2 screw ruger (BFR) will ALWAYS break with creep?

[Whiterabbit]

I've talked to one gunsmith and seen the work of another (on MY GUN). One said that the 2 screw ruger could never break absolutely clean. That they weren't as "tunable" as 3 screw rugers or smith and wesson revolvers in SA. The gunsmith who actually performed the trigger job on my BFR wrote in the paperwork "max creep removed without making firearm unsafe".

There's still creep. You can very clearly feel it about to break, then it breaks. I sent it back (for a different reason) but I already know how the conversation (with respect to the trigger job part of the work) is gonna go:

Him: "any less creep and the firearm is unsafe."
Me: "I don't want an unsafe firearm."
Him: "Pay me for the work and move along."

And ultimately I won't have him do anything more to the trigger, I do not want an unsafe firearm!

Is this creep-as-a-part-of-design always the case though? Is this just a design feature of the safety bar 2-screw Ruger and BFR designs, like the other gunsmith said? Am I being unreasonable? will every single one of these pistols always and forever almost break, then break?

[Wolfer]

I M O yes. I've never been able to get a really good trigger on anything with a transfer bar safety. Usable but not great.

[colonelsanders]

I disagree. I have a power customs bisley hammer and trigger along with some wolff reduced power springs. It breaks cleanly at 2# every time with no creep.

It is absolutley amazing and was absolutly woth the $200 to turn my 10.5" barrel blackhawk into a tackdriver.

[Wolfer]

I disagree. I have a power customs bisley hammer and trigger along with some wolff reduced power springs. It breaks cleanly at 2# every time with no creep.

It is absolutley amazing and was absolutly woth the $200 to turn my 10.5" barrel blackhawk into a tackdriver.

I'll agree with this. I was talking about factory parts. I've given some thought to doing this to my new Vaq but when I got it they had just came out and Ron Powers wasn't making anything for them yet. Don't know about now.

[dubber123]

Find another 'smith. It's not hard to reduce creep to such a low level in those guns, it would take a world class shooter or a machine to detect it. In my opinion, he's too afraid of liability, or too lazy to do the sear right.

[looseprojectile]

Thanks for letting me know what my work can be worth.
On Ruger single actions I like the three screw guns way better but I can fix a new model also.
I have experienced one hundred percent success on the double action Rugers also.
Whiterabbit needs to find a smith that cares and has the skill and experience.
A BFR would be scary with a bunch of creep.


Life is good

[contender1]

Look for a better gunsmith. One who knows the Ruger SA NM's. I have a pair I bought, (NM NV's) that have ZERO creep & smooth as silk actions. I wish I knew who the smith was,,,!

[Lloyd Smale]

there are two kinds of gunsmiths that do trigger work. The first and this includes most are guys that put springs in or bend springs and call that an action job and charge maybe 50 bucks then there are smiths who know what there doing. I have a buddy who does my rugers. He gets them down to 2lbs with absolutely no creap and stone parts until the they feel like there running on ball bearings. Problem with this is i get it for free and he puts a good day into doing it and tears the gun down and puts it back together many times until he gets it to his satisfaction. If your talking paying a gunsmith to do it it would no doubt cost a couple hundred bucks. I chuckle when i hear someone say that a newer ruger or newer 1911 cant have a good trigger. If i heard it from a gunsmith id be looking for a new GUNSMITH and id be staying away from a parts changer, which by the way is what most so called gunsmiths are.

[colonelsanders]

I concur with Lloyd, the vast majority of people calling themselves gunsmiths are in fact parts changers (or armorers as my dad used to say).

Because of this I intend to purchase the full set of power custom stoning fixtures so that I can do it myself and get exactly what I wanted.

Many of my older friend have often mentioned the scarecity of decent gunsmiths and triggersmiths these days. Its down to vdry few qualified folks per state as far as I can tell.

[dubber123]

It only amounts to reducing the too deep sear contact, deburring and polishing the rough stuff, and replacing/tweaking the overly strong return spring. They are not that hard. 2-2.5# is easy in just a couple trips in. 1-3/4# is the lightest I have gotten with full power factory springs.

[Whiterabbit]

well, I should be clear that pull weight makes no difference to me. 2 lb or 4 lb, it's OK. I just want it to break like glass.

[looseprojectile]

to make a stoning fixture.
Just drill the correct diameter holes with the right spacing in a block of something.
Mark it and it will last for several lifetimes.
Most of the time I don't bother.
I really need the one for the picky ARs.

Life is good

[MtGun44]

You need a real trigger mechanic. Frankly, many gunsmiths are more like
blacksmiths and can't do this fine work. I can do it for sure, not impossible, just
takes skill and some careful work. No need for lighter springs, really, but they
make it easier.

Bill

[KCSO]

Yes and no you can put an excellent trigger in a Ruger but if you use Ruger parts you will need spares and LOTS of time. A creep free SAFE job might take a 1/2 day or better of work and you might have to start over fresh. Or you can fit Power parts and parts alone are $150 to $180. Either way it is a very expensive operation.

[John 242]

This is what I understand a Ruger Single Action trigger job to consist of in a nutshell.

This info is my interpretation of what I've read at Cylindersmith.com (http://www.cylindersmith.com/triggerspring.html), which has a great deal more information than what I have listed bellow. Does this jive with what you fellows consider to be a good trigger job on a Ruger SA?

Reduce sear engagement by 50% on the hammer, not the trigger. DO NOT change the angle where the trigger engages the hammer. Reducing sear engagement results in a cleaner and smoother trigger break.
The main spring does not affect trigger pull to any great extent. Reducing mainspring weight increases hammer fall time and could result in reduced reliability
Altering the trigger return spring reduces trigger pull weight and creates a smoother trigger pull.

I know there is a Kuhnhausen book on the Ruger Single Action revolvers, but I do not own a copy, yet.

John T.

[MtGun44]

I primarily do triggers on 1911s, but have done many other guns.

IMO, reducing the hammer spring strength when doing a trigger job borders on
malpractice. If you have no idea how to do a trigger job, you can benefit from weaker
springs. If you know how to refit and polish the parts, it is completely unnecessary and
may cause ignition issues and WILL slow the lock time, which worsens accuracy.

Reduced hammer-sear engagement and polishing are the key starting points. And while
I STRONGLY agree that changing the sear or hammer hook angle is NOT recommended,
there are some systems where it will be impossible to get a really good trigger with the
factory engagement angles. Changing engagement angles is really pushing your luck if
you are not an expert, and should NOT be done as a general rule it will cause an unsafe
trigger system about 90% of the time when done by non-experts, because 90% of the
time it is NOT needed, and only adds instability to the system - making it unsafe.

A few systems have significantly wrong angles and can be safely changed by an expert.

The great majority will be ruined by changing the angles.

Reduce sear engagement, polish to a mirror and make certain you have full width,
precise contact. Sounds easy, for some it is not too bad, for some it is totally beyond
their skills and patience. Also - magnification is mandatory, if you can't CLEARLY see
exactly what you are doing, how can you expect to succeed?

Bill

[ksriverrat]

IMO, reducing the hammer spring strength when doing a trigger job borders on
malpractice. A few systems have significantly wrong angles and can be safely changed by an expert.

The great majority will be ruined by changing the angles.

Reduce sear engagement, polish to a mirror and make certain you have full width,
precise contact. Sounds easy, for some it is not too bad, for some it is totally beyond
their skills and patience. Also - magnification is mandatory, if you can't CLEARLY see
exactly what you are doing, how can you expect to succeed?

Bill An A+

[John 242]

Thanks for the info, Bill. I appreciate it.
Yeah, I guess it does sound easy, but if I were to tackle the project as a beginner, I'd like to have a couple of replacement parts on hand because I most likely will mess something up.
I'd also have to spend some time doing a little more research and maybe pick up Jerry's book to get a well rounded idea of what I was about to do.

In a perfect world, the best way to learn to do a proper trigger job would be to learn from a master gunsmith, unfortunately they are few and far between.

Oh, by the way, Hamilton Bowen will be teaching how to work on single-actions this summer at Murray (MSCC) June 25 to June 29. I assume that he's hitting other schools, too. I'd really like to take the class, but I think the Brownells 1911 class during the same week is calling my name.
Regards,
John T.