Wrax
03-25-2012, 03:38 AM
Hi there, I'm new to the forum and this is my first post here. I'm 25 years old, reloading for 1-2 years, I'm also found in BC Canada and have two Swiss Vetterli's.
I'm already set up and have been reloading for my 1871 Vetterli, it has a groove of .436 and lands of .415. I use a 310 grain, gas checked, hand cast wheel weight, water quenched bullet that measures .430. I lube them in a tin baking pan with a melted mix of beezwax, parrafin, and vasoline at pretty much 1:1:1, NO leading and I've put 800 or more rounds through it. My dies would only work with the .430. Started at 9 gr unique, worked up to 11 so far. 348 brass cut to about 1.65 give or take a few hundredths (shortest ones are 1.45, but I stopped using anything under 1.6) and the overall cartridge length is a 2.2 inches.
The gun was shortened at some point in its past and was also missing its front sight and the rear was broken, so I declared it worthless and it then became a project of no discrimination due to "original value". so I invested my efforts to bring value of function and beauty (don't kill me guys) back to it. I fabricated a tall aluminum front sight that slides in a dovetail style groove that was poorly cut in by a previous owner, got the rear flip up tab welded back together and fit in for function, removed the dried up rusty beaten up appeareance, rebluing the barrel and refinishing the dented and scratched up stock. It's absolutely a beautiful rifle, now every time I pull it out of my locker I get this weird tight feeling in my chest....Pride??
I've managed 1, 50 yard shot right in the bullseye but 25 yards is better. At 75 yards though, I can't even hit the paper. Not too sure whats going on there, I have some theories. I do know a tree branch about 400 yards off broke off once way behind the target and off to the side about 10 yards or so, so I don't think it went to shrapnel mid flight. Perhaps the brass is grabbing...? bullet may be too small...? fun to shoot, and a constant mental challenge to theorize and diagnose, I love it.
So my second Vetterli which I purchased a few weeks ago at a gun show for $200 in Chilliwack was kind of a thrill, I couldn't resist, I figured I'm already set up for it why not? I believe its the 1869 model, and is missing the breech cover and tab from both sides since it had little holes and a slot cut in the sides that appear to be pivot points, and I had to fabricate the little steel bolt stopper that slips in above and behind the bolt. No, this time I did not affect its appearance since it is still full length and is in relatively nice condition, (aside from the bolt modification because they wouldn't swap).
Well I slugged it at home, and the groove measures .425 and lands of .410. It's considerably tighter, and I cant chamber a round. I tried both fired and unfired empty brass, and that seems to fit fine, but with a bullet in the brass I can't close the bolt. Its close, but another 3/16 of an inch to go. Also its tough to pull the bullet back out again. It feels like the bullet is sticking, and I need to either size it down, or cast a new bullet. I guess I could just shorten the round and force it out the barrel, but I'm far from an expert on things like that and it seems like not such a great idea (pressures and leading). Just a reasonably cautious sensible lunatic with a few common cents.
My questions would be , if I simply get a new bullet cast, will my dies likely still work to seat and crimp? or will I have to get custom ones cut from lee? And what would be the best diameter to cast, or size down to if need be? My thought process brings me to about .421 so there's no pressure issues, and because of obturation most of that lead would fill the groove anyways.
RCBS suggested a .427 sizer die, Lee mentioned going .425, but also said that you need some room for the lead to obturate and fill the grooves. I already shoot about .006 undersize in one Vetterli and it seems fine, so by my reasoning .421 should work fine.
Either way I've been uncertain as to which way to go, and have looked around a bit at the options for dies, and molds. I have not settled on a bullet yet, I would prefer one that closely resembles the one I shoot like the 421-390-GC, maybe one with a flatter nose.
I know this is just another Vetterli thread amongst the many which were invaluable for everything so far, but many of my questions remain unanswered and I haven't found alot of info on the Vetterlis with a bore this tight, I know there was two chamber sizes, but most people online describe they're 1869's and loose bore, up to .438 I've read. Also, sorry for the book, first post and all, I thought history was important and you would need all the facts. I'll try and get some pics of my setup soon. Any advice is immensely appreciated and you are awesome!
I'm already set up and have been reloading for my 1871 Vetterli, it has a groove of .436 and lands of .415. I use a 310 grain, gas checked, hand cast wheel weight, water quenched bullet that measures .430. I lube them in a tin baking pan with a melted mix of beezwax, parrafin, and vasoline at pretty much 1:1:1, NO leading and I've put 800 or more rounds through it. My dies would only work with the .430. Started at 9 gr unique, worked up to 11 so far. 348 brass cut to about 1.65 give or take a few hundredths (shortest ones are 1.45, but I stopped using anything under 1.6) and the overall cartridge length is a 2.2 inches.
The gun was shortened at some point in its past and was also missing its front sight and the rear was broken, so I declared it worthless and it then became a project of no discrimination due to "original value". so I invested my efforts to bring value of function and beauty (don't kill me guys) back to it. I fabricated a tall aluminum front sight that slides in a dovetail style groove that was poorly cut in by a previous owner, got the rear flip up tab welded back together and fit in for function, removed the dried up rusty beaten up appeareance, rebluing the barrel and refinishing the dented and scratched up stock. It's absolutely a beautiful rifle, now every time I pull it out of my locker I get this weird tight feeling in my chest....Pride??
I've managed 1, 50 yard shot right in the bullseye but 25 yards is better. At 75 yards though, I can't even hit the paper. Not too sure whats going on there, I have some theories. I do know a tree branch about 400 yards off broke off once way behind the target and off to the side about 10 yards or so, so I don't think it went to shrapnel mid flight. Perhaps the brass is grabbing...? bullet may be too small...? fun to shoot, and a constant mental challenge to theorize and diagnose, I love it.
So my second Vetterli which I purchased a few weeks ago at a gun show for $200 in Chilliwack was kind of a thrill, I couldn't resist, I figured I'm already set up for it why not? I believe its the 1869 model, and is missing the breech cover and tab from both sides since it had little holes and a slot cut in the sides that appear to be pivot points, and I had to fabricate the little steel bolt stopper that slips in above and behind the bolt. No, this time I did not affect its appearance since it is still full length and is in relatively nice condition, (aside from the bolt modification because they wouldn't swap).
Well I slugged it at home, and the groove measures .425 and lands of .410. It's considerably tighter, and I cant chamber a round. I tried both fired and unfired empty brass, and that seems to fit fine, but with a bullet in the brass I can't close the bolt. Its close, but another 3/16 of an inch to go. Also its tough to pull the bullet back out again. It feels like the bullet is sticking, and I need to either size it down, or cast a new bullet. I guess I could just shorten the round and force it out the barrel, but I'm far from an expert on things like that and it seems like not such a great idea (pressures and leading). Just a reasonably cautious sensible lunatic with a few common cents.
My questions would be , if I simply get a new bullet cast, will my dies likely still work to seat and crimp? or will I have to get custom ones cut from lee? And what would be the best diameter to cast, or size down to if need be? My thought process brings me to about .421 so there's no pressure issues, and because of obturation most of that lead would fill the groove anyways.
RCBS suggested a .427 sizer die, Lee mentioned going .425, but also said that you need some room for the lead to obturate and fill the grooves. I already shoot about .006 undersize in one Vetterli and it seems fine, so by my reasoning .421 should work fine.
Either way I've been uncertain as to which way to go, and have looked around a bit at the options for dies, and molds. I have not settled on a bullet yet, I would prefer one that closely resembles the one I shoot like the 421-390-GC, maybe one with a flatter nose.
I know this is just another Vetterli thread amongst the many which were invaluable for everything so far, but many of my questions remain unanswered and I haven't found alot of info on the Vetterlis with a bore this tight, I know there was two chamber sizes, but most people online describe they're 1869's and loose bore, up to .438 I've read. Also, sorry for the book, first post and all, I thought history was important and you would need all the facts. I'll try and get some pics of my setup soon. Any advice is immensely appreciated and you are awesome!