of rl-19 and the saeco #248 250gr boolit as my load in the .358.
so i'm no help.
but i'd bet the 3031 or 322 and a filler will find you something in the 2k range that will work nicely.

[JesterGrin_1]

cliff those scope rings look set up for long range....
it might just be the pic or my eyes.
i use 48.5 grs of rl-19 and the saeco #248 250gr boolit as my load in the .358.
so i'm no help.
but i'd bet the 3031 or 322 and a filler will find you something in the 2k range that will work nicely.

I would like to avoid using any type of fillers.

As for the rings not sure what you mean by long range? But they are just standard non adjustable rings. The Scope I have on it now is a Simmons Quick Adjust focus 4x12x40. :)

[geargnasher]

What about H335? Shouldn't need a filler with that one.

Gear

[JesterGrin_1]

I would like to keep to these powders. IMR-3031/H-322/TAC/2400 as I really do not wish to go out and purchase more powder. I forgot I also have IMR-4350.

[Ben]

Oh, so you say you have some 2400, OK, ..................Here is a photo of 14.8 grs. of 2400 and the 358009 HP shot out of my Weatherby 358 Win. at 50 yards ( 5 shots )

Does that pick up your interest ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/DSCI0005-1.jpg

[W.R.Buchanan]

Are animals color blind? If so proceed with Ben's boolit and load. If not then order olive drab and brown paint. :-)

That is definately one of Stocky's laminated thumbhole gunstocks! As covered in the current issue of Rifle Magazine"

Nice looking gun! and the beauty of the Savage barrel system is you can just screw whatever .308 based barrel you want on there and shoot. With a set of .308 headspace gages and a castle nut wrench, it would take <10 minutes to change them back and forth.

You done good!

Randy

[runfiverun]

it just looked like the rear ring was higher to me..

try 33 grs of 3031
and 43 grs of I 4350
those should be around 1800 fps with a 200 gr boolit.
and 38 grs of 322 should be a titch faster.
you'll have to work them up and down a tad.
that's as low as i would go with the 4350.
use lr primers.
i'd still be inclined to use the dacron with the 322 and 3031. [that's just me though]

[2Tite]

I'm disappointed......I thought I was going to see a '99.

[JesterGrin_1]

Are animals color blind? If so proceed with Ben's boolit and load. If not then order olive drab and brown paint. :-)

That is definately one of Stocky's laminated thumbhole gunstocks! As covered in the current issue of Rifle Magazine"

You done good!

Randy

Nope it is a limited run from BOYD'S Gun Stocks. Called Harvest.

And Thank You. I had a thread on the build here. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=115528

[JesterGrin_1]

Oh, so you say you have some 2400, OK, ..................Here is a photo of 14.8 grs. of 2400 and the 358009 HP shot out of my Weatherby 358 Win. at 50 yards ( 5 shots )

Does that pick up your interest ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/DSCI0005-1.jpg

Yeppers it will Pick my interest as well as Peak it. :bigsmyl2:

[Larry Gibson]

I'd definately go with RL19, AA4350 or H4931SC with those bullets for a hunting load.

Larry Gibson

[JesterGrin_1]

I'd definately go with RL19, AA4350 or H4931SC with those bullets for a hunting load.

Larry Gibson

Why would you pick RL-19? I do have a good supply of RL-15 :).

[waksupi]

Yeppers it will Pick my interest as well as Peak it. :bigsmyl2:

Or does it pique it?

[JesterGrin_1]

Or does it pique it?

Ok :bigsmyl2: It does all three in the same lol. Pick,Peak and Pique my Interest.

I needed a :kidding:lol.

[wiljen]

Holy Pronouns Batman, do I detect a grammar lesson by Ric? Is it possible he spelled it right? What will the world come to next?

Honestly if someone corrected every typo and grammatical error on here few of us would be allowed to post anymore.

[JesterGrin_1]

Naaaaaaa We have been on the internet soo long we can read anything lol. :)

[JesterGrin_1]

I'm disappointed......I thought I was going to see a '99.

Really well Gosh. Please by all Means Start your own thread about your 99 chambered in .358 Winchester build. I am sure many others such as yourself would be interested in such a build.



As for myself I am attempting to accumulate some knowledge on the loading practices as well as materials used in the assembly of accurate .358 Winchester loads with the Powder and Bullet molds I have on hand. So I can also post my results for others to maybe gleam some information from.

[shooter93]

I've been using 3031, VV 135 and 140 with a 250 grain bullet in a 35 Krag.

[geargnasher]

Holy Pronouns Batman, do I detect a grammar lesson by Ric? Is it possible he spelled it right? What will the world come to next?

Honestly if someone corrected every typo and grammatical error on here few of us would be allowed to post anymore.

Nah, he leaned that from ME, didntcha, Ric? :kidding:

In English, the term would be "Prick" your interest, as in point or pinprick. This coming from a guy who, on this forum, misspelled "grammar" once! Spelling's not really the issue here, it's meaning, because "peak" and "pique", though pronounced the same in their respective languages, are not synonyms. I hope I spelled synonym right, doesn't look right, anybody?

Gear

[JDL]

Bright rifle!:-) My BLR does well with the RCBS 35-200FN or a 225 grain Mountain Mold when pushed by 40.5 gr. H-4895 or surplus 4895. Velocity is 2060 with Hodgdon and 100 fps less with the surplus. Lake City cases are nearly full so I don't use a filler. My M.70 won't have nothing to do with slower powders so I feed it 2400, 4227, or 4759.
From the powders you mention, I'd try either 3031 starting at 33 grains working up or 2400 (my M.70 likes 23 grains).

[runfiverun]

you get a good loading density with rl-19.
you'd have to go down to about 44-45 to be in the 2k velocity range though.
and rl-19 has to be weighed i cannot get it to drop a consistent weight in a dump.
i have tried 5-6 different ones and nothing comes close enough to consistent.

[JesterGrin_1]

Run for reloading I am kinda new at Rifle cartridges. Thus I have to say I weigh and trickle every charge that goes into a rifle case. :). I just can not help it lol.

[Certaindeaf]

I used to use black powder out of a model 600 .243 with jacketed for the fun of it. It was and is a one holer. You can do it!

[runfiverun]

i bought a lyman dpms a number of years ago.
it was one of the best investments i ever made.
i can dump and set and push the button and seat the boolit from the last one while it does the work.
it's always within a tenth of a grain and quick.

[softpoint]

I have 2 358 winchesters. I have three molds, the 200 grain RCBS, the 245 gr. Saeco and an original 358009. All three boolits shoot well in both my rifles. my preference is starting to lean to the Saeco boolit. It is heavy enough to hunt anything with, the mold is a joy to cast with.
3031 will be good powder to work with, several of my loads have used that. I have also used BLC2 and 4320 wilth good success in this caliber.
Both my rifles have stainless Shilen barrels, and both are on Rem 700 actions. One is a M600 action and the other is a 700. The Shilen barrels have a 14 inch twist which handles the long 358009 boolit just fine. The only problems with this boolit that I am aware of were with 16 inch twists.
5744 is another powder I have used, with the RCBS boolit for milder loads that still should be plenty for the local deer and hog. :Fire:

[softpoint]

42827
My pair of .358's

[JesterGrin_1]

Well Gang I am heading to the Range Finally lol. I will post all of the information on my return either good or bad lol.

[W.R.Buchanan]

+1 on 5744. very versitile powder. I use it in .308-.30-06, .45-70. should work in .358 too.

The good thing about 5744 is that it is not position sensitive at all, so you don't need fillers. It also works well for light loads or heavier loads.

Randy

[JesterGrin_1]

With Deep Regret I have to say that I fired 50 rounds and it went from Bad to Where did they go lol. So it was not a good day. But at least I got to make some NOISE lol.

The Basic Cartridge was the BRP 360-220 GC with BAC and New 358 Winchester Brass with WOLF LRP.

The Powder was IMR-3031 starting at Book Low of 41.0 Gr up to 45.0 Gr in .5 jumps 5 rounds each. I will now work down on the powder charge as the 41.0 Gr charge was the best of the Worst lol.

So my next go around I will start with 32.0 Gr up to 40.5 Gr of IMR-3031 in the same .5 jumps.

[W.R.Buchanan]

You know I just had a thought,,,, This is a new gun, maybe you should break the barrel in with J bullets first then try your cast ones. I know my RGS77 didn't like Cast at first, but now that it has had 500 FMJ's thru it it shoots cast just fine.

Randy

[JesterGrin_1]

It has had some J bullets through it. And when I cleaned the barrel it seems very smooth.

[JesterGrin_1]

Well I ran out of Midnight Oil lol.

I loaded 50 more test rounds starting with 32.0 Gr of IMR-3031 to 36.0Gr in .5 increments.

And I must admit after tonight I am seriously thinking about some kind of electronic scale system lol. I like my RCBS 10-10 but this trickle thing is very time consuming lol.

Then I cleaned the bore just for Grins as I wanted to see if I had lead in there. Guess what No Lead Whewwwwwwwww. So the bullet fit was working except I was just pushing them too fast.

The sad thing is I should have just run a dry patch through it as to not remove the bullet lube that was in the Bore but then again I would have not known if there was lead in there or not that might have contributed to the poor accuracy. These darn double edged swards lol.

That is why I loaded 10 rounds of the first charge so I could get some foulers before working for group. That is if there is a Group at all lol. :)

[Artful]

You might try a slower powder - 3031 worked fine in 308 for me but in 358 - 4895 and 4064 showed more accuracy.

[rockrat]

I would go with the BRP 225 boolit and H-322. wcWW's and start around 35gr and work up. No fillers needed

[JesterGrin_1]

Well I did attempt to go back to the Range today. But after the 20 Mi drive and just setting up on my Table they informed everyone they were going to close lol. Due to the fact of the expected River Rise from the rain of which would cover the roads and block people in.

It did bother me some but to be honest we need Rain Badly.

[Plinkster]

It's not a great picture but I like to think that is shows great minds thinking alike. This is my savage model 25 in .223 with my custom bolt handle, the one on yours just jumped out at me. Did you make that yourself? I know you said you didn't want to buy more powders but I thought I'd throw out that I've had good results with that BRP boolit and Benchmark in my .35 Whelen, best was 45grs even if iirc but may need a little adjustment for your case.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/17/e6e2ytu9.jpg

[MBTcustom]

I posted this on another 358 thread last night. Forgive me for double posting, but I couldn't resist!
Here is a Japanese Arisaka that I got last year for $125. I bought an A&B blank and reamed it for 358 winchester. A bunch of cussing, and careful use of files, and I got it to feed pretty well.
I made the scope rail from billet. It is attached to the reciever via two 8-40 scope screws, but I planned on dove tailing the forward support at a later date, so I just glued it in place to get me into the woods (I bought the rifle two weeks before hunting season just because I wanted the challenge of building and hunting in a short period of time.)
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/Photo12280832.jpg
The trigger was atrociouse at nearly 14 pounds, but the rifle still shot pretty well, especially with the RCBS 35-200-FN
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/Photo12291342.jpg
Sick aint it? Yeah that is a 20 shot group at 50 yards with a 15 pound trigger.

I cut down a deer with it too, and that cemented this cartridge in my mind forever as the ultimate sub-45 caliber cartridge.
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/Photo12281234.jpg
Just look at that exit wound!

A month ago, I profiled the barrel to a lighter contour and pulled another pound or so off the weight.

This weekend, I got finished up with a few projects for customers, and had a little extra time, so I did a trigger job on it and cut the trigger pull down to a cool 5.5Lb.
While I was at it, I turned the bolt knob down, and rewelded the safety knob (it had cracked around the center post.) and got it tuned up much better for actual use.
I also doved the rail support into the barrel.
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/IMG_3555.jpg
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/IMG_3556.jpg
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/IMG_3557.jpg
I know its just a junky war rifle, but I am totally enamoured with this piece. I think its the balsa wood stock that makes it so light. Its short enough to be a youth rifle, (hence the mid-mounted pistol scope) but it is so easy to carry through the woods.
Its also fun as heck to smith on because I'm not going to scream and throw a file through the wall if I slip or something. I can just relax and monster garrage it to my hearts content. The fact that it shoots really well is a nice bonus. I think I can throw 20 shots through a Copenhagen can sized group at 100 yards with this setup, it might be even better with the new trigger.

I have a sweet Sako AV action set back that I am going to build like brick outhouse, but honestly, I don't know if it will get as much use as this custom beater.

[Plinkster]

I've heard it said that life is too short to shoot ugly guns, but by golly when they shoot that well they start to look alot better don't they!?

[MBTcustom]

I've heard it said that life is too short to shoot ugly guns, but by golly when they shoot that well they start to look alot better don't they!?

Its an underdog for sure. I'm not near done with it yet either. Who knows what it'll look like in another three years.
The way I see it is that if a gun shoots, then I have something to work with. No amount of polishing and bluing will make it shoot any better, but if it shoots to begin with, then I don't mind spending the time.

[JesterGrin_1]

Ok 3 Five Shot Test Groups at 50 yards. I think I might be on to something lol. :) Thank You Ben and Goodsteel and one and all. :) Today was a HAPPY DAY With a HAPPY DANCE lol. Yes I did scare the straights lol.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/Savage358Win.jpg

[JesterGrin_1]

This is the BRP-360-220 FP/GC of which looks very close to the RCBS 358-200 FP/GC with just a bit more weight.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/360-220.jpg

[Ben]

JesterGrin_1 ,

Now you're onto something ! !

Looks to me like that 33.5 gr. load
and I would get along just fine ! !

Good Shooting,
Keep Dancing,

Ben

[JesterGrin_1]

Again Thank You Ben. Now I need to move it back to 100 yards. And hope it only Doubles in size which would be what 1/2 in groups lol. :).

To say I was EXCITED Would be an Understatement lol.

Now I hope someone has Quick Load so I can find out if it will work on a rabbit lol. Just Joshing about the Rabbit lol.;)

I will part with a Secret though. When I fired the first second shot I had to say WOW it is almost in the same hole. And was scared to fire the next three and kill the Group lol. But 5 rounds almost in the same hole was simply AMAZING. :)

[MBTcustom]

Now your cooking with gas!
Sometimes the smallest change makes all the difference.
Move that target back and see what she does.

[waksupi]

We've been warning you, the .358 Win will shoot.

[Ben]

JesterGrin_1 :

You've listened to my advice once, now try it a 2nd time.

Go and buy yourself a 1 lb. can of IMR - 4895. That powder is capable of good things also in the 358 Win.

Do the same " ladder test " like you did today with similar charges using the IMR - 4895.

Could be more dancing to be done in the coming days ..........

The 358 Winchester is a real winner on paper & on game animals ! !

Ben

[JesterGrin_1]

Ok I will Venture to ask why is 4895 better than 3031?

Plus I have had an 8 pound Jug of 3031 under my bench for a couple of years and finally found a good use for it lol.

But if 4895 will give better speeds with the same accuracy then it might be worth a try. Just at this point it seems as though the 3031 load would be hard to beat?

[MBTcustom]

4895 will give it a slightly smoother push. Its just a touch slower than 3031, and will fill the case a little fuller. It's worth a try if you are dissatisfied with your 100 yard groups and cant pull them in. I have been where you are with the 3031, but remember that the rifle doesn't care how much powder you have of one brand or another. It likes what it likes.
Sounds like you are awful darn close with 3031 though, and while Ben's advice should never be taken lightly, I think you should take a few more shots with the 3031.
Remember to only change one thing at a time!!!! Remind yourself, and make sure that you are not inadvertently muddying the waters with two changes at once.
In other words, you have the cat by the tail; its a lot easier to let go than it is to catch it again.

[JesterGrin_1]

Well this is my Thinking at the moment lol. I will probably load up another 20 to 30 rounds of the 33.5Gr load and check how it does at 100 yards. As I am going to head down to the Lease this Thursday and hope I have enough left just in case I run across a Hog. That is if they group at 100 yards :)

Plus those 30 Bullets are the last ones of the Group I cast for it. I wish I could say oh I will just run outside and cast another 100 lol. But I am not as good of a caster as it seems many here are lol. For me to get 100 Good ones I usually have to cast about 400 or so of them. Then visually inspect them and of the ones that pass that then I weigh each one and group them by weight. And my weight variance for the group is less then .5 Gr. So a bunch go back into the pot lol. Then I can gas check them and lube them.

Whewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Jacketed bullets would be far cheaper as far as time. And easier to get to group at higher speeds BUT there is something to be said for Taking Game with your own BOOLITS and loads that is hard to describe.

[Ben]

JesterGrin_1

Why is 4895 better than 3031?

I can't tell you that it is better, however I've shot some pretty impressive groups with IMR - 4895 in the 358 Win.

I think it is worth your time and $ to investigate IMR 4895.

If your IMR 3031 load continues to shoot tight at 100 yards, you may not want to give it up, if it doesn't shoot well, IMR 4895 would be my next investment.

In theory, the same charge of IMR 4895 vs IMR 3031 should give you slightly less pressure and a bit more gentle push on the bullet.

Goodsteel speaks the truth on loading for the .358 Win.

Ben

[W.R.Buchanan]

You guys are killing me!

Now I have to find a .358?

Have wanted a BLR for some time, maybe that would fill the bill.

Randy

[MBTcustom]

Randy, you dont have to find a 358 Winchester. If you cast and shoot long enough, it will find you.
It truly is the unsung hero of the cast boolit cartridges. Its perfect. Matter of fact, any cartridge that shoots 2600FPS on the high end (with light for cartridge boolits) would be a superb cast boolit cartridge.
Unfortunately, very few fit that description. They are either too fast, or too slow, so you are always working in the fringe of the cartridges capabilities and either the boolit or the cartridge's performance ends up suffering for it.

Boolit weight,
Boolit speed,
Case capacity,
OAL,
Brass availability,
Suitable rifle actions,
Powder selection,
With the 358 Winchester, you have margin in every direction.

[JesterGrin_1]

As you might be able to tell I am pretty New to the .358 Winchester but I have to say I have done weeks of reading and searching before I had the .358 Winchester Built.

As said the cartridge itself is darn hard to Ignore. When one can use pistol bullets if should one wish to do so. And Cast Boolits both of Pistol and Rifle designs. Now if that was not enough lol. You can load a large variation of bullet weights in Rifle designs from 200Gr up to 300Gr for whatever game you wish to use it for.

And if you really feel the need to reach out there say to 300 yards then you can pick a jacketed round from 180Gr up to the 300 Gr for shorter distances but for more dangerous Animals that need penetration.

And by the way the .358 Winchester when loaded with jacketed rounds can stay right up there with the 30-06.

So lets Re Cap lol. The .358 Winchester can use less powder and push a heaver bullet up into and beyond the 30-06 with a very large number of bullet designs and weights. What is hard not to like. I forgot to add this all this can be done in a Short Action and a Shorter barrel which depending on the rifle can make it lighter and more handy. :)

Here is just tid bit of reading. :) http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/358_wcf.htm

[MBTcustom]

I also have shot capsules for mine. Might need to blast a snake in the woods, so I keep a couple of those handy.
Also, the 358Winchester can sling a lot more lead than 300 grains.

[mpmarty]

You guys are killing me!

Now I have to find a .358?

Have wanted a BLR for some time, maybe that would fill the bill.

Randy

Having a BLR in 358 I agree it is a very nice rifle but the trigger is awful.

[35Whelen]

I know this is an old thread...but here is the .358 Win using an Accurate 360-240 and IMR 4895......easy to shoot and accurate. 1800 fps
214697

[Nrut]

100m ?
36-240A = PB in Toms catalog..
Is yours a PB or did you have him cut for a gc ?
Would be good to know the alloy and if it was WD or AC..


Good shooting by the way..

[35Whelen]

Nrut....sorry, didn't see your response until today.
Range on that group was 50 yds...I hope it will do well at 100m
The bullet on Toms catalog I think is now the 36-204AG....G for gas checked. It was just what I had initially , but he has changed the designations I think
The alloy was Magnum shot at 5% antimony and 3% tin....some said that would be too hard and brittle,,,,,,but I could pound those reject bullets on an anvil with a 5lb hammer and flatten them skinnier than a dime without fracturing them. Not on game I know, but I was pretty impressed for just using what I had left over and only wanting to see if the gun would shoot the bullet configuration.

Oh....and simply air cooled.

[Nrut]

Thanks 35Whelen..
Haven't casted or shot cast in the last 2 years, but seeing targets like yours gets me excited..
Would be interested in how your 100m groups turn out when you get around to shooting them..

Thanks again..