bedding the Enfield #4

[Catch]

I have an Enfield #4 (Long Branch, 1942, 5 groove barrel) that shoots somewhat erractically most of the time. I have read some of the articles on bedding this rifle, and after taking it down and examining it, it appears to have the proper pressure at the end of the barrel, but the fit at the draws seems to be poor. I am planning to use J&B Weld as I have used it in several other rifles, with JPW as a release agent. I tried Vasaline but it did not work as well as the JPW. I plan to bed the rifle in sections, first at the draws and where it meets the metal at the rear of the action and the receiver and first 2 inches or so of the barrel, then later at the muzzle end of the fore stock.
The gun has a very nice barrel but generally shoots AOE (as my Dad use to say)
(all over everywhere) and after trying several different scope sights decided to try the bedding thing. I am hoping some of you have worked with this rifle and I would like to hear your experience and results and any ideas or suggestions you have before I dive in and possibly mess up.............Thanks for listening and any help you can offer.
I guess it is true that the one that doesn't shoot as well gets all the attention.........
It sure is fun though.........Thanks again, Catch

[303Guy]

I think J B Weld would be good. It is iron filing filled and is a little flexible once cured (I think). But before you start may I make a few suggestions? First off, loose the fore-end pressure/contact (at this point I'm ducking behind the couch!) Let me explain, if the rest of the bedding is not the best then I do think the fore-end pressure could be counter-productive. So start with the action and Knox-form bedding then move on to the fore-end if needed.

With bedding the action, the receiver and Knox-form needs to be well fitted to the wood with a flexible compound. Then the bottom strap need to apply a rearward pressure as well as a progressive pressure to the bottom of the wood so the receiver is well clamped into that well fitting bedding job.

Now here's the rub, my No.4 two-groove has only been given a rudimentary bedding and despite the fact that it has a 'rust textured' bore, shoots scary accurate.

Now, to make a pretty bedding one can use one of these plasticized clear epoxies mixed in with a healthy dose of wheat bran. Saw dust is good too but wheat bran looks good. Do the whole bedding area in one hit (the final layer anyway).

Bedding the bottom strap is tricky. Those two little bumps which actually house the trigger pin is what applies the rearward pressure. The whole thing is a spring so one needs to ensure that it pulls up flat. Applying a second layer of epoxy mix produces the required pressure because the fibre - be it wheat bran or sawdust - cannot escape completely.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/WhetBranbedding001.jpg It's pretty.

[curator]

Catch,

303guy's advise is spot on. Secveral of my No4s only needed the knox form bedded and the barrel free-floated to shoot very accurately (assuming they have original forearms) Another piece of advise I would offer is to get ALL the copper out of the bore before making any changes. I have yet to see a original Lee Enfield rifle that didn't have several year's worth of copper fouling (nicely polished) from throat to about a foot from the muzzle. Sometimes this copper wash also included some ironed on powder fouling as well. When I get a (new to me) rifle I alternate Auto brake cleaner cleanings with overnight soakings with household ammonia cleaner. (Plug the muzzle, stand on end and fill the bore to chamber) After two or three overnight soakings no more blue stuff comes out then all the copper is gone. Its amazing how much this will improve accuracy and it is totally necessary if you are to get any accuracy with cast boolits.

Check out Steve Regwell's website: www.303british.com for more tips

[smokemjoe]

I do the action in 3-4 steps, If you done it all at once I dont think you would ever get it apart, I also bed the stock to the action ring . It will make them shoot alot better. All I used JB , It will bond to the oily wood . Take your time when bedding the action in steps, It works, I done 5 of them this way. Joe

[Multigunner]

I've used JB weld but found it shrinks too much if the application is thick. I had to add several applications before it filled in properly.
Accraglass is far better, it doesn't shrink.

Detailed instructions for bedding a No.4 for military competition shooting can be found here.
http://www.euroarms.net/EFD/manuali/No4Mk1Arm.pdf

[303Guy]

If you done it all at once I dont think you would ever get it apart, ...You do have to be careful. I should retract saying 'all in one go'. You do the bedding in discrete bits until the whole seating surface is done with no gaps or overlaps - the overlaps are critical, gaps not so much - then give it a thin 'all in one go' coating then clamp it up tight. It'll come apart provided there is no excess getting into the catch areas of the action. I actually bed the sides of the action too (when I go that far). The idea is that the thickness of the final layer is to produce and even pressure over the whole surface. It's probably much easier and just as good to bed only under the ring and Knox form and at the rear behind the magazine well. Doing the whole thing in one hit is only possible with slow setting epoxies. Two hits as the second layer is still needed to produce the pressure.

Something else I have recently learned about is bore profile (not barrel profile but bore). Some target quality barrel makers choke the muzzle end of the bore. It's worth checking for 'funnel muzzle' and 'blunt' crown. It might be more critical for cast than jacketed.

I stumbled onto the wheat bran trick when I didn't have any sawdust.

So, JB Weld sticks to oily wood? That's good to know. It also 'sticks' to magnets. It's quite fun watching how it creeps up the magnet and starts to follow the magnetic field lines.

[Multigunner]

If the action gets glued to the wood JB Weld can be broken free from wood by application of heat, far less heat than would damage either wood or metal parts. Whether it can be removed from the metal parts as easily as from the wood I couldn't say.

Most expoxy based glues and bedding compounds will stick to wood so long as it isn't just sopping wet with oil.
Its much better to remove as much oil as possible first though. Extremely oil soaked wood can be cleaned up by first using heat to get the oil to migrate to the surface then wiping with paper towels. After that repeated soaking in a strong solution of TSP and water, each application followed by hours of air drying to give the TSP the chance to recrystalize and draw oil into the crystals which then migrate to the surface pushing themselves up between the wood fibers.
I usually rinse the frosting of crystals away with household Hydrogen peroxide then after the stock is completely dry I defur and buff with 0000 steel wool.


PS
The majority of beddng methods recommended for the Lee Enfields require that contact of receiver ring and barrel be only at the bottom. Its best if theres no side to side wiggle of course, but bedding the sides of the barreled action tightly on the sides is not recomended.
Some Canadian shooters eliminated side play by drilling holes in the wood on either side of the rear of the action body, and gluing in sections of dowel rod that were pushed in from either side.

It appears that the action body is best bedded for a short distance at front and rear with no contact in between.

[303Guy]

It appears that the action body is best bedded for a short distance at front and rear with no contact in between.Thanks for that. It's also a lot easier! It's also a lot easier to have no side bedding other than at the rear where it's easy either way.

I was looking at my current bedding projects and wondering about bedding middle section and was leaning away from it.

Something I've noticed with my two-groove (which I have not bedded properly) is that it seems to be extremely sensitive to fore-end hold and cheek piece pressure. I should imagine that can be fixed with the correct bedding technique? My 1902 with a No.4 barrel and a heavy fore-end and solid bedding over the whole action including sides seems to be reasonably insensitive to gun hold. Its accuracy while not stellar, was consistent at 1.25 MOA (I think it was 1.25 :roll: ). Changing powder charges didn't make any difference so I just loaded to what seemed to be max reasonable pressure.

[Multigunner]

Thanks for that. It's also a lot easier! It's also a lot easier to have no side bedding other than at the rear where it's easy either way.

I was looking at my current bedding projects and wondering about bedding middle section and was leaning away from it.

Something I've noticed with my two-groove (which I have not bedded properly) is that it seems to be extremely sensitive to fore-end hold and cheek piece pressure. I should imagine that can be fixed with the correct bedding technique? My 1902 with a No.4 barrel and a heavy fore-end and solid bedding over the whole action including sides seems to be reasonably insensitive to gun hold. Its accuracy while not stellar, was consistent at 1.25 MOA (I think it was 1.25 :roll: ). Changing powder charges didn't make any difference so I just loaded to what seemed to be max reasonable pressure.

The most consistently accurate load I've used, and I use it almost exclusively these days, is a Hornady .312 150 grain bullet over a near max charge of IMR 4320.
Its the only commercial bullet I've found that bumps up properly in a two groove Savage bore.
The old Soviet 147 gr boat tail steel core is very nearly as accurate, and gives me the same point of impact as the Hornady when I use the same powder charge.

I would expect a heavier bullet to perform better at longer ranges, but I've gotten consistent sub MOA groupings with the 150 grain Hornady out to 300 yards.

[303Guy]

I ave a few Hornady 150 spire points left. I must say my two-groove (Long Branch with what appears to be a British made barrel) shoot 180gr Prvi bullets just fine. I wonder how those 150's would do. I don't think anything will bump up to fill the .318 groove diameter on my rifle. The 150 Hornady's and 180gr Speer round noses both shot equally well in my five groove. Funny thing with my two-groove, changing powder type and charges didn't move the POI.