S&W N-Frame (27 & 28)

[Fugowii]

I have a few of the N-frame pistols and when I shoot cast boolits I get leading on the outside of the cylinder in the flutes. I have heard/read(?) about reaming pistol throats and I was wondering if this is to mitigate this problem? I'm in the dark about what to do about this leading and it is a ***** to clean off. It doesn't occur on anything else I own. I am sizing .358 and the barrels slug to .357. I don't get any leading at all on these revolvers in the usual places. I don't even know if I am going down the wrong road with this thought or what, so any and all thoughts would be welcome. [smilie=b:

TIA

F

[MtGun44]

What diameter are your throats? PLEASE understand EXACTLY what you are doing
before you change any of your wonderful revolver's critical dimensions.

Occasionally, reaming is useful - but IME, the S&W .357 and .38 cal revolvers (and I
have many) are all dimensionally very, very good.

In .44s and very often in various .45 cal revolvers, throat dimensions have been found
to be significantly off of the optimum.

Not impossible, but unlikely your revolvers are off dimensionally.

Leading on the outside is from cyl blast, possibly the cyl gap is larger than normal?
This sometimes happens with age in S&Ws, but less often in the big N-frame guns
than in the K-frames and early SS 686s.

Bill

[leftiye]

Plus 1 on cyl gapsize. Do you use HOT loads or soft lead?

[rintinglen]

Either the cylinder gap is too large (common from the factory on 1970's vintage guns), the barrel throat is too small or off-center, or else you have a timing issue. First measure the cylinder gap using leaf gauges. An .004 should enter, an .011 should not enter. (I personally think .010 is too large, but it would still be within spec). Ideally, you should hope for .005 to .007 clearance, and the clearance should be the same top and bottom. Less may result in cylinder binding, especially with magnum loads, more gives excessive gas loss and lead spray. Carefully examine the rear of the barrel to see if the the throat is concentric. Look for chips, cracks or irregularities. Finally, carefully examine fired casings to insure that the the primers are being struck in the center. Even a few thousandths wear on th bolt or the hand can result in "slop" which can yield the symptoms you describe.

During the magnum craze of the 1970's under the ownership of Bangor Punta, S&W made and sold many poorly fitted and untested guns. The experienced guys who had signed on during WWII were retiring, the new guys did not have their skill in nursing good results out of tired machines, and the place was run by bean counters who were just as content to make a buck off any piece of junk as long as people were buying. As a consequense, Quality control was simply non-existent and they were selling every gun they could shovel out the door. Those were some bad years for Smiths, N-frames in particular.

I personally saw a 44 Magnum cylinder on a Model 57, another 44 Magnum cylinder that had no throats but was bored straight through, and numerous Model 28s that were badly made. One police order sent back 7 out of 9 guns for various flaws. The model 28 being the economy grade, they tended to be the worst. Thankfully, Bangor Punta finally sold the company, and the new owners made significant improvements in quality--especially when the Ruger Redhawks and Colt Anacondas began selling in quantity.

[David LaPell]

I agree on getting the cylinder gap measured, because this doesn't sound right. The other thing is how many rounds do you fire at a time? When I used to do practice sessions with my M & P (K-frame) before I did a match with it I would shoot 100 rounds or so and they were all lead SWC's of about 10 BHN or so. The front of the cylinder looked like it was painted grey and it would take a bit to get that gunk off. But it did come off. I started with a Q-tip in solvent, get the loosest stuff off first (some guys dont even take the cylinder off of the gun) and then I would just take a cloth and keep working on it until it was gone. I found that if you clean it as soon as possible after shooting it helps get it off quicker and with less effort. I recently shot my Outdoorsman with some harder bullets, say 14 BHN and I shot about 50 rounds with no noticable lead buildup on the front of the cylinder. I would check on how hard your bullets are, but also if you do shoot alot of rounds then you can expect this on the front of your cylinder. I get this on alot of my guns after heavy range sessions when they are either K or N frames.

[Fugowii]

Thanks for all the responses. I usually fire anywhere from 100 rounds and up at a time. My loads are just target loads, 3.2gr of Win231 under a 148gr BBWC. Hardness is usually around 10-11, a range scrap (75%) and some other hard lead (25%) mix with 2% tin added. I'll measure the gaps to see if that is the culprit. I have two 28's and a 27 and they all do this. I will also take the advice of removing the stuff right away. I usually wipe down the firearms after taking them to the range and save the detail cleaning for another day.

[Iron Mike Golf]

Hoppe's #9 and a brass toothbrush works great for me on my M28.

[Rico1950]

As MtGun44 said, measure your cylinder throats!