Lead Hardness Testers

[slabbandit]

HI Guys, I'm looking for a tester or method of testing the hardness of my castings without breaking the bank. Any good suggestions?

[DrCaveman]

The Lee hardness tester seems to work for me. About $60. It's a little fidgety to work with, and I can't compare it to anything else, but its results are consistent.

[runfiverun]

look around for the pencil method,or the ball bearing divot measuring method.
you take an ingot of yours and an ingot of lead place a ball bearing of 5-16ths between them and squeeze in a vice then measure the dent and do some math.
the old school method lee sells a kit for.
i just use a hardness tester.

[rollmyown]

I don't know what your budget is but the cabine tree is the Rolls Royce. If your descendants are casting in 500 years they'll still be using it (possibly with a new dial guage). It's built like a tank, easy to calculate hardness with and is a joy to use. About $115 from memory.

[Texantothecore]

Read through this thread:

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=75455

I bought my first full set of Staedtler drafting pencils last night at Office Depot for 12 bucks. I am now officially in the hardness testing business and I can't wait to find out just what alloy I am dealing with.

[Pb Burner]

Hello, not meaning to hijack the thread, but relavant. I'm wondering the same as the op. I am considering the Lee hardness tester and had a question.
Can the Lee tester be used to test ingots or do you have to test a boolit?
Thanks,
Burner

[JohnFM]

You can do a test on anything that will fit in the press you have the Lee tool mounted on.

[Cowboy T]

I have the Lee hardness tester, and it seems to work well and is a good value. The pocket microsope that's included with it can be a slight challenge to hold still, but it does work once you get used to it. There are a few threads in Cast Boolits that show some slick homemade jigs to hold it still.

[fecmech]

If I want to know the BHN of my bullets I cast a small ingot about 1/4" thick of the metal in the pot and do the ball bearing trick on it. DavidR welded a few ball bearings to the welding wire so they are easy to place between the pure lead ingot and the test ingot and squeeze in a drill vise.

[gbrown]

I use the Lee, as Cowboy T pointed out, the little microscope can be a challenge. Still, it has produced results for me. It seems in line with the alloys I have tested. In my world, there is no absolute, just relative stuff. Like a man with 2 watches--does he really know what time it is? Am I absolutely sure all of my tests are correct? NO! Are they close? Yes. Bhn may be off +-2 either way, but I'm not worried about that.

[AR-15 Cowboy]

I use the Lee and am presently using it in a hardness study. I'm pushing seventy and it was to hard for me to hold so my son had an old toy microscope that I mounted the Lee in and now I have no problem. I've compared my tests to a very expensive tester at my sons University and they are very close. You can't beat it for the money.

[Moonman]

Forum member "GUSSY" makes the Cabine Tree unit. The unit works great, and you can measure ingots too. The tester also has an optional setup for a "RUN-OUT" checkout of assembled ammo.

[Dan Cash]

+10X on the Cabine Tree machine. It just plain works; consistently and repeatably.

[Frank]

If I had to do it all over again, I'd skip the tester. Water drop everything. You'll see if it's too soft. It'll mark easy when you dent it.

[largom]

I have several testers including a Saeco, LBT, and a LEE. The Saeco and LBT sit in a cabinet, the LEE has a permanent position on my bench. The scope is mounted in a toy microscope base, the tester is mounted in a turret press station next to my universal decapping die. You can test ingots with the LEE if it will fit into your loading press. When I smelt alloys into ingots I always pour several into a small muffin pan about 1/2 in. thick. Remember that alloy's must age before testing. I do not test until they have aged at least 3 weeks.

Larry

[rhouser]

I use the pencil test method that is on this site. It is cheap and I am comfortable with the relative values that I get.

I guess I really envy those with the specific instruments, but, never have dropped the extra coin. I have a large set of the pencils and won't need to replace them until I have sharpened them down to nubs. My grandson also uses them to draw with when he's visiting.

Just my 2 cents. rc

[JohnFM]

I mounted the Lee pocket microscope on a spare dial indicator stand.
Let's me put it where ever I need it.
I got it to test some known hardness, or at least stated hardness samples I had.
Seems to run pretty close.
Wish they'd made their chart go softer though.
Only going to BNH 8 doesn't help much when getting towards pure lead.

[largom]

I mounted the Lee pocket microscope on a spare dial indicator stand.
Let's me put it where ever I need it.
I got it to test some known hardness, or at least stated hardness samples I had.
Seems to run pretty close.
Wish they'd made their chart go softer though.
Only going to BNH 8 doesn't help much when getting towards pure lead.


Pure lead should measure 5-6 BHN. If you have some known pure lead, test it, record the dimple reading and mark it 5-6.

Larry

[fredj338]

Another CabinTree useer here. I had the Saeco, good unit, but limited to bullets only & a bit more tedious to use, but it is accurate. The Lee looks simple, but probably not for old eyes.

[Budmen]

Had the Lee but it was tiresome to use. I mounted the scope on a jig and still was not satisfied. Got the CabinTree from Gussy It is the easiest most repeatable tester on the market. I wont say my previous LEE tested ingots were marked wrong the Lee was accurate but man I can test anything and everything in seconds with the CabinTree well worth the money if your casting more than 100 boolits a year IMHO

[Bardo]

I had the lee and didnt care for it. Then got a Cabin Tree 2 days ago and love it. The Cabin Tree is very consistant.

Bardo

[Wal']

Has anyone tried using the Lee hardness tester with a 1lb ingot sitting across the ram shell holder rather than a boolit & tested for hardness.

Should work, I have a ingot siiting on my press shellholder & cant see why it would not work ?????

The cost of shipping a Cabin Tree down here to Oz is prohibitive. :-(

[gbrown]

I use the Lee and had issues with testing a boolit. Seemed by filing the boolit flat, you removed the outer layers of hardness, especially with a water cooled one. My belief is that only the outer molecules achieve the added hardness WC brings. I use paraffin to flux and get the small tea candles at garage/estate sales. I save the aluminum cups they come in to make small ingots of various alloys I smelt. Let them age and they give a nice, flat surface to work with. I also use corn cob cornbread pans for ingot molds, and they work just as well, giving a nice, flat surface.

[Wal']

I'm just getting my head round how the Lee tester works, as long as I have a good flat surface to measure the indent, then the size/piece of ingot wont matter. :bigsmyl2:

[Defcon-One]

I have a SAECO hardness tester. It works great for bullets, which is what I test. It is not good for larger chunks unless you melt them and cast a bullet or blank.

It is compact, all one unit with no extra parts, it fits in my pocket, but it was pricey.

I'd buy another if it ever broke, but it is solid and built like a tank.

[Larry Gibson]

Has anyone tried using the Lee hardness tester with a 1lb ingot sitting across the ram shell holder rather than a boolit & tested for hardness.

Should work, I have a ingot siiting on my press shellholder & cant see why it would not work ?????

The cost of shipping a Cabin Tree down here to Oz is prohibitive. :-(

It works just fine. I have no problem testing ingots of various sizes with the Lee tester. I also shaped a small steel flat to fit into a Lee #17 shell holder. I can sit up to a .54 caliber bullet on it and test the BHN on the nose if flat or file a small flat on the nose. I tested numerous WQ'd and age hardened bullets on the nose and by filing a flat as per the instructions. I get pretty much the same BHN.

I prefer to use a minimum of 5 - 7 tests on different bullets of the same alloy/batch. You can get a varience of several (usually 1-4) reading of the same alloy on different bullets cast at the same time. Taking one BHN measurement of one bullet and saying the BHN is 16.7 is a little optomistic with any BHN tester. With a sufficient sample you should be able to narrow the BHN down to a spread of 1-3. As with FPS, psi and group size the larger the test sample the closer to the correct answer you will be. Doesn't matter what the make of tester you use.

Larry Gibson

[geargnasher]

A Lee hand press makes the tester portable if you want to take it to a salvage yard with you.

Testing ingots is a waste of time, IMO, unless the metal is VERY soft. If it contains any antimony, the slower cooling rate of the ingots will show a softer test value than boolits air-cooled from the same alloy.

Generally I test boolits right on the nose if possible, the reading isn't significantly different from a filed flat on the side unless they're water-quenched.

If you can take an average like Larry described, it's as good as realistically can be tested at home with affordable tools. Being +/- 1 bhn from actual is plenty close enough.

Gear

[Wal']

A Lee hand press makes the tester portable if you want to take it to a salvage yard with you.

Testing ingots is a waste of time, IMO, unless the metal is VERY soft. If it contains any antimony, the slower cooling rate of the ingots will show a softer test value than boolits air-cooled from the same alloy.

Generally I test boolits right on the nose if possible, the reading isn't significantly different from a filed flat on the side unless they're water-quenched.

If you can take an average like Larry described, it's as good as realistically can be tested at home with affordable tools. Being +/- 1 bhn from actual is plenty close enough.

Gear


Now thats lateral thinking at its best, taking a hand press tester with you when shopping/scrounging for lead. :bigsmyl2: like it, will have to get one, hand press that is. :cbpour:

[uccm25]

Received my Cabine Tree today and found the SML pencils at Staples for 14.43 inc. tax. Will do some comparisons this weekend. Remember our Vets...

Guy

[zomby woof]

Make your own!

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/100_2996.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/100_29981.JPG

[uccm25]

Zomby Woof- That's pretty ingenious. How do you correlate your readings to BHN?

Guy

[Sloffie]

Very nice idea! Is that just an old press? What mass does that system apply to the lead?

[zomby woof]

Harbor freight arbor press, .312 ball bearing, 22lb weight and 30 seconds. .240 is pure lead, I measured Lino at .120-130 WW are around .155 my range scrap is about .185 etc.... It's easy and works great.

[Sloffie]

Zomby Woof, could you perhaps see what values you get when you plug them into that formula in my thread? Think you will just need to convert the values to metric. ;) Just think finding the load on the test specimen will be a bit tricky, unless you can measure the gear tooth length inside the device.

I am assuming the press it this one: http://www.harborfreight.com/1-ton-arbor-press-3552.html

According to that it has a 20:1 leverage ratio. so the bullet is feeling 440lb.

[CollinLeon]

Zomby Woof, could you perhaps see what values you get when you plug them into that formula in my thread? Think you will just need to convert the values to metric. ;) Just think finding the load on the test specimen will be a bit tricky, unless you can measure the gear tooth length inside the device.

I am assuming the press it this one: http://www.harborfreight.com/1-ton-arbor-press-3552.html

According to that it has a 20:1 leverage ratio. so the bullet is feeling 440lb.

I suspect that it would only be accurate if you have it adjusted so that the lever on the arbor press is at 0 degrees relative to the ground. If it was at 30 degrees relative to the ground, you have to reduce the weight value in the equation to 0.866 (i.e. cos(30)) of whatever you hung off the lever arm.

[MaxJon]

Make your own!

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/100_2996.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/100_29981.JPG

Yippeee!! Have had it for years, never used it till NOW!!