Best .357 mag mold?

[Bula]

OK guy's and gal's,
I just bought a old model S&W 686 and a Ruger GP100. What is the best mould to cast some heavy loads in the 158-180 grain range? I like lyman but I'm not sure if I need gas checked moulds to push them to 1300-1400 fps. any and all advice is appreciated.

[MtGun44]

I've had good results with 16.3 H110 under Lyman's
358429 (IIRC) - the Keith 173 grain. There is a group buy
starting on Catshooter and 45 2.1's best copy version of Elmer's
design. No gas check needed, 8 BHN & .358" in my
686-7 and I think the 16.3 load is in the velocity range you
are looking for.

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

It would be hard to argue against either Lyman #358429 or #358477 in plain base for the 357 Magnum. The #358156 Thompson GC is another classic--and I MUCH prefer the Lyman design to the Lee knock-off version.

[MtJerry]

I shoot a stainless 6" GP100 with the Lyman 358429 and a hunting load over 13.0gr of 2400. Shoots about 2" group at 25 yards.

For targets I use a Lyman 358495 over 4.5gr of 231. Nice TIGHT groups at 25 yards. I took at least a dozen Blue Grouse in the mountains this past fall with this load.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f17/MtJerry/fall.jpg

[Bass Ackward]

Bula,

Do you need a GC? That depends on how much flexibility you want in bullet mix and powder choice. A GC widens your options. And at that velocity level, I would have to say that the GC is starting to take the accuracy edge too.

So it just depends. You see I am lazy. I usually don't ask too much of my PB. It isn't an ego thing for me. Up to 1100 fps where you need the weight on the back of a bullet to stabilize easier, I will shoot PB. And that is probably 98% of my shooting. Over that level and I just go to a check design to avoid hastles. Especially for summer shooting where firing seems to migrate to higher rates.

I have had great success with the 358156 and 14 grains of 2400.

[imashooter2]

There's lot to be said for the SAECO #353. Great shooting 180 grain plain base bullet. OAL crimped in the groove is about 1.610, which makes it a tad long for an unmodified Marlin, but it will work just fine in your revolvers. They also make the #354 which is the same bullet with a gas check.

Watch for another run of the group buy C359-180-RF as well.

[9.3X62AL]

So it just depends. You see I am lazy. I usually don't ask too much of my PB. It isn't an ego thing for me. Up to 1100 fps where you need the weight on the back of a bullet to stabilize easier, I will shoot PB. And that is probably 98% of my shooting. Over that level and I just go to a check design to avoid hastles. Especially for summer shooting where firing seems to migrate to higher rates.


A pretty good summation of my regimen, too.

[Poygan]

Recently I bought a Lachmiller 3 cavity 162grain SWC off ebay. I've had acceptable results with WC820 and now have some loaded with Enforcer. I also like the 150grain RCBS SWC. I had to get the .358429 but I'm not sure about it yet. Doesn't fit into everything without deep seating. I'm thinking the Lachmiller which is a PB will get most of my attention. With Lar's Carnauba Red, I've gotten no noticable leading.

[fourarmed]

Re 358429. It has a long nose, and some magnum revolver cylinders may be marginal in length if it is crimped in the groove. For my model 19 and my wife's Ruger maximum, I seat it just past the front of the driving band, and crimp over that. Accuracy seems to be good, and it may be that uniformity of case length is less critical when seated that way.

[happy7]

It would be hard to argue against either Lyman #358429 or #358477 in plain base for the 357 Magnum. The #358156 Thompson GC is another classic--and I MUCH prefer the Lyman design to the Lee knock-off version.

Deputy Al (or anyone else who has an opinion),

I have been thinking I want to get a 358156. Then I realized the Lee is really similar. Can you expound on why you prefer the Lyman over the Lee? I will probably get one of them, and while the six cavities and price of the Lee make it attractive, if the Lyman makes better bullets I will get the Lyman.

[Dale53]

I am a great fan of Elmer's bullet design. I have shot a bushel basket of his bullets in various .357's , .44's and 45's with really good results.

However, I have become a real fan of RF noses (round flat) as it is pretty much understood these days that the only thing that the shoulder on a SWC touches is paper. On meat, only the meplat size seems to matter.

If that is true, and I believe it so, Lee's 158 RF is now my bullet of choice for the .38 Special and the .357 magnum. It has a nice wide meplat and carries plenty of lube. I must confess that I have shot no game with this bullet (just recently started using it) but I am confident that it will do the job that a .357 is suited for. Lee has it available in their excellent six caivy moulds and they can be bought from F&M Reloading or Midway for less than forty dollars. Talk about a DEAL!!

I believe that the "round flat" in a properly designed bullet is THE bullet of the day.

Dale53

[GP100man]

in my 6"GP i shoot the rnfp by lee & 16gr.h110 loobed with lars carnauba red works good!!!
im not a bullseye shooter but i can kick a can around purty good with this loading

GP100man

[MT Gianni]

Deputy Al (or anyone else who has an opinion),

I have been thinking I want to get a 358156. Then I realized the Lee is really similar. Can you expound on why you prefer the Lyman over the Lee? I will probably get one of them, and while the six cavities and price of the Lee make it attractive, if the Lyman makes better bullets I will get the Lyman.

I like the lube grooves better on the LY. The lee seem kindda shallow to me. Gianni.

[Larry Gibson]

A pretty good summation of my regimen, too.

Bass Ackward's pretty much got my regiman down too (or I have his or yours or whatever). I mostly use Lyman 358477 for midrange .357 loads at 100 fps (6" barrel) and 358156 for top end magnum loads at 1400+ fps. In .38s I use the Lee 358-105-SWC for a light load and Lee's TL358-158-SWC (6 holer) for standard .38 special loads at 850 fps.

Happy7

I've been using the 358156 for so long in a multitude of .357s revolvers and a couple Contenders over the years that I have faith in it and know it works, especially at top end magnum velocities. I also loaded thousands of heavy loads of 13.5 gr 2400 in .38 cases with the crimp in the bottom crimp groove for use in a Colt Trooper. Consequently I have not tried the Lee take off so I can't say anything about it.

Larry Gibson

[MakeMineA10mm]

It would be hard to argue against either Lyman #358429 or #358477 in plain base for the 357 Magnum. The #358156 Thompson GC is another classic--and I MUCH prefer the Lyman design to the Lee knock-off version.

In my experience, this is the perfect answer to the orginal question. Any of these three are outstanding bullets for the 357, with their own idiosyncracies and optimization.

The Lyman 358429 Keith is THE heavy-weight hunting bullet (and not bad for long-range accuracy either) for this caliber, but it is quite long and will not fit in many revolver cylinders when seated to the crimp groove (but will if deep-seated, crimping over the SWC shoulder).

The Lyman 358156 Thompson design is THE high-velocity 357 bullet, with a very effective nose profile, gas-check base (required for 1400fps+), and flexibility of two crimp grooves, as described by others above.

The Lyman 358477 (150gr-weight version) is a shortened version of Keith's design. It holds to all of his principles (except weight), but is short enough to actually fit in all cylinders (fixing the problem the 358429 bullet has with seating depth/OAL). I like this bullet for shooting (as opposed to hunting or defense), and I therefore shoot many more of these than the other two, because I do a heck of a lot more shooting at the range, than hunting.

HTH. :castmine:

[Black Prince]

Bula

You didn't say how long the barrels are on the two standard .357 S&W Magnum revolvers you bought, but unless you know something the rest of us don't, you ain't gonna push a heavy bullet out of those revolvers at any 13 to 1400 FPS and have either of them stay in one piece very long, and you may not stay in one piece either if you try it. It'sa hellofva experience to have one of those things come apart in your hands. I split the cylinder and blew out the top strap on a real fine six inch Model 19 trying to shoot that big Keith bullet 1300 fps, and that dam shore got my attention you betcha! If you need that much velocity, go to the 357Maximum or the .357 Herrett. Or better yet, just go to the 44 S&W Magnum and be done with it.

In your standard .357 Magnum, load Lyman's classic Keith bullet #358429, ( Elmer Keith and Phil Sharpe designed the .357 Magnum in 1934 so Keith ought to know a good bullet for it when he designs one) which comes out of my mould cast of wheel weights at 171 grains and weighs 173 grains lubed. I've loaded that bullet over 14.5 grains of 2400 powder in a 6 inch Smith Mod. 19 since 1970. ( This was with the old Hercules 2400 and NOT the new Alliant 2400 which burns faster. Use STANDARD primers and get more velocity than using the magnums.) It comes out of my six inch barrel over the Chrony at an average of 1170 fps. I've killed four men, seven deer, a buncha hogs, and two turkey's with it. It did fail me once however when it only paralyzed another man I shot and it didn't kill him. But it adjusted his attitude and he quit doing what he was doing.

I betcha you'll find it to be a good bullet for either man or beast if you try it. That bullet at 1100 fps will kill anything that it will kill at 13 to 1400 fps. You won't notice any difference in actual field performance and I say that having a TC Contender with a .357 Herrett 10 inch barrel on it and shooting that same bullet at an honest 1400 fps out of it. It does not kill any better out of the Herrett than it does out of the Smith despite the increased velocity. Dead is dead and that is what counts. You can only let daylight out both sides of what you shoot, and that bullet will do that at 1100 FPS as good as it will do it at 1400. Try it and I betcha you'll like it.

If you don't, try Lyman bullet #358156 at 158 grains weight and 15 grains of 2400. It'll go 1200 fps + and it will get your attention. It's fire and thunder-- Muzzle flash in broad daylight!!! Wonderful stuff. You gonna LIKE IT!! Oh yeah.

[Cherokee]

Bula - Lyman 358477 will do 1400 fps with 2400 from 8 & 10" barrels but the same load in a 6" was sub-1400. I would not push the load any more. The Lyman 358156 would be a better choice for the high speed loads. I presently use the Lee 358-158 FN bullet for pin shooting and a medium charge of HS6. Cleans the table with authority and not abusive to my 686 8" revolver.

[9.3X62AL]

Happy--

Gianni cited one of my objections to the Lee boolit--shallow lube grooves. Another objection is the Lee's shorter nose. That trait might be a plus in some revolvers with shorter cylinders than my Blackhawk and 686. Add on that the Lyman boolit shoots better in both of my 357's, and it's a no-brainer in my guns.

[AlaskaMike]

I'm curious that nobody's mentioned RCBS 38-150-SWC. I like the looks of 358477 better, but the RCBS bullet seems to do well in my S&W model 28. I have it going 1350 fps using 17 grains of 296, and that's from a 4" barrel.

Mike

[StrawHat]

My favorite bullet for the 38/357 is the Lyman 358439, the HP version of the 358429.

Given that casting HPs is a pain, you might consider the 358429.

Also look at the GB mold going now.

[Black Prince]

Bula: "What is the best mould to cast some heavy loads in the 158-180 grain range? "

That is what started this thread. I am about as bad as anyone about NOT READING the postings, but guys, the man wants to know about the heavier bullets. THAT is probably why no one has mentioned the lighter ones. But then, I could be wrong again because I shore have been here a buncha times and ya'll got me straight. But I read the tread this time, so maybe I may be on to something here.

Or maybe not.

I doan know.

Whur's Wills when we need him?