Wildcat Headspace Question

[BulletFactory]

I think its a wildcat anyhow...
I am turning a bunch of 30-06 into .308 And I ran into two problems.

I have the dies set up to headspace the .308 to 1.627. When I size the 30-06 cases, the headspace comes in at 1.634 or thereabouts. Is this normal? Do I just re adjust my dies to compensate?

Second issue. The necks get thicker, and I have a Forster neck tool on the way to deal with it, but when trimming to length, the pilot is binding up in the cases, tighter the further down I go. This makes it so I cant trim them down to length.

What do I do?

[Bwana]

First off, where is the "wildcat"? The headspace differential is most likely due to the thicker brass resisting and then springing back more after sizing. My suggestion would be for you to get a .284 pilot for your trimmer. It should work as I have done that sort of thing in the past.

[Smokin7mm]

I think its a wildcat anyhow...
I am turning a bunch of 30-06 into .308 And I ran into two problems.

I have the dies set up to headspace the .308 to 1.627. When I size the 30-06 cases, the headspace comes in at 1.634 or thereabouts. Is this normal? Do I just re adjust my dies to compensate?

Second issue. The necks get thicker, and I have a Forster neck tool on the way to deal with it, but when trimming to length, the pilot is binding up in the cases, tighter the further down I go. This makes it so I cant trim them down to length.

What do I do?

Not sure what you consider a wildcat but just making 308 from 30-06 is not wildcatting in my book. The reason you are getting the headspace longer than you want is due to springback as stated above.
As for the neck being thicker..........Yes this will happen because you are shortening a 30-06 and getting into the part of the 06 case that is tapering thicker. If you are using full length sizing dies and when you pull the expander button out of the case it may also be springing back not allowing the pilot to enter for trimming. Try annealing first. Also that is alot to trim in a trimmer. When I make the 30 Herrett (a wildcat) from 30-30 I trim off the bulk of the neck to withing .020-.030 of length on a small chop saw or use a tubing cutter. To get the neck to the proper thickness I recommend outside neck turning as apposed to inside neck reaming. Gives you a more consistant neck wall thickness.
Hope this helps.
Bret

[scrapcan]

You are reforming a standard case to another standard case, as Bwana said this is not a wildcat. Wildcat cartridge forming can be more involved or just the same process you will need to go through depending on the case configuration desired.

However if you are making a long neck 308 then it is considered a wildcat.

You will likely need to inside neck ream to get rid of the doughnut that is created in the necking down. This occurs at the neck/shoulder junction inside the case. I prefer the inside ream as that is the only real way to get rid of the doughnut. Don't go overboard with ID reaming. You may likely find that you will need to OD turn also for reasons mentioned.

As to the fitting the reformed case to you rifle, make them fit what you need by adjusting. But don't go adjusting until you either ID ream or OD turn and run back through the full length sizer.

Also if you are using military brass as the donor make sure you adjust you initial powder charge accordingly.

You might also want to see if someone will trade you brass for brass. If you are using military or match 30-06 brass, they may trade you for something similar. I may be willing to trade if it is Lake City match brass, I have some LC 7.62 brass on hand I think.

[BulletFactory]

Im using mostly Remington brass. I know I could trade it out, but Id like to learn how to do it. Its fun to do, and fun to learn.

I am sizing with an RCBS small base sizer die with the guts removed.

Where do I get an inside reamer?

[MIBULLETS]

If you have a Forester trimmer, I think you can get a neck reamer for it.

[scrapcan]

yes you should be able to get an ID reamer for the forster trimmer. I have one from when I had to make 300 savage form 30-06 brass.

[BulletFactory]

WOW! I didnt know they were 75 bucks!

[scrapcan]

If you have the forster trimmer the ID reamer is around 30 dollars.

Here is an example.

http://www.forsterproducts.com/catalog.asp?prodid=700239

Or if you have the forster trimmer send me a pm.

[DukeInFlorida]

and why is this in the swage area?

[BulletFactory]

I wasnt really sure where to put it, or even if it was really a "wildcat".

New territory for me.

ManleyJT. PM sent.

[Larry Gibson]

Assuming you are cutting off the real excess length some other way than with the trimmer? If so and you've a .30 cal or preferably a .31 cal M Die run the case necks over the expander a coup times without flaring the case mouth and then trim on the Forster trimmer. You will probably need to lube the inside of the case necks, a Q tip with lube on it works fine. That should uniform the inside diameter and the trimer pilot should be a snug fit down the entire neck.

If you are doing the above with the M die then take the decap/expander rod out of the FL die, that should solve the headspace changing when the thick neck is drug over the thicker harder neck.

You should also probably anneal the neck/shoulder of the finished cases.

Larry Gibson

[scrapcan]

BulletFactory,

replied to your pm.

[BulletFactory]

What is the benefit of annealing? I'm a little hesitant about annealing, I've read that not enough is a waste, and too much is dangerous.

[Larry Gibson]

Anneling the neck and shoulder area softens the brass allows the case to expand and contract without splitting. .308W formed from '06 cases many times gets the neck and shoulder area below the annealed portion of the '06 case. Also the forming hardens the brass. You've spent a lot of time and effort to form those cases and having split necks on the 1st or 2nd firing will be rather disheatening to say the least.

BTW; How much '06 and what make of '06 are you converting. If it is once fired commercial or once fired US milsurp I would gladly trade you some 7.62 NATO (US) for it? That would save you a lot of time and effort and would make my '06s happy.

Larry Gibson

[BulletFactory]

They are once fired from a bolt action, mostly Hornady and Remmington. 125 cases

They have already been loaded, should I pull them, anneal, and then start over?

Wont annealing have a negative affect on neck tension?

[Larry Gibson]

No sense pulling them as commercial cases should be ok for at least 1 firing, especially if they are cast bullet loads(?). If the annealing is done correctly neck tension will probably be more uniform.

Larry Gibson

[BulletFactory]

Thanks.

At this time, Im running the "classic load" of 41.5 H-4895 with Sierra MatchKing 168 gr BTHP.

Still debating on casting for this rifle.

[Larry Gibson]

That should be fine as that "classic" match load is fairly mild psi wise.

Larry Gibson

[BulletFactory]

Figured it was a good place to start. Seems proven.

[leadman]

When I reform cases for my 7.65X54 Arg. mauser I trim to the max length as I have found when fired and the cases form to the chamber the shorten just a little.
Annealing is not hard and Hornady makes a kit with tools to hold the case and a paste to put on the case that indicates when the proper temperature is reached. Annealing can be done without it and for what you are doing you should be able to get away without using the kit.

I learned from experience that some cases that are very thin in the neck area can be over annealed very easily so now have the material to check the temperature.

[BulletFactory]

I ordered one of these, should be here in 10 days. I got the 650* one, figured that I would mark the body just below the neck. I read an article on annealing in which the author had used one.

[BulletFactory]

They worked perfectly, thanks all.