308 Chambers and Lee Resizing Dies?

[zardoz]

Had some general questions here, on a problem that
has been perplexing me.

First, two guns. A PTR-91, and a Savage Axis 308.

Second, some Lake City once fired brass I bought some time ago. No doubt it was military.

Short story, is that I was using a Lee 3 die set, with the full length resizing die first on the Lake City brass. Cartridges made with this die set, chambered and fired no problem in the PTR. I figure the PTR has a looser chamber.

But, when I tried to chamber the cartridges in my Savage, it took considerable force to cam the bolt in. This had me very concerned. Yes, I trimmed all the brass back to trim-to-length. Fresh factory ammo would chamber without a problem in the Savage.

So, I had a spare set of Lee RGB dies, from a 2-die set, and on a whim replaced the sizing die with one from that set. It took quite a bit of force to get that last bit of sizing done, but dummy cartridges from the Lake City lot now chamber easily in the Savage.

I noted a difference in the dies. The original die from the 3-die set is marked 308-F9, and the die from the RGB set is marked 308-C1. Both are full length resizing dies.

I appears, after marking the brass with blue dye, that the C1 die, is pushing back the shoulder a tiny bit further than the one marked F9. Is this a difference that is intentional, or is that code just a machine or serial code?

This shoulder area, is what was causing the hard chambering in the Savage, because I made another dummy with blue dye on it as well to see where the interference was.

In the meantime, I have ordered a RCBS small base sizer for 308, as I read this will push the shoulder back a bit further. One reviewer indicated that this solved his chambering problems on military once fired brass.

My main question here, is what is the difference in the Lee full length sizer dies, that would make this big a difference? Is it luck of the draw factory tolerance specs, or something else?

[Ben]

I'd place my money on the luck of the draw factory tolerance specs.

For me, it isn't uncommon to use sizer dies for the same caliber and notice changes in my headspace that require adjustments to the die.

You'll also see a difference in how your bolt closes with different shell holders made by the same company ( or different companies ) affecting head space.

Ben

[Bwana]

Those are just lot numbers. You will find that Savage rifles are set up with minimum headspace chambers. The small base sizer will not set back the shoulder any more than a normal FL die. It is intended to reduce the expanded portion of the case just in front of the case head to smaller dimensions and as such should be avoided unless absolutely necessary for proper chambering. It is sometimes recommended for semi-auto rifles.

[historicfirearms]

I'm reviving an old thread because I just had this same problem. I had previously made up a batch of about 500 LC once fired brass. I full length sized them in the Lee die, trimmed, beveled, and primed. They worked great in my FAL, but now I'm working on a new AR10 and these things won't chamber. I should have just bought the Redding or RCBS dies. Don't get me wrong, I love most Lee products but I have had my fair share of issues with them.

[r1kk1]

I worked with an anesthiologist who had some match LC 308 stuff. He broke the linkage on an older Challenger press resizing the stuff. He came over and I annealed the cases and used an old set of CH dies and a different shellholder. I can't remember which shellholder brand as I have so many of them. I used Imperial sizing die lube and noticed that the force required to size them was more than any 30-06 case I have done over the years. It must have been a chamber that a nogo gauge could be fitted in. His bolt action rifle had a match chamber. Once setup was done, it went fine. He was looking for a new press and I told him to upgrade the linkage first and if that didn't work get what he wants or try a different brand of brass.

In the past I bought a lot of military brass for a 7TCU project and if I didn't anneal them first, I would split a large number of them at the case mouth. Not a problem with commercial brass. I guess annealing the 308 stuff first allowed me to set the shoulder back easier.

Take care

r1kk1

[historicfirearms]

I just got an email back from Lee tech support. They said to send in three fired cases and the die and they would shorten it to my headspace specs for free. This is my first experience with Lee customer service, but I must say, I am impressed so far.

[44magLeo]

Most Military type rifles may be stamped 308 on the barrel but are often chambered to 7.62 NATO. These NATO chambers are a bit larger in diameter and headspace. This lets them work with ammunition made by any NATO member even if they are not as close to 308 specs. This also ensures that any of this ammo will function in the rifle without chambering problems that can lead to jams that tie up the gun and can get you killed.
As far as your dies go, just use the sizer die that gets the cases to fit your Axis and keep that brass separate from the brass for the PTR-91.
Leo