Part of the 10mm club!!

[Love Life]

Well almost. I put a Colt Delta Elite on layaway today and will be bringing her home in a month or so.

Anywho I searched through the 10mm threads and got great info on the cartridge and loading for it, but not much on the gun.

I have read the reviews around the net, but I would like to hear what members here have to say about the gun.

The good, the bad, and the ugly.

Thanks a bunch. Now if you'll excuse me I will be on my way to hunt up brass, a mould, and other necessities.

[gunfan]

I have been shooting the 10mm Auto since 1991. The new Colt's Delta Elite has most of the "kinks" worked out of it. I would check to make certain that the spring is stout enough to handle Double Tap's and Buffalo Bore's loads. These are at the "upper end" of the 10mm's practical range in an auto pistol.

The revolver is a slightly different animal, as it can take a slightly higher pressure load for a longer period of time.

Remember, the 10mm Auto's MAXIMUM pressure is 37,500 psi (same as the .38 Super.) This lends itself to using heavier bullets for hunting purposes, as well as hot and heavy antipersonnel loads ranging between 155 and 180 grains in weight.

Lighter bullets (from 135-150) grains are quite effective against smaller game and bad guys in summer apparel, but a thick glass plate, reinforced with chicken wire, can stop a lighter bullet.

For summer carry, a 155-grain JHP Double Tap load is an excellent choice, while a 180-grain JHP is a better bet against winter clothing. (Penetration being a key factor in reaching the vital organs.)

I hope that this has been illuminating.

Scott

[subsonic]

Look into the 175sthp winchester ammo. It has been great since the 90s and is what I carry. A friend had an older Delta and I have a G20.

Both were good. The delta had trouble with the front sight coming off. Other than that, no issues.

I have not played much with cast in the 10mm.

You'll want to make sure you have some AA9 and 800x if you want to load it to full potential.

[Love Life]

Hopefully it is not as finicky as the 9mm was or as the 40S&W is rumored to be with cast boolits. Only time will tell.

Thank you for all the information so far!

[gunfan]

I have heard of some difficulties experienced with the W-W Silvertip Hollow Point:

1) Failure to expand,

2) Failure to reach advertised velocities, and,

3) Failure to stop the aggressor.

Check www.ballisticsbytheinch.com to understand why the Silvertip factory loads aren't all that they are "cracked up to be."

Buffalo Bore's 180-grain JHC is a "bad boy" in the extreme. It works, without a single shred of doubt.


Scott

[Glen]

I like the Delta Elite. The one thing I would comment on is mine appears to have a fairly tight chamber (only about .003" room for expansion), and accumulated fouling/grunge can have an impact on feeding reliability, so I make a point to keep it clean.

[subsonic]

I have heard of some difficulties experienced with the W-W Silvertip Hollow Point:

1) Failure to expand,

2) Failure to reach advertised velocities, and,

3) Failure to stop the aggressor.

Check www.ballisticsbytheinch.com to understand why the Silvertip factory loads aren't all that they are "cracked up to be."

Buffalo Bore's 180-grain JHC is a "bad boy" in the extreme. It works, without a single shred of doubt.


Scott

How many one shot stops with that BB load? How many actual shootings?
Name a handgun round that can be counted on to really stop an aggressor 100%.

[Love Life]

Keep em' coming gents! Lord help me to be strong and stay away from the swaging area.

[seagiant]

Hi,
I don't know much about the Delta Elite,as I have been shooting a Glock and S&W 1006. I use the RCBS TC mold with Blue Dot powder and LP brass. There IS something about a 180 Gr. boolit doing 1300 FPS!

[gunfan]

How many one shot stops with that BB load? How many actual shootings?
Name a handgun round that can be counted on to really stop an aggressor 100%.

Penetration is the key with any handgun round. The Buffalo Bore 180-grain JHP has both the velocity and the expansion to make the penetrating capabilities of the 10mm count. this is especially important during the winter months in Northern latitudes where the object of the exercise is likely to be wearing thick layers of clothing.

Violent expansion when using the 150-165 grain bullets is where the 10mm Auto really shines! The lighter bullets tend to expand abruptly, causing permanent cavitation and result in profound exanguination. Lighter bullets are great in the Southern latitudes, where little resistance, due to clothing, is encountered, however, not many opponents in a gunfight are running around in just a t-shirt.

Scott

[Love Life]

Penetration is the key with any handgun round. The Buffalo Bore 180-grain JHP has both the velocity and the expansion to make the penetrating capabilities of the 10mm count. this is especially important during the winter months in Northern latitudes where the object of the exercise is likely to be wearing thick layers of clothing.

Violent expansion when using the 150-165 grain bullets is where the 10mm Auto really shines! The lighter bullets tend to expand abruptly, causing permanent cavitation and result in profound exanguination. Lighter bullets are great in the Southern latitudes, where little resistance, due to clothing, is encountered, however, not many opponents in a gunfight are running around in just a t-shirt.

Scott

I'm not trying to cause trouble here, but I really don't see your parka stopping a 155 gr projectile screaming along.

I have my own ideas on killing power and the 10mm fits in there well. Heck to me all firearms fit in there well.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program...

-Break-

SeaGiant- I was eyeballin that mould today.

[gunfan]

I'm not trying to cause trouble here, but I really don't see your parka stopping a 155 gr projectile screaming along.

I have my own ideas on killing power and the 10mm fits in there well. Heck to me all firearms fit in there well.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program...

-Break-

SeaGiant- I was eyeballin that mould today.

The 180-grain JHP screaming along at 1350 fps is going to rip someone a new anal port. I guarantee it! :bigsmyl2:

The idea of the 10mm is to make the most of the .401" bullet, regardless of the application.

Scott

[seagiant]

Hi,
Quit lookin and start castin!!! Ha! Everyone here knows I'm the poster child for RCBS molds! I don't see how you can beat them even new at current prices. The only downside I will admit to is they don't come in a 4 cavity but I'd rather have a 2 cavity RCBS than a 4 cavity Lyman or 6 cavity LEE!

You might look at the Blue Dot also a VERY nice powder for 10MM! Here's a pic of my CH Auto Champ I just set up to load 10mm on!

[Love Life]

The 180-grain JHP screaming along at 1350 fps is going to rip someone a new anal port. I guarantee it! :bigsmyl2:

The idea of the 10mm is to make the most of the .401" bullet, regardless of the application.

Scott

No doubt, but once you start poking high velocity holes in people they tend to knock it off regardless.

The only reason I would shoot balls to the wall ammo is when out hiking due to mountain lions finding me more interesting than I find them. For that reason I will have a box of barn burners.

For casual shooting I will go with midrange loads. More like a 40 S&W +P. Or maybe even more mild than that.


now back to our regularly scheduled program...

[Love Life]

I agree with you 100% SeaGiant. I love RCBS moulds because they are awesome. I hate RCBS moulds because they are 2 cavity.

I am waiting until I get the gun before I buy a mould so I can slug the barrel. Why blue dot? I was looking at the good old standby of unique.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Well... I'm not going to give you any razzle dazzle I try things and stick with what I like. A 10mm aficianado on the S&W site suggested I try it and I did. You can load it up or down,it has a good "feel"(Pressure Curve?) when you shoot it. I use AA#5 for 45 ACP but given my druthers I would use WW-231 it is actually my favorite powder for the 45 but I came onto a jug of AA#5 so have been using it!With powder prices so high I sometimes have to use what comes down the pike at the best price.

Unique is an excellent powder but I think the Blue Dot is more suited for the 10MM? To be fair the Blue Dot is a fluffy powder so the metering has to be watched but I watch the powder anyway! In a case like this a Google search might give more opinions!

[_The_Shadow]

Hello, I'm new to the forum here, interested in the RG4 10mm/40Cal 200 grain FN/HP and signed on for the group buy pages for one.

I have been active on several of the forums and up till now just lurked around on here...
I have been shooting and handloading for the 10mm since March 1990, I started out casting with the RCBS 175 gr TC SWC, then with the Lyman 4cavity 175 grain TCBB and more recently with the Lyman 156 gr Devastator HP.

Blue Dot has been a mainstay powder over the years, but use Power Pistol, LongShot, 800X, AA#7, AA#9.

Seeing how Hornady left us 10mm guys out in the cold on the "ZOMBIE MAX" I decided to do my own thing for the ZOMBIE invasion!

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0396.jpg

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0393.jpg

Here are some of my other cast BOOLITS for Zombies...
http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0389.jpg

Looking forward to the conversations...

[Love Life]

Ooooooooooohh. I want green boolits. How did you do it and welcome aboard!

[seagiant]

Ouch!

[subsonic]

I ran/run almost everything full speed in my G20. The recoil in the Glock is much "friendlier" than it was in the Delta.

My pal liked Unique and I flirted with Titegroup, but wasn't impressed. Ken Waters had a lot of good stuff in "Pet Loads" for the big ten. Without digging it out, I want to say he liked AA7 the best all-around. I'll look/verify after work.

[excess650]

My 10mm is a 5" S&W 610. I shot a few boxes of factory ammo through it when I first got it back around 1990. The 170gr Norma stuff was HOT! I recall it ran in excess of 1370fps through my chrono. I bought 180gr Hornady XTPs and loaded them over AA#7. With this load this was the most accurate handgun that I ever shot with the exception of my Contender.

Its been years since I shot the 10mm, and I just cast up some boolits for it. I have both the NOE 10mm 180gr and NOE 200gr in 4 cavity. The boolits I cast were from the 180 and drop right at .403".

As for cast in the 40 S&W, I shot one for several seasons while shooting IPSC. The only mold I had at that time was the Lyman 40143, and it shot very well. I loaded over enough AA#5 to get 1000fps and called it good.

[Love Life]

Once again thank you everybody.

Subsonic I would love the info when ever you get the time to look at it. Last time I was around the 10mm I didn't reload much (for shame!), an I am pretty much starting from scratch.

I reckon I'll go with the RCBS 175 GR TC for a mould. Heavy and should provide good feeding. Also it will penetrate clothing in the northern latitudes. Hehehe.

I figured an order for Starline is in order. Now to get some large pistol primers.

Wait. I thought reloading and casting was supposed to save money?

[222]

I have a Dan Wesson rz10 that loves 180gr rdfn (38-40) and a stout load of Power Pistol.

[1845greyhounds]

My father and have had three 10mm's; a Colt Delta Elite (unported), a 5" ported Springfield Armory Omega, and a S&W 610 revolver. The Omega was the softest and possibly the most accurate of them. Unfortunately, part of the barrel locking lug sheared off and no spare parts were available... The 610 was and still is an awesome gun. I shot it for years in IPSC and killed my first Turkey with it. Personally, I didn't enjoy shooting the Delta Elite. It was unported and had incredibly sharp recoil compared to the other two 10mm's. If I had one today and planned to keep it, I'd get it ported...

[_The_Shadow]

Ooooooooooohh. I want green boolits. How did you do it and welcome aboard!

They are just painted prior to sizing and lubing! Let the paint dry/cure for a few days it will hold better. This was just a for fun project! Retired people like to have fun!

Although there are some who are using powdered paint the baking it on before sizing and lubing.

[excess650]

NOE has the 180gr in stock. The 200gr is out of stock.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=143488

I thought I wanted the RCBS 40-180RF until the NOE 180 RF was produced. I bought a 4 cavity NOE instead of the RCBS 2 cavity. My 2 cavity Saeco and RCBS will probably end up in "swappin' and sellin".

The 180 is a good boolit for both the 40 S&W and the 10mm. The 200gr is good for the 10mm, but too heavy (IMO) for the 40 Short & Weak.

My 40 S&W is a Springfield Armory P9 LSP. I've since converted it to SA only with a WCP adjustable trigger and had it fitted with a BarSto non-ported 5" barrel, and adjustable rear sight.

[subsonic]

If I play with cast in my G20, I will likely try the Lee 6 cav TCwith lube groove.

[Love Life]

Excess 650 I sent you a PM

[9.3X62AL]

LOTS of trigger time with the 10mm here, two S&W pistols--a now-departed 1006 and presently a 1026 (5" barrel, SIG-style decocker).

The W-W Silvertips aren't something I'd encourage someone to send my way. 175 grain hollow-points at 1275 FPS (my chronography) should leave a lasting impression. There are no "magic bullets", despite the feverish claims of ammo company ad jockeys.

Norma-level loads (200 grain jacketed bullets @ 1200 FPS) did cause early-series Delta Elites a few issues with battering. I would think that by now Colt and others have worked those kinks out. Such loads are a bit of a handful, but I don't find them excessive.

My favorite boolit in the 10mm is the RCBS 200 grain TC. It's technically a SWC with its very small square shoulder, but it feeds without hiccups in the S&W. My hunting loads using WC-820, AA-9, and Blue Dot run 1200-1225 FPS, and I have 20 rounds loaded with BruceB softpoints that went along on my last deer hunt in a lead-bullet zone (D-14) a few years ago. No bucks, darn it.

Pundits have advanced the claim that the 10mm as a hunting or service caliber is no better than the 357 Magnum. Nonsense! The 10mm at minimum splits the difference between the 357 and 41 Magnums, and given its frontal area and projectile mass (using the 200 grainers) is closer to the 41.

[gunfan]

LOTS of trigger time with the 10mm here, two S&W pistols--a now-departed 1006 and presently a 1026 (5" barrel, SIG-style decocker).

The W-W Silvertips aren't something I'd encourage someone to send my way. 175 grain hollow-points at 1275 FPS (my chronography) should leave a lasting impression. There are no "magic bullets", despite the feverish claims of ammo company ad jockeys.

Norma-level loads (200 grain jacketed bullets @ 1200 FPS) did cause early-series Delta Elites a few issues with battering. I would think that by now Colt and others have worked those kinks out. Such loads are a bit of a handful, but I don't find them excessive.

My favorite boolit in the 10mm is the RCBS 200 grain TC. It's technically a SWC with its very small square shoulder, but it feeds without hiccups in the S&W. My hunting loads using WC-820, AA-9, and Blue Dot run 1200-1225 FPS, and I have 20 rounds loaded with BruceB softpoints that went along on my last deer hunt in a lead-bullet zone (D-14) a few years ago. No bucks, darn it.

Pundits have advanced the claim that the 10mm as a hunting or service caliber is no better than the 357 Magnum. Nonsense! The 10mm at minimum splits the difference between the 357 and 41 Magnums, and given its frontal area and projectile mass (using the 200 grainers) is closer to the 41.

This is all too true, and The Shadow knows his stuff! ( have known him for a long time!) The 10mm accomplishes more than all the other standard autoloading cartridges combined. It is as simple as that!

If you want an autoloading "bad boy" the 10mm Auto is the best of the best. All the cartridge needs is the appropriate, and judicious, handloading to make the cartridge/handgun fill a large number of roles.

Just perform the research, and you'll realize precisely how great this cartridge really is!

Scott

[Love Life]

Thanks for the info Al.

I wouldn't want any boolit/bullet sent my way!

[NHGrumpyGramps]

I have to put another vote in for the S&W 610. It has to be one of the most accurate revolvers I have ever shot. I wanted a 200gr load for it and found an old Lyman 403168 SC which I picked up for little. They drop a little big, but easily size down to 402. Under blue dot I use it for pins and it will really take them off the table.

This is not a mold I would have chosen, but it really seems to work well and they load easily when on moon clips. Has anyone else tried this in 10mm?

[gunfan]

Once again thank you everybody.

Subsonic I would love the info when ever you get the time to look at it. Last time I was around the 10mm I didn't reload much (for shame!), an I am pretty much starting from scratch.

I reckon I'll go with the RCBS 175 GR TC for a mould. Heavy and should provide good feeding. Also it will penetrate clothing in the northern latitudes. Hehehe.

I figured an order for Starline is in order. Now to get some large pistol primers.

Wait. I thought reloading and casting was supposed to save money?

Quite grousing! You'll LOVE your Delta Elite. If you replace the firing pin retainer with one of the flat-bottomed variety from EGW, you'll be happier than a speckled pup under a red wagon! [smilie=w:

After you make that minor modification, go out and shoot the hell out of it. (That's why they were manufactured, you know!)

Scott

[gunfan]

(BTW, if you can find some old 170-grain Nosler JHP bullets, load them ahead of 13 grains of AA#7 and watch them blow out of the barrel at 1324 fps!)

Good stuff, Maynard!

Scott

[Bullwolf]

Since the 610 revolvers keep coming up in this thread...
Here's a picture of my 4 inch Smith & Wesson model 610-3.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=539&pictureid=5183

It is one of the more accurate revolvers that I own, but I am somewhat embarrassed to admit that it has mostly fired only 40s&w 175-180 grain boolits at paper. I have really not shot very many 10mm rounds through the gun.

I like using the plastic full moon clips with it, as I do not have a de-mooning tool. I have found that the plastic moon clips are easier to load/unload by hand than the metal ones are.

At some point or another I will have to work up a cast 10mm load for the gun, and get away from this 40s&w rut that I seem to be stuck in. You have all given me some good ideas for a 10mm starting point so far.


- Bullwolf

[subsonic]

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/Dennis_Doza/92235e3f.jpg
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/Dennis_Doza/cea562da.jpg

That is the meat of it.
He liked 800x and AA7 more than Blue Dot. He recommended 800x for top accuracy and speed with cast using ACWW. He did not mention AA9.

He had some great accuracy with 6.5gr of Unique and Saeco #40047 200gr, but mentions "Unique was abnormally sensative to small charge variances."

Be warned that 800x meters slightly better than corn flakes.

[gunfan]

Incidentally, the load that I quoted for the 170 grain Nosler JHP was from Taffin's Tests in the summer issue of the American Handgunner of 1991.

Scott

[Love Life]

Thanks a bunch Subsonic. I see I missed a chance to own a copy of that book in the S&S section.

This should be more fun than a barrel of monkeys!

Blue dot may be the way to go. Who needs night vision anyway?

[subsonic]

What he said about blue dot was that he got slightly more velocity than AA7 with it, but accuracy was not as good as 800x or AA7. 800x is the speed champ. Of course, YMMV, etc.

AA9 is flash suppressed, meters like water, and will get more velocity than AA7 with a compressed load and 180gr<. I cannot vouch for accuracy though, I have never fully tested it. No complaints though.

[BarryinIN]

I bought one of the new Deltas a couple of years ago. I've had two Glocks (20 and 29) and a S&W 1006, and like the DE best.

The 1006 was OK, but at the time, they had not been made in maybe five years and I started to get concerned over a possible lack of parts for a gun that was only made maybe four years to begin with. That was probably unfounded, but now, it's been 20 years since they were made (wow) so I'd think it might be a bigger concern.

The Glocks were too wide for me. They handled the recoil fine, but they are some wide guns. I actually liked and shot the 29 better. The grip fit my hand better due to the slightly different location of the hump, but it still didn't fit well. I tried to like the idea of the G20's 15+1 of 10mm, but if it didn't fit it didn't fit. It got traded fairly quick. The 29 stayed for several years.

The Delta seems just right to me. The grip feels good and it still holds plenty of bullets.
I can shoot it better than any of the others.

When I got that new DE, I dug out all my old books and magazines from the late 80s when it came out originally.
I swear, the same person could have written them all. Might have. The pattern is the same: Tell how powerful and fierce the 10mm is by comparing it to the .41 Magnum, tell about the changes Colt had to make to get the poor weak 1911 to handle the powerful and fierce 10mm, shoot maybe 300 rounds through it tops, then pronounce the gun unable to handle a steady diet of the powerful and fierce 10mm and say it won't last a thousand rounds with the "hot" Norma load.

First, while the 10mm has a lot of zip, it's no .41 Mag. Even the "hot" Norma load (which I think was more erratic than hot) sent a 200 grain bullet 1200 fps. Anyone who has owned a .41 Mag knows it can do that in it's sleep.

Most of the changes they Colt made to adapt the DE to handle the 10mm were made to all their 1911s at the time, like cutting the slide stop hole up through the frame rails instead of machining a D-shaped hole. The articles of the time say this was done to eliminate a stress riser were the 10mm would surely crack the frame. They leave out that .45s had done the same thing, and that all calibers of Colts got the same treatment and still do (and it's cheaper that way).

Yes, the most I saw any article claim they shot was 300 rounds. I never read of a problem other than the plastic recoil spring guide getting chewed up. Yet they said it wouldn't last. Based on what, I don't know.
I do know of a couple of them that have over 20,000 each through them and they were fine the last I knew. No, that's not an incredible amount, but it's a lot more than the thousand they predicted.
Would it handle a thousand Norma 200 grain loads? Beats me. The way I remember it, they had been out of production and recalled a few years before the DE even existed. What was still out there sold for a premium at gun shows. I didn't know anyone who could buy a thousand rounds of it. So it was essentially unavailable by then.
And that guide rod? My guess is when you use a plastic guide rod that fits tightly into a dual recoil spring arrangement, any caliber will chew it up.

After they stopped making the DEs, the only ones I seemed to see in shops were ones that were like new and expensive, or ones that were really worn. I always noticed the worn ones looked like they had honest wear from shooting, with worn frontstraps, grip safeties, safety levers and slide serrations- places your hand touches when using them, and not holster wear. It would be hard to get that kind of wear if they didn't hold up.

I have something like 1700 rounds through mine, which isn't a lot (but nearly twice the lifespan the old articles predicted). I love it. No problems. Not even with the recoil spring guide.

I mostly use AA7, not because it's the best, but because it is the best I have the most of. Power Pistol works well but is loud, and I like 800X OK.
I only have two .40/10mm moulds- an RCBS 40-180CM, which is really a .38-40 mould, and an H&G 315, which is a TC that is supposed to be 200 grains but runs more like 209 from wheelweights. I got some Lee 175 TCs in a swap. They all do about equally well, which is pretty good.

I've gone from the 40-180s at around 850 fps to the heavy 200 TCs in the upper 1200s. Mostly I shoot the 200s at around 1,000-1100.
I've also used some factory ammo, including the smoking fast CorBon 135s. Everything worked fine.

I like it.
I almost shot it in the Single Stack class in an IPSC match Sunday, but wanted to test out a S&W 1911 I just got back from warranty repair. I have thought about shooting IDPA with it some this year.
I have also thought about using it as my "traveling gun" when going on road trips to see the in-laws. It's a real versatile gun that should do about as well as any auto pistol for anything I might run into, from a pistol match, to a boar hunt, to having to make it back home through a zombie apocalypse.

[GLL]

S&W 610
http://www.fototime.com/643C449ED8A4943/orig.jpg

Jerry

[Love Life]

Barry- Outstanding write up and I thank you for it.I took all the DE reviews with a grain of salt when it came to describing issues. Most of those issues were with the 1st run of DE's, and as you have pointed out were really non issues.

The one I put on layaway is the newer model one. I can't wait.

Jerry-That is just plain wrong. I looked around at 610's, but they just didn't do it for me this time. I like the DE better. For shame!

[gunfan]

I have one of the 6 1/2" barreled S&W Model 610 revolvers (1991 vintage.) These are WONDERFUL "hunters" and can handily harvest deer at reasonable ranges (110 yards or less.)

Don't underestimate the cartridge's ability to take deer and Black Bear. At 25-35 yards, you can take a "Blackie" without too much effort.

The 10mm is a truly GREAT cartridge!

Scott

[subsonic]

Yes, the 10mm is a great round! If the writers hadn't proclaimed it to be so terrible, it would likely be the most common round instead of the .40. Google how many threads on various forums are about trying to get more power from the .40.

Longshot is a powder that would also be worth looking into.

If you search old Glocktalk forum threads, McNett from DoubleTap had a lot of good R&D threads where he worked with various powders in the 10 (he's a big fan!). IIRC, there was pressure data as well.

As far as clothing requiring heavier boolits... Clothing plugs hollow points and INCREASES penetration. If you're worried about it, you should choose somethin like PowerBall or FTX ammo.

[subsonic]

10mm->IT'S THE NEW .44 SPECIAL!

[BarryinIN]

10mm->IT'S THE NEW .44 SPECIAL!

Ya know, there is a lot to that.
Their fans are similar in support of the cartridges.

[Adam10mm]

Pundits have advanced the claim that the 10mm as a hunting or service caliber is no better than the 357 Magnum. Nonsense! The 10mm at minimum splits the difference between the 357 and 41 Magnums, and given its frontal area and projectile mass (using the 200 grainers) is closer to the 41.
The .357 will have better SD than the 10mm, simply due to it being slightly smaller in diameter. Sectional density aside, I refer to them as near ballistic twins. If you like wheelguns, get a .357. If you like autos, get a 10mm. A four inch revolver is comparable to a 5 inch auto. The revoler has the chamber separate from the barrel and the 4 inch barrel is a full 4 inches. The auto with a 5 inch barrel has a chamber 1.275" long included in that 5 inch measurement, so it's an effective 5-1.275" = 3.725" barrel on the auto.

Now with that in mind, the 10mm in a 3.725" effective barrel can push a 180gr bullet to 1300fps safely. That's pretty frickin' amazing if you ask me. The 357 can do that in a 4 inch barreled revolver.

My 10mm is an aluminum frame 1911 Commander. I shoot the snot out of it. No issues with frame battering or cracking. I don't shoot weak ammo either. 180gr @ 1150fps is my plinker load (207 PF), 1250fps is my carry load, and 1300fps is my deer/bear load.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freakshow10mm/DSCN2425.jpg

Unique is a decent powder in the 10mm. I prefer WSF for lead. Think of it as a ball equivalent to Unique, ie same performance but meters much better. Low smoke and very boolit friendly. A great small game load is 6.0gr WSF behind a 175-180gr anything. The best full power powder is Longshot.

LSWCs around 175gr are great. Lee's 175gr TC mould is a great boolit and I've shot the daylights out of those. I've cast a few Lee 145gr SWCs that dropped at 152gr. Shot over 7.5gr WSF for 1180fps for squirrels. Accurate enough at 30y for headshots with a tree for the backstop. I keep Longshot for hunting and defense loads. All my plinkers and small game ammo is loaded with WSF.

Remember the 10mm's name is the 10mm Automatic. There's nothing magnum about it. Keep it that way. :drinks:

[msp2640]

I'm a fan as well of the 10mm, owning a S&W 1076 and a newer Kimber Stainless Target II. AA #9 is what I use mostly and stick to the 175-180gr bullets. The Smith shoots great with both cast and jacketed, still working with the Kimber on a decent cast load. I don't shoot heavy loads thru either, as I can't see the need to, since neither are hunting or carry guns for me. Some of the last loads I shot thru both were 200 gr LFNs (lightly loaded) that ejected brass onto the shooting bench, as I had hoped. The cement slab our club's benches are on, tend to chew up ejected brass and 10 brass is not always cheap or easy to find. I put a older box of Fed FMJ 180s thru the Kimber and the brass was landing 15+ feet away. The only thing I've noticed, is that the Kimber seems to be a tighter chamber. I'm a fan of the lesser popular calibers anyway and don't even own a 9mm - Best of luck with your Colt - Bill

[BarryinIN]

Speaking of case ejection, one thing I noticed right away about my DE is the ejection consistency. They land in a tidy little circle. I could almost put a bucket down and catch them.
Maybe I am making a fuss over nothing and it probably doesn't signify a thing as far as the gun's quality, but it sure makes it easy to find the brass.

[harley45]

I agree with all that has been said above, I love my 10mm. I use the Lee 175 grainer over 6.0 grains bulseye as a plinking load and a 200 grain from Mountain Molds as my hunting load. Has worked well so far!

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6223/6273645224_658458274f_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41653286@N03/6273645224/)
IMG_0129 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41653286@N03/6273645224/) by White Tiger Photographic (http://www.flickr.com/people/41653286@N03/), on Flickr

[35remington]

If the Colt Delta comes with a standard radius stop, I would:

1) Toss it immediately, and replace it with a small radius stop, and

2) Go a bit lighter on the recoil spring.

The combination with both increase reliability and reduce battering of the gun. The super heavy springs recommended for the 10 often increase battering and reduce reliability. This is a better way. Clearly.

[Mohillbilly]

My LAR Grizzly eats hot 10mm like gumdrops . the Ruger " Buckeye " can push them even faster .. I also have an old war Remington with a .40 Corbon set that not too shabbie either .

[Love Life]

I'm excited I can't stand it. Of course knowing my luck it will be a jam-o-matic. I have WSF, HP-38, and Unique on hand to play around.

I have the lee 175 gr TC on the way for boolits and I have lotak hard and speed green on standby.

This will be fun!!

[gunfan]

Properly loaded, the 10mm Can (and does) exceed most expectations for the cartridge. While most of the current "factory" loads are seemingly mild at best, some factory loads (Double Tap, Buffalo Bore, et. al.) are loaded near, or to, the power levels of the initial offering from Norma FFV.

This is where the 10mm Auto Pistol Cartridge shines. Alter your pistol to accept the "full power" loads and you will be grateful that you did.

Enjoy.

Scott

[Adam10mm]

Double Tap has been proven to chronograph 200fps less than advertised velocity in all bullet weights. Over priced .40 ammo is what it is.

Love Life, 6.0gr WSF behind the 175gr TC is an excellent range load. Feeds and shoots wonderfully.

[Love Life]

A couple people have suggested changing out springs and other things. Is that really necessary or is that only if I want to feed it a steady diet of buffalo bore loads?

[Adam10mm]

A flat bottom FP stop is ideal. Too many people focus on the recoil spring. A 1911 is not a Glock. The recoil spring has less to do with controlling slide velocity than people think. The mainspring has more to do with it. In my experience, having built and shot a dozen 1911 10mms, 18-20lbs is all you need for a GM or Commander. Anything more than that and the gun is oversprung. I've seen guys try to build their own with a 24lb spring and couldn't rack the slide to chamber a round!

If you're going to run warm ammunition, say 180gr 1100-1200fps, 18 is more than enough for recoil and 23lb for mainspring. Going hotter, like 1300-1400fps, you'll want to go to a 24-25lb mainspring and a 19-20lb recoil to balance it. Increasing the mainspring means you'll have to touch up the internals to smooth the trigger pull again.

For most 10mm ammunition, with the occasional 100-200rds or so of "hot" 1300fps+ loads, an 18lb recoil spring with flat bottom FP stop is all one needs in a GM 1911 10mm. If they run a commander, 20lb with a +1lb mainspring will help, due to the lighter slide and increased velocity over the GM slide. The longer the slide, the less you need. I've built a couple 6 inch Longslide 10mms for customers and they were sprung with a 16lb spring and shoot 180gr bullets at 1500fps. No frame battering.

My gun pictured above has 60,000 rounds through it on that frame between two slide assemblies. No frame battering has occurred. I've had the gun 5 years now.

[Love Life]

Thanks for the info Freakshow10mm. The FP stop is cheap so I will get one of those. I don't plan on shooting full house loads very often. I will shoot them to test for function and gain proficiency with them, but once I get to that stage they will be used for when I am bumming around the desert. My main plinking load will be a middle of the road. More heat than the 40S&W, but not as hot as the 10mm can go. Should be good medicine fo 90% of the things I can come across.

[Alan]

I like the RCBS 180-CM, since I have the 10mm/38-40 Buckeye Ruger. The RNFP shape feeds fine in autos, and it has a properly placed crimp groove if you ever want to run your 38-40's through a lever gun.

[Rafe Covington]

I been shooting a Glock M20 and TC in 10 MM for years, one of my favorite calibers.:drinks:

Rafe

[BLTsandwedge]

I've measured quite a few .40s and 10s from a 6" 610. The load I settled on was 7.9g Power Pistol under #401638. Over many rounds, this load came in at a mean of 1213fps and a mean SD of 11.5. That leaves us with 571 ft/lbs. I stuck with this particular load because of its accuracy compared to using AA#7. The 610 shoots right next to my 625- both are my 'go-to' revolvers for confidence- on those CSS days (Can't Shoot Shlitz). Obligatory: begin with a book starting value and work up....7.9g Power Pistol is on the warm side......

[seagiant]

Hi Freakshow,
Are you using a regular extractor in your GM 10's or did you go to an AFTEC???

[Adam10mm]

Hi Freakshow,
Are you using a regular extractor in your GM 10's or did you go to an AFTEC???
Standard. I see no point in wasting money on an AFTEC extractor when the standard design works reliably. I've never had issues with extraction.

[bowfin]

Shadow,

I hope your green boolits glow in the dark! If they don't, they should!

As for 10mm ammo, I bought some old stock Norma 200 grain for my brother, who has two or three S&W and a Glock. It's pretty stout stuff, with a 200 grain bullet at 1200 fps.

[thegreatdane]

I've really enjoyed longshot for the full power loads. I've yet to chrony them (chrony broke), but all indications are they're no slouch. Using linear equations and hodgdon load data, my 200 XTPs should be scooting about 1150. 155s using AA#7 are scooting at 1400.

10mm is THE reloader's pistol cartridge.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Thanks looking at a Caspian build one day!

[MAJ H]

The .357 will have better SD than the 10mm, simply due to it being slightly smaller in diameter. Sectional density aside, I refer to them as near ballistic twins. If you like wheelguns, get a .357. If you like autos, get a 10mm. A four inch revolver is comparable to a 5 inch auto. The revoler has the chamber separate from the barrel and the 4 inch barrel is a full 4 inches. The auto with a 5 inch barrel has a chamber 1.275" long included in that 5 inch measurement, so it's an effective 5-1.275" = 3.725" barrel on the auto.

Now with that in mind, the 10mm in a 3.725" effective barrel can push a 180gr bullet to 1300fps safely. That's pretty frickin' amazing if you ask me. The 357 can do that in a 4 inch barreled revolver.

My 10mm is an aluminum frame 1911 Commander. I shoot the snot out of it. No issues with frame battering or cracking. I don't shoot weak ammo either. 180gr @ 1150fps is my plinker load (207 PF), 1250fps is my carry load, and 1300fps is my deer/bear load.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freakshow10mm/DSCN2425.jpg

Unique is a decent powder in the 10mm. I prefer WSF for lead. Think of it as a ball equivalent to Unique, ie same performance but meters much better. Low smoke and very boolit friendly. A great small game load is 6.0gr WSF behind a 175-180gr anything. The best full power powder is Longshot.

LSWCs around 175gr are great. Lee's 175gr TC mould is a great boolit and I've shot the daylights out of those. I've cast a few Lee 145gr SWCs that dropped at 152gr. Shot over 7.5gr WSF for 1180fps for squirrels. Accurate enough at 30y for headshots with a tree for the backstop. I keep Longshot for hunting and defense loads. All my plinkers and small game ammo is loaded with WSF.

Remember the 10mm's name is the 10mm Automatic. There's nothing magnum about it. Keep it that way. :drinks:

I've got that exact pistol, love the looks, Would not shoot Hornady HPs I polished the ramp and ordered a stronger spring, hope that will fix it. Love the gun hope I don't have to shelve it for a Glock! :)

[Adam10mm]

I've got that exact pistol
Damn, I thought I had the only Pro Carry 10mm. I know I was one of the first ones to do it though. [smilie=w:


Would not shoot Hornady HPs I polished the ramp and ordered a stronger spring, hope that will fix it.
Would not shoot as in not accurate or won't cycle reliably? Factory Hornady XTP ammo or handloads? If handload, what's your load? What recoil spring weight do you use? 20lb spring in a Commander with "hot .40" level loads won't cycle. Spring is too heavy or load is too light.


Love the gun hope I don't have to shelve it for a Glock! :)
I used to be a Glock fan. Mushy trigger and poor grip angle. Couldn't stand it after a while.

[thegreatdane]

.... Violent expansion when using the 150-165 grain bullets is where the 10mm Auto really shines! The lighter bullets tend to expand abruptly, causing permanent cavitation and result in profound exanguination....

Amen to that. Softball size cavitation+

[keyhole]

I like the Delta Elite. The one thing I would comment on is mine appears to have a fairly tight chamber (only about .003" room for expansion), and accumulated fouling/grunge can have an impact on feeding reliability, so I make a point to keep it clean.

Bought a new Delta Elite a few months ago and like it very much. Trigger pull quality is pretty decent. Workmanship, finish quality, etc. look really nice. I have a number of 1911's, going back to Series 70 Gold Cup, Kimbers, SIG, and Para-Ordnance.
I have been using bullets cast out of RCBS 170 gr SWC mold. This was my first RCBS mold after many Lyman, Saeco, and Lee. The RCBS casts very nice bullets immediately - well filled out, sharp bands. Bullet metal is approximately ww type, air-cooled.
Load settled on is 8.0 gr AA5. According to latest Lyman manual this is close to max. Gun shoots to point of aim at 25 yards.
Had one feed failure at about 500 rds. Gun had not been cleaned, to Glen's point. So fairly frequent cleaning may be needed when shooting cast bullets.
I give gun and RCBS bullet combination a thumbs up.

thanks

Keyhole

[gunfan]

Amen to that. Softball size cavitation+

Yep, instant "bon-of a-sitch". Just add a healthy dose of slow-burning propellant (AA #9 and the like). :wink:

Scott

[Love Life]

There is a set of what I would call "Zombie Green" grips for sale on gundbroker. Lord help me be strong, and resist buying those grips.

Don't judge me....

[Whistler]

Some time ago I found myself unable to resist buying a Glock 21 with an extra 10mm aftermarket barrel. I got it for ~515USD, which by Swedish standards is dirt cheap for any firearm.

Leads badly. Cases get destroyed almost every time. Slide locks back almost every shot. Failure to feed once or twice each mag. Deadly accurate! I can keep the groups within the palm of my hand from 110 yards from a rested position using the Lyman 401638 (176gn with WW) that I filed the bevel off of. At 25 meters it is a "five holes in one" type of gun, but I've had to do a lot of experimenting to get it to function properly.

I changed pretty much every internal part without any success at all. It wasn't until I replaced the recommended 22lb recoil spring with the stock spring and reduced my loads to ~1100fps with the 176gn TC that I stopped getting mashed cases, but I really have to keep a tight grip or it will come right back to destroying cases. Still can't have anyone standing behind me however, the case comes full force and ends up 30 feet behind me, sometimes hitting me in the forehead.

The leading is pretty weird. I size to .401" and lube with Carnauba Red. CR has worked for me in .357Mag every time, I shoot pretty hot silhouette loads with 180gn and 219gn boolits out of my 11.5" custom barreled S&W 28 with no leading at all. But the 10mm has the last half of the barrel leaded after 25 shots. I think the Lyman 401638 has a pretty decent lube groove, so running out of lube shouldn't be likely and CR is a proper lube for this kind of use.

This is my first 50 pointer ever no matter what gun I used, so I will probably never get rid of the gun. It was shot one handed at 25 meters (27y) with iron sights, a common competitive event in Sweden (we are not allowed to use handguns for anything other than competition).

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/3479/20120403215225.jpg

This particular load was 12.0gn of Norma R123 and the 176gn TC.

[subsonic]

When you swap calibers, the ejector and extractor can cause the issues you speak of. Definitely stick with a stock recoil spring in good condition. You might find success by lengthening the ejector, either by selecting a longer factory ejector from another caliber or by heating and pounding yours with a hammer to stretch it. If you haven't tried a different extractor, that would be worth it as well. There are several variations....

I had poor success with a .40 barrel in my 10mm and got similar ejection/extraction results.

The slide locking could be from your oversized slide release. Some folks like to run Glocks without a slide release at all because they engage them on accident from a high hold.

What brand is your conversion barrel? Poly rifling? Try .402 or .403"....

[Whistler]

The barrel is IGB (Impulse Gun Barrels), they are famous for making barrels that work exceptionally well with lead. I don't believe it is a size issue, the location of the leading is a typical lube issue.

The glocks use different ejectors for the .40 and 10mm. The .40 uses the 9mm-ejector. The ejector for the Glock 21 .45ACP and 20 in 10mm are the same.

[45r]

You might want to get a model 20 slide.I think that it is made stronger and the breechface and extractor is designed for the 10mm.I've read that glock is testing a new 10mmSF GEN 4 and it might be available by the end of the year.I imagine it will have the new design recoil spring.I wish they would bring out a longslide 10mm like the model 24.

[thegreatdane]

You might want to get a model 20 slide.I think that it is made stronger and the breechface and extractor is designed for the 10mm.I've read that glock is testing a new 10mmSF GEN 4 and it might be available by the end of the year.I imagine it will have the new design recoil spring.I wish they would bring out a longslide 10mm like the model 24.

OOOh! The news we've been waiting for! Consider me in line for the 4th gen G20!

[subsonic]

I was surfing the net and a wave carried me here:

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=67

[Love Life]

Thanks for the link Subsonic. I must have read this thread at least 100 times over the past couple months. The girl is finally here and shoots like a dream. The only concern I have is the little plastic thing called a guide. I have ordered a couple as spares, and also a f flat bottom firing pin stop from fusion firearms.

The gun shoots very well as is, and I am looking forward to working up the load ladder once I get back from the NCBS. I just wanted to pop in and thank everybody for their information and help.

[thegreatdane]

The 180-grain JHP screaming along at 1350 fps is going to rip someone a new anal port. I guarantee it! :bigsmyl2:

The idea of the 10mm is to make the most of the .401" bullet, regardless of the application.

Scott

I've noticed that a 155 GDHP can reach too high of velocity to remain intact. Last weekend i blew apart some 155s at a calculated (not observed) 1400 fps into wetpack.

[sqlbullet]

You guys should join us at 10mm-firearms.com (http://10mm-firearms.com/index.php)

[Jens]

how would 2400 and hard cast boolits work in the glock model 20?

[Adam10mm]

#2400 is alright. About the same burn rate as Blue Dot and #9. The 10mm is near ballistic equivalent to the .357 Mag, so you would think that #2400 would perform well, but in reality it doesn't.

There are two burn rates that are exceptional in the 10mm, 800X and HS7/W571. Trouble with both, however.

With 800X, it meters like garbage and pressure spikes like a woman with PMS. HS7/W571 isn't made for the canister trade anymore and the next best thing is Hodgdon Longshot. I've been told by the ballisticians at St Marks Powder that Longshot is a reformulated HS7/W571 to be more dense and cleaner burning.

I've tried every applicable powder for the 10mm and I stick with two of them: WSF and Longshot.

A good runner up is Blue Dot. Accurate brand powders meter well but their density leaves them using 3-5 grains more powder than others. That's a half pound more powder for the same performance!!